RE: ASW Missions (Full Version)

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spence -> RE: ASW Missions (1/21/2008 5:51:16 PM)

quote:

Actually, thanks to code-breaking, we knew where most of them were most of the time. The Japs had their shipping (naval and civilian) reporting their "noontime positions" back to Tokyo every day. Only problems arose when the ship couldn't calculate it's own position accurately to report it.


Useful information certainly. Due to the volume of signal traffic thus sent probably way too much information requiring the code breakers to concentrate mostly on certain important call signs (like those of ships in the KB) rather than worrying about the noon position of the Obscure Maru #31 every day. Keeping track of IJN subs probably did fall within the category of important call signs though.

As far as effective ASW operations are concerned I was speaking about Allied efforts to counter the U-boats in the Atlantic. Lacking SIGINT or a geographical chokepoint roving groups of destroyers and even destroyers with carriers were pretty ineffective except when they operated near convoys. The convoy was bait for the U-boats...you didn't have to go look for them. The hard part of the whole operation (getting your weapons systems within range of the enemy) was, of necessity, completed by the enemy. Once sufficient forces were finally (1943) committed to the battle, the submarines died.




Don Bowen -> RE: ASW Missions (1/21/2008 6:57:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

IIRC there is a limit of maybe 99 aircraft on a carrier. In AE will the code be able to handle the 130 aircraft for the CV Midway?


Limit was raised in 1.8.something.





mdiehl -> RE: ASW Missions (1/21/2008 7:21:01 PM)

Defeating submarines was a science that the UK and US (by dint initially of UK training) were uniquely good at. Contributing technologies included shipboard HFDF (something the Japanese attempted during the late war), ahead-thrown contact exploding weapons that did not mess up sonar unless they hit something (mousetrap/hedgehog), centimetric radar that could detect a conning tower or any other object down to about the size of a late German uboat snorkel head, and active asdic that was flatly superior to anything mounted by the Axis (although the Germans had very good passive acoustic listening systems).

On top of these add aircraft with look-down radar and acoustic torpedoes and you get a pretty good gee-whiz factor that was not remotely matched by the Axis powers.

However, the allies also led organizationally. Thus by late 1942 pretty much every American convoy (thanks to RN instruction) had not only a convoy commander but also a separate ASW asset commander with a dedicated command center just for plotting sub contacts, controlling ASW assets, and hunting subs. AFAIK the Japanese never developed that sort of command and control center for each merchie convoy. They also never developed anything remotely like a dedicated hunter-killer TG of the sort that the US built around CVEs.



mdiehl -> RE: ASW Missions (1/21/2008 7:24:31 PM)

@Tankerace -

Would the revised OOB include USS Terror (CML) or the other WAGCs that were left out of WitP?



Terminus -> RE: ASW Missions (1/21/2008 7:40:15 PM)

[8|]



witpqs -> RE: ASW Missions (1/21/2008 7:42:17 PM)

Don - thanks, guess I missed that one.

mdiehl - one point, I believe that the Germans first deployed the acoustic homing torpedo.



mdiehl -> RE: ASW Missions (1/21/2008 8:39:07 PM)

quote:

mdiehl - one point, I believe that the Germans first deployed the acoustic homing torpedo.


The German Falke (G7E/T4) and the US FIDO (Mark 24) both entered general service (deployed) in the same month (March 1943) as a consequence of parallel arms development initiatives in both nations.

Their applications were quite different. Falke was sub-launched and designed as a ship-killer. FIDO was air-dropped and designed as an ASW torpedo.



Tankerace -> RE: ASW Missions (1/21/2008 9:10:52 PM)

That's a roger. Along with a host of other little goodies. WAGCs, Fairmiles, Dutch Gouvernmentsmarine Schiffs, etc. PLus other fun stuff that was left out of WitP with the bigger ships. Gearings, Gearing Radar Pickets, Tench class subs, "Gunboat" submarines with 2 5in/25s, the ability to choose the final AA fit on some ships (for example the New Mexicos. Players can choose the New Mexico's fit of retaining 5in/25s and 5in/51s, Mississippi's ad hoc all 5in/25s, or send the ships for overhaul and have Idaho's 10 single 5in/38s).

quote:

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

@Tankerace -

Would the revised OOB include USS Terror (CML) or the other WAGCs that were left out of WitP?




JWE -> RE: ASW Missions (1/21/2008 9:45:53 PM)

HOT ZOOTS and OUT-FREAKIN-STANDING !!

Few months ago I asked MBS, LLC (Tim Colton) if they could do specific queries from their database, told them what I wanted and why.

Just got a reply from Gus Moutzalias with everything my little heart could have desired, and much, much, more (except the redhead). He sent me a database of every US Maritime Commission ship built from Jan. '41 to July '46, by name, shipyard, commission date, and including disposition, if known. This is every C1 (subdivided by variant: C1-A, C1-B, C1-S, C1-M), C2 (with variants) C3 (with variants), and has C4s, P1s, P2s, and if you know ships, you will know all the others I don't want to bother mentioning. He key coded every ship that commissioned into the USN, so they can be excluded from a strictly merchie list. He also key coded ships taken by USAT as troopers, so those can be separately listed.

Yeow !!! Woof !!! AE is gonna be sweet !! Lobscouse got a mess o' greens, some ship braid, and a snapper turkle big as yo hat, yow !!



Ron Saueracker -> RE: ASW Missions (1/21/2008 11:10:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

That's a roger. Along with a host of other little goodies. WAGCs, Fairmiles, Dutch Gouvernmentsmarine Schiffs, etc. PLus other fun stuff that was left out of WitP with the bigger ships. Gearings, Gearing Radar Pickets, Tench class subs, "Gunboat" submarines with 2 5in/25s, the ability to choose the final AA fit on some ships (for example the New Mexicos. Players can choose the New Mexico's fit of retaining 5in/25s and 5in/51s, Mississippi's ad hoc all 5in/25s, or send the ships for overhaul and have Idaho's 10 single 5in/38s).

quote:

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

@Tankerace -

Would the revised OOB include USS Terror (CML) or the other WAGCs that were left out of WitP?




Wow, sounds like what we started with CHS years back!!! Can't wait for this Justin.



TOMLABEL -> RE: ASW Missions (1/22/2008 5:20:06 AM)

Looks like you hit the motherload, John!!!!!! [X(] I just hope the BOS has designs on all these babies!! Looks like we gotta lotta work to to!!

TOMLABEL



Dixie -> RE: ASW Missions (1/22/2008 2:46:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

That's a roger. Along with a host of other little goodies. WAGCs, Fairmiles, Dutch Gouvernmentsmarine Schiffs, etc. PLus other fun stuff that was left out of WitP with the bigger ships. Gearings, Gearing Radar Pickets, Tench class subs, "Gunboat" submarines with 2 5in/25s, the ability to choose the final AA fit on some ships (for example the New Mexicos. Players can choose the New Mexico's fit of retaining 5in/25s and 5in/51s, Mississippi's ad hoc all 5in/25s, or send the ships for overhaul and have Idaho's 10 single 5in/38s).



[sm=happy0065.gif]

I'll finally have a use for some of the extra ships I've got art for [:D] Are the Gearing DD/DDR going to be another example of the multiple classes from the same basic hull (like the four-stackers)?

[image]local://upfiles/20142/E39C536C13544EC39F736FEC5962BA18.jpg[/image]



Mike Solli -> RE: ASW Missions (1/22/2008 10:18:42 PM)

I know this is nit-picky, but here goes:

Is LST-66 going to be in the game?  She's not in stock. 

My Uncle was on board her for the duration of the war.

Thanks.



Terminus -> RE: ASW Missions (1/22/2008 10:23:05 PM)

I'm sure she will, but was somewhat surprised that I missed her myself when I scrubbed the LST list for my mod...



[image]local://upfiles/16369/29CB1ECA2AA74D3FB9585C8CAB332B06.jpg[/image]



Mike Solli -> RE: ASW Missions (1/22/2008 10:31:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I'm sure she will, but was somewhat surprised that I missed her myself when I scrubbed the LST list for my mod...


Thanks T! My Uncle was right there and moved literally less than an hour to there before the kamikaze hit there. [X(] [:D]



[image]local://upfiles/1598/64898B186E514335A0FF72C7644BC738.jpg[/image]



Terminus -> RE: ASW Missions (1/22/2008 10:32:09 PM)

That's handy![:D]



JWE -> RE: ASW Missions (1/23/2008 1:47:43 AM)

Agree with T.
I will make it a personal priority to see that LST-66 is in the game.
I can't draw your Uncle runnin from the Kamikazes, but I'll have him in mind.

Ciao.



JWE -> RE: ASW Missions (1/23/2008 1:50:37 AM)

Done!



Terminus -> RE: ASW Missions (1/23/2008 1:52:40 AM)

Ta-Da![:D]



Mike Solli -> RE: ASW Missions (1/23/2008 4:42:41 AM)

Wow!  Thanks Guys.  Now, as a JFB, I hope I never run accross her and sink her.  Then my favorite cousin would never be. [X(]



Ron Saueracker -> RE: ASW Missions (1/23/2008 7:11:14 PM)

Cool merchie stuff John![X(]



Chad Harrison -> RE: Ship Sunk Screen Numbers (1/23/2008 7:52:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kid

Can you list the number of ships sunk for each class of ships on the Ship Sunk Screen? It would only show the numbers for the ships displayed. For example, if you turned off Allie it would only count the Jap ships sunk. It would really help with Battle Damage Assessment.

[image]local://upfiles/5534/8DF7F3B56C474A2FBF436C49304F23E0.jpg[/image]


I just wanted to second this. In the ship selection screen at ports, it lists the number of ships along the right side of the screen, and I have never understood why it doesnt do the same with the ships sunk list. Having the game do the math for you would be very, very helpfull to see quickly what has been lost. Whether its along the top or the side or somewhere else doesnt really matter.

Thanks.



Tankerace -> RE: ASW Missions (1/23/2008 11:04:20 PM)

Yes.

As it is now all Gearings that were historically converted to Pickets arrive as such, however players can convert any Gearing class destroyer to a Gearing radar picket. And as a special bonus you can leave off the emergency AA refit, keep the last bank of TT but losing some 40mm (the Pickets with the AA refit had no TT).

Speaking of Flush Deckers, that's even changed a lot. Each class (Clemson and Wickes) can be converted to the following:

DD (basic 4 4inchers, pre war style).
DD Long Range (Gain 20mms, K Guns, lose one stack and boiler, some speed, get more fuel and endurance)
DD Escort (replace all 4inchers with 6 3in/50s. Historically only Atlantic, but players have the option to convert)

And then of course AVD, DM, DMS, APDs. However rather than those ships automatically changing like in stock, it is now up to the player to convert them. So If late in the war you have a bunch of 4 stackers not doing anything, you can convert the lot of them to APDs. And any of the converstions can be converted back to a DD status (still have to put that in). HOWEVER it depends on the date. If it is before 1943, they will convert back to DD Long Range, if after to Escorts (because in '43 most of the conversions will have lost their 4inch guns).

You'll quickly find that the Wickes class are far too short legged for Pacific duty, and probably convert most of those anyway. Clemsons at least have a decent range. But Wickes Long Rangers can, in 1943, add a hedgehog. So they aren't completely useless.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

That's a roger. Along with a host of other little goodies. WAGCs, Fairmiles, Dutch Gouvernmentsmarine Schiffs, etc. PLus other fun stuff that was left out of WitP with the bigger ships. Gearings, Gearing Radar Pickets, Tench class subs, "Gunboat" submarines with 2 5in/25s, the ability to choose the final AA fit on some ships (for example the New Mexicos. Players can choose the New Mexico's fit of retaining 5in/25s and 5in/51s, Mississippi's ad hoc all 5in/25s, or send the ships for overhaul and have Idaho's 10 single 5in/38s).



[sm=happy0065.gif]

I'll finally have a use for some of the extra ships I've got art for [:D] Are the Gearing DD/DDR going to be another example of the multiple classes from the same basic hull (like the four-stackers)?

[image]local://upfiles/20142/E39C536C13544EC39F736FEC5962BA18.jpg[/image]





Feinder -> RE: ASW Missions (1/23/2008 11:14:47 PM)

Please tell me the HMS Agamemnon (and/or HMS Menestheus) are in AE.

She servered a -very- important fuction....

-F-



Panther Bait -> RE: ASW Missions (1/24/2008 12:43:27 AM)

As auxiliary minelayers or as entertainment ships? [:D]

With a brewery installed they should really up the morale of any LCU in the port hex.



anarchyintheuk -> RE: ASW Missions (1/24/2008 12:48:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

She servered a -very- important fuction....

-F-


Watch it, this is a family forum.

BTW, how is that not an actual word?



Feinder -> RE: ASW Missions (1/24/2008 2:20:51 AM)

"With a brewery installed they should really up the morale of any LCU in the port hex. "

Bingo.  Brewery ships.  Talk about wanting that assignment!

-F-



Tankerace -> RE: ASW Missions (1/24/2008 9:24:52 AM)

Talk about the morale penalty (and the explosion) if that thing ever ate a torpedo though.

KaBOOM!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

"With a brewery installed they should really up the morale of any LCU in the port hex. "

Bingo.  Brewery ships.  Talk about wanting that assignment!

-F-




Ron Saueracker -> RE: ASW Missions (1/24/2008 2:14:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Talk about the morale penalty (and the explosion) if that thing ever ate a torpedo though.

KaBOOM!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

"With a brewery installed they should really up the morale of any LCU in the port hex. "

Bingo.  Brewery ships.  Talk about wanting that assignment!

-F-




KABLAMMO!!!TM



el cid again -> query re conversions (1/24/2008 5:44:16 PM)

If a ship is set to upgrade

1) is there a cost in shipbuilding (or repair) points to do so?

2) is there a reasonable delay to do so? can we set that delay?




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