RE: Karachi in ruins... (Full Version)

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Gen.Hoepner -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/8/2008 7:51:30 PM)

Thanks Jim.
I'm keeping the 2nd USMC division at Pearl right now. It will be substituted within the next 2 weeks by the Americal Div. The latter will be sitting at Pearl waiting for recovering from disablement.
The Mariannas are a juicy target right now, but you're probably right: i simply cannot defend what i gained if i take too much right now.

Now China guys needs some attention...
Trollelite made a very smart move and caught me off guard. I could believe he could master so many divisions so fast...look at the screenshot!!18 major units attacking, while he has strongpoints almost everywhere in the chinese map...
I have to abbandon Nanchang and run for Changsha now. I have barely 400 AVs at Changsha and more 800 at Hanchow (sp!?!?!?). I'll try to intedict his approach disturbing his com lines which are however very thin...i'll also divert some units from Canton Area...hope to get 2000 AVs at Changsha before he can arrive with his 6000!! But it will be tough... the problem is that he's supporting his advance with something like 500 bombers...my units don't simply have the strenght to oppose to these odds!
I'll keep on marching towards Shangai with a small army (800 AVs)...at least i can dig there and stop his production there, forcing him to keep some good units there...
It's however a mess...

[image]local://upfiles/4162/1479E8E0C9C44EF683D247CE71556601.jpg[/image]



FeurerKrieg -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/8/2008 8:06:02 PM)

I don't think Uber cap is invulnerable, especially against 4e bombers. I've seen some 4e's get through an drop bombs on those KB carriers often enough.

Resupply PI would be excellent.

But if you decide to stop at Marshall's, is it possible to launch attack on Northern HI?

Seems to me with so much force in China and India, there has to be the opportunity here to inflict damage on home island industry. Maybe coming from the north is another possibility.

I know as a Japan player I never feel like I have enough in the Pacific, even without india offensives.



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/8/2008 8:06:20 PM)

I do not have the turn right now. just the reply, so i cannot add any new screenshot.
However i made a precise calculation. Right now i have 2380 AVs for the defence of Karachi with 350,000 supplies and i think i'll reach forts at level 6 within the next week. Not bad indeed, but with the BB hammering the place and hundreds of bombers over my head things can become pretty bad easily...

It's confirmed that he has some betties at Truk. They spotted my CVs NW of Kwalajein so i guess he has at least 2 full daitais there. recon says 40 bombers, but i bet at least 52 Betties are present at Truk.

I think the more interesting strategy for the comming future will be to start a bombing campaign at Truk to reduce the base before Tojos and Tonies arrive. When/If, truk will be closed...if he reinforce the Mariannas i could chose to go for Palau/Ambonia  instead, bypassing Rabaul and Truk...could be interesting...



Jim D Burns -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/8/2008 8:07:14 PM)

Hmm, I think I see an opportunity. Do you have enough force to cross over the river into the Kiukiang base and stay there? If so you can cut his supplies and expose his entire force to destruction.

[image]local://upfiles/5815/307DBF4EA868420093EDBC68246C5AC4.jpg[/image]

If you lack the forces to cross right now, pull the forces heading to Shanghai back and use those, this is a great opportunity I think. If anything, it’ll force him to cross the river and drive you out, thus buying enough time to reinforce Changsha.

Jim



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/8/2008 8:07:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

I don't think Uber cap is invulnerable, especially against 4e bombers. I've seen some 4e's get through an drop bombs on those KB carriers often enough.

Resupply PI would be excellent.

But if you decide to stop at Marshall's, is it possible to launch attack on Northern HI?

Seems to me with so much force in China and India, there has to be the opportunity here to inflict damage on home island industry. Maybe coming from the north is another possibility.

I know as a Japan player I never feel like I have enough in the Pacific, even without india offensives.


Trollelite asked for an HR that forbids any operation in Northern Pacific before Russia is activated...i agreed on that[:(]..now i blame myself[:-]



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/8/2008 8:11:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

Hmm, I think I see an opportunity. Do you have enough force to cross over the river into the Kiukiang base and stay there? If so you can cut his supplies and expose his entire force to destruction.

[image]local://upfiles/5815/307DBF4EA868420093EDBC68246C5AC4.jpg[/image]

If you lack the forces to cross right now, pull the forces heading to Shanghai back and use those, this is a great opportunity I think. If anything, it’ll force him to cross the river and drive you out, thus buying enough time to reinforce Changsha.

Jim


I saw that opportunity too...but he had last turn 30 units at kiukiang. He crossed the river with 18 major units and maybe 3 HQs, so there are still 10 units there...for sure a division which is enough to stop my 1300 AVs at Nanchang... I'll try to cut his supply lines using guerrilla force unit present east of Hankow and at the same time another small army (330 AVs) present in the woods (not displayed in the screenshots) just NW of Nanchang...it will buy me some time to get some units back to Changsha...i hope...



Jim D Burns -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/8/2008 8:13:59 PM)

You don't need to take the base, just get units into the hex and their zoc stops the supplies from flowing. I'd say 1300 AV is enough to prevent him from throwing you out without his main army returning to do the job.

Jim



FeurerKrieg -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/8/2008 8:14:20 PM)

But with Swamp in Kiukang, you don't think you're units will be able to at least sit there? They don't have to take the base to stop the supplies.

HR for no action in No Pac? No wonder he is able to move so much force west. In my games I always have to keep some forces around to make sure the US doesn't try a sucker punch up there.

What was the logic on that HR?

EDIT: Jim was faster than me. :)



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/8/2008 8:21:07 PM)

Ok, but doing that i'll leave Changsha completely undefended!...even without supplies he can take whatever he wants with 6000 AVs...



Jim D Burns -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/8/2008 8:28:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

Ok, but doing that i'll leave Changsha completely undefended!...even without supplies he can take whatever he wants with 6000 AVs...


He burns the same amount of supply every time he attacks whether he attacks one tiny unit or 50. So leave a unit to force him to attack every hex he has to advance through to get to Changsha. By the time he reaches Changsha he’ll be out of supply and that 6000 AV will only be 1500AV. His stuff will begin to disable very rapidly as well, so he won’t be able to take the base unless he does it very quickly.

Also if you have 3 or 4 units cycling into the combat hex, he won’t be able to move at all until he reduces their AV’s to zero (they retreat automatically when they are in an enemy hex and have 0 AV). So each turn set one unit to move towards his army. After 3 or so turns, your units will start arriving one at a time and he’ll have to stop and attack as each one enters the hex.

As soon as they get booted out, order them to move in again, rinse and repeat. I wouldn’t do this in most games unless he had armor that could shock-pursue, but given the para moves he just made I think it’s more than justified in this game.

Jim



Mistmatz -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/8/2008 8:38:31 PM)

I wouldn't take any risks in China atm. With India soon gone your supply will be very, very grim. And the easier you make it for him there the sooner you'll see huge landings in the pacific. Delay him wherever you can but play it safe in China is my suggestion.

With the NPAC house rule I bet HI is totally empty, makes it even more dangerous to go for the Marianas... [;)][8D]
Does this btw. also mean no japanese operations against Alaska? If so that would mean some nice regiments as reinforcements without PP!




Jim D Burns -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/8/2008 8:44:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz
Does this btw. also mean no japanese operations against Alaska? If so that would mean some nice regiments as reinforcements without PP!



Found their house rule, it's one sided, only prohibits the allies.

13. No allied offensive action in northern pacific before soviet enter war. They can take back any amercian territory occupied by japanese, however.

Jim



FeurerKrieg -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/8/2008 8:46:21 PM)

I agree with Jim here. After those para moves, I'd be marching all kinds of little units around in China to delay delay delay - something I wouldn't do in most games.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

Ok, but doing that i'll leave Changsha completely undefended!...even without supplies he can take whatever he wants with 6000 AVs...


He burns the same amount of supply every time he attacks whether he attacks one tiny unit or 50. So leave a unit to force him to attack every hex he has to advance through to get to Changsha. By the time he reaches Changsha he’ll be out of supply and that 6000 AV will only be 1500AV. His stuff will begin to disable very rapidly as well, so he won’t be able to take the base unless he does it very quickly.

Also if you have 3 or 4 units cycling into the combat hex, he won’t be able to move at all until he reduces their AV’s to zero (they retreat automatically when they are in an enemy hex and have 0 AV). So each turn set one unit to move towards his army. After 3 or so turns, your units will start arriving one at a time and he’ll have to stop and attack as each one enters the hex.

As soon as they get booted out, order them to move in again, rinse and repeat. I wouldn’t do this in most games unless he had armor that could shock-pursue, but given the para moves he just made I think it’s more than justified in this game.

Jim





Mistmatz -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/8/2008 8:46:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz
Does this btw. also mean no japanese operations against Alaska? If so that would mean some nice regiments as reinforcements without PP!



Found their house rule, it's one sided, only prohibits the allies.

13. No allied offensive action in northern pacific before soviet enter war. They can take back any amercian territory occupied by japanese, however.

Jim



Too bad...



FeurerKrieg -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/8/2008 8:47:02 PM)

GH Needs to poll the forum for better house rules for his next game. [:D]


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz
Does this btw. also mean no japanese operations against Alaska? If so that would mean some nice regiments as reinforcements without PP!



Found their house rule, it's one sided, only prohibits the allies.

13. No allied offensive action in northern pacific before soviet enter war. They can take back any amercian territory occupied by japanese, however.

Jim




Elladan -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/8/2008 9:35:42 PM)

Hmm, Kiukang is a sound move, with a swamp there you have chances to block his supply line. What forces do you have in Honan/Yenen area? Would it be possible to stage an attack there to force him to withdraw something from Changsa?

As for possible Mariana operation, after a bit of thought I would for now stay where you are and fortify/build airfields. After some time, say a month, evaluate situation again and if you see he's going to have his forces stuck at Karachi and China for months do some recon on Marianas, by sub invasions or paradrops. If you still see weak defenses and have forces for this go farther west. Just my 2c :)



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/9/2008 12:58:04 AM)

Thx guys for your constant support.

The turn has arrived.

The news:
- Truk: we have finally driven his attention here. He moved 130 fighters, 80 bombers and more 167 aux (which probably are damaged a/c)...I'm trying to reinforce Eniwatok with supplies and units...let's see if i can start an attrition air battle!

-China: i decided to try to rush for Changsha...I've spared all the forces i could...however having him many tank units he will surely shock and pursue...so he's gonna arrive sooner than me...I'll try to see what he has in the north...if he has 6500 AVs in the south...how many divisions could he have up in the north? how many AVs? Considering also that he surely has brought some units from Manchukoku...

-India...nothing particular to mention.

[image]local://upfiles/4162/35DC3D2B5E95431692FC5E6ABBEEF10C.jpg[/image]



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/9/2008 12:59:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

You don't need to take the base, just get units into the hex and their zoc stops the supplies from flowing. I'd say 1300 AV is enough to prevent him from throwing you out without his main army returning to do the job.

Jim


Jim, even with 1500 AVs he can take a base completely undefended like Changsha...gotta gain time and find another place to strike him in the back...



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/9/2008 1:00:37 AM)

Remember that cycling my units as you suggested cannot be done if he has 6 tank regiments with him...he will simply follow me till the end of the map like he has done in India...



witpqs -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/9/2008 1:12:30 AM)

Do you plan to take Kwajelein? Staying in the Marshalls seems to make the most sense, and Kwajelain would be a rgeat base, close enough to support Eniwetok. Most importantly, it could give you enough LBA to work with your carriers in opposing KB in a decisive engagement.



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/9/2008 1:22:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Do you plan to take Kwajelein? Staying in the Marshalls seems to make the most sense, and Kwajelain would be a rgeat base, close enough to support Eniwetok. Most importantly, it could give you enough LBA to work with your carriers in opposing KB in a decisive engagement.


Not untill i'm sure it's reduced enough! So not anytime soon.
Right now it will be a bloodbath. there are nearly 30,000 men there, most of which, i'm sure, are naval garrison units and SNLF...i'm too weak right now to try this kind of operation.
I'll try to take Ponape, just to deny him a base for Mavis/emilies...gotta recon it a bit to see what he really has there...



witpqs -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/9/2008 1:28:01 AM)

If you can't risk capturing it before he returns from his little adventure then it should be a great on the job training area for your LBA keeping it suppressed - make things even hotter for the KB! [:D]



FeurerKrieg -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/9/2008 1:39:02 AM)




quote:

Considering also that he surely has brought some units from Manchukoku...



Let me guess... no house rule preventing Kwangtung units from moving to China?



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/9/2008 1:50:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg




quote:

Considering also that he surely has brought some units from Manchukoku...



Let me guess... no house rule preventing Kwangtung units from moving to China?



Good guess!
I've already spotted several units moving from Manchucoku to China...

So, how many AVs can he has in China right now?



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/9/2008 1:52:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

If you can't risk capturing it before he returns from his little adventure then it should be a great on the job training area for your LBA keeping it suppressed - make things even hotter for the KB! [:D]



That's for sure mate! I'll train to hell my LBAs and fighters!!!! Wanna have a strong air force once he will be coming!



FeurerKrieg -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/9/2008 1:56:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner


quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg




quote:

Considering also that he surely has brought some units from Manchukoku...



Let me guess... no house rule preventing Kwangtung units from moving to China?



Good guess!
I've already spotted several units moving from Manchucoku to China...

So, how many AVs can he has in China right now?



Well, you start with some 8800 in Kwangtung alone, IIRC.

Are there any house rules that benefit the allies in this game? (Note - I'm a JFB) [X(]



FeurerKrieg -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/9/2008 1:58:22 AM)

What's up with these HRs - I finally got around to reading them.

10. Except initial chinese exp.force, only 2 other chinese corps could be changed to southeast asia command and be able to fight in burma and india. There is no restriction to support units, however. Those 2 corps should be announced.
11.chinese forces under china command can fight in manchuria, korea,taiwan, vietnam, but not siam, burma,DEI,or india, etc.


But Japs can move from Manchukuo?!?[:-]



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/9/2008 1:59:39 AM)

...wonder what i'll do when Tojo and Tonies will come to the front...i will probably have just to sit down and wait for my death-star...[:o]



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/9/2008 2:02:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

What's up with these HRs - I finally got around to reading them.

10. Except initial chinese exp.force, only 2 other chinese corps could be changed to southeast asia command and be able to fight in burma and india. There is no restriction to support units, however. Those 2 corps should be announced.
11.chinese forces under china command can fight in manchuria, korea,taiwan, vietnam, but not siam, burma,DEI,or india, etc.


But Japs can move from Manchukuo?!?[:-]


I know...i didn't think too much when i agreed...He offered me the game and i took all the HRs he asked just thinking that i wanted a game...never had these kind of problems before...

however guys, these are the HRs and i simply have to live with them or abbandon the game. But i want to play so let's take them as they are and let's try not to lose at least



Jim D Burns -> RE: Karachi in ruins... (1/9/2008 7:11:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner
167 aux


I'd say he's going to air lift his troops out of Kwajalein with that many aux aircraft around. Either that or he's air lifting supplies in. Try flying LRCAP and sweeps over Kwajalein and see if you don't bag a bunch of his transports. LRCAP will intercept offensive missions and sweeps will intercept defensive missions. I know air lifting supplies is offensive, but I have no idea if air lifting troops out is considered offensive or defensive.

He may also be trying some para ops, make sure you leave at least a RCT at each island you take that is in range of Truk based air transports.

Jim



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