OOB bugs here (Full Version)

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Paul Vebber -> OOB bugs here (9/9/2000 11:16:00 PM)

The current unit and wepaon slots are locked, we can add more, but won't move any of the ones from where they are now. Errors can be corrected and if empty slots are avialable things addd. The OOB task remaining is fully integrating the new unit classes into the Formation structures. So suggestions can be posted here. and will be handled by an "OOB focus group". I will be opening a private forum for those interested in helping...so email me your user name if you want to be considered for inclusion in the group. I also want to thank ASDN whose file utilities made OOB consolidation MUCH easier - THANK YOU!!!



cjpaul -> (9/10/2000 6:21:00 AM)

Paul: I've downloaded v4 and tried it out. I like it. I've noticed that the German Pzb-39 AT and the British Boys AT rifles sound like machine guns when firing. Is there a sound file that is unique for them? I've noticed that every ATR has a warhead of size 1. They are in weapon slots: 88,133,134,135,136,142,143, and 228 depending on the nation. After editing all of the ATRs in the OOBs, I found it to be very repetitive. Is it possible to have a single large weapons OOB that all of the formation OOBs could reference? [This message has been edited by cjpaul (edited September 10, 2000).] [This message has been edited by cjpaul (edited September 10, 2000).]



Paul Vebber -> (9/10/2000 7:24:00 AM)

NO I screwed up and reduced their warhead size and now the game thinks they are small arms - For now increase teh warhead size back to 2...I will fix the sound in the next OOB update...



Supervisor -> (9/10/2000 7:36:00 AM)

Paul, if you are happy with the lowered warhead size, we can always make a specific sound effect for them... ------------------ Jon Johnson Audio/Video Productions Matrix Games



Paul Vebber -> (9/10/2000 8:45:00 AM)

See if you have something that is appropriate for an ATR...It might be worthwhile anyway :-)



KGzim -> (9/10/2000 10:42:00 AM)

Hello; Ref: US Rifle Co. Dec 44 The OOB that is in the game is a little wrong for this time frame. I have posted what a Rifle Co. TO&E should be. Iam currently working on a Historical scenario that deals with K Co.110 Inf.Rgt 17 Dec 44 and I have researched the Rifle Co. TO&E to death. This is what I have come up with and it is quite sound.  Rifle Company  Company Headquarters  Captain, Company Commander, M1 carbine  First Lieutenant, EO, M1 carbine  First Sergeant, M1 carbine  Sergeant, Communications, M1 carbine  Sergeant, Mess, M1 rifle  Sergeant, Supply, M1 rifle  Corporal, Company Clerk, M1 rifle  PFC, Weapon-repair, M1 rifle  Bugler, M1 carbine  4 Messengers, M1 rifles  4 Cooks, M1 rifles  3 Cook's Helpers, M1 rifles  Orderly, M1 rifle  5 Bazookas (to be distributed to platoons)  Weapons Platoon  Platoon Headquarters  First Lieutenant, Platoon Commander, M1 carbine  Sergeant, Platoon Sergeant, M1 carbine  2 Jeep Drivers, M1 rifles  2 Messengers, M1 rifles  Jeep with .50 cal machine gun and 1/4 ton trailer  Jeep with 1/4 ton trailer  60 mm Mortar Section  Section Headquarters  Sergeant, Section Leader, M1 rifle  Messenger, M1 rifle  2 Privates, M1 rifles  Mortar Squad  Corporal, Gunner, Colt Automatic pistol  Assistant Gunner, Colt Automatic pistol  3 Ammunition Bearers, M1 carbines  60 mm Mortar  Mortar Squad (same as above)  Mortar Squad (same as above)  Light Machine Gun Section  Section Headquarters  Sergeant, Section Leader, M1 rifle  Messenger, M1 rifle  2 Privates, M1 rifles  Light Machine Gun Squad  Corporal, Squad Leader, M1 carbine  Machine Gunner, Colt Automatic pistol  Assistant Machine Gunner, Colt Automatic pistol  2 Ammunition bearers, M1 carbines  .30 cal Machine Gun  Light Machine Gun Squad (same as above)  Rifle Platoon  Platoon Headquarters  Second Lieutenant, Platoon Commander, M1 carbine  First Sergeant, Platoon Sergeant, M1 rifle  Staff Sergeant, Guide, sniping rifle  2 Messengers, M1 rifles  Rifle Squad  Staff Sergeant, Squad Leader, M1 rifle  Sergeant, Assistant Squad Leader, M1 rifle  Automatic Rifleman, Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR)  Assistant Automatic Rifleman, M1 rifle  Ammunition bearer, M1 rifle  7 Riflemen, M1 rifles  Rifle Squad (same as above)  Rifle Squad (same as above)  Rifle Platoon (same as above)  Rifle Platoon (same as above)



crazyivan -> (9/10/2000 11:59:00 AM)

Pual first and formost thank you all for a top game man the new terian is awesome not to mention the new features. in the oob weapons editor under germany i noticed a lot of weapons 37mm etc have 0 for there sound unlike others that have numbers ie 345 or 584 etc does this effect the sound or not.i did have very little sound at the start updating from 2.3 to 4 but did a complete install from 2 right through to 4 and so far so good all sounds including musice i have tried work.



Supervisor -> (9/10/2000 12:15:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Vebber: See if you have something that is appropriate for an ATR...It might be worthwhile anyway :-)
Ok, I'll find something suitable... ------------------ Jon Johnson Audio/Video Productions Matrix Games



Bonzo -> (9/10/2000 12:26:00 PM)

Wasn't there a scene in "Winter War" where an ATR is being fired? The one where the gunner gets a bit "toasted"? Bonzo ------------------ Robert (Bonzo) Lindsay, Coordinator 28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters http://dreadnaught.home.icq.com [email]nwbattalion@icqmail.com[/email]



Paul Vebber -> (9/10/2000 12:33:00 PM)

If the sound is 0 it measn to use the defualt for the characteristics. THe numbers aare used to "override" that with a different sound.



Wallymanowar -> (9/10/2000 9:58:00 PM)

I'm glad you're work on the OOB's is still ongoing, I was a little disconcerted when I opened the German OOB and saw that very few of the new unit types were applied to them. I did an extensive modification of that one to suit myself, for the long campaign. If you like, I can send it to you to use as you see fit. I also noticed the odd sound effect for the ATR's. Until I read the above posts, I thought it might have been deliberate. It might be appropriate for the Lahti, the Solothurn, and the Japanese Type 97, as they were capable of automatic fire, but the others were bolt-action rifles so maybe the sound of the sniper rifle would be fitting for them. Thx, ------------------ 'Bitter Mike'



Mac_MatrixForum -> (9/11/2000 1:23:00 AM)

Just a little thing... The German OOB has wrong picture for the Daimler-Benz G5, it's some kind of a gun. Tt would be more useful if people would check whole OOBs instead of reporting every single flaw with a separate post, right? It seems that many LBM pictures are incorrect. Are you going to go through all the OOBs looking for these/should these be reported? ------------------ Markku "Mac" Rontu "Understanding is a three-edged sword, your side, their side and the truth." - Sheridan in B5



Paul Vebber -> (9/11/2000 3:11:00 AM)

A seperate group is being set up to review things like LBM's and icons - you can post them here if desired.



illo -> (9/11/2000 4:10:00 AM)

Germans dont seem to have Command Vehicle in battles. Nor command halftrack or single truck. There is one HQ vehicle which can carry 2 men, but its not useful for 6 man HQ squad. Also Finnish Stug IIIg(40) has speed of 15 and german Stug IIIg has speed over 20 so there must be an error, those are the same vehicle. ---------------------------------------------------------- ps. I would recommend to replace FW190A-1 with FW190A-4 as it saw much wider service in all fronts. It was first common version of FW-190. Only major difference is weapons and ammoload. In service july 1942-end 1944 FW190A-4 2xMG17 (SP ammo 20) 2xMG151/20 (10) 2xMG/FF (10) 1x250kg bomb A4 being replaced by A8 in early 1944 FW-190A-8 2xMG131 (10) 4xMG151/20 (10) 1x500kg bomb [This message has been edited by illo (edited September 10, 2000).]



Elvis -> (9/11/2000 6:09:00 AM)

Just a couple of small ones that I've noticed... In the German OOB: The coaxial MG in the Pz-IIIh is listed as an "MG-37" vice "MG-34" Captured AFV platoons (T-34, R-35) still list the vehicles in them as "Airborne AFVs" ------------------ alea iacta est [email]sooperduk@hotmail.com[/email]



Mac_MatrixForum -> (9/11/2000 10:48:00 PM)

The Imp. Sniper in the Finnish OOB has the Lahti but has only HE ammo... should propably have AP ammo instead. ------------------ Markku "Mac" Rontu "Understanding is a three-edged sword, your side, their side and the truth." - Sheridan in B5 [This message has been edited by Mac (edited September 11, 2000).]



Kharan -> (9/11/2000 11:51:00 PM)

I went through the encyclopedia quickly and here's what I noticed. Wrong pictures: M4a3e2 Jumbo M4a3e2 Jumbo 76 Stuart VI 122mm FH (russian) 122mm FH Bty (russian) 122mm G 38 Bty (nationalist China) Messy pictures: YAG-6 (russian) Ammo carrier (russian) There's alot of "" marks on some of the names. Väinämöinen/Ilmarinen's secondary guns were all 105mm, not 100mm. Those responsible for the Finnish OOB could go through the leader names and eliminate some that sound more like Libyan. (Jackzell, Harvi, Wiik, Vadonen, Horelli, Guistio, Wadolin, Jenetz, Genemaki etc.) On second thought, Harvi should be changed to Nirvi. [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] [This message has been edited by Kharan (edited September 15, 2000).]



fdlu -> (9/12/2000 1:16:00 AM)

Still no text files displayed in encyclopedia. see manual page 47 encyclopedia changes. haven´t seen fortifications listed.



Charles22 -> (9/12/2000 8:06:00 PM)

Please forgive me if the following has already been mentioned, but I have a hard time reading OOB threads. Anyway, the problems. 1. I'm very familiar with German OOBs, in fact I'm very familiar with them over the span of numerous games, not just SP. In any event, v4.0 seems to have shifted common sizes for German vehicles. I don't know about any other vehicles, as I don't have quite the attention to those, while other players of course do. In any event, the problem is that many if not all German vehicles have shrunk. For example, the Tiger, with it's general '5' size, is now '4'. Going through the encyclopedia, you will find that many if not all of the Gerry TDs are size '2'. Many of the halftrack/armored car classes are down to size '1'. What's more, when going through HTs, some have larger guns but have size '1', while some with smaller guns are size '2' or '3' (don't let this get you mixed up into thinking I'm talking about gun size, rather it is vehicle size as a whole; the gun does play a part though). It would appear as though all or most German vehicles have shrunk one size. Perhaps some of the TDs deserve a '2', but not ALL of the vehicles shrinking a notch. I'm not sure what the Sturmtiger size was before, but given that it's on a Tiger chassis, it should be the same as the Tiger, relatively. The Tiger 'before' was size '5', while 'now' the Tiger is a '4', but if I'm not mistaken, the Sturmtiger is now a '3'. 2. Perhaps this isn't a flaw, but it's so obviously different from version 2.3. That is, that mg ranges are varying for the same gun. Note the 1st mg on the PZ38T with the range which I believe is 20. Now note how the PZIVC has it's 1st and only mg as range 25. I understand a BMG gun of the same size being restricted, but this is the first time I've seen a noticeable difference between TMGs. BTW, just what is a CMG (Central machinegun?)? Thanks.



Nikademus -> (9/12/2000 8:18:00 PM)

I've noticed that most variant's of the Sherman have really mild slope factors for the front armor, on the order of around 35 degrees. If memory serves the slope was much steeper at around 53 degree, later reduced to around 46 in the M4e8 Is this to represent the cast hulled Sherman's? I know they tended to have somewhat inferior armor characterisitics and the rounded lower hull was a detriment to the slope effects. Also seeing alot of variation there between the allies for the same marks of the M4. Still seeing variations for front turret on the Pz-V. I can live with the Pz-VIe front turret rating (big grin) hee hee Pz-IV slope factor seems to be using the superstructure slope factor (which i prefer!) while Pz-III seems to be using the lower hull slope factor thereby getting a bit of a bonus. thats all for the moment. Have unfort only had precious little time to look over the new version (curses!!! > [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/frown.gif[/img] ) but overall its looking VERY impressive



headhunter -> (9/12/2000 8:40:00 PM)

To Charles: Just guessing, but CMG = Cupola Machine Gun (?)



TheOriginalOverlord -> (9/12/2000 9:22:00 PM)

Charles22, I think it is Co-axial Machine Gun (CMG). (That's the one next to the Main gun in the turret) I know most of you know that but just in case someone didn't [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Semper Fi, ------------------ Semper Fi! Overlord



Leonidas -> (9/12/2000 9:29:00 PM)

there is something wrong with the KV1 Flame tank. It has 100 FlameShots available. I do not know if this is right, but i thing it isn't. m



Paul Vebber -> (9/12/2000 9:48:00 PM)

Sizes were in general reduced in general deliberately. Some may be mistyped. Most everyting was reduced by 1. I reduced the size of non-turreted things by one compared to turreted thing by 1 - often this was done based on "unit class" through a spreadsheet, so things with a "odd' unit class assingment for OB purposes may have been skewed a bit - that is likley what happend with the HT's as many are "weird" unit types like SP-ATGM. MG ranges are distint by type, Coax and Turret types have longer ranges, then AAMGs, then Bow. That is intentional. SOme may have gotten mixed up... FOr "popular" tansk I tried to refelct some things like the "round nose" of the cast hull, the fact that often times they had lots of "stuff" on them that slightly increases thickness but effectively reduces slope, etc. There are so many Sherman idiosyncricies that geting them all reflected properly is about impossible. A compromise with the Tiger front turret - based on some results in Jentz book. I know we didn't do such a thing for all tanks, but the Tiger seemed to warrent "special case" status... One model Panther is given a penalty becasue of a common shot trap...I forget which one.



Paul Vebber -> (9/12/2000 9:54:00 PM)

Also - we are looking for someone familiar with OOB editing to take the reigns of future OOB edits. Anyone interested drop me an email. I was going to move the mailing list to a forum, but got several requests to keep it as email form folks overseas who pay by the minute and find email cheaper and more convenient. SO drop me a line if you are interested in thei prestigious volunteer position. There are quite a few folks chaffing at the bit to help out, but we need a point man to consolidate and check change proposals and send them in for "officialization".



Charles22 -> (9/12/2000 10:18:00 PM)

Paul: Thanks for the clarification on the issues I posted. I rather thought that something as sweeping as the size change, if indeed it affected more than just a German OOB oversight, would have been relfected as a mention in the changes instigated with this version; I'm sure it'll play out fine. One last thing. I usually refer to the TMG as the 'turret machinegun', but isn't this term being intermingled with the CMG term? I'm sorry, but it confuses me when I see it so commonly referred to as TMG, and then, if indeed it is the same thing, that people will call it a CMG. When I hear CMG, particularly in the same game, I'm thinking it must be something different. I like the PZIVC having a longer range on the MG, as it's one more reason to buy it, but I just want to make sure that such a seeming snafu wasn't a mistake, but more in the order of an enhancement. Certainly a BMG would have limited range for it's being positioned so low. The infantry losses are definitely higher in this game from main gun fire, than they were before. Now maybe people will more seriously consider purchasing those PZIVCs (which has AP shot anyway) and SGIIBs.



Paul Vebber -> (9/12/2000 10:50:00 PM)

I try to use "TMG" if teh MG is teh only turret weapon (ie PzI) CMG if it is secondary to a main gun. I just didn't have time to document fully all teh changes yet... IN a nutshell: Weapons: Weapon accuracy was increased a lot, HE kill of larger warheads increased, penetration in general reduced. Units: Speeds increased (but breakdowns ata high speeds will getcha), size reduced, added "targeting mod" to help better distinguish SP-AT guns, Assault guns, "poor" tanks (either by turret slow, lack of turret manning or both), FC and RF adjustments, size reduced, ROF adjustments, SOme armor tweaks. Formations - added 2nd line infantry, onboard Rockets for scenario designers (set date to 12/49) There is still a lot of room for enhancing the OOBs, but I must move on to work another game...You interested Charles// [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]



Nikademus -> (9/12/2000 11:03:00 PM)

thanks for the quick replies Paul! any feedback though on the Pz-III/ Pz-IV 'hull' slope issue? Personally (2.2cents worth) figured that using superstructure armor and slope was better than lower hull. Leonidias; actually i'm hoping its not a typo! [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] as i'd been one of those suggesting that flame tanks needed to have their flamethrower ammo vastly increased, given that the 'average' Flame shot does not produce devastating results. i always found it frustrating having to ultra conserve the limited 'shots' avail to flame tanks in intense assault type scenerios. So many tasks, so few shots!



Charles22 -> (9/13/2000 12:09:00 AM)

Paul: Yes, I thought you might have been hinting me earlier. Sorry, though, I'm not the best typer in the world, nor do I notice much beyond the Gerry OOBs (except when the Ruskies start getting out of line). As well, I don't have that much time to play it (mostly on the weekend) anyway. I might be something of a help regarding Gerry stuff, but even there I'm sure there are those who have more knowledge. Given my minimal Gerry knowledge, it's my hope to contribute some things that remain a bit hidden on them, and hope that those with knowledge on the Soviets/Americans/Brits, can do the same. I did notice some of the speed differences and so forth, or at least thought I did. When there's so many changes, it's easy to think that you're imagining things sometimes. Yes, I did figure, assuming we were working on some of the formulas of old that I've seen, that indeed the mere act of reducing vehicle size would amount to more lethal hits, but also should make fire more inaccurate. Can you imagine Paul? Imagine, one day, we will no longer have tanks 'sizes', but one day we will actually have REAL tank dimensions to act as the targets. Won't that be something, none of this semi-generic stuff? Surely, gun fire must've been modeled that way at one time (An 88 being represented as a 5 damage level, while a 75 would giving a 4). It's destiny, one day we will have REAL tank dimensions modeled.



headhunter -> (9/13/2000 2:38:00 PM)

A short one: The 28mm FJ AT in the german OOB has no ammo.



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