RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (Full Version)

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mdiehl -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/25/2008 8:02:21 PM)

quote:

When ac are sent on kamikaze missions they do not intend to return to base.
Alas, their actual striking range is doubled!


Alas, the majority of them were sent out with half fuel loads because they weren't expected to have to fly home.



Mobeer -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/26/2008 1:48:49 AM)

The problem with kamikaze flying with half a fuel load, or to twice it's normal range, is that if it finds no worthwhile target, it cannot turn back. A fully fuelled kamikaze at normal range attacks with fuel on board (to burn a target) or returns to fly again.

This is something briefly covered in 'Nemesis' by Max Hastings (p424), though no generalisation is made from the single unit reported on.



Dili -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/27/2008 8:44:57 AM)

I am sorry if this was answered, but will it be possible for recon flights to have fighter escort?



herwin -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/27/2008 11:25:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

I am sorry if this was answered, but will it be possible for recon flights to have fighter escort?


No. On the other hand, air strikes do some recon.



Rainer -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/27/2008 11:56:11 PM)

Interesting.
How do you know, are you part of the AE team now?



herwin -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/28/2008 12:19:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

Interesting.
How do you know, are you part of the AE team now?


Sorry, I misunderstood your question. Let me rephrase my answers. First the game already does some recon during air strikes. Second, air recon has historically not been escorted, for a whole lot of reasons. I did the original concept for a air recon system, so I have a little background here. Allowing players to escort recon would be unhistorical.

Better, now?

There are basically three types of air recon--surveillance, mapping, and investigation of specific points. Surveillance means flying out and checking out the traffic. You do it in patrol aircraft and it's rather difficult to escort a long range patrol aircraft for very long. Mapping is similar--you're recording what you see. A bit easier to escort, except that the mapping aircraft flies really high. To do a point reconnaisance, you fly in, take a look around, and fly out. Stealth and surprise is very important, and escorts are not very useful. Another thing you want to do is to avoid giving the enemy an idea about what you're interested in. That means maskerovka. If you were to escort your recon flights, that would be so many sorties that you might as well fight it out.

'Nuff said.



Dili -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/28/2008 1:13:19 AM)

In Europe and in Africa escorted recon was common as battlefield recon or as a trap.



HMSWarspite -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/28/2008 1:17:48 AM)

Only tactical recon, which almost doesn't happen in WitP. Strategic recon was almost without exception unescorted.

Also, what do you want to escort with? The PR version of an aircraft is almost always higher performance than the base (due to removal of guns, armour etc).



Rainer -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/28/2008 1:19:26 AM)

It wasn't my question. It was Dili's question.
I only wondered why you feel qualified to answer his question.
You didn't, as you clearified. You just stated what you feel had happened "historically".
You may easily confuse people by not making clear what you are talking about.
Thanks for your reply.




Rainer -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/28/2008 1:25:31 AM)

That's what herwin pointed out.
Most recce planes were superior in speed and especially altitude to fighters. Most were either not armed at all or had only very light defensive arming.
In WitP the Lockheed F5, which is basically a recce version of the P-38, is a good example.



herwin -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/28/2008 10:44:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HMSWarspite

Only tactical recon, which almost doesn't happen in WitP. Strategic recon was almost without exception unescorted.

Also, what do you want to escort with? The PR version of an aircraft is almost always higher performance than the base (due to removal of guns, armour etc).


Sorry, my experience was strategic recon.



Dili -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/28/2008 12:34:32 PM)

Okay. Depends, that works better for Pacific War, not so good in Europe.

Anyway i have another question: When a unit changes planes will it loose part of its proficiency?  and if changing to another kind of operation Bomber to Fighter the drop is bigger?



herwin -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/28/2008 1:39:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

Okay. Depends, that works better for Pacific War, not so good in Europe.

Anyway i have another question: When a unit changes planes will it loose part of its proficiency?  and if changing to another kind of operation Bomber to Fighter the drop is bigger?


Not being a member of the team, I don't know. Currently there is no drop.



treespider -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/28/2008 1:57:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

Okay. Depends, that works better for Pacific War, not so good in Europe.

Anyway i have another question: When a unit changes planes will it loose part of its proficiency? and if changing to another kind of operation Bomber to Fighter the drop is bigger?



Profiency in what?

In AE Pilots can be proficient at many different things. Running fighter planes on bombing missions to train them up will make them proficient at bombing but not A2A.



Shark7 -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/28/2008 5:32:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

Okay. Depends, that works better for Pacific War, not so good in Europe.

Anyway i have another question: When a unit changes planes will it loose part of its proficiency? and if changing to another kind of operation Bomber to Fighter the drop is bigger?



Profiency in what?

In AE Pilots can be proficient at many different things. Running fighter planes on bombing missions to train them up will make them proficient at bombing but not A2A.


Somehow I can hear a collective sigh of relief from a few Nationalist Chinese divisions as they won't be used quite as much for training dummies.

It really does make sense that a fighter squadron doesn't gain A2A XP by strafing hapless infantry units, this will be a much welcomed change.



Dili -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/29/2008 4:27:20 PM)

That's good, so a part of my question is answered. But i think in WITP changing from Ki-43 to Ki-61 or any other plane usually would mean a loss of temporary capability or a training period. Right now an unit can change without much trouble.



Shark7 -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/29/2008 6:27:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

That's good, so a part of my question is answered. But i think in WITP changing from Ki-43 to Ki-61 or any other plane usually would mean a loss of temporary capability or a training period. Right now an unit can change without much trouble.


What should probably happen is that upgraded squadrons get taken out of service for a 2 week period to simulate the process of familiarizing the pilots with their new planes. A fighter is a fighter, but not all fighters are created equal. Each plane handles differently, and has a slightly different instrument layout that the pilots need time to learn. Pilots need little time 'behind the wheel' to learn these things.



Barb -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/29/2008 8:53:56 PM)

Of course there are two kinds of upgrades.
1. Oscar Ib to Oscar II or A6M2 to A6M3 for this shouldnt be needed the longer "transformation"time
2. P-39 to P-38, B-20 to B-25... this should need the longer time



Flying Tiger -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/30/2008 6:23:46 AM)

quote:

Of course there are two kinds of upgrades.
1. Oscar Ib to Oscar II or A6M2 to A6M3 for this shouldnt be needed the longer "transformation"time
2. P-39 to P-38, B-20 to B-25... this should need the longer time


what exactly does a B20 look like??



Shark7 -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/30/2008 9:21:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flying Tiger

quote:

Of course there are two kinds of upgrades.
1. Oscar Ib to Oscar II or A6M2 to A6M3 for this shouldnt be needed the longer "transformation"time
2. P-39 to P-38, B-20 to B-25... this should need the longer time


what exactly does a B20 look like??


He probably meant the A-20 Boston.



HMSWarspite -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/30/2008 12:50:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flying Tiger

quote:

Of course there are two kinds of upgrades.
1. Oscar Ib to Oscar II or A6M2 to A6M3 for this shouldnt be needed the longer "transformation"time
2. P-39 to P-38, B-20 to B-25... this should need the longer time


what exactly does a B20 look like??


http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=b20&um=1&ie=UTF-8[:D]



Barb -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/30/2008 2:22:49 PM)

sry, A-20 Boston... [8|]



Flying Tiger -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (3/31/2008 4:10:14 AM)

No worries. I figured A20 - just messing with your head!!



m10bob -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (4/4/2008 2:10:44 PM)

Of course I am extremely impressed with all I have read on this thread..Beaucoup kudos to Ian and the air mob.

Q.: Is it possible to limit the amount of morale hits and/or ops losses depending on the type of mission?
(I have always had serious concerns about transport pilots morale going in the toilet so quick. I would hate to think so much of our airspace today is loaded with similarly depressed people flying 737's, etc.)[:)]



m10bob -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (4/4/2008 2:24:13 PM)

With so many slots open now, will planes be included, even though they may have had a limited combat role, like the Brewster Buccaneer?



Terminus -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (4/4/2008 2:34:06 PM)

Don't think that one made the cut for the official release, but there's certainly plenty of room for it.



Mark VII -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (4/4/2008 8:18:56 PM)

On a similar track. Have wondered why a large loss of morale after a successfull naval/air battle at three hex range. Two IJN carriers have just defeated two USN CV's sinking one and damaging the other with only light damage to one IJN CV. To add to that there were only 10% losses in CV a/c, yet morale went from an average of 95 to the 50-60 range.

Why?

Pilots are saying to their commander...We just kicked the American's ?sses, only lost 2vals, 3 kates and a zero, they are no match for us, lets go and finish them off! Banzai! Banzai! Banzai! Banzai!

Air Group Commander says: No, you should of sunk every ship they had...you are bad pilots....you wasted valuable torpedoes with only 5 reported hits out 24 dropped.....you divebomber pilots wern't much better, do you have any idea how expensive those bombs that you are dropping willynilly are? You need to spend the next day confined to your quarters thinking about your failures...bad pilots!....off to your rooms, no sake tonight.....be gone!


quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Q.: Is it possible to limit the amount of morale hits and/or ops losses depending on the type of mission?
(I have always had serious concerns about transport pilots morale going in the toilet so quick. I would hate to think so much of our airspace today is loaded with similarly depressed people flying 737's, etc.)[:)]




herwin -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (4/4/2008 8:31:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark VII

On a similar track. Have wondered why a large loss of morale after a successfull naval/air battle at three hex range. Two IJN carriers have just defeated two USN CV's sinking one and damaging the other with only light damage to one IJN CV. To add to that there were only 10% losses in CV a/c, yet morale went from an average of 95 to the 50-60 range.

Why?

Pilots are saying to their commander...We just kicked the American's ?sses, only lost 2vals, 3 kates and a zero, they are no match for us, lets go and finish them off! Banzai! Banzai! Banzai! Banzai!

Air Group Commander says: No, you should of sunk every ship they had...you are bad pilots....you wasted valuable torpedoes with only 5 reported hits out 24 dropped.....you divebomber pilots wern't much better, do you have any idea how expensive those bombs that you are dropping willynilly are? You need to spend the next day confined to your quarters thinking about your failures...bad pilots!....off to your rooms, no sake tonight.....be gone!


quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Q.: Is it possible to limit the amount of morale hits and/or ops losses depending on the type of mission?
(I have always had serious concerns about transport pilots morale going in the toilet so quick. I would hate to think so much of our airspace today is loaded with similarly depressed people flying 737's, etc.)[:)]




It goes the other way, too. B17s are getting about 33% hits in February 1942 (RHSRAO), with search aircraft performing similarly.



treespider -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (4/6/2008 10:22:06 PM)

Air Team lead care to answer questions about the new Aerial Torpedo routines work - CV vs Land based torpedo planes ?
....and the related discussion of how those torpedoes will be targetted?

These issues were brought up in the Naval thread.



Dili -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (4/8/2008 1:57:40 PM)

Will it be possible to do Night Training for attack/bomber planes?



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