RE: Par for the Course (Full Version)

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Berkut -> RE: Par for the Course (7/25/2007 9:06:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

quote:

ORIGINAL: AU Tiger

"PITA" interface? So what if it is? WitP has the worst interface for a game I have seen since "Stellar Empires" on my old TRS-80, but is the best game I have played to date. If you want Bells and Whistles, go play Myst, SIMS: Frat Party, or whatever other RPG the rest of the world is playing now. If you want a solid wargame, stick with Matrix IMHO.

Relinquishing my soapbox now.....


I have Company Of Heroes and that has all the bells and whistles. However, like you said and I agree totally, WitP is much more fun than COH. I go back to WitP, WPO, and UV when I want to feel like I used my brain and not just my eyes. [;)]

I don't own this GoA game yet, but after a while I might. I'm reading the posts.



"Bells and whistles" != interface.

And imagine how good WitP could be without the horrendous interface? WitP does not need anymore bells and whistles - but it could be a much, much better gaming experience with a re-designed interface. One that, for example, did not require the Japanese player to spend 8 hours on his first move doing exciting things like loading transports. Oops! I just overloaded that one! Time to reload from a save and start over!



*Lava* -> RE: Par for the Course (7/25/2007 9:08:36 PM)

Well sir..

I'm not the one who started a thread with sweeping generalizations in what I can only call an attempt to butcher the game.

Nice try though.

Ray (alias Lava)



Berkut -> RE: The interface (7/25/2007 9:08:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Thanks for the criticism guys, I am going to give it a good go about doing something about the screen resolution issue at least.





Excellent!

This, IMO, is more important than the interface anyway - if the game is great (and it appears to be) the interface will be irrelevant once you play a few times. That small screen won't ever go away though...



Berkut -> RE: Par for the Course (7/25/2007 9:09:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lava

Well sir..

I'm not the one who started a thread with sweeping generalizations in what I can only call an attempt to butcher the game.

Nice try though.

Ray (alias Lava)


Is this what passes for discussion around here?



sol_invictus -> RE: Par for the Course (7/25/2007 9:14:07 PM)

OK, you guys have made your points. Nothing more to be said really. Lets not get in a pissing contest.[:-]



LarryP -> RE: The interface (7/25/2007 10:07:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHellPatrol

[:@]HEY!!! Who you callin' a newbie CHUMP? You can call me names but leave LarryP alone[:-][:D][;)]


Thanks HellPatrol! [&o] However, my joined date and the true date are different. I was on these forums in around 2001 with a different name and when I changed profiles, they would not merge. So I knew I was not really a newbie but since he was from New Zealand, I figured I best not clutter his mind with hard details. [;)]



LarryP -> RE: Par for the Course (7/25/2007 10:12:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Berkut

"Bells and whistles" != interface.

And imagine how good WitP could be without the horrendous interface? WitP does not need anymore bells and whistles - but it could be a much, much better gaming experience with a re-designed interface. One that, for example, did not require the Japanese player to spend 8 hours on his first move doing exciting things like loading transports. Oops! I just overloaded that one! Time to reload from a save and start over!


I for one would sure appreciate a better interface for WitP. We better be careful here, someone might get their little feelings hurt. [;)]



Hanal -> RE: Par for the Course (7/25/2007 10:31:32 PM)

All I will say regarding the interface is that once you play a turn or two, everything falls into place and it is no problem.  Sure, I admit to left clicking when I should have right clicked a few times at the outset but that didn't last long. This is not a game breaker  people and anyone who passes on this game because they are under the impression that the interface is difficult to deal with will be missing out....



JudgeDredd -> RE: Par for the Course (7/25/2007 11:30:02 PM)

Well I've just got it and whilst I admit the interface is a little quirky, I'd say it's just fine once you're used to it. I've been playing about an hour and whilst I'm no master at the game, the interface is taking no time at all from the actual game.

Second nature now.

I think somone mentioned another zoom out level would be good and I agree.



ETF -> RE: The interface (7/26/2007 3:26:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Thanks for the criticism guys, I am going to give it a good go about doing something about the screen resolution issue at least.




Excellent Sir........When you do you just made another sale [:D]



Bossy573 -> RE: The interface (7/26/2007 3:32:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Thanks for the criticism guys, I am going to give it a good go about doing something about the screen resolution issue at least.




[8D]

IMHO, the windowed aspect doesn't concern me. But when I try to play the game on my desktop monitor, the map doesn't scale to the game window so I'm left with a bunch of blank screen where game map should be.
I hope this made sense. You friendly, company IT guy I'm not. [;)]



marklv -> RE: The interface (7/26/2007 4:42:22 AM)

This game is a piece of crap.  Incredibly bad interface.  Just a small window in the screen, much too small, no scrolling.  WTF is this guy thinking?? [:@]

The game itself is also crap.  What the hell does one have to do to attack?  All these phases are boring and waste time - I want to play the goddamn game, not tinker with it!  Commander Europe at War is a much better designed game.

GET THOSE PATCHES IN! THE GAME IS UNPLAYABLE NOW! [:@]



SMK-at-work -> RE: The interface (7/26/2007 5:02:38 AM)

lots of people posting how much they enjoy it, how the UI is fine, how the game is really cool, but no...this guy knows it all.....and all those other folks are jsut plain wrong I guess!!

I reckon ADHD....not enough ritalin...[:D][:D]

At least we won't have to see him back here tho[8D]



sol_invictus -> RE: The interface (7/26/2007 5:10:54 AM)

YIKES! Take a stiff drink.[sm=party-smiley-012.gif]



typhoon -> RE: The interface (7/26/2007 5:14:55 AM)

If you don't like the phases then I fear you will never like this game no matter how many patches. For me they are the clever bit and a very refreshing idea. As for Commander yes it's a very good game one I'm also enjoying but hardly anything new Panzer General refreshed  refined and made strategic and the PBEM in that leaves much to the imagination this PBEM's the same as it does against the A.I. The more of this I play the more confident I am that the feel is right that might not mean much to many but I play alot of Panzer Campaigns and I believe the success of that system is all down to the feel of the game each battle feels right for what it tries to portray. With Guns of August you have a game that feels like World War One and plays like World War One perhaps it was just not something you really wanted.



Bossy573 -> RE: The interface (7/26/2007 5:24:23 AM)

The game lacks polish in some areas (the game would be awesome full screen at 1600x1200 [:D] and I would love to be able to zoom in and out of the main map, etc.) but the mechanics are rock solid. It "feels" like a WWI game should, IMHO of course.



Tophat1815 -> RE: The interface (7/26/2007 5:35:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: marklv

This game is a piece of crap. Incredibly bad interface. Just a small window in the screen, much too small, no scrolling. WTF is this guy thinking?? [:@]

The game itself is also crap. What the hell does one have to do to attack? All these phases are boring and waste time - I want to play the goddamn game, not tinker with it! Commander Europe at War is a much better designed game.

GET THOSE PATCHES IN! THE GAME IS UNPLAYABLE NOW! [:@]



Who pissed in your Wheaties? It's a WWI strategic wargame that requires more than a wee-tad bit of contemplation. If you think this is too slow for you better stay clear of Witp or you'll be reduced to tears.[8|]



Berkut -> RE: The interface (7/26/2007 6:34:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marklv

This game is a piece of crap. Incredibly bad interface. Just a small window in the screen, much too small, no scrolling. WTF is this guy thinking?? [:@]

The game itself is also crap. What the hell does one have to do to attack? All these phases are boring and waste time - I want to play the goddamn game, not tinker with it! Commander Europe at War is a much better designed game.

GET THOSE PATCHES IN! THE GAME IS UNPLAYABLE NOW! [:@]


See now, THIS is someone butchering the game!

And someone who does not understand the seperation between the gameplay and the interface - on the other hand, that is a common trait amongst software users, and why it is worth the trouble to get the interface right.

Excuse me while I go play for a while. I finally have time to dedicate an hour or so to playing...



Berkut -> RE: The interface (7/26/2007 6:35:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bossy573

The game lacks polish in some areas (the game would be awesome full screen at 1600x1200 [:D] and I would love to be able to zoom in and out of the main map, etc.) but the mechanics are rock solid. It "feels" like a WWI game should, IMHO of course.


Just imagine this thing at 1600x1200, seeing ALL of any given front on the screen at the same time...drool.



Ike99 -> RE: The interface (7/26/2007 8:33:18 AM)

quote:

This game is a piece of crap. Incredibly bad interface. Just a small window in the screen, much too small, no scrolling. WTF is this guy thinking??

The game itself is also crap. What the hell does one have to do to attack? All these phases are boring and waste time - I want to play the goddamn game, not tinker with it! Commander Europe at War is a much better designed game.

GET THOSE PATCHES IN! THE GAME IS UNPLAYABLE NOW!


Someone call the troll patrol! [:D]

How can you tell if this game is unplayable and crap? It was released ONE day ago! [&:]

Someone should stick to playing checkers. [:D]

OK...serious point time. Putting this interface thing into context...I don´t own the game BUT [;)]

Almost all these ¨war¨, ¨strategy games¨....whatever you want to call them are really VERY complex. One that comes to mind is TOAW, a true classic game trashed for it`s interface.

I love the game and have played it for years. Was the interface ¨intuitive¨ to where I could pick up the game and be playing in 10 minutes?

Are you kidding...No Way. The games too deep and complex. For that game, and I`m thinking this game too it`s like this. Once you figure it out though and get used to using it's interface you find a great game.

For a game like TOAW and I suspect this game too I don´t see how it's possible to build a ¨intuitive interface¨

The screen resolution thing...yeah, there should be options, all the way from 800x640 and up.

BTW Frank...loved your American Civil War game. I`ll get this one too eventually. [;)]



JudgeDredd -> RE: The interface (7/26/2007 10:58:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marklv

This game is a piece of crap. Incredibly bad interface. Just a small window in the screen, much too small, no scrolling. WTF is this guy thinking?? [:@]

The game itself is also crap. What the hell does one have to do to attack? All these phases are boring and waste time - I want to play the goddamn game, not tinker with it! Commander Europe at War is a much better designed game.

GET THOSE PATCHES IN! THE GAME IS UNPLAYABLE NOW! [:@]

BoIIocks...does this
quote:

Commander Europe at War is a much better designed game
mean he's going to be hanging around the Commander Europe at War forum? If so, it almost makes me wish I hadn't bought it.

Seriously, though, people have different opinions and most people are fine with it. But I think some people have communication skill problems.

I mean, seriously, if this guy is working, has no-one smacked him? And if he isn't has his mummy or daddy not smacked him?



Adam Parker -> RE: The interface (7/26/2007 11:11:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

On the subject of my interfaces, I would agree they aren't that cute.  Its what I'm used to so that's how I tend to do it.  I'm also not interested in programming interfaces...  I can see how that would be frustrating though if a player's interests don't coincide with my own.


Well Frank let me applaud you for the most honest statement I've ever read from a designer.

IMO though, that's where the developer (in this case Matrix) I feel should step in.

However, I can also see the sense in Matrix stepping back from these issues and releasing games as designers intend them, if this is Matrix's intent.

I don't agree with it but it does cement a definite market positioning for Matrix - ie: a company offering "games of all types for all people". IOW a total opposite to the Avalon Hill philosophy of the "AH Way". I'm just a fan of the latter.



David Heath -> RE: The interface (7/26/2007 12:20:51 PM)

Hi Adam

Matrix has always had the policy of being a publisher and not the final say in what gets done.  We are here to aid our developers and not force them into choices they don't want.  We do give our advice and let our developers know what we will and will not allow but we do that up front.  We have all heard to many horror stories of publishers telling developers how its going to be and destroying what could have been a great game.

David




Adam Parker -> RE: The interface (7/26/2007 2:08:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Heath

Matrix has always had the policy of being a publisher and not the final say in what gets done....


I really didn't know that David. And you do provide for uniformity in the front screens and installers at least and Marc's art touch is always apparent on the "outside".

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Heath

We have all heard to many horror stories of publishers telling developers how its going to be and destroying what could have been a great game.


I'm thinking of one company at least, now gone.





Noakesy -> RE: Par for the Course (7/26/2007 2:32:37 PM)

I think the subject matter and scale looks good, but all I see about this game is complaints about the interface. Are there screen shots or something that show the interface so I can make my own call as to whether it's something I would tolerate or not?

Thanks



Erik Rutins -> RE: Par for the Course (7/26/2007 2:46:01 PM)

Noakesy,

Take a look at the pinned tutorial thread and the gameplay impressions thread.

Regards,

- Erik



Noakesy -> RE: Par for the Course (7/26/2007 3:13:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Noakesy,
Take a look at the pinned tutorial thread and the gameplay impressions thread.
Regards,
- Erik


Ok, got it thanks - I can see what people mean, but might still give it a thrash. Any screen shots that show me what the resolution problems are?



Berkut -> RE: Par for the Course (7/26/2007 6:45:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Noakesy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Noakesy,
Take a look at the pinned tutorial thread and the gameplay impressions thread.
Regards,
- Erik


Ok, got it thanks - I can see what people mean, but might still give it a thrash. Any screen shots that show me what the resolution problems are?


Well, the extent of the "problem" is going to be based on what your native resolution runs at. If you are running 1024x768, there is no problem at all.

Less than that, and the window will take up less screen, and the window is not resizeable, unfortunately.

And don't let the complaints about the interface dissuade you too much. I still think it is pretty poor, but the thing with interface problems is that

A) You get used to it pretty quickly, and
B) The extent that a poor interface is a problem is a function of the complexity of the interface. A complex, poorly implemented interfact is a nightmare. This is a relatively simply interface though.

The impression I have gotten so far is that the complexity of this game is relatively low, in that the number of differnt types of interaction you do is limited in any given screen. Compared to something like WitP or even TOAW, where you can do LOTS of things, and the poor interface in WitP really makes it a struggle. In GoA, there are a lot of differnt commands, but they are divided into phases, so in any given phase, the set of things you can do is relatively limited. That means that the interface, while clunky, doesn't get in the way as much you might expect.



Bossy573 -> RE: The interface (7/27/2007 2:25:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Berkut

Just imagine this thing at 1600x1200, seeing ALL of any given front on the screen at the same time...drool.


The game is just that close to being an all time classic. Gameplay is king, but having the ability to enhance the experience in that way would make it all that much better.



TheHellPatrol -> RE: The interface (7/27/2007 2:32:30 AM)

[8D]Just my 2 cents, the interface does not detract at all from the gameplay or playability. It is very easy to get used to and once this puppy gets polished up it will be a real keeper. A very clever design...i look forward to delving deeper.



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