RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (Full Version)

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Weidi72 -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (12/31/2009 11:19:08 AM)

I changed a british bomber squadron to transport planes. mission before was naval recon 50%. after converting, there was no change. i had to use the "stand down"-button. it's not easy to see it, because this type of mission is not to order for them.



crsutton -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (1/2/2010 5:06:44 PM)

Hi,

I am playing scen 2 via email. It is April 1942 and I have just gotten a squadron of Beaufort I torpedo bombers at karachi. However, I notice that Beaufort I type is not listed to begin production until 4/43. Is this an error? Should the plane begin production in 4/42 instead?

Thanks,



Fopkob -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (1/3/2010 9:07:16 AM)

Hello, i'm new to the game. And i must say it is great!

Just started my first full war scen #1 against allied AI. But one thing bothers me. AFAIK, first Ki-49-Ia were used against Chinese in auturm 1941. By december 1941 61st Sentai was reequiping Ki-21 to Ki-49-Ia, but due to slow production fully refited in february 1942. Production of Ki-49-IIa started in august 1942. This doesn't correlate with in-game OOB - Ki-49-Ia availability date 4/42, Ki-49-IIa availability date 9/42. Error in OOB?
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/japan/aircraft/bomber/nakajima-ki-49-donryu-helen.asp

-ADD-
No G8N in game? Why? More prototypes build when compared to Kikka or J8W. It would be nice to have G8N, G10N and Ki-91. :D



hunchback77 -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (1/3/2010 5:01:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Hi,

I am playing scen 2 via email. It is April 1942 and I have just gotten a squadron of Beaufort I torpedo bombers at karachi. However, I notice that Beaufort I type is not listed to begin production until 4/43. Is this an error? Should the plane begin production in 4/42 instead?

Thanks,


Yes, it looks like an error, checked in the editor and both the start date and end date are 4/43. The Canadian version of the Beaufort I has a start date of 10/42 and end date of 2/43.



1EyedJacks -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (1/4/2010 1:12:28 AM)

Training questions:

Is there a skill set for night ops that air groups can train for?

For my Carrier-capable air units that have not been assigned to a carrier - is there anyway to train them in carrier ops?

TTFN,

Mike



Admiral Scott -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (1/4/2010 7:16:12 AM)

I found an error in the OOB in the database for the Tenth USAAF HQ.
The game has the HQ arriving in Aden May 1st 1942, when historically it arrived in March of 1942 in New Delhi.



Barb -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (1/4/2010 8:29:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks
Training questions:

Is there a skill set for night ops that air groups can train for?

For my Carrier-capable air units that have not been assigned to a carrier - is there anyway to train them in carrier ops?

TTFN,

Mike

Nope, no specific night skills. Just train them in skill they will use at night.

As for Carrier capable units, assign them to a carrier and let them train for a while - they may become carrier-trained...



wdolson -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (1/4/2010 10:39:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Hi,

I am playing scen 2 via email. It is April 1942 and I have just gotten a squadron of Beaufort I torpedo bombers at karachi. However, I notice that Beaufort I type is not listed to begin production until 4/43. Is this an error? Should the plane begin production in 4/42 instead?

Thanks,


The Beaufort I went into production just after the start of the war. They had some success in the Norway campaign.

After the Indian Ocean raid, the British sent a couple of Beaufort squadrons to the Far East as defense against future carrier raids. One squadron was held up in the Med and operated with quite a bit of success from Malta. It eventually made it to the Far East.

I believe there was a delay between when the Beauforts arrived in the Far East and when replacements arrived. The initial Beaufort presence in the Far East was a sort of ad hoc affair for a while. I'm not 100% sure 4/43 is the right date, but I believe a delay between arrival of the squadrons and the start of "production" is warranted.

The Far East Beauforts never dropped a torpedo. For most of their deployment, torpedoes weren't even available.

Bill



Blackhorse -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (1/5/2010 12:46:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral Scott

I found an error in the OOB in the database for the Tenth USAAF HQ.
The game has the HQ arriving in Aden May 1st 1942, when historically it arrived in March of 1942 in New Delhi.



We followed "Air Force Combat Units of WWII" which stated that the Tenth was activated in February, and moved to India from March to May.



Admiral Scott -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (1/5/2010 3:12:10 AM)

You have the Tenth arriving in Aden atleast 6 weeks too late. The Tenth arrived in March in India, not May in Aden.
The Tenth was in full operation in India by April 2 1942.

THURSDAY, 2 APRIL 1942

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS
CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

(10th Air Force): Major General Lewis H Brereton, Commanding General 10th Air Force, leads 3 B-17's on a raid on shipping in the Andaman Islands off the S coast of Burma during the night of 2/3 Apr; they claim hits on 1 cruiser and a transport; 2 B-17's are damaged by AA and fighters, but all return to base. Earlier in the evening, a mission scheduled against the Rangoon, Burma area is aborted when 1 B-17 crashes on takeoff and the other has mechanical trouble.


FRIDAY, 3 APRIL 1942

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

(10th Air Force): 6 B-17's from Asansol, India, bomb warehouses and docks at Rangoon, Burma, starting 3 large fires; 1 B-17 fails to return.


MONDAY, 6 APRIL 1942

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

(10th Air Force): 10 DC-3's of Pan American Airways begin hauling 30,000 gallons (113,550 l) of fuel and 500 gallons (1,893 l) of lubricants from Calcutta to the airstrip at Asansol, India, completing the mission on the following day. This fuel, subsequently transferred via Dinjan, India to China, is for use by Lieutenant Colonel James H Doolittle's Tokyo raiders, already at sea aboard the aircraft carrier USS Hornet (CV-8).



Blackhorse -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (1/5/2010 3:59:50 AM)

quote:

You have the Tenth arriving in Aden atleast 6 weeks too late. The Tenth arrived in March in India, not May in Aden.
The Tenth was in full operation in India by April 2 1942.


Thanks - I'd appreciate it if you would be kind enough to name the source you're quoting.



Admiral Scott -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (1/5/2010 6:34:32 AM)

Here is what happened in March 1942 for the Tenth USAAF.


THURSDAY, 5 MARCH 1942


CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS (10th Air Force): Major General Lewis H Brereton who arrived in India from the NEI on 25 Feb, formally takes command of the 10th Air Force, which at this time has 8 tactical aircraft (B-17's).



SUNDAY, 8 MARCH 1942


CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS (10th Air Force): HQ 10th Air Force begins moving from Patterson Field, Fairfield, Ohio to India. Between this date and 13 Mar, the 8 B-17's in India transport 474 troops and 29 tons (26.3 metric tonnes) of supplies from India to Magwe, Burma and on the return flights evacuate 423 civilians.



MONDAY, 9 MARCH 1942


CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS (10th Air Force): Japanese forces complete the capture of Rangoon, Burma, dealing China a great blow by cutting off supplies from the Burma Road.



THURSDAY, 12 MARCH 1942


CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS (10th Air Force): 10 P-40's arrive in Karachi, India by ship from Australia.


Arriving at Karachi, India are:
HQ 7th Bombardment Group (Heavy) and 88th Reconnaissance Squadron (Heavy) from Australia; the air echelon of the 88th is at Townsville, Australia with B-17's; 88th will be redesignated 436th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy) on 22 Apr; last mission from Australia is 14 Mar; first mission is CBI is 4 Jun; and 16th and 25th Pursuit Squadrons (Interceptor), 51st Pursuit Group (Interceptor), from the US with P-40's; first mission is in Jul 42.


FRIDAY, 13 MARCH 1942


CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS (10th Air Force): 26th Pursuit Squadron (Interceptor), 51st Pursuit Group (Interceptor), arrives at Karachi, India from the US with P-40's; first mission is 15 Oct.



SATURDAY, 14 MARCH 1942


CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS (10th Air Force): HQ 51st Pursuit Group (Interceptor) arrives at Karachi, India from the US.


9th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 7th Bombardment Group (Heavy), arrives at Karachi, India from Australia with B-17's; first mission is 2 Apr.


This info can be found at the following sites...

http://www.cbi-history.com/

http://www.usaaf.net/chron/42/apr42.htm

http://www.pacificwrecks.com/60th/1942/4-42.html



oldman45 -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (1/5/2010 6:57:56 AM)

According to the Army Air Forces of WWII Vol 1 the 10th air force was activated 12 Feb 1942, the HQ Squadron and support units departed Charleston SC 19 March with various stops along the way bound for India, it did not reach its destination till mid May. The first planned combat mission of the 10th Airforce was 2 April. While the HQ and ground support was in transit, MajGen Brenton and some staff officers were already in place. Also, Karachi was made the point of entry for assets being shipped to India. (The Brits claimed Bombay and all their shipping went there) US fighters that were shipped from Africa went to Karachi. The town of Asansol was the primary base for these and other raids that took place. It was a pretty rough start, they mustered 3 heavy bombers (2 B-17s and 1 LB-30) On the 3rd they put up 6 bombers and hit Rangoon, and on the 16th they got the planes fixed up enough to get 6 bombers in the air for a second strike on Rangoon. It took 13 days to put another strike up, (and we complain about our problems in the game). BTW these missions were all done at night.

So you're both right, kinda. It was true the planes assigned to the 10th AF launched the raids in April, but the actual HQ staff and support units didn't arrive till mid May. If you want to be really accurate, the ships that were carrying them had to make a port call in Capetown so they should enter from there.



Blackhorse -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (1/5/2010 11:07:34 AM)


AdmiralScott, Oldman45 -- thanks to you both. Noted for possible adjustment in a future patch.



Admiral Scott -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (1/5/2010 3:59:48 PM)

The problem is part of the HQ(the senior staff) was in place late febuary, and the HQ assets from Ohio didnt arrive until May.
I guess you could pick either or compromise. If it was up to me, I would choose April 1st as an entry date in India.
One day before they began operations.



oldman45 -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (1/5/2010 4:23:54 PM)

How can you do that Scott, the HQ that shows up represents the support personal like the 3rd Air Depot group, its not just the staff personal. Also if we are going to go into this kind of detail, then we have to work in the withdrawl that takes place in June of 42 when Breton takes most of the aircraft the middle east ;) I like it the way it is. I simply moved the port of entry to Capetown for my mod.



Admiral Scott -> RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread (1/5/2010 4:33:47 PM)

I see the complications.
Its not a big deal.
Might as well leave it the way it is.



doc smith -> RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues (1/7/2010 6:58:04 PM)

I would have searched the db if I knew how to phrase it in a meaningful and directly-applicable form. That being said, I apologize if this was raised earlier.

I have run into the case where a base had over 20K supply pts, a nearby HQ (well within range of applicable air units), and replacements available. Nevertheless, I can't move replacements from the pool to a unit with less than TO&E strength.

For example, I have a squadron with 9 of 16 P-40Es at Townsville. The unit is part of II Fighter Command, part of the II Fighter Command in town, 8 replacements in the pool, yet no way to transfer planes from the pool to the squadron. According to the rules, I should be able to draw planes but no 'button' is available. Takes a long time to get a/c into the unit.

Also, where is the best place to draw replacements into an 'Independent' Navy fighter squadron from a carrier VF squadron with 23 of 27 a/c TO&E. Example, Hornet is at Noumea and the town has over 20K supplies plus several planes of the same type in the pool. Again, no button to draw the units, whether the carrier unit is on shore or on a docked or undocked Hornet. What am I doing wrong (playing the Dec. 8th campaign as the Allies against an AI Japanese 'player'). I tried changing the group to Pacific Ocean Areas or South Pacific, but no joy (the SP HQ is not in play).

Appreciate any help.

[sm=00000924.gif]



sspahr -> RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues (1/7/2010 9:24:00 PM)

Scen 1
Air Group 3223 No 139 Sqn RAF (renamed to 62 Sqn on April 30 '42)

This unit retains the Hudson IIIa for the entire war. According to RAF Web, http://www.rafweb.org/Sqn061-65.htm , 62 Sqn converted to the Dakota in July 1943.



sspahr -> RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues (1/10/2010 2:16:22 AM)

Another weapons mismatch:

Scen 1 Aircraft 610 A6M3a
Weapon 2 is Device#189 Type 99-2 Cannon
Weapon 12 is Device#188 Type 99



PzB74 -> P-38's in 12/41 (1/10/2010 3:10:49 PM)

Not going to make a big thing about this but my 2c about making prototype P-38s available to combat units in AE from the begining of the war is wrong if you ask me.

P-38D aircraft reached USAAF squadrons in August, 1941, but the military did not consider them ready for combat; as such they were re-designated RP-38D,"R" for "Restricted to non-combat roles," and only used for training. By December, 1941, 69 of these early P-38's were on active duty. In 1940, the British and French had ordered several hundred P-38's. Between the fall of France and British dissatisfaction with the Lightnings' performance, very few were delivered. Most of these airframes (ordered by the European allies) were kept by Lockheed as training/experimental models or were eventually completed as models P-38F or P-38G.

Ref. Ace Pilots; http://www.acepilots.com/planes/p38_lightning.html



Cathartes -> RE: P-38's in 12/41 (1/10/2010 4:09:58 PM)

A couple handfuls of P-38Es were in California for Home Defense when the war began (1st Pursuit squadron flew to San Diego on Dec. 8). That's essentially what you get in AE and there are none being produced until mid '42, and they have poor-experience pilots, and these birds have a high service rating. Their impact is irrelevant in my opinion.



PzB74 -> RE: P-38's in 12/41 (1/10/2010 5:07:33 PM)

My opponent said he put his crack pilots into those P-38s.
- Felt like the Germans in 6/41 when they met the T-34, not so superior after all [:'(]

"Restricted to non-combat roles" - so it was all ok in stock WitP.



witpqs -> RE: P-38's in 12/41 (1/10/2010 8:00:34 PM)

I think it's OK for them to be there, but not dumped into the pool and inserted elsewhere. That's a tad gamey.



sven6345789 -> RE: P-38's in 12/41 (1/10/2010 8:03:45 PM)

Since they have a high service rating, it must be hell to keep them operable. So it equals out i guess.



timtom -> RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues (1/11/2010 5:23:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sspahr

The F-6C (USAAF Tac Recon slot 318) has speed and climb stats equivalent to the Allison-engined P-51A. The F-6Cs were all modified from the Merlin-engined B and C models, and the performance values should reflect that. Also, the side art for that aircraft represents an F-6D.


Data error. Ta.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zsolo007

Hi,

This was probably brought up before, and it's not a big deal, but why is the Kawasaki Ha-40 called Ha-60 (the engine of the ki-61) ingame?


->

quote:

ORIGINAL: timtom

quote:

ORIGINAL: mikemike

Shouldn't the Kawasaki Ha-60 engine be the Kawasaki Ha-40?


Engines represents an amalgam of different types, hence we use the joint Army/Navy system of designation whenever possible - in this case "Ha-60" for the engine formely known as Ha-40.



[:)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Couple of questions and possible errors...

1. In Aircraft in the editor ( Scenario 2 ) class 844 and 845 ( Tsurugi) are listed as level bomber. I am curious as to why they wouldn't be listed as dive-bombers or somesuch. In real life in the non-kami role they were never designed for a bombsight or anything like that...

2. Top view art for the Ki-115a and b appears to be switched. From the side the 115a is greyish but from the top camoed while the 115b is camoed from the side but greyish from the top.

3. Ki 84a and b both upgrade to the Ki84r. Surely the a should upgrade to the b which should then upgrade to the r version?


1. The light bomber serves as a sort of catch-all general purpose a/c. Divebombers are defined more narrowly - has to have dive brakes to qualify. If you want to use a diffent methodology, that's your prorogative, obviously. AFAIK there's separate code for Kamikaze attack independent of a/c type.

2. So they are.

3. Apparently the -b model was limited issue (100-odd) and produced in tandem with the vanilla model from 3/45 onwards at Nakajima's plant in Ota. The set-up mirrors this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Hi,

I am playing scen 2 via email. It is April 1942 and I have just gotten a squadron of Beaufort I torpedo bombers at karachi. However, I notice that Beaufort I type is not listed to begin production until 4/43. Is this an error? Should the plane begin production in 4/42 instead?

Thanks,


WAD. We've got three Beaufort sqns - 22, 42, 217. 22 Sqn arrived Ceylon 4/42 and remained there until end '44 while converting to Beaufighters mid-44. 217 Sqn arrived Ceylon 8/42 but without the air echelon, which had been folded into 39 Sqn in the ME. Thus air echelon had to be rebuilt. Initially no Beauforts were available, so flew Hudsons instead. Finally received Beau's 4/43, then Beaufighters summer '44. Never deployed to Burma. The air echelon of 42 Sqn was retained in ME and did not arrive Ceylon until 11-12/42, however with crews and (possibly) a/c unlike 217 Sqn. Converted to Blens early '43 before deploying to Burma. Less than 40 Beau's are available to the player. This is meant to reflect the apparent dearth of Beau's while simultaniously hoping to encourage the player to keep them in reserve for a special occasion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fopkob

Hello, i'm new to the game. And i must say it is great!

Just started my first full war scen #1 against allied AI. But one thing bothers me. AFAIK, first Ki-49-Ia were used against Chinese in auturm 1941. By december 1941 61st Sentai was reequiping Ki-21 to Ki-49-Ia, but due to slow production fully refited in february 1942. Production of Ki-49-IIa started in august 1942. This doesn't correlate with in-game OOB - Ki-49-Ia availability date 4/42, Ki-49-IIa availability date 9/42. Error in OOB?
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/japan/aircraft/bomber/nakajima-ki-49-donryu-helen.asp

-ADD-
No G8N in game? Why? More prototypes build when compared to Kikka or J8W. It would be nice to have G8N, G10N and Ki-91. :D


My understanding is that the 61st didn't fully convert until July, deploying to the DEI in September. The general rule is that an a/c type is made available not by first production date but by first receipt with operational units. In amorphous cases like this the other criteria is when production exceeded 10 pr month which per the USSBS data is April in the case of the Donryu. A similar case is that of VMF-124 and the F4U.

Reg. the G8N, the methodology employed is basically if an a/c was still in the running by the time of VJ-day, it's fair game for inclusion. However if a particular project had been abandoned by this time, the a/c isn't included. My understanding is that the G8N was cancelled in July '45.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sspahr

Scen 1
Air Group 3223 No 139 Sqn RAF (renamed to 62 Sqn on April 30 '42)

This unit retains the Hudson IIIa for the entire war. According to RAF Web, http://www.rafweb.org/Sqn061-65.htm , 62 Sqn converted to the Dakota in July 1943.


You're right. Nice catch, sir! [:)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: sspahr

Another weapons mismatch:

Scen 1 Aircraft 610 A6M3a
Weapon 2 is Device#189 Type 99-2 Cannon
Weapon 12 is Device#188 Type 99


Oh for flips sake somebody smack the fat-fingered orbat-wallah.



sven6345789 -> RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues (1/12/2010 6:09:16 PM)

Question regarding A-24 Banshee
checked the dates for the A type (the first one you get, there are two), and it is listed as being available from 2/42 until 2/42; WAD? you get the second type (B ) in 3/43, so 2/43 would also make sense.



PzB74 -> RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues (1/12/2010 7:56:42 PM)

Got hit by Banshees from 01/42 - so doesn't this mean they are available from 12/41?



witpqs -> RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues (1/12/2010 8:07:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

Got hit by Banshees from 01/42 - so doesn't this mean they are available from 12/41?


Yes - within units. There is only a very limited production run (maybe 15 IIRC) in 42/02.



rockmedic109 -> RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues (1/12/2010 11:59:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

Got hit by Banshees from 01/42 - so doesn't this mean they are available from 12/41?

Something like three squadrons show up in Oz in Late DEC/Early Jan. They have a withdrawal date in March, I believe. And the replacement rate for A-24 is not enough for sustained operations. Attrition will wear them down before they withdraw.



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