CHS version 3.0 (Full Version)

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JWE -> CHS version 3.0 (4/15/2007 1:09:19 AM)

It's not really 3.0, I don't know what it might become, but I've done some work on slicking things up and and here it is.

The premes is twofold (seven fold actually, but let’s stick with two for now); first, to develop a ship and class database where the ships and classes represent the actual characteristics, capabilities and numbers pertaining to the Pac theater and; second to develop a database structure that is ship artist friendly and utilizes the stock database and art files, such that the CHS ship art is one-for-one compatible with the stock Matrix art (CHS will necessarily have more art, but further on that below).

What I did was: recognizing that Matrix used the slot numbers for a ship as its bit map number, I unified all of the CHS classes from 0172 to 00391 so as to be the same with stock (only required about 4 – 5 changes). The additional classes, I consolidated a bit, and moved them to slots 1001 – 1171, such that their bit map numbers go 0001 to 0171, with the stock numbers going from 0172 – 0391. There are several CHS classes in slots 0392 – 399 that have corresponding bit maps.

So: with some consolidation, the entire CHS ‘class’ and ‘ship’ database (wpc.dat and wps.dat files) is contained in slots 0172 – 0399 and 1001 and 1171 (i.e. maps from 1 – 399).

For the modders, I reserved 100 bit map positions from 400 – 499 for class upgrades. Some 30 slots are taken up with the PH BB conversions, DDs having X turrets removed, BCs and CAs getting a face lift, and the like. But those are only structural (silhouette) changes. The rest are for the hot paint jobs that Fremen, TomLabel and Dixie are so well known for. Naturally, even the structural upgrades are susceptible to paint jobs.

Bottom line, for the modders and artists, if the ship is in slot 215, its base art will be bit map 0215. For a player, if you want to download a Fremen or Dixie Dido, just look up the Dido in the database, find its slot number (say, 229), and rename your Fremen or Dixie Dido art as AnSide0229 (or AnShil0229).

I am not quite finished. I am incorporating BigB’s work on class characteristics (armor, durability, maneuver, etc…) and adding my own take on fuel, endurance, and capability. My work on Aux and AP/AKs dovetails so nicely with BigB’s, that I suspect we’re secret clones.

This work is a change to the Class and Ship (wpc.dat and wps.dat) databases. However, if there are any other blivets such as the 200 experience Tanaka, please let me know so I can correct them. Please post corrections only, not wishes or desires.



treespider -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (4/15/2007 1:42:53 AM)

Mind if I steal your ship work for Treespider's CHS?



JWE -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (4/15/2007 2:46:01 AM)

Steal away. I would be pleased.



pad152 -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (4/15/2007 2:51:16 AM)

quote:

recognizing that Matrix used the slot numbers for a ship as its bit map number, I unified all of the CHS classes from 0172 to 00391 so as to be the same with stock (only required about 4 – 5 changes


I don't understand this? Who cares what the bmp numbers are, it doesn't matter. You can have any BMP number for any slot with ships. I only wish aircraft were handled like this.

There seems to be a bug in CHS 2.08 Scenario 155, Extended Map, Troops located in base Parakasan - location 541, hex 24,66) on Java can't move anywere. I looks like they should be able to move north, I don't know if it's a map or other issue.





eloso -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (4/15/2007 3:28:51 AM)

I'm all for the continued evolution of CHS. I'm not in favor of multiple flavors but maybe others are. My personal preference is there should be one CHS. My reasoning is for simplicity's sake. This game is long enough as it is without restarting a new one every time the newer version arrives. [;)]

CHS stands for Combined Historical Scenario right? From my understanding it is through the combination of multiple contributors working on the same project. I've been lurking here for a while and noticed that there are multiple variations sprouting up with the absence of Andrew's upgrades. I think it would make the most sense to combine the efforts of those involved in a teamwork environment to achieve the goal.

I've been patiently awaiting the arrival of the standarized art set for the allies. It looks like I'll renumber them to use them in my existing games.



Andrew Brown -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (4/15/2007 3:48:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Steal away. I would be pleased.


I will steal it too, and add it to the CHS upgrade I have started but not yet completed. The upgrade mainly includes fault fixes reported by CHS users. This will give me a "prod" to try to wrap up that upgrade and release it sometime soon.

Andrew

PS: The reason that CHS appears to be splintering is that nobody took up my requests to take over as a coordinator to continue combining the upgrade efforts, and I have not had the time to continue doing that myself, unfortunately.



Blackhorse -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (4/15/2007 4:21:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown
I will steal it too, and add it to the CHS upgrade I have started but not yet completed. The upgrade mainly includes fault fixes reported by CHS users. This will give me a "prod" to try to wrap up that upgrade and release it sometime soon.

Andrew

PS: The reason that CHS appears to be splintering is that nobody took up my requests to take over as a coordinator to continue combining the upgrade efforts, and I have not had the time to continue doing that myself, unfortunately.


I was proud to play a (small) part with the original CHS, and would gladly help a new Coordinator (in an equally small way) maintain and upgrade CHS. Like Andrew, I lack the time to take on the role myself. Unlike Andrew, I also lack the skill to do so.


P.S. I am willing to lead a 'Black Ops' mission to spirit AB away to an undisclosed location, and torture him with heavily-watered down American beers until he finally agrees to return to CHS. Who's with me?
[sm=00000436.gif]



JWE -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (4/15/2007 4:56:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Steal away. I would be pleased.


I will steal it too, and add it to the CHS upgrade I have started but not yet completed. The upgrade mainly includes fault fixes reported by CHS users. This will give me a "prod" to try to wrap up that upgrade and release it sometime soon.

Andrew

PS: The reason that CHS appears to be splintering is that nobody took up my requests to take over as a coordinator to continue combining the upgrade efforts, and I have not had the time to continue doing that myself, unfortunately.


Please, oh please, steal away. I'm just going thru the last test drives, and requesting some fixes for noted database errors that I can include. Finished product goes to you first, along with a complete set of art files (guessing a week or less) along with lots of text, lists, tables and whatnot.



Andrew Brown -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (4/15/2007 5:39:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse
I was proud to play a (small) part with the original CHS, and would gladly help a new Coordinator (in an equally small way) maintain and upgrade CHS. Like Andrew, I lack the time to take on the role myself. Unlike Andrew, I also lack the skill to do so.


Good to see you still around Blackhorse. Your contributions to CHS were greatly appreciated.

quote:

P.S. I am willing to lead a 'Black Ops' mission to spirit AB away to an undisclosed location, and torture him with heavily-watered down American beers until he finally agrees to return to CHS. Who's with me?
[sm=00000436.gif]


Now you got me looking over my shoulder every 5 mins...



m10bob -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (4/15/2007 6:15:12 AM)

I was able to play the original CHS thru to approx 7/44 against the Japanese AI.
Thoroughly enjoyable, but it left me wanting more.
The "want" was not a lacking of anything in CHS, but just part of the (by then) over all addiction..[:D]



treespider -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (4/15/2007 6:44:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OSO

I'm all for the continued evolution of CHS. I'm not in favor of multiple flavors but maybe others are. My personal preference is there should be one CHS. My reasoning is for simplicity's sake. This game is long enough as it is without restarting a new one every time the newer version arrives. [;)]

CHS stands for Combined Historical Scenario right? From my understanding it is through the combination of multiple contributors working on the same project. I've been lurking here for a while and noticed that there are multiple variations sprouting up with the absence of Andrew's upgrades. I think it would make the most sense to combine the efforts of those involved in a teamwork environment to achieve the goal.

I've been patiently awaiting the arrival of the standarized art set for the allies. It looks like I'll renumber them to use them in my existing games.



Currently there is one CHS ...

I have some things I would like to see that may not be agreeable to other contributors to CHS ...hence my decision to create my splinter.,,,,just like Cid has his ideas and Nik has his ideas and Big B his ideas and JWE has ideas... Hopefully people will try my mod when it is completed and if not c'est la vie.



eloso -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (4/15/2007 3:17:13 PM)

I'm actually quite interested in your suggested changes. I've always felt that the pace is way too fast even in my current games. I would also like to try RHS someday but that won't be until the updates slow down.



treespider -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (4/15/2007 4:50:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OSO

I'm actually quite interested in your suggested changes. I've always felt that the pace is way too fast even in my current games. I would also like to try RHS someday but that won't be until the updates slow down.



Well hopefully it will be released for public consumption within the next week or two...I just need to complete the following:

1. Reset the planning for a number of Chinese units
2. My quick and dirty rewrite of the Soviet OoB which uses no new slots and accounts for the August Storm updates.
3. Rehash of Japanese OoB in China- a number of IMB's upgrade to divisions and the current OoB gives the Japanese both essentially doubling their real strength
4. Inclusion of some Nanking Army and Manchukuo Army units - More mouths to feed with no offensive strength.
5. Rework the placement of daily supply and resources in China - the chinese are going to have it tough.
6. Look at Japanese aircraft production - I have the USSBS production figures for all of the Japanese aircraft factories.
7. Other minor tweaks etc...



Fletcher -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (4/15/2007 11:09:17 PM)

I´m interesenting in CHS 3.0, i´ll be watching here to know about.
Thanks !



JWE -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (4/15/2007 11:26:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider


quote:

ORIGINAL: OSO

I'm actually quite interested in your suggested changes. I've always felt that the pace is way too fast even in my current games. I would also like to try RHS someday but that won't be until the updates slow down.



Well hopefully it will be released for public consumption within the next week or two...I just need to complete the following:

1. Reset the planning for a number of Chinese units
2. My quick and dirty rewrite of the Soviet OoB which uses no new slots and accounts for the August Storm updates.
3. Rehash of Japanese OoB in China- a number of IMB's upgrade to divisions and the current OoB gives the Japanese both essentially doubling their real strength
4. Inclusion of some Nanking Army and Manchukuo Army units - More mouths to feed with no offensive strength.
5. Rework the placement of daily supply and resources in China - the chinese are going to have it tough.
6. Look at Japanese aircraft production - I have the USSBS production figures for all of the Japanese aircraft factories.
7. Other minor tweaks etc...


Hi ya Mr. Spider,
One of the other premeses (# 4 or 5, I forget) is that my stuff plates directly into other mods, with little to no effort. All I am changing are the class and ship (wpc and wps) databases. No changes to Devices, Aircraft, Airgroups, Locations, yadda yadda. Test drives work with AB's 'experimental' scen 159 with a simple edit of db call out numbers.

Since most mods are directed to AIR and LCUs, the classes and ships can port right over; the only booger is the TF definition in 'locations' as regards to 'ships'. I have verry carefully left those alone; but if someone has verblungered the TFs in 'locations', certain bets are off.

Otherwise, I see no reason why these wpc and wps files can't be Nik modded, B modded, Spider modded, even AB modded (if we can convince Blackhorse to open a commo channel). Ciao.



Big B -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (4/15/2007 11:55:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE


quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider


quote:

ORIGINAL: OSO

I'm actually quite interested in your suggested changes. I've always felt that the pace is way too fast even in my current games. I would also like to try RHS someday but that won't be until the updates slow down.



Well hopefully it will be released for public consumption within the next week or two...I just need to complete the following:

1. Reset the planning for a number of Chinese units
2. My quick and dirty rewrite of the Soviet OoB which uses no new slots and accounts for the August Storm updates.
3. Rehash of Japanese OoB in China- a number of IMB's upgrade to divisions and the current OoB gives the Japanese both essentially doubling their real strength
4. Inclusion of some Nanking Army and Manchukuo Army units - More mouths to feed with no offensive strength.
5. Rework the placement of daily supply and resources in China - the chinese are going to have it tough.
6. Look at Japanese aircraft production - I have the USSBS production figures for all of the Japanese aircraft factories.
7. Other minor tweaks etc...


Hi ya Mr. Spider,
One of the other premeses (# 4 or 5, I forget) is that my stuff plates directly into other mods, with little to no effort. All I am changing are the class and ship (wpc and wps) databases. No changes to Devices, Aircraft, Airgroups, Locations, yadda yadda. Test drives work with AB's 'experimental' scen 159 with a simple edit of db call out numbers.

Since most mods are directed to AIR and LCUs, the classes and ships can port right over; the only booger is the TF definition in 'locations' as regards to 'ships'. I have verry carefully left those alone; but if someone has verblungered the TFs in 'locations', certain bets are off.

Otherwise, I see no reason why these wpc and wps files can't be Nik modded, B modded, Spider modded, even AB modded (if we can convince Blackhorse to open a commo channel). Ciao.


Keep going JWE! Between You, me, Nik, Andrew, and the Tree(spider) ...and EVERYONE else who mods this game (art, OOB, or otherwise) - collectively we are taking a "Great" game and making it better and better [;)]

EDIT: And I forgot to mention specifically Joe, Don and the other Heavy Hitters' at Matrix who keep this game going!

Perhaps, most of all, whoever the individual at Matrix was - that gave WitP it's unique Editor that made modding possible for all of us 'little guys' [&o][&o][&o]



Terminus -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (4/16/2007 12:29:35 AM)

I believe Mike Wood is responsible for the original WitP editor... Though I must admit to have left that behind long ago...



Sardaukar -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (4/16/2007 10:18:31 AM)

Will definitely like CHS 3.0 !!

And..luke Terminus, I have not used stock editor for some time..I really like Witp Editor X ! [8D]



m10bob -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (4/16/2007 2:28:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE


quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider


quote:

ORIGINAL: OSO

I'm actually quite interested in your suggested changes. I've always felt that the pace is way too fast even in my current games. I would also like to try RHS someday but that won't be until the updates slow down.



Well hopefully it will be released for public consumption within the next week or two...I just need to complete the following:

1. Reset the planning for a number of Chinese units
2. My quick and dirty rewrite of the Soviet OoB which uses no new slots and accounts for the August Storm updates.
3. Rehash of Japanese OoB in China- a number of IMB's upgrade to divisions and the current OoB gives the Japanese both essentially doubling their real strength
4. Inclusion of some Nanking Army and Manchukuo Army units - More mouths to feed with no offensive strength.
5. Rework the placement of daily supply and resources in China - the chinese are going to have it tough.
6. Look at Japanese aircraft production - I have the USSBS production figures for all of the Japanese aircraft factories.
7. Other minor tweaks etc...


Hi ya Mr. Spider,
One of the other premeses (# 4 or 5, I forget) is that my stuff plates directly into other mods, with little to no effort. All I am changing are the class and ship (wpc and wps) databases. No changes to Devices, Aircraft, Airgroups, Locations, yadda yadda. Test drives work with AB's 'experimental' scen 159 with a simple edit of db call out numbers.

Since most mods are directed to AIR and LCUs, the classes and ships can port right over; the only booger is the TF definition in 'locations' as regards to 'ships'. I have verry carefully left those alone; but if someone has verblungered the TFs in 'locations', certain bets are off.

Otherwise, I see no reason why these wpc and wps files can't be Nik modded, B modded, Spider modded, even AB modded (if we can convince Blackhorse to open a commo channel). Ciao.


Keep going JWE! Between You, me, Nik, Andrew, and the Tree(spider) ...and EVERYONE else who mods this game (art, OOB, or otherwise) - collectively we are taking a "Great" game and making it better and better [;)]

EDIT: And I forgot to mention specifically Joe, Don and the other Heavy Hitters' at Matrix who keep this game going!

Perhaps, most of all, whoever the individual at Matrix was - that gave WitP it's unique Editor that made modding possible for all of us 'little guys' [&o][&o][&o]



Hear hear!!

Commercial enterprises and many game designers must know by now adding a game editor adds years to a game, and a *user-friendly* game editor adds more years AND players/buyers to the mix..[sm=00000947.gif]



JWE -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (4/18/2007 10:53:04 PM)

Woof !! This is hard !! Now I know why everybody just danced with pitbulls when it came to unifying the CHS database.

Anyway, all the APs, AKs, TKs, AOs, ADs, ARs, AVs, ASs, and the various APDs, AVDs, etc.. are done! Whew !! Now it's down to the dinkies. I just have to re-aggregate the PCs, PGs, SCs, ... God, I'm tired of nomenclature !!

Looking very good. The SoCal SoPac group did a test drive of a truncated version and, so far, hasn't found any problems.

The art is looking great. I'm getting excited.



JSBoomer -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (4/30/2007 5:16:15 AM)

Can one expect a CHS update soon?



TheElf -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (4/30/2007 5:57:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Steal away. I would be pleased.


I will steal it too, and add it to the CHS upgrade I have started but not yet completed. The upgrade mainly includes fault fixes reported by CHS users. This will give me a "prod" to try to wrap up that upgrade and release it sometime soon.

Andrew

PS: The reason that CHS appears to be splintering is that nobody took up my requests to take over as a coordinator to continue combining the upgrade efforts, and I have not had the time to continue doing that myself, unfortunately.


AB,
You've got more important things to work on. I officially absolve you from any guilt over not updating CHS.

Now, get to work [;)]



Tanaka -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (5/2/2007 1:16:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Steal away. I would be pleased.


I will steal it too, and add it to the CHS upgrade I have started but not yet completed. The upgrade mainly includes fault fixes reported by CHS users. This will give me a "prod" to try to wrap up that upgrade and release it sometime soon.

Andrew

PS: The reason that CHS appears to be splintering is that nobody took up my requests to take over as a coordinator to continue combining the upgrade efforts, and I have not had the time to continue doing that myself, unfortunately.


It is a shame no one will step up and take over the reins on such a great project. But I am very much looking forward to the new CHS upgrade you are working on! Thanks for all your efforts to improve this great game Andrew!



DD696 -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (5/2/2007 2:08:05 AM)

Reference the discussion I tried to bring up on this late last August entitled CHS: The End of the Line? I got shot down faster than a duck flying over Wisconsin. There appeared to be only three of us interested in keeping this gem updated and alive. Since then, I play it, but sure as heck never mention it. I just find other things to do with my spare time.



Tanaka -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (5/2/2007 8:18:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

Reference the discussion I tried to bring up on this late last August entitled CHS: The End of the Line? I got shot down faster than a duck flying over Wisconsin. There appeared to be only three of us interested in keeping this gem updated and alive. Since then, I play it, but sure as heck never mention it. I just find other things to do with my spare time.


Please post a link to the thread. Got shot down by who? For what reason? Did you want to try and lead a revival? What happened?

[Edit] Ok I see it now...but it does not seem like you were shot down at all by anyone unless you are talking about spawn vs no spawn? Why did you give up?

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1237661&mpage=1&key=



Sardaukar -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (5/2/2007 10:14:26 AM)

What I'd like to be included is BigB mod Air-to-Air model (where weapon accuracies and ranges were cut down). While CHS Experimental Air model works well, IMHO BigB-model works even better..and doesn't include any juggling with DUR etc.

I'd do that myself if I could just have energy and bit more time.



JWE -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (5/2/2007 10:49:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

What I'd like to be included is BigB mod Air-to-Air model (where weapon accuracies and ranges were cut down). While CHS Experimental Air model works well, IMHO BigB-model works even better..and doesn't include any juggling with DUR etc.

I'd do that myself if I could just have energy and bit more time.



Yeah, me too.

I'm just working on the ships and classes databases, for a project of my own. It won't be a stand-alone release (too little interest); it is designed to be combined with BigB's air model, or spider's base redefinitions, or Andrew's projected revision, if any of them want to use it.

I know BigB did some sets for the different maps, but I think they were all based on the stock scenario databases. I don't think he has a model based on a regular CHS scenario (Help me out here Brian).



Tanaka -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (5/3/2007 1:33:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

What I'd like to be included is BigB mod Air-to-Air model (where weapon accuracies and ranges were cut down). While CHS Experimental Air model works well, IMHO BigB-model works even better..and doesn't include any juggling with DUR etc.

I'd do that myself if I could just have energy and bit more time.



Yeah, me too.

I'm just working on the ships and classes databases, for a project of my own. It won't be a stand-alone release (too little interest); it is designed to be combined with BigB's air model, or spider's base redefinitions, or Andrew's projected revision, if any of them want to use it.

I know BigB did some sets for the different maps, but I think they were all based on the stock scenario databases. I don't think he has a model based on a regular CHS scenario (Help me out here Brian).


I know Andrew told me he had thought about doing a BigB version...



Andrew Brown -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (5/3/2007 1:54:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
I know Andrew told me he had thought about doing a BigB version...


Yes, I would like to do that. The problem, as always, is time.

The next thing I hope to complete, which has been "on the shelf" in a partially complete state for ages now, is a revision of my map.

Andrew



JWE -> RE: CHS version 3.0 (5/3/2007 2:26:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

I know Andrew told me he had thought about doing a BigB version...


Yes, and as Andrew says, his question is time.

Standing back, I see certain individuals with certain proclivities; Andrew's particular interest is topographical, mine is naval/logistical, BigB's is A2A (and some naval capability), treespider's is infrastructural.

God bless Andrew for doing what he did, that's what the USMC plays. Going forward, however, it seems that there are groups, out there, with specific skews off the nominal.

Can we find (flying fickle finger of fate points to) a CinCCHS who just collates the various db inputs and issues the revs?

Takers?



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