Creating a Firestorm

Creating a Firestorm (Full Version)

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KDonovan -> Creating a Firestorm (6/8/2007 3:51:16 PM)
is it possible to create a Firestorm over Japanese Cities in this game? i've been bombing a couple Japanese Manpower centers, which resulted in 1000+ fires.....but next turn they usually are snuffed out is it possible to bomb to a point where the fire's are sustained for a period of time?.....and if so..... will the resulting firestorm gut the Industry centers in that city hex?

BLurking -> RE: Creating a Firestorm (6/8/2007 4:40:27 PM)
I've done it in China using Sallies, so you should be able to do it in Japan. Make sure: Target is heavily reconned. Airbase is large enough. Aircraft not at extended range. Daylight raids, 6000 ft. Hit it often enough, and things will burn...

rockmedic109 -> RE: Creating a Firestorm (6/8/2007 4:42:57 PM)
Fire levels drop quickly. If you build up enough fires, then you will destroy {as opposed to disable} some of the industry/resources in the hex. From what I know {which is very little}, not much is destroyed. Other than maybe scoring strategic points, I am not sure you'd want to......if they are disabled and the Japanese player doesn't click no repairs, it sucks 1000 supply trying to repair things.

Andy Mac -> RE: Creating a Firestorm (6/8/2007 4:53:30 PM)
Shhh dont tell PZB that its the cornerstone of my bombing campaign [:D][:D][:D]

RUPD3658 -> RE: Creating a Firestorm (6/8/2007 5:24:19 PM)
My buildings are built of asbestos (cough...cough...hack) so they don't burn. [:'(]

Feinder -> RE: Creating a Firestorm (6/8/2007 5:43:08 PM)
It's been a while since I tested this, but it's VERY hard to sustain fires. As I recall, it reduces fires TO 10% every 12 hours (so twice a day). I think it should be BY 10% each 12 hours, but that's not up to me. :^) So if create a 1000 fires (which is really nothing much in game terms), by then end of the next turn (if you don't bomb again), the fires drop to: 1000 x .1 = 100 (AM) 100 x .1 = 10 (PM) So if you stop for a day (or if the weather grounds you), the fires will go from 1000 to 10. Frankly, if it were BY 10% (instead of TO 10%), you'd see something like: 1000 x .9 = 900 (AM) 900 x .9 = 810 (PM) In that case, you could actually manage to incease fires over a period of time. But as it stands now, they go out -very- quickly (and the bigger the fire, the faster they go out)... Currently, if you managed 20,000 fires (do-able with a lot of bombers) 20,000 x .1 = 2000 (AM) 2000 x .1 = 200 (PM). Your 20,000 fires are down to 200 (nothing) by the next day. -F-

tsimmonds -> RE: Creating a Firestorm (6/8/2007 7:08:53 PM)
Can't-miss way to create a firestorm? Start a thread titled "Zero Bonus should be increased"[;)]

RUPD3658 -> RE: Creating a Firestorm (6/8/2007 7:36:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: irrelevant Can't-miss way to create a firestorm? Start a thread titled "Zero Bonus should be increased"[;)] [sm=sterb032.gif]

KDonovan -> RE: Creating a Firestorm (6/8/2007 9:28:15 PM)
quote: It's been a while since I tested this, but it's VERY hard to sustain fires. As I recall, it reduces fires TO 10% every 12 hours (so twice a day). I think it should be BY 10% each 12 hours, but that's not up to me. :^) So if create a 1000 fires (which is really nothing much in game terms), by then end of the next turn (if you don't bomb again), the fires drop to: 1000 x .1 = 100 (AM) 100 x .1 = 10 (PM) So if you stop for a day (or if the weather grounds you), the fires will go from 1000 to 10. Frankly, if it were BY 10% (instead of TO 10%), you'd see something like: 1000 x .9 = 900 (AM) 900 x .9 = 810 (PM) In that case, you could actually manage to incease fires over a period of time. But as it stands now, they go out -very- quickly (and the bigger the fire, the faster they go out)... Currently, if you managed 20,000 fires (do-able with a lot of bombers) 20,000 x .1 = 2000 (AM) 2000 x .1 = 200 (PM). Your 20,000 fires are down to 200 (nothing) by the next day. doh!....thanks Feinder.......guess i'll just stick to precision bombing..... speaking of which....wouldn't it be nice to target rail line bridges in this game....my oppenant is moving troops all around China...and i can't do a thing to stem to flow of men and material

tsimmonds -> RE: Creating a Firestorm (6/8/2007 9:44:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KDonovan speaking of which....wouldn't it be nice to target rail line bridges in this game....my oppenant is moving troops all around China...and i can't do a thing to stem to flow of men and material That's easy to fix....switch to CHS![;)]

dtravel -> RE: Creating a Firestorm (6/8/2007 10:17:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KDonovan quote: It's been a while since I tested this, but it's VERY hard to sustain fires. As I recall, it reduces fires TO 10% every 12 hours (so twice a day). I think it should be BY 10% each 12 hours, but that's not up to me. :^) So if create a 1000 fires (which is really nothing much in game terms), by then end of the next turn (if you don't bomb again), the fires drop to: 1000 x .1 = 100 (AM) 100 x .1 = 10 (PM) So if you stop for a day (or if the weather grounds you), the fires will go from 1000 to 10. Frankly, if it were BY 10% (instead of TO 10%), you'd see something like: 1000 x .9 = 900 (AM) 900 x .9 = 810 (PM) In that case, you could actually manage to incease fires over a period of time. But as it stands now, they go out -very- quickly (and the bigger the fire, the faster they go out)... Currently, if you managed 20,000 fires (do-able with a lot of bombers) 20,000 x .1 = 2000 (AM) 2000 x .1 = 200 (PM). Your 20,000 fires are down to 200 (nothing) by the next day. doh!....thanks Feinder.......guess i'll just stick to precision bombing..... speaking of which....wouldn't it be nice to target rail line bridges in this game....my oppenant is moving troops all around China...and i can't do a thing to stem to flow of men and material Not to mention that you can't destroy industry (despite what the manual says). Mogami did tests a while back that showed that. All Fires will do is damage industry (and barely do so at that).

treespider -> RE: Creating a Firestorm (6/8/2007 10:23:56 PM)
Wildcats suck! Zero's rule! Oh we're talking about strategic bombing....

treespider -> RE: Creating a Firestorm (6/8/2007 10:27:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KDonovan speaking of which....wouldn't it be nice to target rail line bridges in this game....my oppenant is moving troops all around China...and i can't do a thing to stem to flow of men and material So does it really take two weeks to move by rail from Peking to Shanghai once your loaded on the train? How will you measure how destroyed the bridge really is? How will you account for ferry systems that would replace the rail bridge?

dtravel -> RE: Creating a Firestorm (6/8/2007 10:33:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: treespider quote: ORIGINAL: KDonovan speaking of which....wouldn't it be nice to target rail line bridges in this game....my oppenant is moving troops all around China...and i can't do a thing to stem to flow of men and material So does it really take two weeks to move by rail from Peking to Shanghai once your loaded on the train? How will you measure how destroyed the bridge really is? How will you account for ferry systems that would replace the rail bridge? Two days to load all the troops present and their equipment. Four days to round up all the jokers AWOL and get them on board. Two days for the train to go from Peking to Shangai. A day to march everyone off the train. Two days to get everyone organized and back in their proper sub-units. Another day to round up the jokers who went AWOL during the previous three days. And finally a day for the officers in charge to realize they got off at the wrong stop. [:D]

treespider -> RE: Creating a Firestorm (6/8/2007 10:39:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dtravel quote: ORIGINAL: treespider quote: ORIGINAL: KDonovan speaking of which....wouldn't it be nice to target rail line bridges in this game....my oppenant is moving troops all around China...and i can't do a thing to stem to flow of men and material So does it really take two weeks to move by rail from Peking to Shanghai once your loaded on the train? How will you measure how destroyed the bridge really is? How will you account for ferry systems that would replace the rail bridge? Two days to load all the troops present and their equipment. Four days to round up all the jokers AWOL and get them on board. Two days for the train to go from Peking to Shangai. A day to march everyone off the train. Two days to get everyone organized and back in their proper sub-units. Another day to round up the jokers who went AWOL during the previous three days. And finally a day for the officers in charge to realize they got off at the wrong stop. [:D] Or you could add in a day to transfer from train to ferry and another day back onto the train...[;)]

Panther Bait -> RE: Creating a Firestorm (6/8/2007 11:23:17 PM)
When the Allies were firebombing Japan and Germany, how long did the firestorm actually burn? Did the firestorms really continue for days? I could see the already devastated areas smoldering/lightly burning for days, but not a true firestorm for that long. Not that anyone would have any hope of putting them out, but I would think that a true firestorm would consume the available fuel in a any given area fairly rapidly. In that case, they could only be sustained for long periods by moving around, and the fires would evenutually either spread so far out that the high winds could not be sustained or hit a large enough firebreak (natural or man-made) to stop it.

Feinder -> RE: Creating a Firestorm (6/8/2007 11:27:45 PM)
quote: So does it really take two weeks to move by rail from Peking to Shanghai once your loaded on the train? How will you measure how destroyed the bridge really is? How will you account for ferry systems that would replace the rail bridge? If a bomb falls on the bridge and no one is around, does it make sound? -F-

Nikademus -> RE: Creating a Firestorm (6/8/2007 11:31:43 PM)
well the bigger factor to remember is that there were very few Firestorms to begin with....I can think of two off the top of my head (Dresden and Hamburg?) no they didn't burn at super high intensity for weeks, the worst of them did burn for at least 48 hours IIRC...enough that followup raids the next day had trouble aiming for all th smoke

RUPD3658 -> RE: Creating a Firestorm (6/9/2007 1:35:20 AM)
IRL the buildings would be destroyed but the heavy equipment could be salvaged. This equates to HI being damaged vs totally destroyed.

RUPD3658 -> RE: Creating a Firestorm (6/9/2007 1:38:02 AM)
double post

tsimmonds -> RE: Creating a Firestorm (6/9/2007 2:11:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dtravel quote: ORIGINAL: treespider quote: ORIGINAL: KDonovan speaking of which....wouldn't it be nice to target rail line bridges in this game....my oppenant is moving troops all around China...and i can't do a thing to stem to flow of men and material So does it really take two weeks to move by rail from Peking to Shanghai once your loaded on the train? How will you measure how destroyed the bridge really is? How will you account for ferry systems that would replace the rail bridge? Two days to load all the troops present and their equipment. Four days to round up all the jokers AWOL and get them on board. Two days for the train to go from Peking to Shangai. A day to march everyone off the train. Two days to get everyone organized and back in their proper sub-units. Another day to round up the jokers who went AWOL during the previous three days. And finally a day for the officers in charge to realize they got off at the wrong stop. [:D] Without a movement cost to entrain and detrain, and a rail capacity limit, you can't think of this as rail transport. It is simply moving along a highway.

rockmedic109 -> RE: Creating a Firestorm (6/9/2007 2:55:54 AM)
Tokyo was a firestorm as well. I've read that people jumped into a river only to be boiled as the water was boiled away.

dtravel -> RE: Creating a Firestorm (6/9/2007 5:04:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: irrelevant quote: ORIGINAL: dtravel quote: ORIGINAL: treespider quote: ORIGINAL: KDonovan speaking of which....wouldn't it be nice to target rail line bridges in this game....my oppenant is moving troops all around China...and i can't do a thing to stem to flow of men and material So does it really take two weeks to move by rail from Peking to Shanghai once your loaded on the train? How will you measure how destroyed the bridge really is? How will you account for ferry systems that would replace the rail bridge? Two days to load all the troops present and their equipment. Four days to round up all the jokers AWOL and get them on board. Two days for the train to go from Peking to Shangai. A day to march everyone off the train. Two days to get everyone organized and back in their proper sub-units. Another day to round up the jokers who went AWOL during the previous three days. And finally a day for the officers in charge to realize they got off at the wrong stop. [:D] Without a movement cost to entrain and detrain, and a rail capacity limit, you can't think of this as rail transport. It is simply moving along a highway. <search&replace/train/trucks> [:'(]

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