RE: Lessons learned and reviewed

RE: Lessons learned and reviewed (Full Version)

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bobogoboom -> RE: Lessons learned and reviewed (1/13/2008 3:12:07 AM)
thanks trollelite

mdiehl -> RE: Lessons learned and reviewed (1/13/2008 4:48:49 AM)
If I understand your observation, it is that you think it unlikely that a small number of hits would necessarily find the critical point on a cruiser. I suppose that is a fair point. But in the real event that was WW2, that sort of thing happened on numerous occasions. HMS Hood. Then Bismarck. USS Arizona. Possibly in the demise of IJN Yamato. And if you press in close to shore batteries, they can (and should if they're trained as naval cost defense) hit ships engaging in shore bombardment. And BTW the Japanese aircraft carriers at Midway did not have their decks covered with fueld a.c. waiting to take off. Japanese CVs were vulnerable compared to either USN or RN CVs.

bobogoboom -> RE: Lessons learned and reviewed (1/13/2008 10:37:49 AM)
why do you think the japs didn't take on the shore batteries at singapore or manilla. and why do you think the americans skipped truck.

Rapunzel -> RE: Lessons learned and reviewed (1/13/2008 12:15:05 PM)
Good game from you and GH! It is very interesting to follow both of you. I even consider an assault of india in my next pbem ;)

trollelite -> RE: Lessons learned and reviewed (1/13/2008 10:54:07 PM)
1942, Mar, 17 ASW attack at 20,3 Japanese Ships DD Namikaze DD Hokaze DD Nokaze Allied Ships SS KXVII -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack at 14,1 Japanese Ships SS I-157 Allied Ships AP Lancashire -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Karachi at 21,3 Japanese Ships DD Uzuki, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage DD Sazanami DD Akebono DD Asagiri DD Akatsuki DD Harusame DD Arare DD Asagumo DD Minegumo DD Natsugumo DD Yukikaze DD Akigumo Allied Ships SS KXVII, hits 2 ASW attack near Karachi at 21,3 Japanese Ships DD Sazanami DD Akebono DD Asagiri DD Akatsuki DD Harusame DD Arare DD Asagumo DD Minegumo DD Natsugumo DD Yukikaze DD Akigumo Allied Ships SS KXVII, hits 1 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack at 20,6 Japanese Ships BB Ise, Torpedo hits 1, on fire DD Murakumo DD Yugure DD Nenohi DD Hatsuharu DD Kawakaze DD Yamagumo Allied Ships SS O20 Sub attack at 20,6 Japanese Ships DD Asagumo, Torpedo hits 1, on fire DD Sazanami DD Akebono DD Asagiri DD Akatsuki DD Harusame DD Arare DD Minegumo DD Natsugumo DD Yukikaze DD Akigumo Allied Ships SS O20, hits 3 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack at 14,1 Japanese Ships SS I-157 Allied Ships AP Warwick Castle More disappointment. After very disappointing result of some event yesterday this obviously would not improve my mood. I hope you could understand I sometimes do need some complains to balance this. His subs sink our warships with impunity, and those warships are nothing more than destroyers assagined to asw group themselves. And ours cannot even hope to hit unescorted AP. I remember our submarine can only hit one time out of 2 chances with unescorted ships. So allies torpedo dud rate is largely offset, because a torpeodo misses is no better than dud itself. Think how my submarine would fare if met with so many allies dd, it most likely turn to be end of that SS.

Capt Henry_MatrixForum -> RE: Lessons learned and reviewed (1/14/2008 12:07:45 AM)
I can certainly see where it's frustrating to ASW against allied subs. I find the U.S S-boats and the British and Dutch subs to be the toughest opponents early in the war as they aren't carrying the torpedoes with the high dud rate. I suspect that will be an ongoing problem for naval support of a drive on Karachi. There aren't many places for your ships to be as you're moving against a fixed point, so GH can concentrate subs against you. At least in a couple of instances thes subs attacked your ASW task froces instead of hitting BBs every time. With regard to Allied ASW being superior to Japanese, I think there is considerable evidence that allied asw was actually superior to the Japanese. Even if we assume equal ability to hunt subs, allied destroyers have double to quadruple the anti-sub weaponry. Have you tried using carrier air assets on ASW patrol? The KB should have a high skill level to use against subs. Could you reserve the heavy carriers for anti-ship work in case the Royal Navy shows up and use the light carriers for CAP and ASW? You should be also to keep your carriers just out of range of Karachi while still covering a large area.

Fishbed -> RE: Lessons learned and reviewed (1/14/2008 2:37:32 AM)
(sorry - basically same stuff as Capt Henry) But by the way, is sub doctrina on or off?

trollelite -> RE: Lessons learned and reviewed (1/14/2008 6:27:30 PM)
Well, don't misunderstand me, while I certainly don't like this result, I do accept the rule of game and history, just like to whine somewhat...[:D] While his liners escape unscathed is disappointing, we do run a high risk as sending damaged battleships to bombardment. However, its a bad idea to let an already paralyzed Karachi have chance to recover. After some careless and bad turns the situation is now considered to be again under control. I made some mistakes, and GH, too. Anyway, his sand is running out, not only in one place, but in multiple theaters. His error largely offset my careless movement. We shall see if our force could punish his miscalculation swiftly.

trollelite -> RE: Lessons learned and reviewed (1/14/2008 6:31:20 PM)
KB ASW, yeah, we tried that. We use about 500 aircrafts to do that, for one week, and many allies subs is not far away, some in the same hex, and the farest is 3 hexes away. However, none is hit. Actually we did quite well against my former allies opponent. But that time it operated in southern Pacific, with good weather. And this time we met almost continous T storm. My aircrafts do find sub many times, however none hit is reported. Change setting from asw mission to naval search and change back, nothing helps.[:@] D3A, B5N, H8K and G4M, and of course the infamous sallys, it seems none could pose any threat to sub in T storm. But how could those damned sub so easily find our ships in a hex 60x60 miles...

Capt Henry_MatrixForum -> RE: Lessons learned and reviewed (1/14/2008 7:53:44 PM)
Do you recall what alititude you were operating at? There has been some discussion over the years regarding optimal altitude for ASW and Naval Search missions. My recollection is that ASW was 1,000 feet and Search was 6,000. There has also been discussion on which mission works better. I'm sure someone with better recall than mine can provide better information. ASW is also a great way to build up pilot experience (at least until AE comes out).

trollelite -> RE: Lessons learned and reviewed (1/14/2008 9:40:06 PM)
ASW attack at 19,7 Japanese Ships PC Ch 32 PC Ch 18 PC Ch 17 PC Ch 13 PC Takunan Maru #5 PC Shonan Maru #17 PC Shonan Maru #6 PC Kyo Maru #12 PC Gamitsu Maru #1 Allied Ships SS Narwhal, hits 3, on fire -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASW attack at 19,7 Japanese Ships PC Ch 32 PC Ch 18 PC Ch 17 PC Ch 13 PC Takunan Maru #5 PC Shonan Maru #17 PC Shonan Maru #6 PC Kyo Maru #12 PC Gamitsu Maru #1 PC Fumi Maru APD Patrol Boat No. 39 APD Patrol Boat No. 38 APD Patrol Boat No. 37 APD Patrol Boat No. 36 Allied Ships SS Narwhal, hits 17, heavy damage Well, compared with those incompetent aircrafts, THIS is obviously more direct... Still, only one direct hit is registered, and with Karachi only 4 hex away, she still could be saved...[:(]

trollelite -> RE: Lessons learned and reviewed (1/14/2008 9:41:56 PM)
I think the problem is mainly to do with T storm. But he would not face the same problem, by the time he returns, he would have tons of excellent ASW ships with him, so he doesn't need aircrafts to hunt my submarine.

trollelite -> RE: Lessons learned and reviewed (1/14/2008 11:14:49 PM)
Its clear allies would not suffer any of our problem. We sent 2 subs to Kwa, and one get sunk immediately by his bombers. I don't think he has even one third of our bombers, and Kwa is 5 hex from nearest allies bases, not 2 hex. Still... No wonder so many souls like allies side. Any his opponent's slightest error would be punished most swiftly, and his error could mostly escapes unpunished due to superior allies hardware. I wonder there is any other game in market allows such enjoyment..[:o] Weaker player's paradise.[;)]

trollelite -> RE: Lessons learned and reviewed (1/15/2008 11:43:12 AM)
It's surprising that allies has a huge army in Karachi, even bigger than I expected. Except for 18th Division, it seems element of AIF 7th Division also arrived. Besides, he managed to evacuate cadre of some brigades destroyed in singapore there. Such as 27th AIF Brigade, 6th India, or so. And with a total AV of 27XX, there must be more than 120,000 troops in that damned harbor... It would be a bad business to invest on something already hopeless. Let's see how quick this madness could end... In the other side of theater, fall of Calcutta removed any major threat to our flank, with relative few friendly losses. We use only 1 division and some naval infantry, but augment them with hundreds of tanks. Those colonial troops fear tanks, the books tell us so...[:D]

trollelite -> RE: Lessons learned and reviewed (1/15/2008 11:48:35 AM)
You know why many players get a bloody nose in Luzon? Because they don't deploy tanks there. With 2 tank regiments you don't get much adventage against garrison. They have 2 tank bataillons, too. But with 10 regiments they would fall quickly. [;)] Your tanks would do well against allies. Later they would become useless, as allies infantry's anti tank value rocket from 5 to 75. So use them when they still useful. Don't fear to lose tanks. Even you don't lose any, they would auto replaced by new type of tanks and then rot in the pool. Once old ones end in the pool, they are as good as destroyed, cannot be reused anymore.

trollelite -> RE: Lessons learned and reviewed (1/15/2008 12:45:05 PM)
Sub attack near Truk at 66,78 Japanese Ships AP Kiyosumi Maru, Shell hits 7 Allied Ships SS Cuttlefish He ravaged our Q ship with .5 inch bullets. Our ship responded with a single salvo of 21 inch Type 95 torpedos, but missed! So fish get lucky this time...[:D]

trollelite -> RE: Lessons learned and reviewed (1/20/2008 9:18:22 PM)
GH makes Karachi a real FORTRESS.... However, to do so he seriously weaken defence of other place, so we conquer Bengal almost effortless. Is that a good strategy? We shall see. And he finally pull his submarines out of Karachi area, after losing 2 of them and another 2 suffered damage. Japanese ASW power is inferior, but this doesn't means it's negligible.

trollelite -> RE: Lessons learned and reviewed (1/22/2008 2:57:03 AM)
GH is abandoning clark field...interesting... We are preparing both a long siege and defence against a desperate all out assualt.

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