RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (Full Version)

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DeadInThrench -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/25/2008 8:47:14 AM)

Guys..... I DLed the new scenarios... as well as the units file and..... the new scenarios will not load because there is missing unit artwork.... Prussians11, Prussians22, Prussians91, etc.

DiT



DeadInThrench -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/25/2008 9:46:09 AM)

Oh, BTW, I can convert any HnM scenario to PWM.... though I am loathe to do this re any scenario included with PWM or PG.

But, user developed scenarios that is another story... and so attached... PrinzHenrich' Landshut57 scenario... converted to PWM HnM2.

Of couse, one is restricted to the uniforms included with PWM... and in this case... I have to guess. Wasn't hard to guess on the Austrian Grenze <g>.... but for the Prussians.... used FreeCorps but, again, this was just a guess.... easy to change if incorrect.

DiT

P.S. Oh, if you DL this, you must change the file extension to .zip ... and then unzip.



Trenck -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/25/2008 9:49:48 AM)

Hi DeadinTrench,

all the support files you need are posted here:

http://syw-cwg.narod.ru/HM_scnE.html

For the 1792-scenarios and 1794-scenarios on this site (SYW for CWG2) are some support files missing (don't know why) - but that's no problem. All you have to do is, to change the unit graphic link with your scenario editor. You have to change only 2 or 3 scenarios. Open the scenario with the scenario editor, go to "Armies" (menue), click on "Edit Names", search for missing army graphic names and replace the missing army names with a name of army graphics of your support files folder.

Best,

Trenck



PrinzHenrich -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/25/2008 11:42:22 AM)

Sorry Guys i have only HnM1 so i make scenario only for this game. About uniforms in bmp i have all his because i first change it to my needs and save in another name. SO Prussian10 was changed to Prussian11 - they have new blue trousers. Wrote which you need and i try upload it there 



Tim Coakley -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/25/2008 11:04:18 PM)

PrinzHenrich,
before you put a lot of work into the scenarios for the old version of the game. I would like to discuss the new game and some scenarios you might want to work on.

Regards,
Tim



Tim Coakley -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/25/2008 11:09:00 PM)

Trenck,
I had tried writing you before but got the e-mail kicked back.

You did some great support for the old HnM series...great to see you on the forum here.

Regards,
Tim Coakley



DeadInThrench -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/25/2008 11:21:06 PM)

PrinzHenrich...

You can still get PWM if you look. Just checked NWS online and they still have it... for $27.99 US.

I brought up the original HnM a couple of times and.... hard to get into it now with the interface which seems so old now (but, I still play old SSI games that have CGA graphics). Maybe it's the layout I dunno but.... the PWM interface seems to be so much nicer.

But.... if you do scenarios for the original HnM.... and then we convert them to PWM... then owners of both games can use them.

DiT



Panama Red -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/26/2008 2:32:57 AM)

DeadInTrench:
Thanks for the Landshut scenario, it played great. [:)]    Any chance you could convert any more of the old HM1 scenarios to HM2 files ???



Trenck -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/26/2008 10:24:37 AM)

Hi Tim,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tim Coakley
Trenck,
I had tried writing you before but got the e-mail kicked back.


oops, don't know how this could happen ... here is my contact:

trenck@trenck-dragoner.de

quote:

You did some great support for the old HnM series...great to see you on the forum here.


Thanks for the flowers! HnM and Dragoon are great games, I still have the very first version of this series (the pre-HnM-version of Dragoon). And I love that games, because they are NOT mainstream products! I will buy the new versions as soon as they are available!!!!
And I hope the new version will get back some of the "mod-machine-character" of HnM1 (it is great for me to create new armies, new scenarios, new characteristics of weapons and troops ...)! ... in this case: a "uniform editor" would be great (creating new uniform sets for PG or PWM is very difficult and "nerve killing"), maybe it's possible to give this tool to the community as a patch after releasing the new game! With such a tool, the new version will be a great thing like "Medieval 2" (by Jeff Lapkoff ... not the mainstream game "TotalWar") or "Age of Rifles"!!!! Dragoon has the potential to be an evergreen :)

Best,

Trenck



Trenck -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/26/2008 12:22:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MacDuff

Hey Trenck. Glad to see you're still alive.

You may already have these book marked, but just in case you don't here are two links to ebooks on the Life and Adventures of Baron Trenck.

Rick

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=bQ8FAAAAYAAJ&dq=trenck&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=SLfeB1xkZP&sig=wfWTly_cR0HFfd9d2kN2ELG8rrU#PPA7,M1

http://2020ok.com/books/82/life-and-adventures-of-baron-trenck-the-volume-1-41682.htm


Hi Rick [img]http://www.comicguide.net/images/smilies/hut.gif[/img],

yeah, old Trenck is still here [8D]

Trenck



PrinzHenrich -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/26/2008 4:58:39 PM)

I will wait for new relealase. For me 29 dolar is not a little (about 100 złotych plus transport) quite big cost for person who don't work.
If you want you can change Hnm to hm2. For: " PrinzHenrich,
before you put a lot of work into the scenarios for the old version of the game. I would like to discuss the new game and some scenarios you might want to work on.

Regards,
Tim"
I would like very much.
P.S. I have already done Reichenbach and Burkersdorf.



DeadInThrench -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/26/2008 6:00:55 PM)

Maybe Magnus can give you some pointers on how to edit/create new uniform files... and if doing these in PWM as it exists now..... will allow them to be used in any new release.

Really... if Tim and company really plan to make the releases here..... would make things a lot easier on Magnus if you guys went and did some of the unit artwork.

If you look at Steel Panthers, TOAW, and other games.... a LOT of the scenarios that come with those games are USER DEVELOPED scenarios... and with HnM.... there was a wealth of those scenarios developed. Would be nice in any future release to see those included.

I doubt the PWM scenarios would be able to work with any new release... but should not be difficult to port them. As far as the uniform art is concerned, only Magnus would know if they would work.

DiT



DeadInThrench -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/26/2008 6:21:19 PM)

Well, the big advantage in PWM over HnM.... is you can create a scenario at ANY scale not just 150 yards/hex.

Unless I am mistaken.... there was really no 'batallion' organizational structure during this age. Instead, regiments and the unit organization below that was companies. But, the significance of the 'batallion' structure is in giving flexibility to the regimental deployment.

So, the bottom line here.... is you can really organize your regiments into whatever number of 'batallions' you want. Better to keep a definite number of companies in each but, there is considerable leeway here.

The thing about HnM (all of em as a matter of fact).. is that only the top unit in a hex can fire, etc (to be honest, I preferred the Age of Rifles approach on this..... all units up to a certain stacking limit can fire... including just part of a unit being able to fire)... and what this means.... if you have a 750 str Prussian unit and the size of the Austrians is just 400, then the Austrians are getting the raw end of the stick. So, in scenario development in HnM (as it exists now), better to break that Prussian unit down into more batallions so that the size of all the units is more appropriate.

For myself, I came up with this value.... .6 men per foot per line. In other words, for a three line Prussian line infantry unit.... this would mean 54 men per 10 yards. For a British line (just 2 lines), it would mean just 36 men per 10 yards. For Austrians (4 lines), would mean 72 men per 10 yards. For light infnatry, I dunno. Maybe just half the Prussian total which would mean 27 men per 10 yards.

In any case, in scenario development in HnM, best to balance scale and the breakdowns into batallions.... so that all units are around the appropriate stacking size... so that things are balanced with the HnM 'just the top unit can fire'... constraint.

DiT



PrinzHenrich -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/26/2008 8:35:18 PM)

To Tim
About what do you want to talk with me ? Details please



anvl -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/27/2008 2:40:35 AM)

dit,,

there was really no 'batallion' organizational structure during this age

there was a structured battalion organization during this age,, as there was one for companies,,and even platoons.  this was different depending on nation as well..


I handle the stacking deal by not using it in my game,,and not stacking my units. 

battalions did not deploy skirmishers as was done during Nappy's time,, but there were a few types of units which were used as skirmishers on the flanks of the armies, as well as to hold rough ground,villages, etc,,, these were Grenzers, various frei corps, and most nations had a few units of jagers.  Some, but not all, could be rifle armed as well...

anvil





DeadInThrench -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/27/2008 9:30:12 AM)

PrinzHeinrich..... if you have OOB data for the scenarios you put together.... down to the company level.... you should be able to tell if there was any batallion level organization or not.

I have full OOB for the French, British and Americans in the FIW and the ARW (from the HPS EAW series) including all leaders, down to the company level, and in no cases have I seen any batallion structure. Kinda doubt any other nation would have it but do not have the OOBs to be sure.

Oh, yeah, I place ZERO significance in anything anvl posts... and completely ignore him.

DiT



Trenck -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/27/2008 10:42:35 AM)

Hi DiT,

hard words, and weak arguements!

The battalion was the essential element in army organization during this era!!!! The strength of troops was counted in battalions (infantry) and esquadrons (cavalry) ... not in regiments (!) ... and they acted on the field as battalions (joined together to regiments). Battalions were often attached to different regiments. For example a grenadeer battalion from infantry regiment No.1 could be attached to the infantry regiment No.7 during a battle (just an fictive example, but this was the normal practice!!!).
Just make some real studies in warfare before start big talking, please.
Here are some example from the web, have a look and think about. This are only a few, if you need more, I have "tons" of it (as real physical paper):

[image]http://www.preussenweb.de/schlacht/ordre2.jpg[/image]
[image]http://www.preussenweb.de/schlacht/ordre1.jpg[/image]
[image]http://www.preussenweb.de/armee2/ordre.jpg[/image]
[image]http://www.preussenweb.de/schlacht/ordre1.jpg[/image]

Best,

Trenck



Trenck -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/27/2008 1:59:35 PM)

Here is one example from my bibliothec.

You can see the army structure is basing on battalions! The regiments are "only" summations of battalions.

[image]local://upfiles/28704/908F641EB6134984B01192BFBC19BBD0.jpg[/image]



Tim Coakley -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/27/2008 2:58:30 PM)

I thought battalions were the building blocks as well...the main tactical unit of employment.

Regiments served as an "administrative/organizational" structure.

The British had some 1 battalion regiments and some with multiple battalions. They often split up where the battalions in a regiment would serve.

Great scans there Trenck.

Tim



Trenck -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/27/2008 4:05:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tim Coakley

I thought battalions were the building blocks as well...the main tactical unit of employment.

Regiments served as an "administrative/organizational" structure.


Tim that's absolute correct!

Best,

Trenck



Trenck -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/27/2008 4:53:11 PM)

And on regiments of continental army during AWI (ARW):

the total strength of continental army was between 17000 and 21000 men, devided into 27 (!) regiments ... calculation: each regiment had 630 up to 778 men ... that's the strength of a battalion!!!!!! They named it regiment anyway (sounds better and stronger [:D])!

Best,

Trenck



anvl -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/27/2008 6:51:56 PM)

Trenck,,

thanks my friend,,, [;)] there is a ton of data like this on the net if one wants to do just a little research..Not just for the SYW, but for the whole of the fine Era of Blackpowder...

Tim,,

Like Trenck said,, you are spot on here..


dit,,

I have the new Mex\Am game from HPS,,and they too have oob's and names of officers for this conflict down to the company level and lower for the Mexican forces,,as an example,, but I chalk this up to "Poetic License" or more likely ease of game play and immersion, as this info is just not available due to the unstable nature of the Mex government during and after this very interesting conflict.. However the game itself is not bad,,,

anvil



DeadInThrench -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/27/2008 10:01:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Trenck

Hi DiT,

hard words, and weak arguements!

Just make some real studies in warfare before start big talking, please.

Best,

Trenck


Hmmmm.... I quoted my source anvil did not. So, maybe YOU should consider what you are saying before you say it!

As far as the demenor of your response, almost makes me think you were also one of the playtesters on PWM and are making your comments just as a matter of covering up how poor the AI is in that game and the fact that it got by the playtesters and so I checked and.... gee wiz... I guess that explains it!!

As far as batallions are concerned.... I again checked the OOBs for HPS EAW Campaign 1776 and... no batallion structure included at all. Brigade, Regiment, Company. Also, in HnM as well as HPW, the regiments are NAMED.... while any batallions.... just are enumerated.

So, sounds to me like the batallions were just a grouping of companies from which regiments.... were built.

As far as the PWM AI is concerned... in Mollwitz I beat the Austrians 71-4. When the battle was ended I had lost 4% of my force while the AI... had lost 71% of his force.... this because the fool AI turned it's entire center to face it's left leaving it wide open to flank attacks.

Then... I brought up PrinzHeinrich's Landshut scenario... converted to PWM as I had done and.... the first thing the fool AI did as the Austrians was to limber up it's artillery and march it right up to my Prussian front line where it was subseuently slaughtered.

And..... along with anvl, there you are listed on the PWM playtester list.

So, let me remind you as well as to how bad I beat the AI in Mollwitz.

71-4!!!

DiT

P.S. Otherwise.... I am wasting my time making comments on the circus that is going on here. I will thus do myself and everyone else a favor and NOT post here any more (yeah, should have kept to that as I stated before).... and instead just watch this disastor from a distance.



Tim Coakley -> RE: Original Horse and Musket player made scenarios (3/27/2008 10:14:40 PM)

DiT,
your message has been read. Most disagree with your overall assessment even if you have made some vaild observations.

For all the other posters,
please do not respond to DiT to fuel a flame war. He has stated he will no longer be posting, so please leave it at that.

Regards,
Tim



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