RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (Full Version)

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Jim D Burns -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 7:26:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
Repairs dont take supply in stock the reduciton you see is from bombing the base not from repairing the AF so there will be no change to this (I will double check this point)


Hi Andy,

It's the engineers who are repairing the base who draw the extra supplies, so having no ability to turn off repairs does drain supplies steadily for no good reason. I think it’s the same amount of supplies they draw when expanding a base, not 100% sure though.

Jim



Andy Mac -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 7:27:56 PM)

No we have not adjusted the rate at which HQ's take on replacement squads when being rebuilt (my personal experience from stock is faster than that if the correct squad type is in the pool) The issue is often that smalkl units upgrade devices and then are waiting on the pool to fill out.

We are now naming all squads by year so you will see which squad each unit has

i.e. Indian 41 Rifle Section
USMC 41 Squad etc etc

Upgrades ok units may now upgrade TOE's there will be rules for this i.e. must be near a command HQ and in rest mode apart from that after the TOE upgrade (or downgrade) thye need to fill up to the new TOE by taking squads from the pool

To use a couple of examples

1st Burma Div starts as a special Burmese/Indian Div TOE all broken down at start into Bde or Bn sized forces
in mid 42 it is renamed to 39th Indian Div
in late 42 it reduces its TOE as it becomes a Training Div

Indian Army Divs start with very very low TOE whereas Indian Divs returning from the Middle East i.e. 5th Indian Div start with a much fuller TOE.

Over time these change gaingin some equipment types losing others and for Indian Divs replacing British Squads (which are VERY scarce) with Indian ones.




Andy Mac -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 7:28:55 PM)

I think you are wrong on this Jim but I will check repairs do not take supplies its merely having the squads in the base and feeding them thats taking them.

But as I said I will check



Andy Mac -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 7:33:33 PM)

Ummm Brady I think those are beyond what I can answer at present I will revert when able.

Madagasker is out though

Railways

The new strategic mode means that units using railways need to control both ends of a rail line, need to spend time packing and are very vulnerable to attack while on train - you need to get the marching boots out to advance no more blitzkrieg along the railway - although coup de mains are possible to sieze both ends

Movement will be slower in Admirals Editions

Grotius - I am going to hold off explaining the new hex movement system for now as it is still being testede and reviewed there are a few quirks that are quite nice that I may end up claiming are by design and I dont want to give the game away until I am sure of where we will end up [:D][:D]



Brady -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 7:40:15 PM)

Do Japanese Engenering units model some Enginear vehicals, or do they still just use humans and abstrat thier combat abalitys, in many Big battles during the war Japanese Enginear units provided large manpower researves, which in game was represented by giving them a limited combat value. Also many Japanese enginear units that didi have Earth moving equipment did not in game. Also many Japanese "Truck" or transport units that were used as pools for other units were not in game and as a result many units that benifited from having truck transpot available did noit have any represented at all in game has this been looked at?

BTW TY for answering all these questions.[:)]



Jim D Burns -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 7:41:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
(my personal experience from stock is faster than that if the correct squad type is in the pool)


I've got over 100 Marine squads available in pool (closer to 200 I think), tens of thousands of extra supplies and the Central Pacific Command HQ at the base but the 2nd Marine Division still only draws about 1 squad every 3-5 days. Granted this is a CHS game, but I don’t think replacement rates are different in CHS from stock.

Jim



Andy Mac -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 7:41:42 PM)

No its not

Rest mode makes it easier to take troops and recover fatigue just dont get caught in it by the enemy or you can get routed.

Check you modes carefully guys or you will pay



Andy Mac -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 7:44:40 PM)

Sorry Jim answering to many question to quicky ;)

The new rest mode makes it easier and quicker to rebuild forces just dont get caught in it by the enemy

Brady another team member did the Japanese ORBAT and I cannot recall where we ended up on the Japanese engineers I think we made more of them combat engineers as opposed to construction engineers to compensate for this.

Eng vehicles for the Japanese are still thin on the ground

I will check after the next build where it ended up.



Andy Mac -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 7:47:23 PM)

Guys remember we are still WIP on some of this stuff so fair warning anything I say could change !!!! (although I don't think it will)




Jim D Burns -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 7:48:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
Sorry Jim answering to many question to quicky ;)


Not a problem Andy, thanks for the clarification. And thanks for the time invested, I guarantee you it is greatly appreciated by all.

Jim



Andy Mac -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 8:00:34 PM)

Had it confirmed by the gurus repairs do not use supply only base construction uses supply(af,port,forts).



Andy Mac -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 8:02:22 PM)

Actually you should thank Pauk/PZB/SPrior and Chex for putting up with the lack of turns over the last few weeks which I concentrated on this !!!!.

We have a long way still to go but we are getting there and I think you will all love it when its out !!!!



treespider -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 8:03:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac



Grotius - I am going to hold off explaining the new hex movement system for now as it is still being testede and reviewed there are a few quirks that are quite nice that I may end up claiming are by design and I dont want to give the game away until I am sure of where we will end up [:D][:D]




I'd have to say it was all by design...[;)]



Andy Mac -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 8:04:11 PM)

I am going to name no names but we have a superb coder, great ORBAT gurus and a former team leader hanging about who did a lot of the new land system thinking - I happen to be the one here answering questions but this has been a huge time comittment from a lot of people and we aim to please



WingedIncubus -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 8:21:03 PM)

If ground movement becomes "hexside", how ground combat will be changed? IIRC, hexside movement introduces the possibility of flanking attacks. Will AE bring WitP closer to a TOAW-like design as far as ground warfare is concerned? If yes, can you reveal a few of the design changes to make us drool more?

After all, even if each hex represents 40 nautical miles, it is still a huge area that can take days to cross in 1day/turn. So, it makes me curious to know what will change. :)



Andy Mac -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 8:27:20 PM)

OK just to be clear we did not re write the land combat model that was beyond the scope its still the same mechanics defend, bombard, shock attack deliberate attack.

Exploitation has changed and hex owership and the hex edges but it is still a hex based game where units need to be in the same hex to interact.

What is different is that each hex side is also now controlled and it is the hex edge that controls retreats, movement and supply.

But this is still being tested so can I ask for patience on this point.

Andy



Andy Mac -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 8:36:56 PM)

Flanking attacks at macro level will be more possible because of the reduced map scale and slower movement but not as an in hex attack option.

Heading home keep the questions coming I will be back online in 2 hours



Captain Cruft -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 8:50:13 PM)

Awesome! I love Strategic Transfer [:D]

Do rail lines affect normal land movement at all now? Are they perhaps considered as Trails or Roads or is it reduced to the factors of the under-lying terrain type?



Apollo11 -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 9:06:23 PM)

Hi all,

I was "redirected" from "Air" subforum to here regarding my FLAK questions... As it can be evident from many many tests I made in WitP months and years ago (and published here at the forum with quite big discussion following those) I am very interested in following issues:


FLAK Gap (and similarily related stuff)...


#1 (2005)
"IMPORTANT: Huge undefended "empty" zone in AA..."
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=960298


#2 (2006)
"Humble request for Don and Joe regarding AA WitP programming..."
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1131500


#3 (2007) - Most recent thread:
The Flak Gap
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1461551


Can someone please answer, if possible of course, whether those issues were tackled?

Many thanks in advance!


Leo "Apollo11"



Erik Rutins -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 9:07:41 PM)

I don't know if it's in yet, but I know Joe discussed this with me and there was a solution for the flak gap in the works.



Apollo11 -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 9:10:44 PM)

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I don't know if it's in yet, but I know Joe discussed this with me and there was a solution for the flak gap in the works.


Thanks Erik!

I will keep my fingers crossed... [:)]


Leo "Apollo11"



treespider -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 9:20:27 PM)

I think the proposal was to make it fuzzy....



BigJ62 -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 9:40:25 PM)

Hexside control:

Allied unit in hex "A" and av is 40+ and no enemy in hex, result is allied unit controls hex and all interior hexsides.

Japanese unit in adjacent hex "B" east of allied unit, same conditions as above.

Allied unit moves at half speed because it is in operations mode "Combat" moves east crossing the Japaneses' west hexside changing it from enemy to friendly control. The allied unit is not allowed to cross any interior hexside that is enemy controled, movement restrictions become more severe for retreating units so, if the allied unit is defeated it must retreat only across friendly hexsides and away from the enemy(had to be this way due to retreat pathing problems) and toward a friendly base if any of these conditions are not met the unit is destroyed.

Same situation except there are two allied units and a river between the two hexes, the first allied unit must shock attack because the opposing hexside is enemy controled however the second unit does not have to shock attack because hexside control has changed at this point.

There are many other possibile situations.

p.s. On land we calculate distance at 46.03 st miles which equals 40nm. When marching rails are considered similar to Witp1 "Trails" but less than minor roads. Operations modes effect movement, combat, fatigue and recovery(fatigue, disruption, disablement and morale).

btw treespider originally designed the hexside control stuff however we did make a few some small changes.



treespider -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 9:49:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

Hexside control:

Allied unit in hex "A" and av is 40+ and no enemy in hex, result is allied unit controls hex and all interior hexsides.

Japanese unit in adjacent hex "B" east of allied unit, same conditions as above.

Allied unit moves at half speed because it is in operations mode "Combat" moves east crossing the Japaneses' west hexside changing it from enemy to friendly control. The allied unit is not allowed to cross any interior hexside that is enemy controled, movement restrictions become more severe for retreating units so, if the allied unit is defeated it must retreat only across friendly hexsides and away from the enemy(had to be this way due to retreat pathing problems) and toward a friendly base if any of these conditions are not met the unit is destroyed.


So picture each hex as a room with six doors (hexsides)...if you are the only person in the room you can leave the room through any of the six doors...however if someone enters the room you no longer control the door through which they entered...you either have to force them back through the door or leave the room through a door you control.



treespider -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 9:50:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigJ62


btw treespider originally designed the hexside control stuff however we did make a few some small changes.



I can't wait to see what they are...



Andy Mac -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 10:25:42 PM)

OK back temporarily BigJ62 explained new hex stuff I am still playing with retreats and sup[ply movement is some circumstances but in essence what he said is whats in.

Flak not sure I will need to check it was a long time ago



Andy Mac -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 10:40:56 PM)

There are so many new things its impossible to keep em all straight [:D][:D]

But the one I think you will all love the most ...... its a toss up between the new editor and the new map.

On ORBATS we have done a lot of work to give a taster we now have three categories of unit disbands with different rules for each

1. Mandatory Withdraw (cannot be stopped by PP's) i.e. 7th Armoured Bde heading to the Middle East devices in these units leave the theatre with the unit.
2. Mandatory Disband (i.e. 267th Indian Armoured Bde, most Dutch units) devices for these units go to the pool and may be redeployed. on the disband date.
3. Optional Disband - want to remove a few units to free up replacements - well now you can it requires the unit to be in akey base or have a LOT of supply to prevent cut off bases disbanding and in some cases costs VP's but it is allowed !!!!.

The options are more relevant for the allies




Andy Mac -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 10:47:45 PM)

p.s sorry to be clear none of the above can be stopped by PP's but you do get a report showing when they occur



Knavey -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 11:18:21 PM)

Andy,

You said we could free up replacements by disbanding units.  There must have been some massive changes to how units draw replacements because I have no shortage of replacements in the pools.  It just seems that it takes forever for one to get drawn out of the pool.

Has the draw system been changed so much that we may be experiencing shortages in the ground unit replacement pools?



Brady -> RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread (12/7/2007 11:24:23 PM)

Garasion requirements in China and their efects on game play...Have these been looked at?



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