Request for "flavor quotes" (Full Version)

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Gil R. -> Request for "flavor quotes" (3/6/2007 6:55:33 PM)

I should have thought of this sooner, but as you guys are reading up on generals, please let me know if you find any good "flavor quotes" for the game's load screen. We only have about sixty of those, and would love to have more. By now, you have a sense of the sort of quotes I'm looking for -- usually a quote that's not too short (but not too long!) and in some way captures an aspect of combat, leadership, heroism, hardships, politics, etc. So, for example, I probably wouldn't want a quote that says how great a particular general was, but a quote on what makes a good general might be acceptable.

If you don't feel like doing a lot of typing only to see me reject your quote you might want to post or send me just a brief summary saying what sort of a quote it is.

Thanks!



jkBluesman -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/6/2007 7:04:20 PM)

"I cannot do many things that I could do with a trained army. The soldiers know their duty better than the general officers do, and they have fought magnificently. You'll have to do what I do: when a man makes a mistake, I call him to my tent, talk to him, and use the authority of my position to make him do the right thing the next time."
Robert E. Lee to A.P. Hill in May 1864



Gil R. -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/6/2007 7:07:23 PM)

That's pretty good. But do you know if that was spoken in person, or in a letter? I always give information about the origins of quotes -- what book or speech they're from, or if they're from a letter or diary, etc. etc.



jkBluesman -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/6/2007 7:18:41 PM)

Sorry, the footnote to this quote only says that it was Lee's comment to A.P. Hill, which suggests that they spoke in person.



Gil R. -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/6/2007 7:26:03 PM)

Okay, that makes sense.

By the way, any quote used has to be verified. When I was putting together the file pre-release I found that a lot of quotes that are attributed to Civil War leaders (and not just Lincoln) cannot be verified, and some are quite suspect. So any quote that is in some way doubtful doesn't make it in. (The one exception is that quote from Patton about growing up in a house with pictures of Lee and Jackson and thinking they're God the Father and God the Son, since that's just too good not to use, and I did write that it's an attributed quote rather than a documented one.)



jkBluesman -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/8/2007 8:47:42 PM)

"The time had come when it was imperative that the skill of generals and the strategy and tactics of war should take the place of muscle against muscle. Our purpose should have been to impair the morale of the Federal army and shake Northern confidence in the Federal leaders."
James Longstreet on the Invasion of Pennsylvania in Battles and the Leaders of the Civil War, reprint of the "War Series" in The Century, the quote is from the article "Lee's Invasion of Pennsylvania", first published in February 1887.



Gil R. -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/8/2007 8:55:23 PM)

That looks like a good quote for me to use, but I get the sense that a word is missing somewhere. It doesn't read right.



Mike13z50 -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/8/2007 11:01:43 PM)

Confederate raider John Mosby wrote of an encounter he and George Pickett had with General Lee in Richmond after the war. Upon leaving Lee's presence, Pickett spoke bitterly of Lee to Mosby saying, "That old man had my division massacred at Gettysburg." Mosby replied, "Well, it made you immortal."



Mike13z50 -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/8/2007 11:30:11 PM)

In a moving tribute to friendship, at party held in honor as he left his post with the Union Army to go join the rebellion, Lewis Armistead vowed that if he ever led his men in combat against his dear friend Winfield Hancock, that "God should strike me dead." At Gettysburg, on July 3, 1863 Armistead led his brigade against Hancock's corps to the "High Tide of the Confederacy." Wounded three times as he led his men across the Union breastworks, Armistead fell mortally wounded among the guns of Cushing's Battery.



Mike13z50 -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/8/2007 11:50:36 PM)

"I do not question the personal courage of General [Albert Sidney] Johnston, or his ability. But he did not win the distinction predicted for him by many of his friends. He did prove that as a general he was over-estimated." U.S. Grant, Memoirs(p.214)



Gil R. -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/9/2007 2:11:04 AM)

I like these last three, but they all strike me as more appropriate to bios -- where you've already put the ones for Pickett and Armistead -- than the opening screen. Each one is too specific, whereas the opening screen quotes, even about specific people or events, tend to be more widely applicable.



christof139 -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/9/2007 3:08:43 AM)

'War is hell.' WT Sherman, and no doubt many others before and after him, if you don't already have this. Civil War Gens. 2 had Sherman riding in fron of burning buildings in Atlanta. Gets the point across.

Chris



jkBluesman -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/9/2007 11:40:08 AM)

"Gnl. Gibbon rode down the lines, cool and calm, and in an impassioned voice he said to the men: 'Do not hurry, men, and fire too fast - let them come up close before you fire, and then aim low, and steadily.'"
Lt. Frank A. Haskell in Haskell of Gettysburg: His Life and Civil War Papers on Gen. John Gibbon's preparation for "Pickett's Charge".



jkBluesman -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/10/2007 6:17:20 PM)

"It would nearly end the rebellion if we could actually bag this army, but on the other hand, a severe repulse of us would give them all the prestige at home and abroad which they lost at Gettysburg."

US-Colonel Charles S. Wainwright in his diary during the pursuit of the Army of Northern Virginia on July 11, 1863.



Drex -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/10/2007 8:07:01 PM)

"When congratulated upon his success (of his daring ride around the Union forces around Mechanicsville), General Stuart replied,with a lurking twinkle in his eye, that he had left a general behind him. Asked as to the identity of the unfortunate person, he said, with his joyful laugh, 'General Consternation.'" (from Longstreet's "From Manassas to Appomattox")



shenandoah -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/11/2007 8:00:03 PM)

I am working on another biography but found a quote by Major Gen. Van Dorn, CSA during the battle of 2nd Corinth Oct 3 (first day), 1862 battle report:

Van Dorn in his report says: "One hour more of daylight and victory would have soothed our grief for the loss of the gallant dead who sleep on that lost but not dishonored field."



Gil R. -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/13/2007 7:19:03 AM)

Thanks for the suggestions. I see at least one or two that I can use.

While reading up on Pickett's Charge I came across this quote, which I had seen elsewhere but forgotten about. The full quote is way too long to fit in the text box, but the boldfaced part will.

For every Southern boy fourteen years old, not once but whenever he wants it, there is the instant when it's still not yet two o'clock on that July afternoon in 1863, the brigades are in position behind the rail fence, the guns are laid and ready in the woods and the furled flags are already loosened to break out and Pickett himself with his long oiled ringlets and his hat in one hand probably and his sword in the other looking up the hill waiting for Longstreet to give the word and it's all in the balance, it hasn't happened yet, it hasn't even begun yet, it not only hasn't begun yet but there is still time for it not to begin against that position and those circumstances which made more men than Garnett and Kemper and Armistead and Wilcox look grave yet it's going to begin, we all know that, we have come too far with too much at stake and that moment doesn't need even a fourteen-year-old boy to think This time. Maybe this time with all this much to lose than all this much to gain: Pennsylvania, Maryland, the world, the golden dome of Washington itself to crown with desperate and unbelievable victory the desperate gamble, the cast made two years ago. – William Faulkner, Intruder in the Dust



shenandoah -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/14/2007 10:41:15 PM)

quotes related to the Battle of Franklin:
When we got to the turnpike near Spring Hill, lo! and behold; wonder of wonders! the whole Yankee army had passed during the night. The bird had flown.
- Confederate Private Sam Watkins, 1st Tennessee Infantry
I have never seen more intense rage and profound disgust than was expressed by the weary, foot-sore, battle-torn Confederate soldiers when they discovered that their officers had allowed their prey to escape.
- Mississippian Rhett Thomas



Gil R. -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/14/2007 11:49:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: shenandoah

quotes related to the Battle of Franklin:
When we got to the turnpike near Spring Hill, lo! and behold; wonder of wonders! the whole Yankee army had passed during the night. The bird had flown.
- Confederate Private Sam Watkins, 1st Tennessee Infantry
I have never seen more intense rage and profound disgust than was expressed by the weary, foot-sore, battle-torn Confederate soldiers when they discovered that their officers had allowed their prey to escape.
- Mississippian Rhett Thomas


Both are good, but I like the second quote more. Is there more to it? Also, do you have more info on Thomas, such as regiment and/or his rank?

In general, the ideal quote would be a bit longer. The idea is not short quotes so much as longer, more flavorful ones. The second one speaks to the more than occasional incompetence of officers and the effects on morale that their failures had, so it is applicable to the whole war instead of just one battle -- that's also an important criterion for me.



Battleline -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/14/2007 11:56:05 PM)

Just found my copy of "Brink of Destruction, A Quotable History of the Civil War" a 240-page book.
Here are a few nuggets:

"No, you dare not make war on cotton. No power on earth dares to make war upon it. Cotton is King!"
South Carolina Sen. John Hammond, 1858

"The leading northern politicians . . . do not believe that there is either courage or strength enough in the south to resist these efforts. . . . Never has there been such an opportunity for secession."
Edmund Ruffin, Dec. 31, 1859

"War means fighting, and fighting means killing."
Confederate Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest

"We will fight you to the death. Better to die a thousand deaths than to submit to live under you."
Confederate Gen. John Bell Hood

"I hope God is on our side, but I've got to have Kentucky."
U.S. President Abraham Lincoln, April 1861

"Mind what I tell you: You fellows will catch the devil before you get through with this business."
Federal Admiral David Farragut to seceeding Southerners

"The central idea of secession is the essence of anarchy."
U.S. President Abraham Lincoln.

"There is the enemy, and I mean to attack him."
Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee at Gettysburg, July 3, 1863

"If this valley (the Shenandoah) is lost, Virginia is lost."
Confederate Gen. Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson



Alex Gilbert -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/15/2007 1:50:56 AM)

Only a small part of this is a quote, but it is a wonderful description of a poignant moment:

During the afternoon at Antietam (shortly after Burnside forced his way across the bridge):

Soon, from the Confederate left, there crept the shattered wreck of a battery-- two disabled guns and one piece that seemed still servicable.  A handful of begrimed and staggering cannoneers followed the exhausted horses.  The captain of the battery, with a few of his men, came up to Lee for instructions.  The officer in command proved to be Captian W.T. Poague, in whose battery Bob Lee was serving.  The boy himself was among the survivors.  Lee listened to Poague and then ordered him to take the remaining gun and the best horses to Jackson's front, to share in the offensive that "Stonewall" was preparing.
"General," said Robert, as Poague turned to go, "are you going to send us in again?"
 "Yes, my son," he answered, "you all must do what you can to help drive these people back."

Quoted in D.S. Freeman, R.E. Lee, vol II p. 397.



jkBluesman -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/15/2007 1:10:40 PM)

"When Pope got into his fortified lines Gen. Lee turned his troops toward Leesburg. His army had aquired that magnificent morale which made them equal to twice their numbers, & which they never lost even to the surrender at Appomattox."
Edward Porter Alexander in Fighting for the Confederacy



shenandoah -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/16/2007 2:51:09 AM)

I have never seen more intense rage and profound disgust than was expressed by the weary, foot-sore, battle-torn Confederate soldiers when they discovered that their officers had allowed their prey to escape.
- Mississippian Rhett Thomas
 
I got this quote from a website of quotes from the battle of Franklin.  battleoffranklin.wordpress.com/     I looked around and could only find a Major Thomas Rhett who was under Gen Loring who commanded Mississippians. 



jkBluesman -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/23/2007 7:04:30 PM)

"A retreat is said to be impossible without disaster, so that this requires careful management and safety consists in keeping the exact moment concealed."
Richard S. Ewell in a letter to his fiancee on the eve of the evacuation of the Manassas line in March 1862.



shenandoah -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (3/23/2007 10:58:18 PM)

Brig Gen Colston said about his camp upon hearing the death of his friend and commander, Gen Stonewall Jackson “the sounds of merriment died away as if the Angel of Death himself had flapped his muffled wings over the troops.”  
I don't think Colston wrote an autobiography about his life but did write papers on his life that are part of the Southern Historical Collection at the University of North Carolina.



jkBluesman -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (4/2/2007 7:13:46 PM)

"This was no ordinary war and the brave and gallant Federal officers were the very kind that must be killed. Shoot the brave officers and the cowards will run away and take the men with them."
Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson in aconversation with Richard S. Ewell after the battle of Port Republic where Ewell had ordered his men to stop firering on a brave Union officer.



Gil R. -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (4/4/2007 2:40:05 AM)

I like that one. Thanks.



jkBluesman -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (5/7/2007 4:59:04 PM)

"Now a larger army manouvers a smaller out of position by sending a part of its superior force to threaten its opponent's rear. The latter can only live for a few days if its supply trains are cut off; therefor it must fall back when its rear is seriously threatended. But in such manouvering the larger army is necessarily divided into two parts, & a skillful antagonist may find an opportunity to concentrate his whole force upon one of them & destroy it."
Edward Porter Alexander in his personal recollections "Fighting for the Confederacy".



Gil R. -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (5/8/2007 12:54:06 AM)

Thanks. I like that one, and just put it in the file.



jkBluesman -> RE: Request for "flavor quotes" (5/10/2007 5:20:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jkBluesman

"I cannot do many things that I could do with a trained army. The soldiers know their duty better than the general officers do, and they have fought magnificently. You'll have to do what I do: when a man makes a mistake, I call him to my tent, talk to him, and use the authority of my position to make him do the right thing the next time."
Robert E. Lee to A.P. Hill in May 1864


I finally found the source for the quote during my research on Hill. His chief-of-staff Colonel Palmer told Douglas S. Freeman about Lee's and Hill's conversation in 1920. According to Palmer it had taken place at Spotsylvania after Gen. Wright had messed up an assault.



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