RE: the Struggle for India

RE: the Struggle for India (Full Version)

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jumper -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/19/2007 1:33:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner what's the point of abbandoning a game in Feb 42 when you're rolling all over the Pacific?[&:] Maybe he wants to quit now with some strange excuse of "not having fun playing japanese" when he is still rolling all around then 2 months later when he is being rolled all around and having no excuse for quiting..

Gen.Hoepner -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/19/2007 1:44:11 PM)
Hi all, I really hope he won't quit...i'm really enjoying this match...it's thrilling and it poses problems that i never faced, so it's kind of a constant news for me...so let's hope he will continue... He says that this weekend he will tell me something about...let's just wait and cross the fingers...

Elladan -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/19/2007 2:13:48 PM)
Ave General, Don't want to put your hopes down but even if he resumes now (which I think he will do) he's not going to play after he meets some stiff resistance at Karachi/Bombay and is caught with his pants down in Marshalls area. I have seen this behaviour too many times, blaming game engine and opponent for own strategic failures. As for your strategic situation, Japanese have of course initiative so early in the war, but I doubt he's using it effectively. The shortest and most effective way to Japan goes through Pacific and he seems to not care about this. His fault. It will be interesting to see how it comes out :) Have a good war General Elladan

Gen.Hoepner -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/19/2007 2:32:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elladan Ave General, Don't want to put your hopes down but even if he resumes now (which I think he will do) he's not going to play after he meets some stiff resistance at Karachi/Bombay and is caught with his pants down in Marshalls area. I have seen this behaviour too many times, blaming game engine and opponent for own strategic failures. As for your strategic situation, Japanese have of course initiative so early in the war, but I doubt he's using it effectively. The shortest and most effective way to Japan goes through Pacific and he seems to not care about this. His fault. It will be interesting to see how it comes out :) Have a good war General Elladan Hi Elldan the pacific way is surely an easy one for Japan but there are 2 main flaws in it: if the allies play a Sir Robin, Japan won't be able to get enough points for an autovictory in 1.1.43. Secondly, India, if left untouched, will give serious troubles to Japan in Burma early in the game. From the big bases in Bangladesh the allies can bomb the hell out of Burma and soon start a land offensive there. Where he's making a mistake (imho) is not to have left anything in the pacific. A division, a BB formation and the baby KB, along with some serious air assets, will provide enough power to threat any early american counteroffensive. While it seems that he simply brought everything in India, including those units that should be used in the pacific imho (S.S.D., 35th and 65th Bdes etc...). However he keeps on saying that every allied opponent he faced has quitted before summer 42....so let's see if he'd like to face a non-quitter allied player[;)]

Elladan -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/19/2007 2:38:59 PM)
quote: However he keeps on saying that every allied opponent he faced has quitted before summer 42....so let's see if he'd like to face a non-quitter allied player Ah, so this is his strategy, impressive. I'm not advocating leaving India unchallenged, that is very nice for Allied player as he can prepare some serious forces for Burma theatre then. But an all-out attack in one direction is very seldom a good move. As for auto-victory, I don't care about it in my games, it's borked in stock and even more uncalibrated in mods.

mlees -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/19/2007 5:42:04 PM)
In Trollelite's sister thread, he mentions that some air unit of his did not launch against a ship/TF of yours that got spotted. He saw that as evidence of how the game is tilted (rigged) towards the Allies favor. (I can't tell yet if he actually believes that, or if he was just venting frustration.) If you wish to continue this game, you may have to use some skillful diplomacy to calm his nerves. (He may be a bit of a "high strung, high maintenance" kind of guy.) For example: Keep reminding him of how much of a challenge he is presenting to you. Tell him how much fun your having trying to slow his juggernaught. Express surprise at his bold moves, yada yada. You said these things to us here on these forums, don't forget to pass them on to him, assuming you aren't doing that now.

cantona2 -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/19/2007 6:56:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mlees In Trollelite's sister thread, he mentions that some air unit of his did not launch against a ship/TF of yours that got spotted. He saw that as evidence of how the game is tilted (rigged) towards the Allies favor. (I can't tell yet if he actually believes that, or if he was just venting frustration.) If you wish to continue this game, you may have to use some skillful diplomacy to calm his nerves. (He may be a bit of a "high strung, high maintenance" kind of guy.) For example: Keep reminding him of how much of a challenge he is presenting to you. Tell him how much fun your having trying to slow his juggernaught. Express surprise at his bold moves, yada yada. You said these things to us here on these forums, don't forget to pass them on to him, assuming you aren't doing that now. Far too graceful, id have already said thanks, but no thanks and ill be looking for another JFB to play.

TenChiMato -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/19/2007 6:56:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mlees In Trollelite's sister thread, he mentions that some air unit of his did not launch against a ship/TF of yours that got spotted. He saw that as evidence of how the game is tilted (rigged) towards the Allies favor. (I can't tell yet if he actually believes that, or if he was just venting frustration.) If you wish to continue this game, you may have to use some skillful diplomacy to calm his nerves. (He may be a bit of a "high strung, high maintenance" kind of guy.) For example: Keep reminding him of how much of a challenge he is presenting to you. Tell him how much fun your having trying to slow his juggernaught. Express surprise at his bold moves, yada yada. You said these things to us here on these forums, don't forget to pass them on to him, assuming you aren't doing that now. I played against him for some time (as JFB) and there is no doubt he is a good player but the least I can tell is that his temper and way of communicating clearly arent paying honor to his tactical skills. in the end its a question about whether you both keep enjoying the game or not. If one is not having fun no matter the reason it ruins the play. I called it quit for that reason, it was challenging but not funny at all; too bad [:(]

Feinder -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/19/2007 8:02:01 PM)
I always cringe when I post or reply in the general "Opponents Wanted" forum. Most of my opponents only play names they recognize that have been around for a while (and likely have several games under their belt). It's disappointing when somebody abandons a game. Yes, I understand that "if it ain't fun, don't waste the time". It -is- a lot of time. But it's disappointing for both when you've invested time in a game, and somebody bails. It takes two to play tho. You might get a taker for it, if you can get Troll's password. -F-

Gen.Hoepner -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/20/2007 12:14:35 AM)
However guys, not every hope is lost. This week end we'll know

Kull -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/20/2007 12:53:46 PM)
Just a fascinating thread guys - thanks for an extremely entertaining evening. Kudos to GH for adhering to Sun Tze, identifying his opponents' strategic weak points, and leveraging his assets to attack them. And all this while experiencing hammer blows that would have broken a lesser player. My hat is off to you, sir.

Gen.Hoepner -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/20/2007 1:09:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kull Just a fascinating thread guys - thanks for an extremely entertaining evening. Kudos to GH for adhering to Sun Tze, identifying his opponents' strategic weak points, and leveraging his assets to attack them. And all this while experiencing hammer blows that would have broken a lesser player. My hat is off to you, sir. Thanks mate, too kind! He's still winning anyway guys! If this war will continue remember that i'm still struggling to keep the Brits alive and there's on the way a very risky invasion of the Marshalls, which can end in a bath of american blood....so, don't be confident please[;)]

Gen.Hoepner -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/21/2007 1:31:26 AM)
Trollelite has sent me the turn!!!! We're back in action!! Ok, after my bombing raid from luzon he moved a lot of planes to Formosa....very well! That means less planes in the pacific...[:D] However i have prepared a little surprise for him at Luzon....let's see if he eats the bait[;)] Still no sign of the KB...must be coming back to the DEI-SRA...gotta pay attention now... tomorrow we'll have more news about it. The "retribution" operation is on the way. We're just waiting for the CVs and then we can go. As scheldued for the second half of Feb 42 we'll start the landings... May God bless our men!

Gen.Hoepner -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/21/2007 8:32:34 AM)
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 02/11/42 Well, he ate completely the bait...even too much[:)] He moved to Formosa more than 60 zeros and some 150 bombers!! I had move back to China my bombers at Clark Fields, leaving only 60 P-40s on CAP at 18,000 fts. He arrived en masse, with bombers at 12,000 fts. The zeros were still too much to handle for my low experienced american pilots, but we managed anyway to shoot down at least 12 zeros (but i didn't have the resturn file, so it could be some FOW), losing nearly 30 planes of mine. The result was gained anyway: i have driven to the PI his attention!! Now i'll try to cat and mouse here, moving my planes up and down from China...this should keep him concentrated on shutting down PI airfields and so keeping his bombers here... However the maradeurs at Manila were not moved back so they could score one more hit near Davao[8D] Now the strange news: KB spotted near Pangim (see picture), followed by what seems to be 3 different BB TFs....now the question is: are they going for Bombay? probable...he wants to NUKE bombay out and so to finally end the threat of my planes there... What to do now? I have two options: moving back all my planes to Karachi and leave Bombay on its own, or i can stay, shifting some planes to Poona and moving down a Fast RN SCTF from Karachi, in order to be able to fight against his nuke-BBs? mmmm....i have some time to think but i have to take a decision..... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on Clark Field , at 43,51 some crack bastard zero pilots won't fight tomorrow[:D] Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 61 G3M Nell x 69 G4M1 Betty x 48 Ki-49 Helen x 34 Allied aircraft P-40B Tomahawk x 56 Japanese aircraft losses A6M2 Zero: 12 destroyed, 6 damaged G3M Nell: 7 damaged G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged Ki-49 Helen: 7 damaged Allied aircraft losses P-40B Tomahawk: 28 destroyed, 1 damaged B-25C Mitchell: 1 destroyed B-17D Fortress: 1 destroyed Allied ground losses: 69 casualties reported Guns lost 3 Airbase hits 12 Airbase supply hits 4 Runway hits 101 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on Mangalore Naval Base Force, at 14,17 Japanese aircraft G3M Nell x 20 Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 9 Ki-21-II Sally x 76 Ki-49 Helen x 7 Ki-15 Babs x 1 Japanese aircraft losses G3M Nell: 1 damaged Ki-21-II Sally: 2 damaged Allied ground losses: 129 casualties reported Guns lost 2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on 44th Indian Brigade, at 16,20 Japanese aircraft D3A2 Val x 20 B5N2 Kate x 24 Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 6 Ki-21-II Sally x 31 Ki-49 Helen x 22 Ki-15 Babs x 2 No Japanese losses Allied ground losses: 164 casualties reported -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on TF, near Tagbilaran at 44,58 my B-26s are operating from Manila Allied aircraft B-26B Marauder x 4 No Allied losses Japanese Ships AK Yoneyama Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage[;)] Aircraft Attacking: 4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at 16,20 this is the 99th Indian Bde, which surrendered this turn near Mannargudi[:(] Japanese Shock attack Attacking force 11289 troops, 85 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 327 Defending force 2344 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 48 Japanese max assault: 574 - adjusted assault: 514 Allied max defense: 25 - adjusted defense: 1 Japanese assault odds: 514 to 1 Japanese ground losses: 17 casualties reported Allied ground losses: 3057 casualties reported Guns lost 10 [image]local://upfiles/4162/F557A07959D845B1AEB23BC59D7D748F.jpg[/image]

Gen.Hoepner -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/21/2007 8:33:33 AM)
The KB covering 3/4 BB TFs near Mangalore... [image]local://upfiles/4162/22885676977541119873D93F5FEFC4CE.jpg[/image]

Gen.Hoepner -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/21/2007 8:45:27 AM)
However...the real good thing is that if the KB and the main Combined fleet is still operating in India, so there won't be any real threat , regarding surface assets, in the Marshalls. I tempted to move back all my A/Cs to Karachi so to keep the menace of the RAF alive as long as possible, forcing him to keep his main assets in India.... What d'u think?

okami -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/21/2007 9:58:01 AM)
Remember the Betty's and Nell's. Keep your cap strong in the Marshall's. You have him out maneuvered now.

Gen.Hoepner -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/21/2007 10:04:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: okami Remember the Betty's and Nell's. Keep your cap strong in the Marshall's. You have him out maneuvered now. I've loaded every Marine air unit on the CVs (unloading the useless TBDs), but as you will all know the US CAP with 4 CVs at this stage is quite useless. More useless in this MOD, so i've already counted to lose my CVs...but if i manage to put a strong foot in the Marshalls then hundreds of planes are ready to move there... I have to rely on the fact that the threat in the PI will keep his bombers and zeros away at least at the beginning of the operation. Then my BBs and my 4Es from Wake will try to nuke every AF in the Marshalls (particulary important are Kwalajein and Maloep which are both level 4). I just need to calculate the right timing....but i think it can be done!...i'm however ready to pay the price of this great risk!

Gen.Hoepner -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/21/2007 10:16:38 AM)
BTW along with the HUGE landing force which is now approaching Jonhston Island, there's also a TF loaded up with 150 planes, ready to be unloaded at Maloep as soon as the atoll is conquered. The recon says that he has reinforced Kwalajein at least with a unit (12 units are spotted there right now), while at Maloep there's still only the starting base force...i have to face probably thousands of mines there, that's why i'm bringing with me more than 80 DDs and every possible aux vessel i have at hands in the Pacific. Nearly 300k Fuel and 200,000 supplies are being brought also....

okami -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/21/2007 10:19:08 AM)
GH I have played this mod three times and A2A is grossly in the allies favour. Set your cap at 90% for your naval fighters and 30% for your marines. Keep your carriers in one carrier TFs but all in same hex. Move to four hexes of Maelop and bomb the **** out of him. You will kill about 90% of everything that comes at you. You may lose a carrier but if you have an old BB in each TF they may take the hit for you. Have fun and good hunting.

Gen.Hoepner -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/21/2007 10:25:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: okami GH I have played this mod three times and A2A is grossly in the allies favour. Set your cap at 90% for your naval fighters and 30% for your marines. Keep your carriers in one carrier TFs but all in same hex. Move to four hexes of Maelop and bomb the **** out of him. You will kill about 90% of everything that comes at you. You may lose a carrier but if you have an old BB in each TF they may take the hit for you. Have fun and good hunting. I have all the BBs, plus a british BB...something like 13 BBs i think (cannot check cause i'm not at home right now - being at the Court waiting for an audience[>:])...enough to create strong BB TFs and to protect my landing forces. I do not experienced anything that says that this mod is strongly in allies' favour, but i take the advice[;)] The problem will be the comming. He will spot me very far away from the Marshalls, so i have to think of a way to distract him.... Thanks for the suggestions Okami, really appreciated[:)]

okami -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/21/2007 10:32:08 AM)
Use bad weather. Come in under rain or worse and he will only see you when you are on top of him, say 6 hexes. Wish you could get a weather report a week in advance like they did in the real war but oh well.

TenChiMato -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/21/2007 12:37:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner However...the real good thing is that if the KB and the main Combined fleet is still operating in India, so there won't be any real threat , regarding surface assets, in the Marshalls. I tempted to move back all my A/Cs to Karachi so to keep the menace of the RAF alive as long as possible, forcing him to keep his main assets in India.... What d'u think? I would say withdraw the RAF to Karachi, concentrating then withdrawing then reconcentrating as you do in the PI will force him to maintain a lot of air and naval units in India. He cannot afford to withdraw the fleet with the RN around and a strong RAF ready to support it. Also keeping his air units on the move on such distances will seriously raise their fatigue level. Regarding the PI, too bad you dont have some more AA units there, with all those LBs attacking at low altitude...[;)]

Gen.Hoepner -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/21/2007 1:01:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TenChiMato Regarding the PI, too bad you dont have some more AA units there, with all those LBs attacking at low altitude...[;)] Yes, i have also thought about changing the HQ to USAFE fo some US west coast AA units, but that sounds pretty cheaty, due to the fact that those units simply would not be able to appear at Luzon but should need to be transfered there by sea... so while i find perfectly right to use this method between West Coast and Aden (simulating the passage through the Atlantic and Med), this cannot-imho- be done for China or the PI... However it doesn't change much... i was thinking of doing exatcly the same thing u suggested for RAF in India...move move and move!!! No more sitting ducks![;)]

Gen.Hoepner -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/21/2007 1:10:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner Only infantry and tank units: 7th AIF div: 350 AVs 18th UK div: 340 AVs 6th Ind. Bde: 100 AVs 99th Ind. Bde: 100 AVs 63th Ind. Bde: 100 AVs 48th Ind. Gurkha Bde: 120 AVs 45th Ind. Bde: 120 AVs 46th Ind. Bde: 120 AVs 13rd Ind. Bde: 100 AVs 26th Ind. Div: 60 AVs 23rd Ind. Div: 100AVs 14th Ind. Div: 120 AVs 20th Ind. Div: 120 AVs 1st Burma bde: 60 AVs 2nd Burma Bde: 60 AVs 254th Tank bde: 70 AVs 255th Tank Bde:70 AVs for a total of 2.210 AVs... Again i can now guarantee the presence of these units, more or less intact, at Karachi for the final stand. I consider lost so far 2 full indian bdes, 1 arty unit, and one small regiment of an Indian Division. The rest should be pretty safe for the moment. The falling back is going fine and my Dakotas did a great job completely transferring the 3rd Car tank unit and the 99 Ind. Bde from Mangalore to Bombay in 5 days!!!! great Job! Now these 2 units are moving safely towards Karachi[8D] For what concerns the RAF, i can master some 500 planes for the final stand in Karachi. Not bad.

Jim D Burns -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/21/2007 1:45:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner I have two options: moving back all my planes to Karachi and leave Bombay on its own, or i can stay, shifting some planes to Poona and moving down a Fast RN SCTF from Karachi, in order to be able to fight against his nuke-BBs? Hi G.H., KB will sink your entire RN. Send it to Aden and wait for KB to leave the theatre before bringing it out. Right now he's in a good position to race north and get KB between you and the Aden channel. If he does that, he'll trap and sink your navy. I know you feel you must fight, but you will need the RN for the future and losing it now will mean years of inaction as you await new units to arrive. It is far more valuable as a threat in being than as a coral reef. KB will not be able to linger in the Indian Ocean long once the Marshal Islands landings commence, so save the RN by tucking it away in Aden till KB is gone. Also when you leave the marshals, be sure to grab a small fragment of every unit you place out there. Japan has plenty of time and force to return and destroy everything you bring there right now, so assume you’ll lose it eventually. If you don’t want to slow down your 43 counter-attack timetables, you’ll want to rebuild those units before then if you can. Jim

Gen.Hoepner -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/21/2007 2:01:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns quote: ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner I have two options: moving back all my planes to Karachi and leave Bombay on its own, or i can stay, shifting some planes to Poona and moving down a Fast RN SCTF from Karachi, in order to be able to fight against his nuke-BBs? Hi G.H., KB will sink your entire RN. Send it to Aden and wait for KB to leave the theatre before bringing it out. Right now he's in a good position to race north and get KB between you and the Aden channel. If he does that, he'll trap and sink your navy. I know you feel you must fight, but you will need the RN for the future and losing it now will mean years of inaction as you await new units to arrive. It is far more valuable as a threat in being than as a coral reef. KB will not be able to linger in the Indian Ocean long once the Marshal Islands landings commence, so save the RN by tucking it away in Aden till KB is gone. Also when you leave the marshals, be sure to grab a small fragment of every unit you place out there. Japan has plenty of time and force to return and destroy everything you bring there right now, so assume you’ll lose it eventually. If you don’t want to slow down your 43 counter-attack timetables, you’ll want to rebuild those units before then if you can. Jim Hi Jim, well, most of the RN is already at Aden. I've kept a SFTC at Karachi just in case, but i'm ready to send it back asap at full speed as soon as the threat of the Kb will arise. Once the final siege of Karachi will start i'd like to use the RN as was used in RL with Malta fortress. Using it to cover the supply convoys towards the sieged city...would be cool[:D] Here's the OOB for fighters and bombers that will partecipate to the final defence of Karachi... [image]local://upfiles/4162/4BAD3BF62A254E5B868BA46A276E1B53.jpg[/image]

Gen.Hoepner -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/21/2007 2:34:23 PM)
And this is the OOB for the Operation "Retribution": 24th U.S. Division 25th U.S. Division 2nd USMC Division (in reserve) 153rd U.S. RCT 111st U.S. RCT 161st U.S. RCT 8th NZ Bde 14th NZ Bde 188th U.S. Arty 183rd U.S. Arty 98th U.S. AA rgt. 754th U.S. Tank Bn. 34th U.S. CBT Eng Rgt. 5th U.S. Base Force 71st U.S. Base Force 109th U.S. Base Force 2nd Marine CD unit 7th Marine CD unit 4 CVs 12 BBs 15 CAs 13 CLs 85 DDs and lots of aux units.

Gen.Hoepner -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/21/2007 2:40:19 PM)
. [image]local://upfiles/4162/93C4229DF1974E13B92C8B43ED761170.jpg[/image]

Gen.Hoepner -> RE: the Struggle for India (12/21/2007 3:21:57 PM)
As you can see from the screeshot above the retreat isn't going bad in India. The unit just south of Bengalore is the Bde that surrendered this turn, while the unit seen marchin towards Mangalore is the Madras base force. Near Hydebaran there is a Ind.Bde and the arty unit that i consider already lost, constantly shocked and pursued by his tanks, while south of Raipur the small indian regiment which is completely depleted. I've already abbandoned Hydebaran, going towards Bombay. i've waited till the "Heroes of Madras" arrived here then i ordered to move back to Bombay at full speed. As soon as these guys arrive the bulk of the 18th UK division, along with 2 Indian Bde, that are waiting for them, willmove all togheder back to Ahmadabad as a first step and then to Karachi. I'm covering every base in my back with at least 100 AVs, just to be sure that his paras won't catch me off guard... I think it should go fine till Malir....

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