Operational Security (Full Version)

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John 3rd -> Operational Security (2/15/2009 6:19:58 PM)

The ASW fracas east of the Philippines...


[image]local://upfiles/18041/B22156D4EB214404955DCA50DFC35948.jpg[/image]




ny59giants -> RE: Operational Security (2/15/2009 7:45:50 PM)

Looks like some of the younger disciples of Kato Kanji are taking over operational planning in the Naval General Staff. [;)]




John 3rd -> To the President of the United States (2/15/2009 9:45:33 PM)

This is a note I sent to Dan with the last turn.

Now that the last of my troops are done in the Indochina--Malaya area let me give you some thoughts.

The whole attack into this area was magnificent.  Using the Amphib to get around my flanks was well done and executed.

The problem is that you don't know when to take a big risk and go for the throat.  I should have lost all that territory 4-5 months ago.  When you split the defense west of Bangkok I was ready for a complete collapse of my army.  At that point there were nearly 1,000,000 men fighting in the whole theatre.  There were 20 Chinese units sitting in Hue forever.  I kept recon up because I had to know when they would move south so I could do final evacuation.  Instead of a panicked evac with horrific shipping losses I got to pull troops off at my leisure for months.  At least 650,000-750,000 were yanked out of Singapore and Saigon.  Those units sitting at Hue could have crashed through those 2 weak Inf Div and 1 TK Reg anytime.  It was a nightmare I fixated on.  Similar things with the Malay Campaign.  At one point you had Bridgeheads at Georgetown, Malacca, and Johore Bharu.  Had you only had two and gone all out I could not have improvised a defense. 

LESSON:  NEVER leave China open enough for massive numbers to pour into other theatres! 

While some on the Forum have been critical of my withdrawal I comment to them that I have gotten the vast majority of my units out intact and are rebuilding nearly all the others.  While your LBA is massive and frightening, you now have to stage seaborne invasions of you next major target.  I have enough air and naval to make that costly.  Should be interesting to watch and see how it plays out.

This theme of not going for the jugular can also be used in the Central/North Pacific.  I lost the war when you grabbed Iwo Jima.  You and I both know that wasn't your true target; however, it was taken and life became very scary for Japan.  At that point Okinawa and Formosa were ripe for the picking.  My supply line to the DEI would have been cut and life for the Empire would have been ended. 

Hokkaido is another point here.  You made an breathtaking move to land there but then disbursed your troops onto Sakhalin as well.  Concentration at Hokkaido would have kept me from keeping Hakodate on the SW Corner.  If I had lost that last base then I could never have taken the island back.  While Sakhalin is another nail in the Imperial coffin, Hokkaido would have been far more catastrophic. 

None of this is meant as nasty criticism whatsoever.  The Empire hangs by a thread right now but what I am saying is that you might have forced a surrender in May-June 1944 instead of sometime in 1945.

My .02!  :>

By the way---this has been one Hell of a lot of fun!  I hope that I don't get the jail option because I truly want to fight this out until it is fairly and totally DONE!




John 3rd -> Operational Security (2/15/2009 9:52:20 PM)

Since taken in early 1942 Manila has been a very busy port, transit point, and repair center for Japan.  The activity in early-to-mid-September 1944 matches the highs of any period in the last 2 1/2 years.

Through the streets of Manila numerous Tanks are seen and heard entering into this wartime city.  They are heading for the port.  Freighters are seen lining up to load these vehicles as fast as possible.

A group of 18 Transports are already departing the Port carrying 16,000 men of the 103rd Inf Div.  When they pass Fortress Corregidor, they are seen to turn due south...  




John 3rd -> From the President of the United States (2/15/2009 11:05:35 PM)

This is Dan's response:

[font="arial" lang="0"]John,

It's really interesting to read your analysis, but I think you may have fallen into the trap of seeing your weaknesses, assuming I can see them too, and forgetting that I have problems of my own. (And you'll think the same of my analysis when you read my take on these things).

1)  My troops in Hue had no supplies and I feared that they could be pushed out easily.  I had already prepped them for Hanoi so that I could try to make a stand there.  Had you moved north from Camranh Bay, I was going to have to pull back.  The supply sitaution for the Chinese was that troubling.

2)  The Japs have more ground troops than they'll ever need in this game; time and territory are the real enemies.  The Japs could have tied up the Allies in SEAC for many more invaluable months.  You would have lost a bunch of troops in the end, but you would have held key bases, and tied up critical Allied assets, for a long time to come.  You say I could have had this territory three or four months ago; I think you could've still had a blocking presence there for at least that much longer.

3)  Iwo was one of three possible targets (along with Philippines and Hokkaido) after the Midway invasion.  Formosa/Okinawa weren't in consideration.  I didn't know how strongly you held those two at the time, but I do know that I could have never supplied those bases had I taken them.  I would've taken them, but couldn't have supplied them and it would've become a nightmare.  Heck, my bases on Sikhalin Island were very tenuous for about three months, and Sikhlalin much more secure than Formosa or Okinawa would've been.

4)  The original target of my December invasion was Hokkaido alone; but the invasion fell apart and the Sikhalin bases and Aleutians became last minute objectives hoping to salvage something (fortunately, that turned out well).  I was basing that move on the assumption that you would commit the KB and your combat ships to halt the invasion of Hokkaido, which you would have succeeded in doing; when you didn't do so, I unexpectedly managed to get alot of troops ashlucky to have anything ashore at Hokkaido, and very, very lucky to have had the foresite (or maybe the dumb luck) to seize those Sikhlain bases.  It was winter.  If you'd have 50-75 AV at both bases I'd never have gotten them.

5)  Had you committed your combat ships and the full KB defending Hokkaido, the war would have ended there with a Japanese victory.  I still don't know why your combat ships didn't hit the invasion beaches, and why the KB didn't come full steam ahead, especially after you wiped out the American carrier strike aircraft.

Now, that's just from MY perspective; undoubtedly, my interpretation is colored by my own perceptions about your strengths and my weaknesses.

I am proud of the Malaya campaign for several reasons.  The few comments I got on my AAR urged me to concentrate on a land campaign, but I rejected that and decided I wanted the British to remain mobile.  That amphibious mobility became a huge asset.  Even then, that campaign was intended to be nothing more than a "meat-grinder" to draw Japanese forces and to attrition them if possible.  That was successful too.  But I never expected SEAC to host such major Allied advances. When the KB and your combat ships went that way, it allowed me to bring in the supplies and reinforcements I needed to secure Sikhalin Island and allow it to serve as a base for bombers.

So both of us have had opportunities that we've missed, and seen weaknesses in our own situations that we may have over emphasized, and successes.

You're right; the game has been a blast!  Thanks for sticking in so long and so faithfully.  Yo'ure a tremendously clever and meticulous opponent.

Dan






tocaff -> RE: From the President of the United States (2/16/2009 12:12:39 AM)

An opponent who plays for the joy of playing, win lose or draw, that sticks with it for so much time is indeed a gem.




Heeward -> RE: Operational Security (2/16/2009 1:33:08 AM)

I am wondering by saving fragments of land combat units and rebuilding them - does this create a insupportable drain on your supply pool as rebuilt units continue to eat supply?




John 3rd -> RE: Operational Security (2/16/2009 3:29:05 AM)

They do eat supply but I haven't noticed a huge drain.  Most of these units have been ending up at Manila or Soerabaja and those bases stay between 10-20,000 supply consistently.

Have noticed the amount of time rebuilding takes.  The 2 Armored Divisions lifted from Saigon 3-4 months ago are now at 80-90% and that has been at a well supplied port.




John 3rd -> Operational Security (2/16/2009 7:54:48 PM)

The new Operations is to be entitled "Downfall."  Does anyone know enough Japanese to give me an approximation of Downfall in Japanese?  I woould prefer to use the Japanese words.





HarryM -> RE: Operational Security (2/16/2009 8:51:14 PM)

Don't speak Japanese, but according to this...
http://www.freedict.com/onldict/jap.html

Possibilities are metsubou, suibou, furyouka




tocaff -> RE: Operational Security (2/16/2009 8:54:25 PM)

I vote for furyouka as it's almost like saying for you kabam!  [:D]




bigbaba -> RE: Operational Security (2/16/2009 9:13:08 PM)

everytime john plans a new operation, i must think about rocky 3 and the prognosis of "Mr.T" for the fight....PAIN![:D]

good luck, crazy samurai.




vettim89 -> RE: Operational Security (2/16/2009 9:25:32 PM)

Historically all the major operatiosn had names ending in -GO. Operation I-Go for example, the attempt to slow the Allies advance up the slot by relocating the carrier air groups to Rabaul and ultimately ending in Yamoto's death. Putting a post with the title anything-Go should grab some attention




rtrapasso -> RE: Operational Security (2/16/2009 9:31:44 PM)

iirc, -GO at the end meant Operation... i think I-GO meant "Operation A".




John 3rd -> RE: Operational Security (2/16/2009 9:36:30 PM)

Furyouka-Go is the title then!

Thanks for the support and thoughts here gang.  BigBaba you really made my day with the comment.  The fight that I am planning is more like the fight in Rocky Balboa...
 




John 3rd -> Furyouka-Go (2/16/2009 11:28:13 PM)

TO:  Commanding Officer IJN I-8 
Lt. Commander Kawahara


You are to suspend previous orders and make best normal speed to Soerabaja. 

Do not endanger your boat's war readiness by pressing speed too high.


FROM:  C-In-C, Combined Fleet




This same order is transmitted to other 15 long-range I-Boat Commanders... 




ny59giants -> RE: Furyouka-Go (2/17/2009 12:50:57 AM)

Damn history professor wants to make sure his foreshadowing is done well in case there are any movie rights after the war. [:D]




John 3rd -> RE: Furyouka-Go (2/17/2009 12:55:39 AM)

[8D][:@][8D]

I wouldn't KNOW anything to which you speak Senator...





John 3rd -> RE: Furyouka-Go (2/17/2009 6:00:32 AM)

I am working on a comprehensive update. 

Dan and I have slugged at each other over Tori Shima.  Costing me a good number of planes but it is serving to drop his Sweeps over Japan to ZERO.

Keeps him occupied while my Cabal of evil advisors and I create fiendish plans...





modrow -> RE: Furyouka-Go (2/17/2009 11:49:27 AM)

Hi John,

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I am working on a comprehensive update. 



I guess I speak for many readers when I say: you got our attention [sm=00000613.gif] ! Really !

Now PLEASE stop teasing and tell us about this and your new op [&o]

quote:


Dan and I have slugged at each other over Tori Shima.  Costing me a good number of planes but it is serving to drop his Sweeps over Japan to ZERO.


Well... as long as they end like the one in post #1622, he should feel free to sweep on [8D].

Do you have a feeling whether perhaps the losses he takes here will rid China of fighters, so you could shift your "kind" attention back there ?

quote:


Keeps him occupied while my Cabal of evil advisors and I create fiendish plans...


[:D][sm=00000028.gif][sm=00000613.gif][sm=00000289.gif]
Looking forward to their execution (of the plans, not the advisors - unless the plans go awry, of course [8D])

Hartwig





John 3rd -> On Clear Day Over Tokyo... (2/17/2009 6:17:13 PM)

Eeeeeeeeeeeee...



[image]local://upfiles/18041/684B3D6C51704271BAA8A276985BF69E.jpg[/image]




John 3rd -> ASW Fighting in DEI (2/17/2009 6:22:47 PM)

OK Harwig...here is a taste of the movement going on.

My Cabal and I refuse to impart the PLAN until it is under execution. The move is...dare I say...breathtaking...



[image]local://upfiles/18041/0221E576C8B240C9A2E0A029D7B05EE6.jpg[/image]




Nemo121 -> RE: ASW Fighting in DEI (2/17/2009 6:32:01 PM)

Well, you're either moving for Burma ( to cut the Allies off in Malaysia or you are being ueber-confident and going for India.

Oz, right now, won't be decisive enough to even bother with.


I have my own thoughts as to how much is advisable for you to try now but let's see what you come up with. it'll be interesting for sure.




bigbaba -> RE: ASW Fighting in DEI (2/17/2009 6:34:35 PM)

another great defensive success over japan. 28 B-29 and maybe more because of OP-loses...that must be a huge part of the monthly production rate of this monsters!

in my game as the japanese, i am in 04/42 and dream of getting all thos beautifull jacks, georges and franks!





John 3rd -> RE: ASW Fighting in DEI (2/17/2009 6:52:43 PM)

Only problems with getting those planes is what the Allies have AT THE SAME TIME!

Since I have been hitting Tori Shima periodically Dan has stopped his Ftr Sweeps over the Mainland and that is really helping with the defense.

Nemo--I can neither confirm nor deny your thoughts! 




modrow -> RE: ASW Fighting in DEI (2/17/2009 6:59:40 PM)

LOL ! Teasing again... But it's always good to keep your hand close to the chest when stakes are high. So I'll be patient.

Looks like your plan does not involve hiding where your carriers are if they do sub hunting though...

Good luck with (and no refueling DDs at critical moments during execution of) your plan !

Hartwig




John 3rd -> RE: ASW Fighting in DEI (2/17/2009 8:14:06 PM)

I have Judy and Grace spread along the Palau--Davao--Tarakan--Balikpapan--Kendari route.  It shouldn't be TOO obvious that CVs are moving through this region.  Even if he does figure it out there is nothing he can really do about it.

We have decided that the CVs will go EMCON when they depart.  No ASW or Search to give away our position.  CAP will be up but that is it.




John 3rd -> Furyouka-Go OOB (2/18/2009 4:34:36 AM)

DELETED because I hate this program we use for posting.

I will try to do this in 2 Screenshots






MrPlow9 -> RE: Furyouka-Go OOB (2/18/2009 4:44:32 AM)

From what Ive read (and understood[:D]) before you deleted it, this is going to be a battle of epic proportions! [&o]




John 3rd -> Furyouka-Go OOB (2/18/2009 4:45:14 AM)

This is the current layout of the Kaigun once it is concentrated at Soerabaja. I will be making modifications to the aircraft inventory but the organizational structure will not change too much:



[image]local://upfiles/18041/2A02F21528384F30BE66833F065E7512.jpg[/image]




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