RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (Full Version)

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Jutland13 -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/10/2007 3:23:42 AM)

We all have to make our own choices and live with real life budgets. That said, I will work this into mine. This is the the only game I have been involved in for two years and the chance to basically play WITP II (New map,diff hex ize, new forces, waypoints, new aircraft, new air system etc) This is basically WITP II! I am anxious and will pay for a better version of the best game yet released.



Max 86 -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/10/2007 4:50:32 AM)

Cost shouldn't be an issue.  I should be able to afford AE now and WitP2 5 years from now. So I'll save $5 a month for 5 years and I should have enough for WitP2 AND buy AE in '08.[:D]



histgamer -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/10/2007 5:17:40 AM)

I think ill just take out another college loan and get the game. [:D]



ChezDaJez -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/10/2007 5:38:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: flanyboy

I must say that I will buy this and as far as WITP 2. I cannot forsee it happening anytime soon. The AE upgrade is sounding almost like a new game. I cannot picture WITP 2 being much better if its released anytime within the next 4 years. Plus I would much rather see a WIR before WITP2 this AE would be a great finish to WITP... though i dont want it to be the end. That said i have no clue if WIR and WITP have the same people who work on it or not.


It might as well be because a lot of the strategies players used in the past are going to have to be altered plus there will be a substantial learning curve to take advantage of all the new features.

And I too would like to thank those team members who invited me to join the team. I haven't had a moment's rest since I first downloaded it. My wife (funny but I can't seem to remember her name now) thinks I'm nuts playing turn after turn with a ton of books and other Pacific war paraphanalia scattered about my desk.

Chez



kaleun -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/10/2007 6:29:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimHq Tom Cofield

I will buy it first day. 

Bank that.



Ditto



AU Tiger_MatrixForum -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/10/2007 7:00:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: flanyboy

I think ill just take out another college loan and get the game. [:D]


[:D]
One of those bought WitP for me, but thankfully that is one thing that no longer concerns me. I am more worried about paying off those &%^$*# loans now.

[:(]



Williamb -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/10/2007 7:47:31 AM)

I think many are missing the point of my post.

I didnt say I have completely closed the option of buying this. But I think its fair game to ask why we aren't getting WITP 2 and instead we are getting WITP GRAND PATCH.

Matrix has been slightly guilty of making only minor changes to games and then recycling them. Even WITP is a remake of another game.

The changes in the Admiral's edition are nice but since I already have WITP do I really want to spend $100 dollars to get WITP even with a few changes ?

Id honestly want Matrix to spend the time making WITP 2 than just revamping the old game. If it took 2 years and Matrix wanted to charge me $150 dollars for WITP 2 Id more than likely buy it. They would have far more sales and far more money if they were innovative and daring rather than just tweaking this game.

Im not knocking the developers for wanting to make the game better. In fact Matrix gets a lot of credit from me for working on games to make them better.

But there comes a limit where simply slaping changes to a game reaches a point of no return. And I think WITP is fast reaching that point.

I say these things as a fan of this game. Its a great game and as always can be better. But I think I can honestly state that rather than a grand fix a new version of this game is the better way to go. I have bought many Matrix games but lately I havent seen anything that makes me want to spend the time and money on it coming out of this company.

I will keep being hopefull.. Matrix has a great track record but sometimes I get the impression that they are locked into a mindset that tweaking old games is good enough to keep getting money. Its not about cranking out the most games its about making good games that keep being interesting.

And as point for Lt Horlund I liked this game so much I bought WPO as well and enjoy it a great deal. Why ? Because it made changes to the game that made it play as a different game. And that was good enough for matrix to get my money



Fred98 -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/10/2007 8:08:02 AM)

I have had no interest in wargaming od naval warfare but I loved Uncommon Valour!

I have WiTP but feel it is too massive to play.

The change in the scale and the addition of way points has caught my eye. If the turn length is set to 7 days its still a 200 turn PBEM game - perhaps there might be an opponent waiting?




Bliztk -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/10/2007 9:12:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kaleun


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimHq Tom Cofield

I will buy it first day.

Bank that.



Ditto


+1



Terminus -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/10/2007 11:54:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

I have had no interest in wargaming od naval warfare but I loved Uncommon Valour!

I have WiTP but feel it is too massive to play.

The change in the scale and the addition of way points has caught my eye. If the turn length is set to 7 days its still a 200 turn PBEM game - perhaps there might be an opponent waiting?




That 7-day turn reference was a typo; max turn length is 3 days. So it's a 400+ turn game...[;)]



Fred98 -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/10/2007 12:14:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus
That 7-day turn reference was a typo; max turn length is 3 days. So it's a 400+ turn game...[;)]



Well, by by from me !

-



Grotius -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/10/2007 5:45:57 PM)

quote:

WITP GRAND PATCH.

But it's not just a "grand patch." It has a whole freaking new map -- with 40-mile hexes rather than 60-mile hexes. A "patch" doesn't feature a new game map at a new scale! That's a colossal change. It almost doubles the number of hexes in play -- probably more than doubles it, given that the new map now models Panama, Aden, and other more distant ports. It makes the game an order-of-magnitude closer to the grognard's fantasy of a game that covers every aspect of every day of WW2.

Likewise, a mere "patch" doesn't feature 8 new terrain types; hundreds of new aircraft and ships; entirely new features like altitude bands and directional flak and hexside-movement and waypoint movement and patrol zones and new damage types and new industry types and dozens of other things. I've never, ever seen a "patch" that comes close to this. It's at the very least an "expansion pack."

Hell, some games have been released as complete standalone "sequels" with fewer new features than this. GGWAW's sequel was well-done, and I'm glad to have bought it, but it doesn't involve nearly so radical a redesign as this.

*checks his blood pressure and stops ranting!* [:'(]




crsutton -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/10/2007 6:52:27 PM)

I just spent $100 bucks to see the Washington Wizards play for two hours. They lost again.  Man, would I really  like to have that 100 bucks back.

On the other hand. I have been playing UV and Witp every day since they came on the market. I can't complain.[&o]



mc3744 -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/10/2007 6:52:31 PM)

I've played no other game as I played (and still am) WitP.

Money issues relative to people incomes are pretty much meaningless, because they depend solely on the specific income, which is obviously private.

The only sensible comparison to do, IMHO, is the one already made. Value for money.
No other game - EVER - has had a nearly comparable value for money to me than WitP. Hence, whatever my income, if I'll spend one more dollar on PC games, it'll be firstly on AE.



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/10/2007 6:54:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mc3744

I've played no other game as I played (and still am) WitP.

Money issues relative to people incomes are pretty much meaningless, because they depend solely on the specific income, which is obviously private.

The only sensible comparison to do, IMHO, is the one already made. Value for money.
No other game - EVER - has had a nearly comparable value for money to me than WitP. Hence, whatever my income, if I'll spend one more dollar on PC games, it'll be firstly on AE.


Hey Mc! Where the **** have you been?![:D] I missed you[:'(]

...quanti ricordi! Magari quando esce AE ci si fa un'altra partitina assieme eh?!

ciao caro



mc3744 -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/10/2007 7:15:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner


quote:

ORIGINAL: mc3744

I've played no other game as I played (and still am) WitP.

Money issues relative to people incomes are pretty much meaningless, because they depend solely on the specific income, which is obviously private.

The only sensible comparison to do, IMHO, is the one already made. Value for money.
No other game - EVER - has had a nearly comparable value for money to me than WitP. Hence, whatever my income, if I'll spend one more dollar on PC games, it'll be firstly on AE.


Hey Mc! Where the **** have you been?![:D] I missed you[:'(]

...quanti ricordi! Magari quando esce AE ci si fa un'altra partitina assieme eh?!

ciao caro


Hello there!

Always been here. Just don't have much time to post [:(]

Never stopped playing. Too many posts to read, not enough time.

A presto :))



Sabre21 -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/10/2007 11:29:45 PM)

I look at it as an investment in this evolutionary process. Way back when there was Pacific war, the grandfather to WitP. I still have my old apple IIe edition of it too. Then there came the matrix edition of it. A new engine, new graphics and we get Uncommon Valor....expand upon that and we have WitP. Better technology comes along and we have an improved engine with expanded maps, new capabilities and we have the Admiral's edition. Eventually WitP II.

All worth it in my opinion. If it wasn't for this step by step process, we wouldn't have any of it, and as long as there are those of us that will support it, there will be guys like Matrix and company that will continue to improve upon it. But that takes money, cuz I don't think they are independently wealthy...so it's upon us to do our part, for without each side, there is nothing. I've been buying Gary Grigsby games for 25 years now and I doubt I will stop anytime soon.

Sabre



Snip -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/10/2007 11:36:46 PM)

Well,

I understand, people may have a tight budget to cope with. However here is my experience:

I bought a boxed copy of UV a number of years ago over here in Germany - out of curiosity.
I liked the game, playing it on and off for a while.

Then WitP came. I think I ordered/dled it on day one of release - because of UV, or because I wanted something more challanging with the same traits. How many moons ago ?
Playing the ai - or what passes for it - and some PBMs since then. Best bang for the buck entertainementwise since then.

And now a big "update" - AE. Driven and headed by very well known members of the community and backed up by funding from Matrix and the skills of professional programmers. What else to ask for ?

I did buy some other titles from Matrix, but the UV/WitP franchise was the "thing" for me.
I shelled out more cash for cold ones playing the game, than buying it.

The combination of a community effort, backed up by pros is the way to go, if niche interests are concerned.
The only other game I know of is Rowans "Battle of Brittain" - a flight sim I love - with a very long record of community driven improvements.

I would think both AE and BoB are leading the pack - and putting up some cash in support of the effort is just one way to appreciate the effort to keep the genre alive.

Cheers















Mifune -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/11/2007 12:42:10 AM)

For me I probably wont purchase AE either. Not because of the money, it has certainly taken much of my time over the past two years. It certainly was worth the investment with tons of enjoyment. If there were not the limitations now on AE I would have purchased this at any cost. But not being able to work on your own maps and pwhex file is a purchase breaker now. The game was a modders dream. With tremendous community support by many people. Now its not, and it is a shame.



hueglin -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/11/2007 1:44:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mifune

quote:

But not being able to work on your own maps and pwhex file is a purchase breaker now


Andrew Brown mentioned on the map forum that a final decision on this had not been made. I agree it might be a purchase breaker and we should lobby hard to get it included in the editor.



Mifune -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/11/2007 1:53:23 AM)

I have communicated with others that also felt the same way. I know for me that the purchase decision is that cut and dry.



ctangus -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/11/2007 2:36:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: William Amos

I think many are missing the point of my post...

The changes in the Admiral's edition are nice but since I already have WITP do I really want to spend $100 dollars to get WITP even with a few changes?

Id honestly want Matrix to spend the time making WITP 2 than just revamping the old game...

I say these things as a fan of this game. Its a great game and as always can be better. But I think I can honestly state that rather than a grand fix a new version of this game is the better way to go...


I think I understood your point, it seems legitimate to me, and it's certainly not up to me to tell you how to spend your money.

My opinion does differ from yours, however. It doesn't seem like just a re-vamp of the old game. The depth of the changes that have been outlined will IMO make this an entirely new game. At least on the user-end, even if it's built on existing code on the developer-end. From that point of view I intend to order it the first moment that I'm able to. If I only get 1/10 the value for money that I got from WITP, it will be very worthwhile.



marovici -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/11/2007 2:37:02 AM)

As another poster already mentioned it comes down to budget, but in terms of value per hour for me nothing else compares. I am certainly getting it as soon as it is out!!!



jwilkerson -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/11/2007 2:39:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mifune

For me I probably wont purchase AE either. Not because of the money, it has certainly taken much of my time over the past two years. It certainly was worth the investment with tons of enjoyment. If there were not the limitations now on AE I would have purchased this at any cost. But not being able to work on your own maps and pwhex file is a purchase breaker now. The game was a modders dream. With tremendous community support by many people. Now its not, and it is a shame.


Mifune,

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that AE will be any less "MODDER Friendly" than stock. I certainly am not aware of any reason why this would be the case. Unless we encrypted the map art and/or pwhexE files (which we have no plans to do) then "MOD-ABILITY" of these two files would be exactly as it is in stock - "a modders dream" as you say.

Joe



Mifune -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/11/2007 3:10:35 AM)

Looking at page 3 of the AE map thread (in the Scenario Design section) it looks like the inclusion of map and pwhex utilities so far will not be included. Several of us have asked about this point and so far the response is "This has been discussed, but there hasn't been a decision yet." With all that has been discussed with what AE is including this looks quite ominous.



JeffroK -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/11/2007 5:28:16 AM)

I would by this day 1, earlier if they want my money in their bank sooner, pre-orders might encourage an investment in things like a better AI [:D]

I too have evolved from PacWar, Matrix's PacWar to WITP. It would be 90% of my gaming time. I also have Highway to the Reich, & Conquest of the Aegean & WPO and while excellent, havent grabbed me like WITP. Sadly I got TOAW III and was dissapointed (but for $40AUD..)

I am dissapointed that the announcement was made with so much left to resolve, Summer 08, when is that??, a bit closer to the date with a more solid idea of what's being offered would have been better.   IMHO, I would have suggested the developers made selected approaches to forum members to impose upon thier knowledge, maybe the same has been done but input via the forum is free.

Having a little knowledge( and we know how dangerous that is) of the new game, I believe it will be a fantastic improvement on WITP, and have access to the latest standards of research into OOB's etc. The new maps looked fantastic 6 months ago, given AB's skills they would only have improved further.

Cost, isnt an issue to me, in the scheme of things it will provide hours of entertainment.

PS. Can all of the AE threads be moved into another forum, or sub forum, else WITP is going to drown amongst the posts.






Andrew Brown -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/11/2007 5:29:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mifune

Looking at page 3 of the AE map thread (in the Scenario Design section) it looks like the inclusion of map and pwhex utilities so far will not be included. Several of us have asked about this point and so far the response is "This has been discussed, but there hasn't been a decision yet." With all that has been discussed with what AE is including this looks quite ominous.


As Joe says, there are no plans to encrypt the map data. No difference to the current game there.

As to including map/pwhex utilities with the game - there was some decision on that. But since we would first have to develop such a utility (the one I use currently for editing map data is definitely not of a high enough quality to include in a commercial product such as this), and that use up a lot of the time I, and the programmers, need to spend on the game itself, so I do not think the inclusion of a map editor with the game is likely. Again that is no different to the current game.

Andrew



Mifune -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/11/2007 6:18:02 AM)

"Again that is no different to the current game." Except for the fact that we wont have an option like editorX for AE. A difference indeed has taken place.



RAM -> RE: Why I probably wont be buying Admirals Edition (12/11/2007 6:21:41 AM)

Why ? Because there is apparently still plans for a WITP 2. And that looks to be a much more significant upgrade. So the question is do I wait 6 months for an upgraded WITP Admirals edition or do I wait 2 years for a fully changed WITP 2 ?

I cant afford full rate for both. So it becomes a choice of one or the other. I can play my current version of WITP and do without the Admirals edition and wait out the time for WITP 2.



not to sound disrespectful...but you should know better.

one of the things I'm really grateful about this expansion is that it is published as such. For all what it seems matrix could've published this as "WITP 2", and not without a good reason. And I assume, then you'd buy it, right?. But as it is "only" an expansion you'd rather wait for "WITP 2"...a game you don't know if it will be published or not ,and if it will, for sure it will take more than 2 years (counting from summer'08) in being released.

In the end: as Matrix didn't do a cheating marketing operation out of this expansion, you won't buy it. Is that it?...

As I said ,you should know better.


See, mate...You should go and buy a "paradox entertainment" game, and one year later buy the second part of the same game priced as a game and not an expansion. A "second part" which is the barely, bugged as hell, and still to be really finished with some 5-8 patches coming in 1-3 years "completed" (ha-ha-ha-ha) version of the first game. With the same engine, the same inner workings, the same code, but only some new features and added content over exactly the SAME base (see Europa universalis-Europa universalis 2. Hearts of Iron-Hearts of Iron 2...etc)

Then, after some 4 years of the original comes the REAL second part (called Europa Universalis 3, guess they'll do the same with HoI) which is total crap, you go and buy it too.

Then, come back here and tell me AE is not worth it.


I'm just mentioning ONE developer (Go and try Il-2 and tell me the reason  why Forgotten Battles it's a stand alone game priced as such, instead of an expansion of Il-2 itself), because this kind of cheating on customers is common in today's computer entertainment industry. Here they're not cheating you. As I said before, they could rightly name this expansion WITP 2 (and then you'd buy it, right?) but they release it as an expansion... unlike other developers who name their expansions as second parts and price them as such.

And you say you won't buy AE because its "only" an expansion?.

I'll insist: you should know better.


If only, and if you like the game which I assume you do, you should buy it just because guys who do a great job, hear the community, and are honest, as matrix's developers are, need to be supported.

And, what the hell, because the expansion looks simply awesome!. 



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