Guess Sinking Ship (Full Version)

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Skyros -> Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 4:11:59 AM)

This could be to easy.



[image]local://upfiles/1408/CDFDB6CFFCBD44ECBE7D9D0D37A6D777.jpg[/image]



ctangus -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 4:26:41 AM)

Zuikaku



Skyros -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 4:29:04 AM)

BANZI!


[image]local://upfiles/1408/87A74C68EBA3430995737CE15AC832D9.jpg[/image]



Scott_USN -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 10:15:03 AM)

Did they all decide to go down with her or something?



Speedysteve -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 1:36:03 PM)

Wow. What a picture....look at them......[X(]



Terminus -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 1:41:59 PM)

Poor bastards...[8|]



m10bob -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 2:12:10 PM)

Selfish mentality actually.. While human beings are the most irreplacable commodity, and the nation had to divest time and money and resources to train, arm, and place them,their culture made them feel the ultimate sacrifice at that moment was to greet their emperor spirituallistically, rather than to seek a means to survive and fight another day!


How many similar "sacrifices" were made thruout that theatre for the same reason?
How might Japan profited if they had survived to "fight another day", with all of those unique human beings?




rtrapasso -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 2:25:04 PM)

From Wiki:

"In October 1944 she was the flagship of Admiral Jisaburo Ozawa's decoy Northern Force in Operation Shō-1. On 24 October 1944 she took part in the battle off Cape Engaņo. She launched her remaining aircraft in an ineffective strike against the U.S. Third Fleet: most were shot down by the American covering patrols, but a few stragglers made it safely to Luzon. Then she came under heavy air attack and was hit by seven torpedoes and nine bombs. With Zuikaku listing heavily to port, Ozawa shifted his flag to Ōyodo. The order to abandon ship was issued at 13:58 and the flag was struck. Zuikaku rolled over and sank at 14:14, taking Captain Kaizuka Takeo and 842 men with her. 862 men were rescued by Wakatsuki and Kuwa."

They also have this same photo with the caption:
"The crew of the sinking Zuikaku salute as the flag is lowered on 25 October 1944."

Another site has this to add (about the same photo):

"View aft from the carrier's island a few moments before capsizing


About 2:00 PM, three hours after Admiral Ozawa debarked, ZUIKAKU lists 30 degrees. A delayed order to abandon ship caused a heavy loss of life. This astonishing photograph shows the crew raising their arms to the Rising Sun while shouting "Banzai! Long Live the Emperor!" three times. Moments later, the last of the carriers that attacked Pearl Harbor capsized and half of them perished."







Speedysteve -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 3:19:45 PM)

I think it's an incredible photo



Bobthehatchit -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 3:58:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

I think it's an incredible photo


Says alot about the courage and disapline of the average Japanies Sailor.



Speedysteve -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 4:57:25 PM)

I'm guessing that when it capsized they were either sucked down with the ship or crushed by the fall into the water and shipping hitting them etc?



Bobthehatchit -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 5:01:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

I'm guessing that when it capsized they were either sucked down with the ship or crushed by the fall into the water and shipping hitting them etc?


I would think so to the suction caused by something that large would be incrediable.

I meant the fact they were still stood there on deck, most sane people would be heading for the nearest boat, raft, life belt etc... They were still stood there weighting to be told to abandon ship.



spence -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 5:21:30 PM)

I'm not positive but this looks like a different view of Zuikaku at about the same time.



[image]local://upfiles/9007/3551FB918C684FFEBD65E4762E5A6D46.jpg[/image]

There are several more USN photos showing her final battle here (towards the end):

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/rep/Leyte/BatExp/img/Leyte-BE-pVId2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/rep/Leyte/BatExp/Leyte-BE-78.2.html&start=30&h=528&w=640&sz=72&tbnid=kaPKRcP48SpqNM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=137&hl=en&um=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbattle%2Boff%2Bsamar%26start%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN



siRkid -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 6:22:56 PM)

Great phots I've never seen before and the site is very good too. Thanks!



Speedysteve -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 6:35:01 PM)

Anyone have any ideas how far away from a ship like that you'd need to be to avoid suction?



mlees -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 6:41:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Anyone have any ideas how far away from a ship like that you'd need to be to avoid suction?


I think it would depend on how big the ship section was (some ships have broken into two or more pieces, with some of those various pieces staying afloat longer than others), and how fast it sank. If it settles slowly, for example, there is not as much suction effect...



niceguy2005 -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 8:09:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobthehatchit
I meant the fact they were still stood there on deck, most sane people would be heading for the nearest boat, raft, life belt etc... They were still stood there weighting to be told to abandon ship.

Does take a lot of guts...but its easier to be suicidal when the guy standing next to you is doing the same.



mikemike -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 8:14:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Selfish mentality actually.. While human beings are the most irreplacable commodity, and the nation had to divest time and money and resources to train, arm, and place them,their culture made them feel the ultimate sacrifice at that moment was to greet their emperor spirituallistically, rather than to seek a means to survive and fight another day!


How many similar "sacrifices" were made thruout that theatre for the same reason?
How might Japan profited if they had survived to "fight another day", with all of those unique human beings?




Exactly my thoughts. But soldiers' lives have always been the cheapest currency in war. Just remember that British authorities in WWI initially were against issuing parachutes to aircrew as they felt it might decrease their will to fight. Just the first example I thought of. Ever seen "Blackadder goes forth" (fourth season)?



Scott_USN -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 9:25:03 PM)

Either way the Z was a hell of a war vet she was ugly as a hippo arse though.



Feinder -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 9:25:18 PM)

How long did it take to sink, after it rolled over? I think the problem of getting sucked under, is greatest if it goes down quick.

But if it rolled over, and then took another 15 minutes to sink, getting pulled under by the ship isn't your problem. Having your crewmate or debris whack you becuase you were on the wrong side of gravity would be the greater threat I believe.

-F-



Scott_USN -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 9:27:22 PM)

I heard it is very difficult to swim in the oil and fuel of a large ship. I read that somewhere maybe the story of the USS Juneau but there was not much left of her though may have been the Indianapolis.



Charbroiled -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 10:29:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

How long did it take to sink, after it rolled over? I think the problem of getting sucked under, is greatest if it goes down quick.

But if it rolled over, and then took another 15 minutes to sink, getting pulled under by the ship isn't your problem. Having your crewmate or debris whack you becuase you were on the wrong side of gravity would be the greater threat I believe.

-F-


And then there are always the "Sharks and Little Fishes".



Speedysteve -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 10:36:08 PM)

Seriously guys this picture is pretty amazing IMO. Just looked at it again now. Just trying to imagine the mentality of standing there and doing that.

Surely whatever happened all those goes are gonners. I mean once it lists a few more degrees they will fall what 80-90 feet to the water? Can humans survive that? Let alone if the ship capsized onto them or pulled them under..................



Terminus -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/11/2007 11:20:11 PM)

Their mentality is vastly different to ours. It's probably not possible to comprehend it for us...



reg113 -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/12/2007 2:44:48 AM)

In aviation "A" school we had to go off a 50' platform to simulate escape from a carrier deck. Not too bad if you keep your back straight and feet together (with boots on). Got on the Big E and found the flight deck was 90' from the water. [:)] Yeah, you can survive but you don't want to jump if you can keep from it...



RUPD3658 -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/12/2007 4:35:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Surely whatever happened all those goes are gonners. I mean once it lists a few more degrees they will fall what 80-90 feet to the water? Can humans survive that?


The can survive the fall easily. It is the sudden stop at the end of the fall that causes a problem.[:D]



Titanwarrior89 -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/12/2007 5:07:41 AM)

No telling what was running thru their minds.  Probley family alot I would think.  After all they are human.



Skyros -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/12/2007 5:34:48 AM)

Here is the link to my source:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/japan/shokaku-cv-pics.htm

Notice the guy on the right walking up the deck who stops to turn and BANZAI



Skyros -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/12/2007 5:35:51 AM)

Anothr shot from that day.

[image]local://upfiles/1408/27CEFB2A27744BC1B42848712F5954F1.jpg[/image]



Skyros -> RE: Guess Sinking Ship (5/12/2007 5:37:26 AM)

Now this took guts! Any volunters to jettison explosives[X(]

[image]local://upfiles/1408/E9051A8CB550455782ADAC9E6A1158F2.jpg[/image]



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