..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (Full Version)

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a white rabbit -> ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/7/2007 8:29:35 AM)

..ruined urban ? ruined major urban ? rocky ?..it's a 6*4 hex area




Trick37_MatrixForum -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/7/2007 2:21:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

wot's a tin mining area...?


Ummm....a Frenchman dressed as the Tin Man, but with a white face, and doing some bad break dancing moves on the street to get attention?

Wait...... What was the question? [:D][:)]





L`zard -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/24/2007 2:59:08 AM)

Hills or badlands is my guess.........would depend on the surrounding terrain.

What would you call a 200m 'tor' (granite outcrop)?

Jeez, Rabit, I realize your living on the dark side of the moon, but don't you have google?




a white rabbit -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/24/2007 7:43:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: L`zard

Hills or badlands is my guess.........would depend on the surrounding terrain.

What would you call a 200m 'tor' (granite outcrop)?

Jeez, Rabit, I realize your living on the dark side of the moon, but don't you have google?


..define extensive tin mining area in toaw terrain terms ?..

..nahhh, i doubt even google would have the answer..

..badlands is a good idea tho, on a rocky tile..

..and i know what a tor is, that's what you get after a 12 hour ride, bike or horse, over rough country...




L`zard -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/24/2007 8:44:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit


quote:

ORIGINAL: L`zard

Hills or badlands is my guess.........would depend on the surrounding terrain.

What would you call a 200m 'tor' (granite outcrop)?

Jeez, Rabit, I realize your living on the dark side of the moon, but don't you have google?


..define extensive tin mining area in toaw terrain terms ?..

..nahhh, i doubt even google would have the answer..

..badlands is a good idea tho, on a rocky tile..

..and i know what a tor is, that's what you get after a 12 hour ride, bike or horse, over rough country...


Rabbit, sometimes I think you post these sort of things just to get a rise out of the rest of us, LOL!

"that's what you get after a 12 hour ride, bike or horse, over rough country..." Negatory on that, ROIDS is what you get 'after', Tor is how ya get 'em.

OK, I'm gonna go with this, but I'll probably regret it.....

1) hex scale?
2) time period?
3) WTF are you attempting to model? Why is a "tin mining area" pertinant? (I'm prolly gonna be sorry I asked, but it had to be done sooner or later,LOL)

I'm hoping that this has nothing to do with Elephants, or I'm gonna mail one to you, charged to your account!




ColinWright -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/24/2007 9:59:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..ruined urban ? ruined major urban ? rocky ?..it's a 6*4 hex area


It's worth pointing out that whatever its benefits for the defender, such an area can't really be all that hard to cross. After all, the tin had to come out and the workers had to go in.




vahauser -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/24/2007 10:08:56 PM)

My guess would be a "rocky hills" hex.  That describes a tin-mining area pretty well.




a white rabbit -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/28/2007 3:19:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: L`zard


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit


quote:

ORIGINAL: L`zard

Hills or badlands is my guess.........would depend on the surrounding terrain.

What would you call a 200m 'tor' (granite outcrop)?

Jeez, Rabit, I realize your living on the dark side of the moon, but don't you have google?


..define extensive tin mining area in toaw terrain terms ?..

..nahhh, i doubt even google would have the answer..

..badlands is a good idea tho, on a rocky tile..

..and i know what a tor is, that's what you get after a 12 hour ride, bike or horse, over rough country...


Rabbit, sometimes I think you post these sort of things just to get a rise out of the rest of us, LOL!

"that's what you get after a 12 hour ride, bike or horse, over rough country..." Negatory on that, ROIDS is what you get 'after', Tor is how ya get 'em.

OK, I'm gonna go with this, but I'll probably regret it.....

1) hex scale?
2) time period?
3) WTF are you attempting to model? Why is a "tin mining area" pertinant? (I'm prolly gonna be sorry I asked, but it had to be done sooner or later,LOL)

I'm hoping that this has nothing to do with Elephants, or I'm gonna mail one to you, charged to your account!



..2.5 k/hex, Malaya, 1941/42..

..pertinant 'cos it takes up such a large part of the map in a possibly important area, as in i'd use it as a closed flank..

..note, no elephants..




a white rabbit -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/28/2007 3:22:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..ruined urban ? ruined major urban ? rocky ?..it's a 6*4 hex area


It's worth pointing out that whatever its benefits for the defender, such an area can't really be all that hard to cross. After all, the tin had to come out and the workers had to go in.


..mm, not really, it's like a moonscape, holes everywhere, slag (waste) heaps everywhere, no cover, no trees..

..the Brits retreated beyond it , me , mmmmm, properly defended it's a nightmare, like after a WW1 bombardement..




golden delicious -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/28/2007 4:29:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..mm, not really, it's like a moonscape, holes everywhere, slag (waste) heaps everywhere, no cover, no trees..

..the Brits retreated beyond it , me , mmmmm, properly defended it's a nightmare, like after a WW1 bombardement..


You've seen photos of it then?




a white rabbit -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/28/2007 5:00:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..mm, not really, it's like a moonscape, holes everywhere, slag (waste) heaps everywhere, no cover, no trees..

..the Brits retreated beyond it , me , mmmmm, properly defended it's a nightmare, like after a WW1 bombardement..


You've seen photos of it then?



..[:)]..yes some, ,then also i've read the descriptions, looked at the geology, and extrapolated backwards based on what i know/saw of Cornish tin-mining and expanded it to cover a flattish area in the 1940's..

..sorry my geographically and probably geologically challenged friend, you have a point here ?..

..your school has a lot to answer for....

..





a white rabbit -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/28/2007 5:09:05 PM)

..you need wood to smelt the crude tin, so no trees, but then if you'd studied lead-working in the Dales you know this, that's lead-working in the Roman period and its effect on the local enviroment, and why the oak forests of Northern England no longer exist, you would, if yr school was any use, know this sort of thing..

..whanna play the sheep card ?




golden delicious -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/28/2007 6:21:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..[:)]..yes some, ,then also i've read the descriptions, looked at the geology, and extrapolated backwards based on what i know/saw of Cornish tin-mining


I doubt the two would be related. Malaya and Cornwall are two very different places.

quote:

..your school has a lot to answer for....


This is not the first time you've questioned the standard of my education. You know, you come out with the most outrageous crap sometimes- so you're hardly one to judge.




golden delicious -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/28/2007 6:25:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

you need wood to smelt the crude tin,


Sure. So you cart all the ore to a central smelting plant which is much more efficient that a hundred little ones.

...and lead is completely different from tin. And 1940s Malaya is completely different from Roman-era Britain. People aren't going to be cutting down the nearest tree to feed there crappy little fire. They're going to be moving coal up by rail for a proper industrial process.




ColinWright -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/28/2007 8:30:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..you need wood to smelt the crude tin, so no trees, but then if you'd studied lead-working in the Dales you know this, that's lead-working in the Roman period and its effect on the local enviroment, and why the oak forests of Northern England no longer exist, you would, if yr school was any use, know this sort of thing..


You sure those didn't go in the Neolithic?




ColinWright -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/28/2007 8:34:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit


quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..mm, not really, it's like a moonscape, holes everywhere, slag (waste) heaps everywhere, no cover, no trees..

..the Brits retreated beyond it , me , mmmmm, properly defended it's a nightmare, like after a WW1 bombardement..


You've seen photos of it then?



..[:)]..yes some, ,then also i've read the descriptions, looked at the geology, and extrapolated backwards based on what i know/saw of Cornish tin-mining and expanded it to cover a flattish area in the 1940's..

..sorry my geographically and probably geologically challenged friend, you have a point here ?..

..your school has a lot to answer for....

..




I looked at the pictures too. The resulting terrain didn't look especially difficult. Hardly ideal -- but nothing special.

And of course, your attempt to gloss over the point notwithstanding, that the tin had to come out implies roads of some kind.

Then there's the fact that the British failed to make use of your natural fortress. Maybe it just wasn't all that much of a defensive asset.




a white rabbit -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/29/2007 3:03:06 AM)

..i'll agree on the roads, well tracks, but the lack of use says its not a good defensive position , nahhh, in Indochine no one fought in the Michelin rubber plantations, why ?, cos everyone wanted them in one piece after the war, i suspect the same for the tin mines..




a white rabbit -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/29/2007 3:13:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

you need wood to smelt the crude tin,


Sure. So you cart all the ore to a central smelting plant which is much more efficient that a hundred little ones.

...and lead is completely different from tin. And 1940s Malaya is completely different from Roman-era Britain. People aren't going to be cutting down the nearest tree to feed there crappy little fire. They're going to be moving coal up by rail for a proper industrial process.


..read the Longman's GCSE notes on tin extraction, note the use of heat to extract the crude metal, or better still come and help dig tin with my brother-in-law..

..then of course we have the cooking fires for the thousands of chinese labourers and their families digging the stuff..what do they use ? gas ? coal ? sunshine ?...honestly, you do come up with the most outrageous crap sometimes...

..oh, and what's lead got to do with it, same end of the period table, ok but so ???..




ColinWright -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/29/2007 3:14:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..i'll agree on the roads, well tracks, but the lack of use says its not a good defensive position , nahhh, in Indochine no one fought in the Michelin rubber plantations, why ?, cos everyone wanted them in one piece after the war, i suspect the same for the tin mines..


Could well be -- but that the British didn' use them nevertheless suggests that they weren't that great a potential defensive asset. It's like if I don't dine at 'Le Burman,' the incredibly expensive nouveau Burmese cuisine restaurant that just opened up. Could be that I'm cheap. Could also be that I don't like Burmese food. NOT evidence that I do like Burmese food.




a white rabbit -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/29/2007 3:15:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..you need wood to smelt the crude tin, so no trees, but then if you'd studied lead-working in the Dales you know this, that's lead-working in the Roman period and its effect on the local enviroment, and why the oak forests of Northern England no longer exist, you would, if yr school was any use, know this sort of thing..


You sure those didn't go in the Neolithic?



..no, why ? no records show tin extraction at that period in that area...




ColinWright -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/29/2007 3:30:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..you need wood to smelt the crude tin, so no trees, but then if you'd studied lead-working in the Dales you know this, that's lead-working in the Roman period and its effect on the local enviroment, and why the oak forests of Northern England no longer exist, you would, if yr school was any use, know this sort of thing..


You sure those didn't go in the Neolithic?



..no, why ? no records show tin extraction at that period in that area...



Goats 'n sheep do a number on upland forests. See the entire Middle East.




golden delicious -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/29/2007 11:00:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..then of course we have the cooking fires for the thousands of chinese labourers and their families digging the stuff..what do they use ?


This would explain why cities have such terrible trouble maintaining parks. All those dastardly Chinese keep coming in and chopping up the trees for firewood.

You know, modern economies are rather complex, and things tend to get moved around. You might as well start discussing the need for thousands of acres of rice paddies in the area. Actually...




ColinWright -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/29/2007 7:45:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..then of course we have the cooking fires for the thousands of chinese labourers and their families digging the stuff..what do they use ?


This would explain why cities have such terrible trouble maintaining parks. All those dastardly Chinese keep coming in and chopping up the trees for firewood.


well, around here we did have a problem with Hmong tribesmen hunting people's pet poodles in Golden Gate Park. Would that count?

...Really pretty funny. Multi-culturalism gone berzerk. Mrs.Middleclass comes back to the house in tears because a Stone-Age hunter-gatherer has whacked Fifi.




a white rabbit -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/30/2007 3:59:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..you need wood to smelt the crude tin, so no trees, but then if you'd studied lead-working in the Dales you know this, that's lead-working in the Roman period and its effect on the local enviroment, and why the oak forests of Northern England no longer exist, you would, if yr school was any use, know this sort of thing..


You sure those didn't go in the Neolithic?



..no, why ? no records show tin extraction at that period in that area...



Goats 'n sheep do a number on upland forests. See the entire Middle East.




..only goats out here, sheep are a new introduction, and don't do well in hot sweaty climates, and anyway neither can turn forest into plain, what they do is stop regrowth, a sort of organic weedkiller, but someone has to chop the wood down first..




a white rabbit -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/30/2007 4:11:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..then of course we have the cooking fires for the thousands of chinese labourers and their families digging the stuff..what do they use ?


This would explain why cities have such terrible trouble maintaining parks. All those dastardly Chinese keep coming in and chopping up the trees for firewood.

You know, modern economies are rather complex, and things tend to get moved around. You might as well start discussing the need for thousands of acres of rice paddies in the area. Actually...


..modern cities, modern westernised cities have electricity, bottled gas, and the like, this is an area that's been smelting tin, and feeding the workers from the around 1870 to my present day, ie 1941..

..and the main rice area for Malaya is top left, the flat bit that sticks out into Thailand, altho by the 1960's there's been some development south of KL, which is irrelevant to the period under consideration..

..you see Ben, all economies are complex, all that changes are the goods being traded, how many coal depots where you live ? and how many in mmmm 1950 ? 1930 ? How about Horse Feed traders around you now, and in 1930, and in 1880 ?




a white rabbit -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/30/2007 4:13:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright

quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..then of course we have the cooking fires for the thousands of chinese labourers and their families digging the stuff..what do they use ?


This would explain why cities have such terrible trouble maintaining parks. All those dastardly Chinese keep coming in and chopping up the trees for firewood.


well, around here we did have a problem with Hmong tribesmen hunting people's pet poodles in Golden Gate Park. Would that count?

...Really pretty funny. Multi-culturalism gone berzerk. Mrs.Middleclass comes back to the house in tears because a Stone-Age hunter-gatherer has whacked Fifi.



..gods, i really dislike all but the real poodle, the big one, kebabed Toy-Poodle anyone, on-a-stick ?




ColinWright -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/30/2007 9:19:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..you need wood to smelt the crude tin, so no trees, but then if you'd studied lead-working in the Dales you know this, that's lead-working in the Roman period and its effect on the local enviroment, and why the oak forests of Northern England no longer exist, you would, if yr school was any use, know this sort of thing..


You sure those didn't go in the Neolithic?



..no, why ? no records show tin extraction at that period in that area...



Goats 'n sheep do a number on upland forests. See the entire Middle East.




..only goats out here, sheep are a new introduction, and don't do well in hot sweaty climates, and anyway neither can turn forest into plain, what they do is stop regrowth, a sort of organic weedkiller, but someone has to chop the wood down first..


Yeah -- but the point was with reference to upland forest in drier and colder climes, which is vulnerable to goats/sheep.

You are aware that all those lovely downs in England were forested until Neolithic man got at them?




ColinWright -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (11/30/2007 9:21:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit


quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..then of course we have the cooking fires for the thousands of chinese labourers and their families digging the stuff..what do they use ?


This would explain why cities have such terrible trouble maintaining parks. All those dastardly Chinese keep coming in and chopping up the trees for firewood.

You know, modern economies are rather complex, and things tend to get moved around. You might as well start discussing the need for thousands of acres of rice paddies in the area. Actually...


..modern cities, modern westernised cities have electricity, bottled gas, and the like, this is an area that's been smelting tin, and feeding the workers from the around 1870 to my present day, ie 1941..

..and the main rice area for Malaya is top left, the flat bit that sticks out into Thailand, altho by the 1960's there's been some development south of KL, which is irrelevant to the period under consideration..

..you see Ben, all economies are complex, all that changes are the goods being traded, how many coal depots where you live ? and how many in mmmm 1950 ? 1930 ? How about Horse Feed traders around you now, and in 1930, and in 1880 ?



Yes, Richard. Point is that in the twentieth century -- even in Malaya -- food could be and routinely was transported over large distances. So can fuel. One can assume that the tin mines found it more efficient to keep their tin miners mining tin than force them to spend half the day going about the countryside defoliating it.




a white rabbit -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (12/1/2007 1:56:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright

quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit


quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..then of course we have the cooking fires for the thousands of chinese labourers and their families digging the stuff..what do they use ?


This would explain why cities have such terrible trouble maintaining parks. All those dastardly Chinese keep coming in and chopping up the trees for firewood.

You know, modern economies are rather complex, and things tend to get moved around. You might as well start discussing the need for thousands of acres of rice paddies in the area. Actually...


..modern cities, modern westernised cities have electricity, bottled gas, and the like, this is an area that's been smelting tin, and feeding the workers from the around 1870 to my present day, ie 1941..

..and the main rice area for Malaya is top left, the flat bit that sticks out into Thailand, altho by the 1960's there's been some development south of KL, which is irrelevant to the period under consideration..

..you see Ben, all economies are complex, all that changes are the goods being traded, how many coal depots where you live ? and how many in mmmm 1950 ? 1930 ? How about Horse Feed traders around you now, and in 1930, and in 1880 ?



Yes, Richard. Point is that in the twentieth century -- even in Malaya -- food could be and routinely was transported over large distances. So can fuel. One can assume that the tin mines found it more efficient to keep their tin miners mining tin than force them to spend half the day going about the countryside defoliating it.


..yahh, they just got in more labourers to chop down the trees, so more families and with your system, an accurate one, we now have double the wood use for domestic purposes, then we get onto how many tons of wood, actually charcoal, it takes to make one ton of tin ?..

..food over large distances is hardly new, try the Roman Empire and the grain shipments




a white rabbit -> RE: ..wot's a tin mining area ?.. (12/1/2007 2:04:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..you need wood to smelt the crude tin, so no trees, but then if you'd studied lead-working in the Dales you know this, that's lead-working in the Roman period and its effect on the local enviroment, and why the oak forests of Northern England no longer exist, you would, if yr school was any use, know this sort of thing..


You sure those didn't go in the Neolithic?



..no, why ? no records show tin extraction at that period in that area...



Goats 'n sheep do a number on upland forests. See the entire Middle East.




..only goats out here, sheep are a new introduction, and don't do well in hot sweaty climates, and anyway neither can turn forest into plain, what they do is stop regrowth, a sort of organic weedkiller, but someone has to chop the wood down first..


Yeah -- but the point was with reference to upland forest in drier and colder climes, which is vulnerable to goats/sheep.

You are aware that all those lovely downs in England were forested until Neolithic man got at them?



...not just colder climes, the current reckoning is the desrtification of southern Egypt is down to the timber used during the pyramid building, both for construction and cooking fires, then came the goats, and then the desert, mind you i reckon the Roman grain fields had something to do with it too....




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