Weather? (Full Version)

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targul -> Weather? (8/26/2007 4:03:28 AM)

You invade Holland in winter, you invade Beligum in winter. Doesnt matter there is no such thing in the west as bad weather it is always good. Then you finish France 40 April May and off you go to Russia.

You get set up and ready in winter 40 maybe early 41 and hehe the Russian dont have weather in those months in early 41 either.

Game is just lost in extremely poor development. Eachtime you go to another area you find this game has more and more faults.

It has only two things that are good. Hexes and turn based. All other factors need work and lots of it.

Well since it is not based on WWII only on balance guess you couldnt really balance weather since it is random so out it went with everything else.



firepowerjohan -> RE: Weather? (8/26/2007 12:58:21 PM)

What score (out of 100) would you give CEaW in a review Targul?

Trying to see how much opinions vary and what your opinion represents. We cannot please all so if you feel CEaW does not suit your style of play or your realism then you should pick some other game since CEaW will not drastically change in the months to come.

Reviewers have given the game around 80%
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1520773

Ppl have given it typically 4 out of 5 on this forum
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1522240






Dave Ferguson -> RE: Weather? (8/26/2007 2:29:51 PM)

Actually talking about weather!

Winter months north europe

1. 50% die roll = storm weather - each turn
2. in storm weather no naval landings allowed except at friendly port
3. in storm weather no attack or defence air missions including carriers
4. In storm weather attacker values halved.

etc etc



jon_j_rambo -> RE: Weather? (8/26/2007 3:05:36 PM)

Weather works just fine in CEAW.  I don't know what this is all about.  You could make Hurricanes, Tornados, & add the Bermuda Triangle if you want.  I totally discount 95% of Targuls rants.  I'm sure he thinks a few snowflakes will stop Germany from snowblowing the pro-Nazi Low Countries. 

-Legend



Major Victory -> RE: Weather? (8/26/2007 3:27:31 PM)

Considering there is no weather system in the game (russian winter exception), how can you say it works fine? have you played the game yet.



jon_j_rambo -> RE: Weather? (8/26/2007 3:53:12 PM)

@MajorVictory --- Can you make a shoe stink?  USSR winter effect is what it's all about.  It can bring you to a halt & movements are screwed for months.  That's more than enough weather for me.  I could careless about a few sprinkles of rain or clouds.  I'm coming from a SC/SC-2 backround, and I can not stand those stupid "mud turns".  The entire map is mud, makes no sense.  I don't have time for editors & comparing weather charts with some kid who thinks he's a gamer.  You want to talk history?  Lets.  Historically, the only weather that mattered in WW-2 was Russia.  Yeah, there was some flakes in the Bulge & stopped the D-Day landings by a week, that's good enough for me.  I HATE a game that is dominated by LUCK.  Weather is luck, well, unless you want to bring the Lord into it, but I'd rather not.  CEAW has the Russian winter effect, which works well.  I am all about kickin' butt, taking names, that's just my style.  That's who I am.  Yeah, I new onboard.  I did have a limited look at this game awhile back, but I am too busy making jack on the stock market, etc.  A game either is fun, or it's not.  A game either has playability or it doesn't.  CEAW does. 

-Legend
-The American Dream
-Captain of Team USA      

  




Major Victory -> RE: Weather? (8/26/2007 4:14:23 PM)

@Rambo, if you think weather has no place in WW2, perhaps you should stick to "playing the stock market" instead. Historically speaking, weather played a major role, not just in land combat, but air campaigns the most (they did not have all-weather 24/7 combat aircraft in WW2!). Most operations were also timed intentionally and launched based on weather (good or bad).

Weather is reality, not luck!



Dave Ferguson -> RE: Weather? (8/26/2007 4:44:26 PM)

The russian weather effect does not work well is CEAW anyway. It is a one-off decrease in effectiveness. The uber panzers with their mega commanders are back up to full effectiveness in 2-3 turns. So the russian weather effect only lasts a month or so!

Weather is IMPORTANT in WW2 the german invasion of the low countries in 1939 was delayed several times because of bad weather, this is history. D-Day was in summer, not January.

Also important was the days were shorter in winter, up to half as much daylight in a time where no-one had night sights or vision goggles. OK there was fighting at night but overall less time to do stuff. This made it even easier to defend as you has more time to move reserves etc without interference from enemy air.

Check out the Italian campaign if you do not believe weather has any effect on operations.

dave



targul -> RE: Weather? (8/26/2007 6:37:18 PM)

I would rate it about 55%. Flaws are obvious and many but game mechanics are good. Game had great potential but objective of balance verses correctness I believe will eventually move game to oblivion.



firepowerjohan -> RE: Weather? (8/26/2007 6:57:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: targul

I would rate it about 55%. Flaws are obvious and many but game mechanics are good. Game had great potential but objective of balance verses correctness I believe will eventually move game to oblivion.


Ok, then I see your angle and can take your comments in perspective also. In reviews game has gotten 80% somewhere and in the topic on this forum a vast majority rated the game as 4 out of 5. If you think the game is mediocre 55% now then you will definately not like it one year from now either since the game will not be that dramatically different.

We have never said we disregard history but rather that we do not want to turn the game too much historical if that limits playability. There is a balance somewhere and a trade off, turning the game 100% historical would make it more difficult, take longer time to play and will make it harder to play a balanced game due to historical constraints. We will not reshape the game for those who do not like the game and turn it into something it was never meant.

If you like more complex and advanced rules and thicker rule book then there are other games for you (like SC2 or HOI2) so no one is forcing you to play a game you rate as 55%.



Irish Guards -> RE: Weather? (8/26/2007 7:45:48 PM)

The Swine Rambo appears with his usual moronic crap .. weather no factor eh ... [X(]
Major Victory is more than correct when he says that historically weather played a huge roll in what you can or can't do .. Its called limitations .. And wee all know Rambo hates those eh ...
Play A and A Rambo .. no weather no limitations ... [&o]

Invasions in winter .. np
Spotting units and upgrades in Severe Russian Winter .. np
Roll through the Low Countries .. np

I think a way to balance the game is very easy ... And historically accurate ...
Then again the unbalanced twits nay like that ... wonder why ...
Because they Nay actual Wargamers ...[:'(]
Irish Guards



jon_j_rambo -> RE: Weather? (8/26/2007 9:18:45 PM)

@IrishGuards --- Hi sweetheart, how are you?  Want to give me a hug & a kiss? 



Major Victory -> RE: Weather? (8/26/2007 9:27:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jon_j_rambo

@IrishGuards --- Hi sweetheart, how are you?  Want to give me a hug & a kiss? 


Rambo, this is a wargaming forum, I think you should save your comments for a "Gay Chat Room" instead. Do you ever post anything intelligent or just mindless, insulting lango?



jon_j_rambo -> RE: Weather? (8/26/2007 9:30:00 PM)

@Major BS --- Pal, I've been around the block.  I haven't seen IrishGuards for years, so I was greeting him.  Mind your business.   



Major Victory -> RE: Weather? (8/26/2007 9:57:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jon_j_rambo

@Major BS --- Pal, I've been around the block.  I haven't seen IrishGuards for years, so I was greeting him.  Mind your business.   


Its a public forum moron, if you don't want people commenting on your posts, send him a private email.



targul -> RE: Weather? (8/26/2007 10:07:55 PM)

Well you are correct "firepower" SC2 and HOI2 are significantly better games. They need not be better if it was understood that this game can have some historical basis while still maintaining your almighty balance.

Presently it is missing so many factors it does not represent WWII in anyway. You have mentioned many times that you do not care what the customers may want as you just did again. (We will not reshape the game for those who do not like the game) This certainly limits your ability to make it accurate, fun and balanced. It also limits your future sales of other similiar products since we must somehow guess what you are going to do and when you do it wrong you will knowingly refuse to correct it.

Firepower "If you think the game is mediocre 55% now then you will definately not like it one year" Again you misunderstand 55% means it is 5% better then most other playable games. That is actually a fairly good rating. But if you really want ratings I shall provide them.

PBEM 5% Barely playable worst in industry
IP 95% Solid connections with good feedback
AI 85% Good AI except in Africa
Historical accuacy 20% Hardly anything that relates to WWII
Unit performance 90% If carriers where not so unbalanced units would seem very accurate.
Playability 95% Very playable hardly any areas difficult to understand if any

As to playing this game in a year I doubt your 80% will be playing it. There are many ways to assure they do but you need to focus on customer service not your personal opinion. Should this happen you will have tremendous loyalty and many will not even consider to buy a new product or not they will simply say oh from them certainly. That is why I bought this game. I thought it was by Matrix and I own almost all the Matrix games. They have a good reputation for creating a solid product and maintain it.

You also have a good product but you are still new, to me anyway, so I need to be shown you will be doing good work to make this one correct and work. If I find that to be true then I would be purchasing your products without much concern also.



YohanTM2 -> RE: Weather? (8/26/2007 10:29:56 PM)

I do agree with some of Targuls comments but must completely disagree that SC2 and HOI2 are better games. SC was great but SC2 just did not make it.

This game has the best game engine I have seen in a while for the level of play it aims for, but it is not WiF (which is taking years to develop even with a great developer and major input from the WiF community).

Some things need to be fixed and some were so glaring it is clear they were either not properly playtested or just left for patch 1. I hold great hope most will be addressed in the next few patches. At that point I will develop a MOD with a few others I am in discussions with and I think the game will be great.



YohanTM2 -> RE: Weather? (8/26/2007 10:31:39 PM)

Oh great, Tambo is here. (spelling correct, you figure it out).

Tambo, back to your sub prime market investments, hope your trailer makes it through the next tornado.



Irish Guards -> RE: Weather? (8/26/2007 11:04:27 PM)

LMAO .... [8|]
IG



Bossy573 -> RE: Weather? (8/27/2007 2:16:07 AM)

IMHO, the weather in CEAW works pretty well. Russia should be the only region in a game of this scope that has severe weather effects. The primitive road and rail network there demands it. Western Europe is a different matter and "die roll" weather effects could be applied to air power or naval assets, amphib. landings, etc., but the weather should not significantly alter ground operations. This is a huge problem with SC2 which applies "weather" on a map-wide basis. CEAW does weather better.



Bossy573 -> RE: Weather? (8/27/2007 2:17:02 AM)

*Double Post* [:D]



SMK-at-work -> RE: Weather? (8/27/2007 2:47:08 AM)

I believe mud in France in late 44 was a major contributor to slowing down the allied advance.



Bossy573 -> RE: Weather? (8/27/2007 2:49:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

I believe mud in France in late 44 was a major contributor to slowing down the allied advance.


Or was it Monty's little trip to Holland, Ike's "broad front," and the subsequent starvation of Patton's oil and ammo supplies?



SMK-at-work -> RE: Weather? (8/27/2007 3:32:05 AM)

the mud came after Market Garden, in October, and would have affected the allies regardless of anything else.



VonManteuffel -> RE: Weather? (8/27/2007 7:47:13 AM)

The lack of weather is ideed a problem, though I do enjoy the game.

Take the winter war for example; the defender had a much larger advantage in winter than they did in fair weather. The Ardennes offensive is a reverse example, where air was grounded, allowing some advances that would have been impossible otherwise. Launching a D-Day invasion in the dead of winter? Suicide.

Weather is only modeled when you cross the Russian border, but weather does not recognize lines on the map. Weather and terrain give character to military history, so when you leave that out of a game, there is a risk that it can become a vanilla dice-rolling affair like Axis & Allies.

Anyway, the game is fun, but weather would make it more fun.




Dave Ferguson -> RE: Weather? (8/27/2007 11:26:52 AM)

But firepowerjohan says they arnt going to be implementing any global weather effects which i read as meaning forget it!
The problem is these game enhancements do not need to be compulsory parts of the game. There are 6 spare option boxes available and they should be used.
Meanwhile the only alternative is a house rule.



targul -> RE: Weather? (8/27/2007 9:26:26 PM)

Game is good but I am really tiring of this we are not going to do that we cant do that idea.  These guys seems very unwilling to do anything asked for.  They seem to have some predetermined agenda.  Hopefully someone is in charge at that company who really wants to be successful and they stop this constant negative talk.

Instead of constantly saying we are not going to do things I would prefer there saying that is a good idea which we will examine but they seem to not even consider suggestions prior to saying we are not going to do that.




jon_j_rambo -> RE: Weather? (8/27/2007 10:40:18 PM)

What I'm really tired of (in such a short time here), is hearing Targul complain like a little beeotch.  Sounds like some alternative motive to me.  Targul, you want people to tell you what you want to hear, rather than the truth.  Remember this story. 

Man says I'll do it, but never does.
Man says he won't, but later does.

Relax, quit nagging for little things, this game is new to me & I like it.  Don't push buttons.  And surely, think before you type!

-Legend



Bossy573 -> RE: Weather? (8/28/2007 3:29:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yohan

This game has the best game engine I have seen in a while for the level of play it aims for, but it is not WiF (which is taking years to develop even with a great developer and major input from the WiF community).


I guess the other option is modding the game. It is so new that I haven't bothered to check whether anyone has started putting their own touches on the game.



targul -> RE: Weather? (8/28/2007 3:48:47 AM)

Not sure you can mod in weather Boss but there are some mods out there.  Dave made one which is very good.  A few too many units but overall it gives you a great AI game and even activates the African area. 



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