RE: Europe map? (Full Version)

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BallyJ -> RE: Europe map? (10/1/2009 10:52:50 AM)

With regard to Lenigrad.
I was looking at the European map in the links to all map screen shots.
Probably am old one.
Glad to hear I will be able to turn of some of the chrome if I want to.
Thanks for the reply.
I know you must be busy.
Keep up the good work. I am really looking forward to the game .
Best regards.
John



brian brian -> RE: Europe map? (10/2/2009 5:07:04 PM)

could we get a zoom 6 and zoom 4 series for Asia?



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Europe map? (10/2/2009 6:31:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

could we get a zoom 6 and zoom 4 series for Asia?

It takes me several hours to generate these. So don't hold your breath waiting for them; other things have higher priority.

I did a zoom 6 of Europe: from Iceland to Stalingrad (but not Baku) and down to the Red Sea (e.g., Medina). I printed that out and mounted it on a 22" x 30" poster board which left ~8" blank at the bottom. I will probably continue with zoom 6 eastwards across to Japan, maybe Hawaii. I have a 4' by 6' white board that I have been partially/occasionally using for tracking MWIF tasks. If I devote it entirely to the map I should be able to get from North Point, Norway down to Cape Town South Africa displayed. I am not sure how far east that will go though.

I am thinking of including the TIF files I generated for this as part of the released product. They are very large, but disk space is cheap. They would take time to download though.

Or, I might come up with something better than taping dozens of 8.5" by 11" sheets of paper together. When I get a chance, I'll see what the local printing houses can do with larger size paper. That will let me know if it is feasible to print some at a large enough size to use with the WIF FE cardboard counters (stop drooling![:D]).



brian brian -> RE: Europe map? (10/2/2009 6:59:13 PM)

no worries, no rush. The first WiF Companion CD that came out had a nice set of the Europe and Asia maps that each fit on an 8.5x11 piece of paper and those were really handy for daydreaming about your next strategy.



Orm -> RE: Europe map? (10/2/2009 9:59:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BallyJ

With regard to Lenigrad.
I was looking at the European map in the links to all map screen shots.
Probably am old one.
Glad to hear I will be able to turn of some of the chrome if I want to.
Thanks for the reply.
I know you must be busy.
Keep up the good work. I am really looking forward to the game .
Best regards.
John


Here is a picture over Leningrad area at zoom level 7. Unfortunately it loses a bit of its greatness when converted to jpeg.

[image]local://upfiles/29130/E3A98288BC364D24907FE14048021E32.jpg[/image]



brian brian -> RE: Europe map? (10/2/2009 10:12:41 PM)

the Neva seems to get short shrift there but I think the map is already done



morgil -> RE: Europe map? (10/2/2009 10:48:45 PM)

North Point, Norway, is called Nordkapp, that should translate to North Cape.
That is, if you by North Point is referring to the northernmost point on the Norwegian mainland.[:)]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Europe map? (10/2/2009 10:54:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: morgil

North Point, Norway, is called Nordkapp, that should translate to North Cape.
That is, if you by North Point is referring to the northernmost point on the Norwegian mainland.[:)]

Yeah, North Cape is what is written on the map - I had to stand up to read it. Barrows Point is the northern-most point in Alaska (I think[&:]).



Froonp -> RE: Europe map? (10/3/2009 10:37:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

the Neva seems to get short shrift there but I think the map is already done

The Neva is the river flowing south of Leningrad, from Lake Ladoga to the Baltic Sea ?
I'm adding its name on the map.



Froonp -> RE: Europe map? (10/3/2009 11:45:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: morgil

North Point, Norway, is called Nordkapp, that should translate to North Cape.
That is, if you by North Point is referring to the northernmost point on the Norwegian mainland.[:)]

Yeah, North Cape is what is written on the map - I had to stand up to read it. Barrows Point is the northern-most point in Alaska (I think[&:]).


Point Barrow is the northernmost point of the United States :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Barrow

North Cape is the northernmost point of Europe :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Cape,_Norway



Froonp -> RE: Europe map? (10/3/2009 11:47:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
I did a zoom 6 of Europe: from Iceland to Stalingrad (but not Baku) and down to the Red Sea (e.g., Medina).

Any chance you upload it to the Playtesters FTP ?

quote:

I am thinking of including the TIF files I generated for this as part of the released product. They are very large, but disk space is cheap. They would take time to download though.

Maybe make them available in a JPG format ? Oh, zipped TIF is about the same size as a JPG format anyway, so maybe this is not a good idea.



brian brian -> RE: Europe map? (10/3/2009 4:29:44 PM)

thanks Froonp. The Neva is a bit more well known than some of the other nearby rivers such as the Svir or Velikaya, since St Petersburg was a center of Russian culture and Russian writers would name drop the Neva a lot.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Europe map? (10/3/2009 5:14:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
I did a zoom 6 of Europe: from Iceland to Stalingrad (but not Baku) and down to the Red Sea (e.g., Medina).

Any chance you upload it to the Playtesters FTP ?

quote:

I am thinking of including the TIF files I generated for this as part of the released product. They are very large, but disk space is cheap. They would take time to download though.

Maybe make them available in a JPG format ? Oh, zipped TIF is about the same size as a JPG format anyway, so maybe this is not a good idea.

Sure. I forgot to do that.



larssto -> RE: Europe map? (10/5/2009 11:34:32 AM)

Ref Orm's posted picture of Leningrad.

The railline from the Baltic Sea through Pskov and further East is very straight. Would it be possible to give it a little more natural contour, like the other raillines?



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Europe map? (10/5/2009 6:19:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: larssto

Ref Orm's posted picture of Leningrad.

The railline from the Baltic Sea through Pskov and further East is very straight. Would it be possible to give it a little more natural contour, like the other raillines?

Not really. Although moving the city icon for Pskov off of dead center within its hex would force the rail lines to deviate slightly to 'enter' the city.

All the rail lines are drawn by a routine that takes into consideration the presence of lake and all-sea hexsides and rail line branches within the hex. If there is a city icon, then the rail line runs into the city icon, if no city but a port (e.g., Viipuri in post #425) then the rail line runs into the port icon. If neither city nor port but a resource icon is present, then the rail line runs into the resource icon. In all those cases the icons overlay the rail lines to give a clean image.

You can see how the logic handles all-sea hexsides in the rail lines from Helsinki to Leningrad to Tallinn. The all-lake hexsides affect the rail lines around Lake Ladoga. The program establishes a 'center' point for the rail lines in each hex as well as the center point in each adjacent hex. If there is no icon, then the center point is chosen as far away from the 'wet' hexside as possible. It then determines where in the hexside between adjacent hexes the rail line should cross the hexside (measured in 8ths of the width of the hexside). In some instances, the 'center' point is dictated by the crossing points for the 6 hexsides (e.g., in the hex 2 hexes east of Pskov).

All this logic is scaled so the same routine performs these calculations for all 8 zoom levels.

By the way, whenever possible, the rail road companies constructed their rail lines in an absolutely straight line, just like any other road. The rail lines were manmade, not natural occurences like the rivers and coast lines. Which means I feel the straight lines are 'accurate'.



composer99 -> RE: Europe map? (4/28/2010 6:09:21 PM)

Bump for Sealion AI discussions.



Centuur -> RE: Europe map? (6/15/2011 8:16:22 PM)

What a heated discussion about the German - Belgium - Netherlands - Luxemburg border! I didn't see it untill today.
Couple of things here. The Dutch had all bridges on the Maas River blown up in Maastricht on the 10th. of may. There are papers in The Hague suggesting that the Germans did ask end of oktober 1939 if the Dutch would be so nice to see the other way, while some division would ride to Maastricht and further into Belgum. The Dutch government refused politely, but didn't say that to the Belgians, because of the somewhat cold relations between the low countries before a certain plan crash involving German officers occured (Belgians and Dutch weren't exactly friends between the wars, due to the Kaiser getting refuge in the Netherlands after WW I and the ongoing territorital demands of the Belgians regarding the area south of the Westerschelde. End of the 1920's there was even a small mobilisation of the Dutch army).
Now, if you are looking at playability, it is nice for the German player that he can choose for invading the Netherlands or not. Personally I think this choice isn't penalised enough if the Germans leave the Netherlands to neutrality.

Looking to the maps and the hexes involved, the hex west of Düsseldorf should really stay German, since there is a very nice chunk of clear land between the Dutch Border and Düsseldorf. Also, the Netherlands would become to big, speaking in the east-west line. North-south however, this is an entirely differerent story...
Purely from an geographical point of view, Belgium should be about two hexes less (that is an awful lot) in size. The shortest distance between the Dutch and the French border is nowhere more than 175 km.'s (i.e.: two hexes max…). The distanct from Eemshaven (the most northeastern port of the Netherlands) to Eisden (the southern Dutch border town near Liège) is  about 350 km’s (more than three hexes…). Therefore: position of the city of Liege should be accross the hexside to the south. The hex east of Antwerp and the hex formerly occupied with Liege should than pass to the Netherlands (consistent with the large Dutch province of Brabant, south of the rivers…). Off course, this means that the Belgium Army gets a better position to fight, if the Netherlands wouldn't be attacked by the Germans.
This effects play a lot. Personally I think that Harry came to the conclusion (as did a lot of developers of wargames regarding the may 1940 war) that it isn't that easy to go around the Belgians and the French if the historical weaknesses of the "commandproblems" and the "non coöperation" between the Belgians - Dutch - CW and French with existed in 1940 were not taken into account. Historically the French didn't want to defend at the Dyle, but at the Scheldt river... The Belgians however, were of an different opinion... The Belgians were even wary of a French invasion in those days...To reflect this, they blew up Belgium and took a chunk of the Netherlands away... Not a nice solution in my opinion.



Moggul -> RE: Europe map? (4/3/2012 8:36:51 AM)

Hello.

It is probably too late to make changes (or not?) to the European map but there is a typo in Spain.

The mountains north of Madrid are labeled as "Sierra de Guaderrama" but the real name is "Sierra de Guadarrama". I am linking the wikipedia entry so you can check:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierra_de_Guadarrama

In any case, thanks for your hard work and I hope will be able to buy the game soon [&o]
[&o][&o]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Europe map? (4/3/2012 5:46:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moggul

Hello.

It is probably too late to make changes (or not?) to the European map but there is a typo in Spain.

The mountains north of Madrid are labeled as "Sierra de Guaderrama" but the real name is "Sierra de Guadarrama". I am linking the wikipedia entry so you can check:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierra_de_Guadarrama

In any case, thanks for your hard work and I hope will be able to buy the game soon [&o]
[&o][&o]

Thank you.

That was an easy change to make - done.

EDIT: Oh, and Welcome to the forum![:)]



demirole -> RE: Europe map? (4/25/2012 11:14:13 PM)

Hi,

I know that this thread is quite old and that probably a lot of things have been said about the maps already. Still, looking through the thread I couldn't help myself and therefore decided to change from a forum lurker to a (most likely only a one time) contributor...

First I have a question: How did you choose which name to use for a place or city? Looking at the Turkey map, most cities carry their Turkish name (Mersin, Adana, Istanbul) but then there is Smyrna (= Izmir), Panderma (= Bandirma), Scutari (= Üsküdar), Antioch (= Antakya), and Alexandretta (= Iskenderun). The same can be seen in Germany (Munich, for example)

Second, I wanted to make two remarks: Lyons is not the valid spelling, I think, it should be Lyon. And while Berne is the valid French spelling of Bern, it is not used in German nor English (as far as I know)

Last, I just wanted to point out that Lake Geneva is larger than Lake Iznik, and due to its stretched shape, should be large enough to take up one hex side. There are probably a lot of good arguments to leave it out, ranging from "too crowded on the map" to "who cares?", but I couldn't resist of waving a flag for the lovely lake I lived at for four years.

Before I go back to lurking: I think you are doing a terrific job, Steve! Hope you are feeling better and best of health for the future!

/Levent





Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Europe map? (4/26/2012 12:01:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: demirole

Hi,

I know that this thread is quite old and that probably a lot of things have been said about the maps already. Still, looking through the thread I couldn't help myself and therefore decided to change from a forum lurker to a (most likely only a one time) contributor...

First I have a question: How did you choose which name to use for a place or city? Looking at the Turkey map, most cities carry their Turkish name (Mersin, Adana, Istanbul) but then there is Smyrna (= Izmir), Panderma (= Bandirma), Scutari (= Üsküdar), Antioch (= Antakya), and Alexandretta (= Iskenderun). The same can be seen in Germany (Munich, for example)

Second, I wanted to make two remarks: Lyons is not the valid spelling, I think, it should be Lyon. And while Berne is the valid French spelling of Bern, it is not used in German nor English (as far as I know)

Last, I just wanted to point out that Lake Geneva is larger than Lake Iznik, and due to its stretched shape, should be large enough to take up one hex side. There are probably a lot of good arguments to leave it out, ranging from "too crowded on the map" to "who cares?", but I couldn't resist of waving a flag for the lovely lake I lived at for four years.

Before I go back to lurking: I think you are doing a terrific job, Steve! Hope you are feeling better and best of health for the future!

/Levent




Welcome to the forum.[:)] My health is improved and my eyesight is getting better in my damaged eye, albeit only at a rate comparable to adding two or three grains of sand to beach per day.

Patrice has made almost all the decisions about map names. For the European map we have followed Australian Design Group's names for the most part. That applies to the terrain as well. We did make some corrections to southern Scandinavia and moved the USSR/Rumanian border so Cernauti is in Bessarabia.

EDIT: By the way, my in-laws lived in Geneva for many years, later they lived in Nyon, then in Bule. My father-in-law now lives in Lutry.



Roberkhan -> RE: Europe map? (12/28/2012 6:42:51 PM)

Hi, guys! Another lurker pops up!

It's good to read that things are going on, even if not as fast as desired. It's even better to know that your health is improving, Shannon. Thanks for all the work, seriously. You have some sure sells by us in Spain :)

If it is not too late or too annoying, I would like to add something to the names debate. IMHO, it would be nice and coherent to have all names written either in English or in their native languages, but not a mix of both. For example, in Spain we have Cádiz, Málaga and Almería in Spanish -even with their tittles-, but then there are Seville (Sevilla), Saragossa (Zaragoza), Majorca (Mallorca) and Minorca (Mallorca) in English.
Rivers would remain the same, except for Tagus, which translates to Tajo and the beautiful Duero -the most northern one- which just got no name.
Finally, Cantabrian Mountains would be Cordillera Cantábrica. Just for the laughs of hearing non-Spanish people trying to pronounce it, you should definitely change this one. [:D]

But, of course, if you do this in Spain, you would have to go through the whole planet to not disappoint anyone... :D

Anyway, hope it helps and thanks again for the mess you're in! We bear with you!



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Europe map? (12/28/2012 6:47:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Roberkhan

Hi, guys! Another lurker pops up!

It's good to read that things are going on, even if not as fast as desired. It's even better to know that your health is improving, Shannon. Thanks for all the work, seriously. You have some sure sells by us in Spain :)

If it is not too late or too annoying, I would like to add something to the names debate. IMHO, it would be nice and coherent to have all names written either in English or in their native languages, but not a mix of both. For example, in Spain we have Cádiz, Málaga and Almería in Spanish -even with their tittles-, but then there are Seville (Sevilla), Saragossa (Zaragoza), Majorca (Mallorca) and Minorca (Mallorca) in English.
Rivers would remain the same, except for Tagus, which translates to Tajo and the beautiful Duero -the most northern one- which just got no name.
Finally, Cantabrian Mountains would be Cordillera Cantábrica. Just for the laughs of hearing non-Spanish people trying to pronounce it, you should definitely change this one. [:D]

But, of course, if you do this in Spain, you would have to go through the whole planet to not disappoint anyone... :D

Anyway, hope it helps and thanks again for the mess you're in! We bear with you!

Welcome to the forum![:)]

I have let Patrice make all the decisions about the names on the map, with only the slightest of input from me. He drops by every so often, and I am sure he will post a reply in this thread someday soon.



Roberkhan -> RE: Europe map? (12/28/2012 7:13:19 PM)

That was fast, thanks!

Answering is not mandatory, only if he feels this issue brings something to the game :)



Froonp -> RE: Europe map? (2/22/2013 11:14:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roberkhan

Hi, guys! Another lurker pops up!

It's good to read that things are going on, even if not as fast as desired. It's even better to know that your health is improving, Shannon. Thanks for all the work, seriously. You have some sure sells by us in Spain :)

If it is not too late or too annoying, I would like to add something to the names debate. IMHO, it would be nice and coherent to have all names written either in English or in their native languages, but not a mix of both. For example, in Spain we have Cádiz, Málaga and Almería in Spanish -even with their tittles-, but then there are Seville (Sevilla), Saragossa (Zaragoza), Majorca (Mallorca) and Minorca (Mallorca) in English.
Rivers would remain the same, except for Tagus, which translates to Tajo and the beautiful Duero -the most northern one- which just got no name.
Finally, Cantabrian Mountains would be Cordillera Cantábrica. Just for the laughs of hearing non-Spanish people trying to pronounce it, you should definitely change this one. [:D]

But, of course, if you do this in Spain, you would have to go through the whole planet to not disappoint anyone... :D

Anyway, hope it helps and thanks again for the mess you're in! We bear with you!

I agree it would be nicer and more coherent to have all names written either in English or in their native languages, but not a mix of both, but for Europe we mostly took the WiF FE maps names, without changing them.
Lyons was changed, as I though it was a better valid name in English, but maybe I was wrong and it should be written back to Lyon ? If so, the associated MIL unit should be renamed too.

(not so fast reply, sorry [:D] )



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Europe map? (2/22/2013 6:45:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roberkhan

Hi, guys! Another lurker pops up!

It's good to read that things are going on, even if not as fast as desired. It's even better to know that your health is improving, Shannon. Thanks for all the work, seriously. You have some sure sells by us in Spain :)

If it is not too late or too annoying, I would like to add something to the names debate. IMHO, it would be nice and coherent to have all names written either in English or in their native languages, but not a mix of both. For example, in Spain we have Cádiz, Málaga and Almería in Spanish -even with their tittles-, but then there are Seville (Sevilla), Saragossa (Zaragoza), Majorca (Mallorca) and Minorca (Mallorca) in English.
Rivers would remain the same, except for Tagus, which translates to Tajo and the beautiful Duero -the most northern one- which just got no name.
Finally, Cantabrian Mountains would be Cordillera Cantábrica. Just for the laughs of hearing non-Spanish people trying to pronounce it, you should definitely change this one. [:D]

But, of course, if you do this in Spain, you would have to go through the whole planet to not disappoint anyone... :D

Anyway, hope it helps and thanks again for the mess you're in! We bear with you!

I agree it would be nicer and more coherent to have all names written either in English or in their native languages, but not a mix of both, but for Europe we mostly took the WiF FE maps names, without changing them.
Lyons was changed, as I though it was a better valid name in English, but maybe I was wrong and it should be written back to Lyon ? If so, the associated MIL unit should be renamed too.

(not so fast reply, sorry [:D] )

Let's leave Lyons as is. As I recall, changing it wasn't easy (it messed up saved games).



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Europe map? (4/25/2013 6:50:36 PM)

I've been working on Supply a lot the past week. One of the things I have added is that a unit's source of supply is shown in the Unit Data panel of the Main Form. As you pass the cursor over the units, the Unit Data panel refreshes with various information on the unit beneath the cursor.

Here is a composite of several screenshots. At the top are 6 Unit Data panels taken with the cursor over 6 different units. The name in [] is the unit's supply source. You should be able to find the units on the map and their supply sources. The major supply source for the German units on this fragment of the map is Rommel.

On the left is the Supply Sources and and Paths form. It shows the 12 units that Rommel is keeping in supply and the path that Rommel himself uses to reach supply (in Konigsberg off the bottom left corner - where the 'rg' is visible).

Note that the German XLII Infantry traces to the port Parnu and then through the Baltic to Konigsberg. In the bottom right corner I pasted a sample of the Main Form showing Rommel as the supply source for the XXVI Infantry.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/C7075FC5D895473E9FDFD4BA4143A1D6.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Europe map? (4/25/2013 6:53:37 PM)

Here is another screen shot of the Supply Sources and Paths form. Tangier is tracing an overland path back to Turin (or some city in Italy). Note the diversity of units it is keeping in supply. Units at sea are always in supply.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/606417C311AB4B179E6DAC5C80CABABA.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Europe map? (4/25/2013 7:00:09 PM)

Here are 4 screenshots of one of the games I am using to test supply.

The US has invaded Denmark but isn't making much progress. One of the Bulgarian units traces supply to Copenhagen, which as a secondary supply source traces a rail path to Hamburg (I think). The other Bulgarian unit in Denmark has to use the Baltic Sea to traces supply - to Konigsberg. The program likes Konigsberg because it is the northern most port on the Baltic in Germany.

The Rumanians are getting supply from their HQ in western France, which is also supplying the German naval units in Brest. There is a cluster of 3 German HQs in the Ukraine joined by several Stukas for the push east.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/AD6D33D1C71F43578DA53E487F0F1849.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Europe map? (4/25/2013 7:05:32 PM)

2nd in a series of 4.

Here is the Iberian peninsula and the western Med. Two of the German units in NW Spain are out of supply (they have yellow status indicators in the upper right) because the Allies control the Bay of Biscay. The third German unit is within 4 hexes of Madrid, so it is in supply. The British naval units in Palma are OOS because the Italians control the West Med.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/312FE7B40791416E877F12717AAF9E56.jpg[/image]



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