Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (Full Version)

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DBeves -> Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/5/2007 11:12:56 PM)

OK - so I went to the wargamer and saw the screen shot of all the new unit types - nealry made me buy on the spot... then I took a little step back -

I see a post on the Where is fall of the Reich thread below that states ...

"I am creating some scenarios that do use the new units, and they will be coming with the first patch that Dogovich is working on - as the patch is required for the proper functionality of the new units."

So what you have done there is to use something that is not yet implemented in the game and must await a patch - which will arrive who knows when - to sell the game - that is frankly underhand as nowhere does it state that.

IN FACT you state in your advertising blurb the following - yet nowhere does it actually state what the functionality is (or - to be more honest about it - what it WILL be once in the game.)

"Also, players will be thrilled to see added functionality with a variety of the all-new units."


I'm sorry - I'll wear the Fall of the reich error - anybody can make one of those - but I baulk at what I see as half truths being used to take my money .

I have all the old games and they run on my PC. I'm only going to buy this if there is new stuff in it - Matrix with their advertising has led me to believe there is ...

So please can someone from the company please come on this board and honestly tell gamers what - if anything - they are actually getting for their money. I have grown a little tired of the old - niche market ... small company ... paying to keep them developing BS. I'm not asking for the earth - just an honest description of what I'm getting for my money..



Jason Petho -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/5/2007 11:31:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves

OK - so I went to the wargamer and saw the screen shot of all the new unit types - nealry made me buy on the spot... then I took a little step back -

I see a post on the Where is fall of the Reich thread below that states ...

"I am creating some scenarios that do use the new units, and they will be coming with the first patch that Dogovich is working on - as the patch is required for the proper functionality of the new units."

So what you have done there is to use something that is not yet implemented in the game and must await a patch - which will arrive who knows when - to sell the game - that is frankly underhand as nowhere does it state that.

IN FACT you state in your advertising blurb the following - yet nowhere does it actually state what the functionality is (or - to be more honest about it - what it WILL be once in the game.)

"Also, players will be thrilled to see added functionality with a variety of the all-new units."


I'm sorry - I'll wear the Fall of the reich error - anybody can make one of those - but I baulk at what I see as half truths being used to take my money .

I have all the old games and they run on my PC. I'm only going to buy this if there is new stuff in it - Matrix with their advertising has led me to believe there is ...

So please can someone from the company please come on this board and honestly tell gamers what - if anything - they are actually getting for their money. I have grown a little tired of the old - niche market ... small company ... paying to keep them developing BS. I'm not asking for the earth - just an honest description of what I'm getting for my money..


My fault.

While all the new units can be used now in this release of the Campaign Series, there are additional functionality features that are coming in the first patch for SOME of the new units. For example, engineers that can lay minefields, build bridges, etc. The new engineer units are there, and function as normal engineers, but the patch will change them to have them doing what the patch was intended. The Recce Aircraft will be able to move about the map at leisure, while now it is intended as a stationary piece.

Sorry for the confusion.

Jason Petho




DBeves -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/6/2007 12:01:45 AM)

Well ... I appreciate the answer ..... short as it was.

And sorry - but that does strike me as a complete cop out that not only fails to answer both of my questions but also raises further doubts as to exactly how this game will develop...

So for clarification ...

1. Why is this game - now the error has been admitted - being sold with misleading advertising - and dont you think you ought to change it ?

2. What exactly is the difference between this game and the World at War complation cantaining all the games - which I have and works fine on my XP machine ?

3. You seemd a little vague about what would be forth coming and when ... and if ... you seem to completely fail to explain what the purpose of the supply units will be - as shown at the wargamer - surely a major engine change ...


This is an excellent series of games and but one I am only interested in buying (now - and maybe this lies at the heart of the matter ) - if it contains something different to what I have already ...



Howard7x -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/6/2007 12:09:18 AM)

Would like to see the answers for your other questions DBeves but isnt question 1 a little obvious?

The game will be patched in a week or so and will include the new scenarios, whats the point in changing the advertising for 1 week only. I dont see the point in them waisting their time. Would it not be better spent working on the patch so that they dont need to change the advertising?



DBeves -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/6/2007 12:14:48 AM)

Sorry - but where did he state a week or so ?... and no - I dont agree with you ... I dont think they should sell it with the advertising in place even if it is only for a week - but maybe I'm just being a little stubborn - because I dont think it was an accident or an oversight in the first place ...



Jason Petho -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/6/2007 12:16:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves
1. Why is this game - now the error has been admitted - being sold with misleading advertising - and dont you think you ought to change it ?



There are new units with new functionality. The various trains units, for example.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves
2. What exactly is the difference between this game and the World at War complation cantaining all the games - which I have and works fine on my XP machine ?


CD free operation, Win98-Vista compatibility, new units, new countries, enhanced map editors, more options for years in the oob editor.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves
3. You seemd a little vague about what would be forth coming and when ... and if ... you seem to completely fail to explain what the purpose of the supply units will be - as shown at the wargamer - surely a major engine change ...


A previous post, dated 5/17/2007, listed this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

According to dogovich, the areas he will work on for the first "patch" will include the following:

- Error fixing as reported.
- Aircraft and ship movement slot.
- Berserk (Banzai) attacks for other nations.
- Unmounted horses that move.
- Engineers and recovery vehicles that remove wrecks.
- Aircraft units that can only be targeted by AA weapons.
- Three to four more nation slots.
- Engineers able to cross minor rivers/gullies/etc with pontoon like bridges.
- Engineers able to erect barriers.
- Engineers able to emplace level one mine fields.
- Suicide weapons (Jap anti-tank/suicide bombers (DG)/Chinese Do or Die teams)
- Leaders in Tanks (that can be destroyed).
- Look at assaults and see what I can do about making them better.


Depending on how far Dogovich has gotten, some or all of these could be included in the fix we presently have to add anyway. I'll find out more when we talk tonight.

Supply units operate as additional HQ units, with the same functionality. Some are stationary, some are mobile.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves
This is an excellent series of games and but one I am only interested in buying (now - and maybe this lies at the heart of the matter ) - if it contains something different to what I have already ...


There is also the option of holding off for a little while and see how dedicated we are as a team to the Campaign Series, then making a decision based on how we are holding up to our end of the deal.

Jason Petho





ScotAlex -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/6/2007 12:34:01 AM)

Where is this false advertising

http://www.digitalriver.com/dr/v2/ec_Main.Entry17C?SID=45905&SP=10023&CID=0&PID=922067&PN=1&V1=922067&CUR=840&DSP=&PGRP=0&ABCODE=&CACHE_ID=0

I got all this and more except for the Fall of the Reich, which was just an error that anyone of us could have made. They have acknowleded it and are going to fix it.

Look at the other posts for these complainers, it is all they do....

Again, Great game, Great price, keep up the good work.  I challenge you to go to any game distributor who has put out a new game, and see if you get reponses in minutes like you do here.




33sherman -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/6/2007 12:39:08 AM)

I don't think there's been false advertising, either. In fact, that's why I haven't purchased the game yet! Because I own all the CS games and they work fine, and I know the current build isn't a huge leap from the old games (although I'm definitely enticed by all the new countries included).


I will, however, purchase the game eventually for the FOTR scenarios and the ongoing community and additional scenarios/campaigns/improvements that we can (hopefully) get going here once the glitches are ironed out.



1925frank -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/6/2007 12:41:40 AM)

I've no doubt the team is dedicated to the Campaign Series.

A release is the ultimate beta tester.  At least that's out of the way.

Hang in there.  Everyone, even those persons upset now, want you to succeed. 



DBeves -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/6/2007 12:53:00 AM)

Gamers who purchase this unique Campaign Series compilation will get to see hundreds of new unit types for almost every country. (see sample screenshot)

Quote from the wargamer (Putting that screenshot there - which matrix must have sent implied these were in the game already) - Sorry - but the article read like a sales pitch direct from matrix ... maybe the wargamer is to blame ... well well ..

Bla complainer bla ... fanboi ...

and well yes of course - speed of response on a discussion board is why I would buy a game from a company ... silly me ...



JudgeDredd -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/6/2007 12:58:51 AM)

quote:


Bla complainer bla ... fanboi ...

So lame [&o]



Terl -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/6/2007 1:06:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves
Bla complainer bla ... fanboi ...


Matrix makes good on everything; as explained in other threads a mistake was made. It will be fixed . Buy, don't buy, your choice.

EDIT: Quoted wrong post originaly, sorry Judge.



JudgeDredd -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/6/2007 1:09:46 AM)

No...no....I agree. I was saying the fanboi comment was lame.

I must be a fanboi too. But that's not really it....simply that I've been at Matrix long enough to know they do not rip people off, they do not false advertise and they do not steal. If I understand all that and it makes me a fanboi, then so be it.



Howard7x -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/6/2007 1:13:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves

Sorry - but where did he state a week or so ?...



http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1475426&mpage=1&key=

Post #9

Fanboi out. [8|]

[&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o]




andym -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/6/2007 1:21:19 AM)

Ermmmm,whats a fanboi?

Ok i'll get me coat.



Howard7x -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/6/2007 1:25:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves
and well yes of course - speed of response on a discussion board is why I would buy a game from a company ... silly me ...


Believe it or not Fanboi, its actually a HUGE reason people choose to make their wargaming purchases from Matrix Games. Its not about making you buy a game. Its about making you feel satisfied AFTER you have purchased a game. Hence making you feel confident enough to buy from them again knowing your getting a good service.



ScotAlex -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/6/2007 1:45:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: andym

Ermmmm,whats a fanboi?



Boi- The Board of Investment of Thailand, The Bank of Ireland, Three letter designation for the Boise, Idaho airport. I am really not a fan of these at all, they lost my luggage once in Boise.

Or a reference to sexual orientation, which I am sure is not what he meant at all, that would most likely get him tossed off this board.



jchastain -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/6/2007 6:20:01 AM)

It amazes me how many people saw one episode of Judge Judy and decide they are legal experts.  But I have to admit the false advertising accusations here are not nearly as funny as the referenced guy who is threatening a $30 lawsuit.

I'm the first to speak up when I believe Matrix has made a legitimate mistake... but... come on....

In the unlikely event that the I-demand-what-I-want-and-you-better-give-it-to-me-right-now-cause-I-know-my-rights crowd is old enough to have seen the movie stripes... Lighten up Frances.  [;)]



JudgeDredd -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/6/2007 9:41:26 AM)

STRIPES!!!!! I loved that film. Made me respec the US Military [;)]

Seriously, it was a film I really enjoyed watching when I was a kid - although it DID kind of not prpare me for real life military life!!



jbunnelle -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/6/2007 4:58:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jchastain

It amazes me how many people saw one episode of Judge Judy and decide they are legal experts. But I have to admit the false advertising accusations here are not nearly as funny as the referenced guy who is threatening a $30 lawsuit.


"Lee Harvey!....You are a maaaadman!" LOL God, I haven't seen that since I was twelve.

Yeah, not exactly a case for tort lawyers to jump on.



Tank Commander_MatrixForum -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/6/2007 5:20:30 PM)

In fairness I think having waited so far with a patch in the making it wouldn't have been unreasonable to wait for the 'patch' before releasing this and have it go gold with the first release?

Well thas my view, perhaps not all agree?

Poor Matrix..damned if they do and damned if they dont[:D]



DBeves -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/7/2007 12:32:41 AM)

Which is exactly my point - if the patch is so close why push it out the door half done ?



With regard to the rather lame fanboi bleating in the previous posts

I quote

"Look at the other posts for these complainers, it is all they do.... "

Dont stereotype me into some kind of troll on the board and I wont do the same to you...



ScotAlex -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/7/2007 12:44:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves


With regard to the rather lame fanboi bleating in the previous posts





The difference is that I was not insulting you, by calling you a name. I tried to let it pass with a little humor.




David Heath -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/7/2007 12:46:27 AM)

Hi Guys

We clearly stated that the release version as a mistake and we would issue a patch to correct our first mistake.  Now we are double and triple checking to make sure everything is correct this time around.  It was not a matter of waiting and not needing the patch.



MemoryLeak -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/7/2007 1:16:27 AM)

DBeves is a professional whiner and a moron and not worth responding to. Yes I called him a name. Accurate but not allowed. Sorry. It is time for him to stop with his complaining. I have been playing the game and it is as enjoyable as I remember the orignal to be. Good work. Matrix has a lot of dedicated people working hard to make these games available for us.



freeboy -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/7/2007 1:26:48 AM)

Matrix does correct in timely fashion, this looks like a winner if only that darned CAW did not go gold!



jchastain -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/7/2007 1:53:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MemoryLeak
DBeves is a professional whiner and a moron and not worth responding to. Yes I called him a name. Accurate but not allowed. Sorry. It is time for him to stop with his complaining. I have been playing the game and it is as enjoyable as I remember the orignal to be. Good work. Matrix has a lot of dedicated people working hard to make these games available for us.


In my opinion, this comment goes way too far and is inappropriate. Clearly I am not afraid to criticize disagreeable comments, and I have done so. But criticizing someone's comments is far different in my mind from blatant personal assults such as this one. We've all been guilty of this from time to time, but let's please try and keep our emotions in check and not turn a disagreement about a game into something personal.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/7/2007 2:18:42 AM)

I agree - everyone please refrain from making personal attacks. As I said on another thread, there are some legitimate gripes with some mistakes we made in the release. We are working to fix those and have no problem taking a few lumps for letting them slip past us. Once these problems are resolved, I'm sure the folks who are now complaining will be much happier, but it's their right to give us some flak when we screw up. We're big boys, we can take it too.

Regards,

- Erik



ravinhood -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/7/2007 4:14:26 AM)

quote:

Ermmmm,whats a fanboi?

Ok i'll get me coat.



Fanboi is an over zealous fan and gains boi for a "Boisterous Otiose Indomitable" personality.



Alan_Bernardo -> RE: Come on Matrix lets be honestly clear about this game (6/7/2007 5:29:09 AM)

The way I see this is that Matrix has made an unfortunate error.  It's not the end of the world.  To make claims of false advertising is only valid if it
can be proven that it was done intentionally to mislead.

Game over.  Case closed.  I've seen worse mistakes, mistakes that have cost lives.  This mistake was regrettable but harmless.  By the end of the week all will be cleaned up and the world will be a better place.


Alan



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