3-4 Feb

3-4 Feb (Full Version)

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moses -> 3-4 Feb (3/5/2007 4:11:26 AM)
3-4 Feb: Java: KB has shown itself and it is bearing down on Java from the east. I still have a lot of aircraft in the fight but against all those zero's it's going to be tough to do anything. Last turn 14 Martins went in alone by accident and ran up against 119 zero's. I'm going to try a couple ambushes. I'm flying very little CAP on the east side of the island. Everything is on escort with the hope that with 50-60 fighters flying escort a couple of my 30-40 torpedo bombers at Soregeba might get through. As a second possibility I'm resting up my heavy bombers and at some point in the next few days I will send them in in mass to try and fight through the CAP. The odds are heavily in KB's favor as he can bomb my airfields and may well send in bombardment forces to damage my already inferior air force. On the west side of Java I'm still flying heavy CAP and that has kept his bombers away since the one strike a week ago that hurt the BB Revenge. I have evacuated most of my surface fleet except for Revenge and one CA at Palenbang. These ships have almost repaired their flood damage and will be fleeing soon if KB is not on top of them. It's good that KB is here and not in the South Pacific. I hope to make this battle last as long as possible so that I have time to prepare in other area's. PM: My F4F's were defeated with surprising ease and I have pulled everything out to recover. He is flying 39 zero's out of Rabaul and 27 out of Lae and these were just too much for my two squadrens of F4F's. They are recovering in Austrailia and my 72 plane P39 group is readying its planes. I will wait until they are both at near full strength and then transfer them to PM in one block. With 100 planes flying I may be able to get a favorable air battle and shoot some of those Betties and Nells out of the sky. I have 2 more big fighter groups 7-10 days out and the big base force unit headed to PM will arrive in about 17 days. If I can keep the airfield open until then it will be hard to close it. I think I have a good chance as long as KB is fighting around Java.

ny59giants -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/5/2007 3:02:37 PM)
I have sent in Wirraway's to PM and convert them over to Hurricane (I don't think Hurricane's have the range to get there). That is if you have enough Hurricane's to convert. Beauforts and Bostons make a good strike force to hit shipping around the southern tip of NG. They both have a good replacement rate to use for this battle of attrition. I usually convert the 8 plane squadrons of Hudson's to Beauforts and place them on Supply Transport over their home base to get their experience up into the 60's.

moses -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/5/2007 4:51:21 PM)
The Hurricane's are already in heavy use in Java and India. I had two Aussi Buffalo groups upgrade a while back and 4 groups now in India. I've done really well at using my fighters to kill his zero's. You get 50 P-40, 60 Hurricane, 60 P-39, and 90 F4F which is 260 good fighters per month. I'm sure he has upgraded his zero production quite a bit but I don't think he can produce that many. Can he?????????----------production experts???????? In addition I produce hordes of lessor aircraft which are still useful to fly CAP over bases and keep the bombers away. Iv'e done well at using these fighters only against zero's flying at long range and so at this point my problem in Java is that I have way two many planes for my facilities. But for now the fight at PM will be F4F's and P39's vs Zero's, Betties, and Nells. 37 of the P39's are ready and about 17 F4F''s. I want that number up too about 70 and 30 before flying them all into PM in one turn. He has one 27 plane squadren doing a sweep from Lae each turn. Then in the second phase come 39 zero's and about 60 Betties and Nell's. Against 100 of my fighters how do you think I will do?? I will fight as long as I can but I don't have very much aviation support at PM so I may not be able to sustain thesen fighters for long. But then I will pull back and regroup again. I have another group of 72 P39's and another of 72 P40E closing on Austrailia. The second phase will be to use these as I transport a large (270) aviation unit to PM. Then I'm there to stay. Risks are: 1. That he sends KB to disrupt this. But KB seems occupied at Java and does not seem in a hurry. I think it will stay in that area because at this point if KB leaves then I have effective air parity in that area and my bombers will have a good time against his transports whenever they land. 2. He shifts in a bunch of fresh Betties and Nells that are currently working on Clark field and Singapore. This is possible as these aircraft could be moved around quickly. If he were to completely shut the runway then I would have no way to recover. But his current 60 bombers do not seem to be enough and he has had good weather for the last week. (bombing runs every single day.)

goodboyladdie -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/5/2007 5:10:33 PM)
I have had some success over PM by using the P-39s at 70% CAP at 22,000 ft with P-40s and F-4Fs above them at 25,000 ft, also on 70% CAP. The P-39s seem to take the heat while the other planes do the killing, but it is necessary to suck him into an attrition battle.

moses -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/5/2007 5:55:29 PM)
Hmmmm why so high?? The betties are bombing at 6,000 feet and I sure would like to kill some of these. I wonder if it would make a difference if I just flew the P39's at 10,000 and then the F4F's at 14000??

Kereguelen -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/5/2007 6:40:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: moses The Hurricane's are already in heavy use in Java and India. I had two Aussi Buffalo groups upgrade a while back and 4 groups now in India. I've done really well at using my fighters to kill his zero's. You get 50 P-40, 60 Hurricane, 60 P-39, and 90 F4F which is 260 good fighters per month. I'm sure he has upgraded his zero production quite a bit but I don't think he can produce that many. Can he?????????----------production experts???????? Simple answer: He can - absolutely no problem. You should expect a Japanese production of 300+ Zeros/month by now. But you can check this by yourself: Just position the mouse cursor about (for example) Tokyo and you'll see what is produced there (you'll not know if he halted production of a certain factory, but you'll be able to see his production cabability). quote: ORIGINAL: moses In addition I produce hordes of lessor aircraft which are still useful to fly CAP over bases and keep the bombers away. Iv'e done well at using these fighters only against zero's flying at long range and so at this point my problem in Java is that I have way two many planes for my facilities. But for now the fight at PM will be F4F's and P39's vs Zero's, Betties, and Nells. 37 of the P39's are ready and about 17 F4F''s. I want that number up too about 70 and 30 before flying them all into PM in one turn. He has one 27 plane squadren doing a sweep from Lae each turn. Then in the second phase come 39 zero's and about 60 Betties and Nell's. Against 100 of my fighters how do you think I will do?? I will fight as long as I can but I don't have very much aviation support at PM so I may not be able to sustain thesen fighters for long. But then I will pull back and regroup again. I have another group of 72 P39's and another of 72 P40E closing on Austrailia. The second phase will be to use these as I transport a large (270) aviation unit to PM. Then I'm there to stay. P-39s a best used to escort bombers flying at 6,000 feet (because they fly and fight at 9,000 feet then and thus suffer no maneuver penalty).

goodboyladdie -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/5/2007 6:44:28 PM)
Because they do not climb so well and height gives an advantage in combat. I have tried lower and always got the feeling that my losses were heavier as a result. I routinely use a high CAP and in all my games have a very good kill to loss ratio even before better fighters turn up. P-39s low down are better planes, but it easier to dive to intercept than it is to climb... In the game where I used the settings above the Zero units I was up against were useless within two weeks, whereas my units that were rotated in and out had some experienced aces and were much improved. The point is to mix your fighter force when using P-39s to get the best use out of them on the defence.

moses -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/5/2007 8:34:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie Because they do not climb so well and height gives an advantage in combat. I have tried lower and always got the feeling that my losses were heavier as a result. I routinely use a high CAP and in all my games have a very good kill to loss ratio even before better fighters turn up. P-39s low down are better planes, but it easier to dive to intercept than it is to climb... In the game where I used the settings above the Zero units I was up against were useless within two weeks, whereas my units that were rotated in and out had some experienced aces and were much improved. The point is to mix your fighter force when using P-39s to get the best use out of them on the defence. Well I guess in a couple days I'll try your method. I fairly confident that you are correct about dealing with the zero's. I'm just a little concerned that the bombers will slip by.

moses -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/5/2007 8:42:02 PM)
"You should expect a Japanese production of 300+ Zeros/month by now." ahhhhhhhhhhhhh--runs in fear. [&:][&:] Well I realize that theoreticaly you can build zero production to whatever you want. But is it practical for a player to build to 300 by early February??? I mean there are supply issues involved. You would need to adjust engine production. There are other things that need to be produced. When I've played as Japan I've never even tried to go higher then 200. But even with my restrictive production changes supply starts to get short. Maybe I'll have to play with this a bit in a test against the AI and see what can be produced. But I'm sure there are experts out there who might have thoughts as to what is possible and more importantly what is practical as Japan with regard to zero production.[:)]

castor troy -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/5/2007 10:12:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: moses "You should expect a Japanese production of 300+ Zeros/month by now." ahhhhhhhhhhhhh--runs in fear. [&:][&:] Well I realize that theoreticaly you can build zero production to whatever you want. But is it practical for a player to build to 300 by early February??? I mean there are supply issues involved. You would need to adjust engine production. There are other things that need to be produced. When I've played as Japan I've never even tried to go higher then 200. But even with my restrictive production changes supply starts to get short. Maybe I'll have to play with this a bit in a test against the AI and see what can be produced. But I'm sure there are experts out there who might have thoughts as to what is possible and more importantly what is practical as Japan with regard to zero production.[:)] There�s so much supply around that the only thing that hinders you to increase your Zeroe production to 500 within a month is the fact that each factory repairs only ONE plane production a day. I would just check the map and you will have the answer. Gamey or not, this is information the Japanese player also gets of the Allied factories if he wants to. If Jwilkerson wanted to increase it then there are many more Zeroes produced then you would think.

goodboyladdie -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/5/2007 11:14:06 PM)
But however many he produces they are only good in the hands of experienced pilots. As long as you try to kill at least 40 Naval pilots a month (including search plane and bomber pilots), by June 1942 the pilot pool is gone and the Zero bonus has expired. Once his best pilots are gone the Zero is very easily destroyed as they are very fragile and most Allied fighters have heavy armament and good durability...

Mike Solli -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/5/2007 11:24:34 PM)
June 42?� The IJNAF pilot pool is usually gone by the end of 41.� Many of the daitai & chutai start understrength.

moses -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/5/2007 11:50:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mike Solli June 42?� The IJNAF pilot pool is usually gone by the end of 41.� Many of the daitai & chutai start understrength. Well here's my kills for the first 60 days. I think the pilot pool is dry!!!! [image]local://upfiles/7036/7050B1D7705747B7B117A06574776F13.jpg[/image]

John 3rd -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/5/2007 11:53:05 PM)
Keep it up Greg! I HATE losing that many planes so early...

ny59giants -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/5/2007 11:53:46 PM)
You are going to have to rotate your 72 plane fighter groups in and out of PM to rebuild after attrition takes them down a few notches. [:-] The BIG question is, how are you going to get a large amount of supply to PM with your CV's in need of yard time?? Placing a 270 AV BF is good, but your need to get at least 20k of supply to PM is critical.[:(] Those Betty/Nell are probably set on naval attack and AF secondary. [:D]

Mike Solli -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/6/2007 12:03:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: moses quote: ORIGINAL: Mike Solli June 42?� The IJNAF pilot pool is usually gone by the end of 41.� Many of the daitai & chutai start understrength. Well here's my kills for the first 60 days. I think the pilot pool is dry!!!! [image]local://upfiles/7036/7050B1D7705747B7B117A06574776F13.jpg[/image] [X(] Ouch!

moses -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/6/2007 12:03:46 AM)
I have over 50,000 sp there (PM) already. My great need is an aviation support unit which is still two weeks out. I don't think his Betties are all that good. He has taken a lot of losses and had very little success. Plus Rabaul is still a level three airbase.

Mike Solli -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/6/2007 12:05:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: moses Plus Rabaul is still a level three airbase. After 60 days that is not good.

moses -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/6/2007 12:05:32 AM)
OK lets see if I understand this. [image]local://upfiles/7036/17D48A0FBE0B4172983697A9CF6D31F2.jpg[/image] This says for instance that he is producing 57 zeros and has 24 zero factories left to repair at Tokyo. Correct???????? Is this accurate or does FOW play a role???????

Mike Solli -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/6/2007 12:06:42 AM)
[X(] I never realized you could get that much intel (I never played the Allies).

Mike Solli -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/6/2007 12:08:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: moses OK lets see if I understand this. This says for instance that he is producing 57 zeros and has 24 zero factories left to repair at Tokyo. Correct???????? Yup, that's right. Keep in mind that he most likely has multiple A6M2 factories (with 2 of them in Tokyo).

moses -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/6/2007 12:13:21 AM)
OK then I counted them all up. I show production of 268(39) zero's!!!!! 223(153) Oscar's!!!!!!; and 125(40) Betties!!!!!!! PLUS......PLUS I counted 50 factories of various types which have factories to repair. Now there have to be supply implications of this. For example 50 factories repairing per turn is 50,000 sp/turn. We're at day 60 so this comes to 3,000,000 sp; the entire starting japanese supply pool!!!!!!!!!

moses -> 5-7 Feb (3/6/2007 12:41:49 AM)
5-7 Feb: Time marches on: Singapore will fall within a day or two and Burma is now just a mop-up operation. West of Java his cariers move back and forth never quite engaging fully with the Java defences. My last surface units have fled the area for either India of the south Pacific but hopefully he does not know that. At PM weather forced the Japanese air campaign to halt allowing me to fully repair my airfield. Thunderstorms are forcast for tommorrow so I will spend at least one more day before sending in my P39's and F4F's. China: He now seems commited in the North and so I will risk a little offensive: Near Changsa my troops ventured toward Wuhan and routed two Jap Brigades that were guarding the road. Now I will send 7 of my Corps across the river where two units sit opposite Ichang. If my units all cross at once the river assault rule should give them a quick victory. Ichang is a level 5 airbase and I'll use my SBD's to ensure a clean kill. 3 of my Ichang Corps are already moving down the trail and 6 Corps from Homan have moved south and will attack the single unit blocking the road to Kaifeng. If all goes well I will have 16 Corps in that central zone between the two rivers. What does he have there??? Perhaps no more then a division or two defending a lot of open space with no natural defences. I may not achieve all that much but if I can retreat five or six of his units and force him to fight some unfavorable battles, make him redeploy and burn supply.....well then it will be worth it. And maybe...just maybe I catch a couple of his divisions in the open and rout them. It's not impossible that he will then lose control of the situation and I will take this entire central region. [image]local://upfiles/7036/E47B91A8B2924CC882028D14D8223F24.jpg[/image]

moses -> 8-9 Feb (3/8/2007 3:43:36 AM)
8-9 Feb: Malaysia and Java: Singapore falls and his fighters range across Java at will. The battle really is over in the air. I have one last chance as my B26's wait for his carriers to veture close enough. But he just has too many fighters and there is no point in me reinforcing my squadrens. The good news is that my fleet is safely gone and I've managed to keep my losses to one CA and 5 or 6 DD's. The landings in Java are just a matter of time. Now for a demonstration of my incompetance at this game:[&:] PM: I send in my P39's and F4F's for the decisive show down. I set my P39's at 20,000 ft and my F4F's at 24,000 as instructed. I then leave my F4F's at CAP LEVEL 0%!!!!!!![&:] What an idiot. After planning this for over a week I botch the execution. Obviously it does not go well. I lose over 22 P39's for 4 zero's and 3 bombers. Worse a bunch of my F4F's get blown up on the ground. I pulled everything out and will now spend another 10 days regrouping. PI: He moves into Clark and I don't even notice for a turn!!!!! So I noticed and launched my shock attack but with a day to dig in and get a free bombardment, Japan holds with 1 to 1 odds. I will try again tommorrow and have flow in a dozen LB30's to help. Maybe I can drive them out but if not the battle is done because I will have no remaining sourse of supply. Sometimes I think I know what I'm doing but days like this make you wonder. China: Some good news is that by moving my big stack out of Changsa I have finally gotten supply to move north. Everything there is now at 100% supply greatly increasing my confidance.

ny59giants -> RE: 8-9 Feb (3/8/2007 5:33:41 AM)
What is your defensive preparations look for in India?? Now that Malaya is gone and with KB off the coast of Java, both Java and Sumatra will probably fall within a month. [sm=00000459.gif][sm=00000459.gif] Also, how is the fortification of your island chains from Hawaii to Oz shaping up??

erstad -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/8/2007 11:38:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: moses OK then I counted them all up. I show production of 268(39) zero's!!!!! 223(153) Oscar's!!!!!!; and 125(40) Betties!!!!!!! PLUS......PLUS I counted 50 factories of various types which have factories to repair. Umm.. I suspect your 50 includes a large fraction of R&D factories. Likely he's not repairing those.

Mike Solli -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/8/2007 3:16:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: moses OK then I counted them all up. I show production of 268(39) zero's!!!!! 223(153) Oscar's!!!!!!; and 125(40) Betties!!!!!!! PLUS......PLUS I counted 50 factories of various types which have factories to repair. Now there have to be supply implications of this. For example 50 factories repairing per turn is 50,000 sp/turn. We're at day 60 so this comes to 3,000,000 sp; the entire starting japanese supply pool!!!!!!!!! Ouch! [X(] That's just a wee bit excessive. [:(]

moses -> RE: 8-9 Feb (3/8/2007 4:49:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ny59giants What is your defensive preparations look for in India?? Now that Malaya is gone and with KB off the coast of Java, both Java and Sumatra will probably fall within a month. [sm=00000459.gif][sm=00000459.gif] Also, how is the fortification of your island chains from Hawaii to Oz shaping up?? India: Well I did not send anything forward except one indian BDE and a base force to Akyab. On the down side only the 1st Burma BDE was evacuated from Burma. The rest of the Burma army is taking the long road back and may be entirely cut off. I have quite a few air units in India now and the Dutch minelayers are hard at work. The battle fleet is mostly gone as the waters are a bit too restricted for me to operate their in any safety. So every city on the mainland is garrisoned and will soon have at least some mines. The big island is relatively defensless but I don't think I can afford puting units here yet. I feel pretty good about him invading here. Sure if he wants he can make things really hot for me in India. But he will have to commit KB and most of his Army. India is a good place to bleed his air force and with KB there, PM will be safe, allowing me to bleed him some more from that location. Java: I agree, Java is lost whenever he wants to send the troops to take it. The air battle is now not worth fighting anymore as while I am killing some zero's I'm also doing a good job of training his zero's. So I'm keeping a group of B26's there for one last shot at his ships but everything else is just being allowed to attrit down. I've withdrawn a couple air units to India and I've disbanded a number of groups together. I've also started to load up excess supply from Java to keep it away from Japan. My AK's have suffered some but the Betties don't have much aim anymore and waste a lot of torpedoes. I have pulled a ton of oil and resourses from this area over the last month. Pacific Island chain: Midway and Palmyra now have a full RCT. The bulk of the division for Canton Island will arrive in a couple days. All are fortified with ample supply and over a thousand mines. I have some type of artillery/CD unit at each location. Suva and Pago pago are still a little lite.

moses -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/8/2007 5:04:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erstad quote: ORIGINAL: moses OK then I counted them all up. I show production of 268(39) zero's!!!!! 223(153) Oscar's!!!!!!; and 125(40) Betties!!!!!!! PLUS......PLUS I counted 50 factories of various types which have factories to repair. Umm.. I suspect your 50 includes a large fraction of R&D factories. Likely he's not repairing those. Some are R&D I'm sure and I'll count that up next chance. But still there are a LOT of production changes going on. Many engine factories, all those plane upgrades, some shipyards and repair facilities. I'm one of those guys who is very conservative (as Japan) with production changes. But still I often run into a supply crunch about this time where there is just very little supply in the home islands. You know, you need to ship supply initially to a lot of places to support your offensives. If you're burning a million or so of supply on upgrading your production do you just flat run out at some point? What happens then? Remember this is a historical start so Jwilkerson doesn't get to storm into my positions and conquer everything by the end of January. It's 10 Feb and Java and Palenbang are still producing for the allies. And that supply has largely been used or evacuated. Plus I've had time to evacuate a lot of supply from area's that I wasn't going to defend. So a lot of those little bases which you normally take and capture a thousand sp here and there are being captured empty. The fog of war in this game is just great. [:D] I wonder......as bad as it looks for me, Is it possible that he is dealing with a supply crises? Or is that just wishful thinking?[;)]

moses -> RE: 3-4 Feb (3/8/2007 5:12:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mike Solli Ouch! [X(] That's just a wee bit excessive. [:(] Or is it brilliant???!!![:D] Jwilkerson mentioned to me at one point that he was pushing the envelope on production. Looks to me like he has burned, shredded, and then ate that envelope!! [X(] There is no envelope anymore. [:(][&:] But he's no novice and so likely he know's something I don't.

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