WITP and me (Full Version)

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darken92 -> WITP and me (8/7/2007 10:37:20 PM)

Not so much thread mentioning how addicted I am but more what I have done since starting this game.

I have been playing for a couple of years and am certainly addicted. WITP is my one vice, luckily Wife (Mark 2) lets me indulge, at least most of the time.

While I have always had an interest in wargming WW2 my reading as been sparce, especially in regards to the Pacific. I now have a small but growing library of books and DVD’s. Playing the game and cruising these threads has given my a new insight into the war.

It is my latest purchase that shows I must be going mad. Corgi have released a model series called Warbirds. I have purchased a model of a Kittyhawk IA as flown by Les Jackson. I also purchased a A6M5 as flown by Sabaro Sakai.

Corgi’s website advises “Corgi Warbirds Series 2 is THE Iconic World War II Aircraft assortment, and a perfect starting point for any youngster’s collection.”

I am of course 40 years old. A second youth perhaps. Would it be foolish of me to mention I intend to collect the lot. I did purchase a model kit of a Corsair and a Spitfire but these eyes are not what they used to be so I am going to turn to the premade models.




wdolson -> RE: WITP and me (8/7/2007 11:08:44 PM)

People a lot older than you collect and build plastic models.  The plastic model business has become quite sophisticated.  Most modelers have a huge collection of unbuilt models.  Mine is around 400.  Almost all WW II subjects.

Die cast has also become popular among those who want the display pieces without having to build them.  Corgi is one of the makers in that market, but there are several others now too.

Bill




Feinder -> RE: WITP and me (8/7/2007 11:14:35 PM)

One of the fun things about being an adult (with a reasonably paying job), is that we can often afford to indulge in those "childhood fantasies" of getting the entire WW2 model collection with the "wouldn't it be awesome" paint to go with it.

It doesn't really matter we're never going to have time to actually put those models together, because we will "someday" [8|].

But yes, it's nice to be able to indulge and "collect the whole set" of whatevers.

-F-




Yamato hugger -> RE: WITP and me (8/8/2007 12:31:47 AM)

I have most of the Europa series (for those of you that dont know what that is, it is WWII in Europe at the Bn, rgt, and div scale - 20 miles to a hex from Murmansk to south of Suez, from Lisbon to the Urals). I layed the maps out once, and it literally papered my floor with it. It started coming out in '73. Always said "someday" on that also

[sm=crazy.gif]




Apollo11 -> RE: WITP and me (8/8/2007 1:06:24 AM)

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

One of the fun things about being an adult (with a reasonably paying job), is that we can often afford to indulge in those "childhood fantasies" of getting the entire WW2 model collection with the "wouldn't it be awesome" paint to go with it.

It doesn't really matter we're never going to have time to actually put those models together, because we will "someday" [8|].

But yes, it's nice to be able to indulge and "collect the whole set" of whatevers.

-F-


I have Tirpitz 1:400 sitting in a box for 20 years waiting to be assembled... I will do it some day... [8D]

But I do have around 50+ diorama (i.e. plastic models assembled and painted by me) in 1:48 scale (WWI, jets) and in 1:72 scale (WWI, WWII) and ships 1:350, 1:400 scale sitting behind glass and regularly dusted off... [:)]


Leo "Apollo11"




BrucePowers -> RE: WITP and me (8/8/2007 2:41:19 AM)

I am painting and assembling 1:1200 Napoleonic ships, 1:2000 Napoleonics and 1:2400 WWII naval miniatures. It's great fun.




tsimmonds -> RE: WITP and me (8/8/2007 3:55:35 AM)

I bet those 1:1200 ratlines are a royal b1tch![;)]




rtrapasso -> RE: WITP and me (8/8/2007 4:24:41 AM)

Probably easier to do than the 1:1200 rats... [:D]




tsimmonds -> RE: WITP and me (8/8/2007 4:27:56 AM)

[:D][:D]we do crack ourselves up, don't we?




Ian R -> RE: WITP and me (8/8/2007 4:30:31 AM)

Hey Yamato

JF Dunnigan said in S&T that getting a game out and studying it was using it the same as playing it was, and to include that time in the S&T feedback responses. Consistently with his view that the games were an extension of the reading to help understand the history.

So you have played it.[8D]




bobogoboom -> RE: WITP and me (8/8/2007 4:48:09 AM)

just by wonder how long on average does it take yall to assemble one of these models?




bradfordkay -> RE: WITP and me (8/8/2007 6:32:31 AM)

When I was a youth, I built my plane and ship models with firecrackers inside them. Once I got tired of looking at the display, outside to the sandbox we went. I'd pour a little extra testor's glue on them, soak some paper airplanes in kerosene, light them amd have them crash kamikaze style into the model being sacrificed... It was a very satisfying method of culling the collection...





ilovestrategy -> RE: WITP and me (8/8/2007 8:27:48 AM)

Hey! I'm 40 and my wife still accuses me of being a little kid [:D]




AU Tiger_MatrixForum -> RE: WITP and me (8/8/2007 8:34:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

One of the fun things about being an adult (with a reasonably paying job), is that we can often afford to indulge in those "childhood fantasies" of getting the entire WW2 model collection with the "wouldn't it be awesome" paint to go with it.

It doesn't really matter we're never going to have time to actually put those models together, because we will "someday" [8|].

But yes, it's nice to be able to indulge and "collect the whole set" of whatevers.

-F-


I have Tirpitz 1:400 sitting in a box for 20 years waiting to be assembled... I will do it some day... [8D]

But I do have around 50+ diorama (i.e. plastic models assembled and painted by me) in 1:48 scale (WWI, jets) and in 1:72 scale (WWI, WWII) and ships 1:350, 1:400 scale sitting behind glass and regularly dusted off... [:)]


Leo "Apollo11"


I have a 1:1 1858 Model .577 British Enfield Rifled Musket. It is loads of fun, until I wake up with a very sore shoulder.
[:'(]




modrow -> RE: WITP and me (8/8/2007 9:19:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

Hey! I'm 40 and my wife still accuses me of being a little kid [:D]

Actually, in my book that's not an accusation - it's a compliment ![8D]




bradfordkay -> RE: WITP and me (8/8/2007 10:13:57 AM)

" I have a 1:1 1858 Model .577 British Enfield Rifled Musket. It is loads of fun, until I wake up with a very sore shoulder."

Hey, AU, are you a member of the NSSA, or a re-enactor?




wdolson -> RE: WITP and me (8/8/2007 11:32:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

just by wonder how long on average does it take yall to assemble one of these models?


Depends a lot on the model and what you want to do with it. A single engine WW II 1/48 scale plane can be done in about 12 hours of work if you do a reasonable job, paint with the airbrush, etc. And the kit doesn't have severe problems that need correcting.

Most of the modern kits fit together far better than the old ones and have a lot more detail. They benefit from CAD design processes and new high pressure molds. Some people still want to guild the lily and will spend two to three times the original cost of the kit in aftermarket parts. Some older kits need them, since they are a bit sparse in detail, but the newer kits rarely need much in the way of extras.

I put together a 1/700 submarine for a retired sailor friend and that probably only took me about 8 hours of total work, including setting up the air brush in the garage, dragging out the air compressor, etc. I hadn't built anything in a while and everything was put away.

Bill




m10bob -> RE: WITP and me (8/8/2007 2:50:41 PM)

The monetary cost of models today is horrendous, but it forces one to take more care of his collection, and for true grognards to appreciate them.

Long live Revell...Monogram...Airfix...Palmer...Tyco...Hawk...Renwal...FROG...Aurora...Tamiya........Hasegawa...Heller....AHM...Pyro...etc.




Tofke -> RE: WITP and me (8/8/2007 4:54:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

just by wonder how long on average does it take yall to assemble one of these models?


for a paperboat that took 2 min

[image]http://guidinguk.freeservers.com/paperboat.gif[/image]

ok that "sucksatable" i go out !








Apollo11 -> RE: WITP and me (8/8/2007 5:00:17 PM)

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

The monetary cost of models today is horrendous, but it forces one to take more care of his collection, and for true grognards to appreciate them.

Long live Revell...Monogram...Airfix...Palmer...Tyco...Hawk...Renwal...FROG...Aurora...Tamiya........Hasegawa...Heller....AHM...Pyro...etc.


You think they are more expensive now than what they wre 10-20 years ago?

BTW, I loved Hasegawa... they had best molds 20 years ago IIRC....


Leo "Apollo11"




Charbroiled -> RE: WITP and me (8/8/2007 6:33:34 PM)

I started a scale model of the USS Constitution before I got married. Had it built up through the hull. Once I got married, funding was diverted. [:(]




witpqs -> RE: WITP and me (8/8/2007 8:22:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

You think they are more expensive now than what they wre 10-20 years ago?



I haven't put together any models since I was a kid, but in recent months/years I've heard about - what else - law suits over models. It seems that some of the companies and their corporate descendants that built the planes (and maybe other equipment too) that are being modeled have gone after the model makers claiming infringement on trademarks and the like. I know Grumman was involved, as were others. Apparently they were looking for serious money. Model makers had to make the choice of hiking prices quite a bit or not building any of those.

The big counter argument of course is that the public paid for the gear with tax money, etc. but who knows exactly what it would hinge on in court. Too bad.

So, without direct knowledge, I have to say they likely are much more expensive than they need to be, and way more than 20 years ago.




TOMLABEL -> RE: WITP and me (8/8/2007 8:52:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

Hey! I'm 40 and my wife still accuses me of being a little kid [:D]



Same here. Especially every time she goes into the closet full of unbuilt kits.

TOMLABEL




wdolson -> RE: WITP and me (8/8/2007 9:20:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

You think they are more expensive now than what they wre 10-20 years ago?



It depends on how you look at it. You get more than you did 20 years ago and currencies have devaluated from inflation.

Ebay is a great leveler. If you shop carefully, you can get up to 50% off new kits there. The online kit retailers have good sales too. I only paid retail for a few kits in my collection. I got some for sweat equity by buying large collections and parting them out. I kept a few I wanted and ended up getting them for free in the end.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
I haven't put together any models since I was a kid, but in recent months/years I've heard about - what else - law suits over models. It seems that some of the companies and their corporate descendants that built the planes (and maybe other equipment too) that are being modeled have gone after the model makers claiming infringement on trademarks and the like. I know Grumman was involved, as were others. Apparently they were looking for serious money. Model makers had to make the choice of hiking prices quite a bit or not building any of those.

The big counter argument of course is that the public paid for the gear with tax money, etc. but who knows exactly what it would hinge on in court. Too bad.

So, without direct knowledge, I have to say they likely are much more expensive than they need to be, and way more than 20 years ago.


This situation is one of the most ridiculous lawsuits you can imagine. The big airplane makers have the money to legistlate the small guys out of business and that's what they will do if the small guys put up much of a fight. Tamiya is the biggest model maker in the world, but they are tiny compared to Boeing.

The model makers have two arguments on their side, but they are only using one. One argument is the one you state here, the military equipment was made with government money on government contracts, so the designs should be public domain. The other argument, which I haven't heard is that these companies sat on any rights they may have had when the first models were made and therefore anything that might have been protected is public domain. The trademark and copyright laws are very clear that to keep your rights, as owner, you need to vigorously pursue anybody who has violated their rights as soon as they become aware of it. If they don't the trademark or other material becomes public domain.

The aircraft makers only started making a fuss a couple of years ago, but the first kits plastic kits came out before World War II and before plastic, there were wood kits. Boeing can lay claim to rights to the 787 because it's new, but I don't even think they could lay claim to a model of a 747 since they didn't make a squawk when the first kit was released in 1969.

The aircraft companies claim that it's liability. If jr chokes on a prop for a B-17, they are afraid of getting sued. My SO is a lawyer and we've talked about this. If Boeing was included in such a lawsuit, they would be out of it in 15 minutes.

I think the real problem is that the aircraft makers are all run by bean counters now who are trying to milk every dime out of every avenue they can. Royalties on plastic models would only ammount to a tiny fraction of the profit on a single airplane, but they see it as some kind of magical revenue stream.

Models always were a fairly small market and it's even smaller today. A huge seller today sells 10,000 copies. Most are only a few thousand. The biggest seller of all time is the Star Trek Enterprise which sold about 1 million over 35 years.

Tamiya is the only company that has caved in so far. Their kits always were among the most expensive, but for the kits where they are paying royalties, the prices are $5 to $20 more. Their 1/32 F-16 kit is $175-$185 retail, depending on the version. I'm sure it's a nice kit, but I won't be buying one. I have read that if they weren't paying a royalty to Lockheed, it would have been around $150. Still pretty expensive, but still a difference of close to 15%.

Bill




Apollo11 -> RE: WITP and me (8/9/2007 12:39:26 AM)

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

You think they are more expensive now than what they wre 10-20 years ago?



I haven't put together any models since I was a kid, but in recent months/years I've heard about - what else - law suits over models. It seems that some of the companies and their corporate descendants that built the planes (and maybe other equipment too) that are being modeled have gone after the model makers claiming infringement on trademarks and the like. I know Grumman was involved, as were others. Apparently they were looking for serious money. Model makers had to make the choice of hiking prices quite a bit or not building any of those.

The big counter argument of course is that the public paid for the gear with tax money, etc. but who knows exactly what it would hinge on in court. Too bad.

So, without direct knowledge, I have to say they likely are much more expensive than they need to be, and way more than 20 years ago.


Ahh... yes... I remember the fuss with Il-2 "Pacific Fighters" where Grumman aircraft had to be withdrawn... what a darm shame to do that in flight simulations and in diorama models... [:(]


Leo "Apollo11"




Grotius -> RE: WITP and me (8/9/2007 2:14:59 AM)

I shouldn't have read this thread, because now I want to try making a model! I suppose a plane would be easier to start with than a ship? Might be fun to try a Zero or a Wildcat. Anyone have suggestions on where to start?

By the way, the only models I've ever made were, indeed, of the Starship Enterprise. I still have one sitting near me here. :)




Feinder -> RE: WITP and me (8/9/2007 3:40:39 AM)

Monogram-Revell-Airfix are the "classic" model kits. Most of the molds are in fact, 40 years old and haven't changed a whit. They actually used to sell a "Battle of Midway" kit, that had a 1:48 Zero and a Wilcat. Usually complexity and detail go hand in hand. Overall, the Monogram-Revell-Airfix kits aren't terribly difficult (so a good idea if you haven't done a kit in years, or never), but they may not be as accurate to the freakishly purists. But they make for good overall kits.

Next tier are Hasegawa and Tamiya. They're a little more expensive, but have a better variety of kits, and you can often get the specific varients (so you could find a kit of Bf-109E, Bf-109G2, etc). Personally, these are the ones I prefer.

In "most" cases, you get what you pay for. But not necessarily. Monogram/Revell-Airfix aren't terribly expensive, and provide a quality (if not for purists) kits. You pay more for Hasegawa and Tamiya, but they're better kits. But some of the many import brands you pay more, for utter crap. There is a Czech company and Russian one that utterly suck (I bought a few kits from them, the molds just didn't fit right, very little surface details (altho the models were large enough that they SHOULD have). I ended just chucking them.

-F-




FeurerKrieg -> RE: WITP and me (8/9/2007 10:01:20 AM)

I'm with all you modeling guys. I have the money to buy models I could never afford as a kid. As usual though, no time to build them. Nor space for that matter.

I'm waiting for the first kid to move out so I can turn their room into a WWII model building room.

I was reading some iteresting stuff the other day on ways to make realistic looking water to mount your ships in. It is pretty neat how 'real' people can make scale stuff look these days.

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/tnt1/001-100/TNT067_making-water_Geraths/tnt067.htm

[image]http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/tnt1/001-100/TNT067_making-water_Geraths/images/Ill23.jpg[/image]





Apollo11 -> RE: WITP and me (8/9/2007 10:16:56 AM)

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

I'm with all you modeling guys. I have the money to buy models I could never afford as a kid. As usual though, no time to build them. Nor space for that matter.

I'm waiting for the first kid to move out so I can turn their room into a WWII model building room.

I was reading some iteresting stuff the other day on ways to make realistic looking water to mount your ships in. It is pretty neat how 'real' people can make scale stuff look these days.

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/tnt1/001-100/TNT067_making-water_Geraths/tnt067.htm

[image]http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/tnt1/001-100/TNT067_making-water_Geraths/images/Ill23.jpg[/image]


WOW!!! [X(]

This is relly spectacular (and the paint job on the model itself is top notch with "wear & tear")!


Leo "Apollo11"




FeurerKrieg -> RE: WITP and me (8/9/2007 10:44:24 AM)

There is a nice article elsewhere on the site about using salt spray and rinse method to create realistic looking wear and tear.

Lots of good stuff there if you poke around.




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