RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (Full Version)

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gwheelock -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (3/24/2008 8:55:21 PM)

France makes UNSUCCESSFUL seige of Kassel (Hesse).

France attacks Hesse corp in Dresden :

[image]local://upfiles/27656/96CD3B3568BE4C7E994E2B3DDA544508.jpg[/image]



gwheelock -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (3/24/2008 9:01:31 PM)

France conquors Berg, Gottingen, Nassau, Swabia & Lausitz;
Turkey conquors Cyrenaica


[image]local://upfiles/27656/4BDBD204E65E40319A67D411BA2A2599.jpg[/image]



gwheelock -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (3/24/2008 9:06:52 PM)

At the end of the Sept 1805 turn; the Victory point totals are :


[image]local://upfiles/27656/720A068F6C1047C085A469D8EB3092EF.jpg[/image]



gwheelock -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (3/24/2008 9:08:13 PM)

And the political status markers are :


[image]local://upfiles/27656/F708640A1B144D518AB7220D1DAB0795.jpg[/image]



Jimmer -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (3/24/2008 11:31:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: gwheelock

France makes UNSUCCESSFUL seige of Kassel (Hesse).

France attacks Hesse corp in Dresden :


THIS is why I like putting the corps right into the capital, with all factors (except in 2-province minors). Russia lost a PP, but wouldn't have in the capital.

Of course, picking cordon against Nappy's outflank is about the best chit pull possible, which just goes to show that die rolling can make up for a bad chit pull.

(Gwheelock was concerned prior to the battle, because, if he LOSES it, he has to retreat out of the country, thus granting a lapse of war. Good die rolling!)



gwheelock -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (3/25/2008 12:22:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmer


quote:

ORIGINAL: gwheelock

France makes UNSUCCESSFUL seige of Kassel (Hesse).

France attacks Hesse corp in Dresden :


THIS is why I like putting the corps right into the capital, with all factors (except in 2-province minors). Russia lost a PP, but wouldn't have in the capital.

Of course, picking cordon against Nappy's outflank is about the best chit pull possible, which just goes to show that die rolling can make up for a bad chit pull.

(Gwheelock was concerned prior to the battle, because, if he LOSES it, he has to retreat out of the country, thus granting a lapse of war. Good die rolling!)


What I had said on the phone yesterday was that if I lost the combat in HESSE; I would lose the country because I would
get knocked out & war would lapse... Russia (controlling MP) removed this worry (inadvertantly; I'm sure) when he used
the Hesse corp to attack the Saxon corp IN SAXONY (Dresden) & only left 1 factor in Hesse's capitol.

Russia couldn't put the Hesse corp into Dresden (I had a factor in there).



Jimmer -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (3/25/2008 8:53:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: gwheelock

What I had said on the phone yesterday was that if I lost the combat in HESSE; I would lose the country because I would
get knocked out & war would lapse... Russia (controlling MP) removed this worry (inadvertantly; I'm sure) when he used
the Hesse corp to attack the Saxon corp IN SAXONY (Dresden) & only left 1 factor in Hesse's capitol.

Russia couldn't put the Hesse corp into Dresden (I had a factor in there).


Oh, yeah. I forgot that piece.

Yes, if he had left it in Hess, then there's a risk. But, running it outside of Hesse made the combat able to be lost without losing the country.

Unless, of course, he attacks your corps in Hesse' capital and wins. And then wins the battle against Nappy. With the roughly 1 factor he'll have left.

Once again France has proved just how strong he is. Seems like we need the seventh coalition after all. :)



Odysseus -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (3/26/2008 2:00:25 AM)

So, given that France is already at 10 % of VPs - will the rest of the board unite in the ULTIMATE alliance to try to smash him is what I'd like to know. Time will tell...I've seen that happen on occaisions like this before...



gwheelock -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (3/26/2008 3:53:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Odysseus

So, given that France is already at 10 % of VPs - will the rest of the board unite in the ULTIMATE alliance to try to smash him is what I'd like to know. Time will tell...I've seen that happen on occaisions like this before...



France's being at 10% is in some ways a fluke. It is entirely due to winning 1 war
(big time) against Prussia. This enabled me to reach & STAY in the ps-39 zone for
3 quarters in a row. I expect to have 1 more quarter in the ps-38 or 39 zone in
Dec 1805 & after that I will start to drift down to a more normal spot.

Britain, Russia & Austria have already allied against me (Prussia is in enforced
peace until August of 1808) & whither I can continue to get pp's out of this
combination will determine whither I can maintain a high ps zone or not.




Odysseus -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (3/26/2008 7:08:47 PM)

In our F2F games, we had two occaisions that would generally trigger a free-for-all-everybody-joins-up-against one to get easy PPs for forcing easy conditional surrenders;

1) 1 nation got so powerful as to overshadow everyone else. If anyone else wanted to have the slighest chance of winning, the rest of the nations had to come together to beat the dominant one down.
2) 1 nation was exceptionally weak and thus just really easy pickings ;P.

Now, that was when we were in high school, and I'm not saying that I'd make the same choices today (maturity and all that), but the memory is there, and the current situation in this game just triggered my ole reflex ;P



gwheelock -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (3/26/2008 9:43:04 PM)

Yes; but there IS a countermove to that idea.  That is to do an EARLY (before
being hurt badly) surrender (probably conditional unless EVERYONE asked for
an UNconditonal) and then pick ONE member of the coalition to stay at war
with - and beat them as hard as I could as punishment (France could still
beat any ONE other MP - even after losing a war as long as he doesn't get
too badly hurt before giving up)

I would also consider this a major backstab from my allies - which would mean
that they would get no more assistance from me.  (I have been funneling $ and
as many spare pp's to other nations as I can since the beginning of the game)



Jimmer -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (3/26/2008 11:26:02 PM)

My rule of thumb is that I never backstab anybody unless there is an immediate victory that presents itself. If there's any guesswork involved, I won't do it. Only when the move that constitutes a backstab ends the game by the end of the next econ. phase, with me as one of the victors.

In any other situation presents itself, I keep my word. Even if it means likely losing the game, that's the way I operate. I figure if I was too stupid to make the right decisions during negotiations, then, well, "I made my bed; now I get to sleep in it."

Note that this is just playing historically. With the exception of France, the nations of this era could be mostly trusted to keep their promises, at least on the surface. Napoleon kept only those promises which he deemed worthy (to himself) of keeping, and only as long as it benefited him. Which didn't amount to many. I have never played France (against people), but I might change this practice as France. I would have to think about it.

I agree with gwheelock: Said "allies" would never be allies with me again, in this or any other EiA game we played.

(NOTE: This isn't always my practice, in all games. Just EiA and others like it (I call them "chivalrous" games). In Diplomacy or Machiavelli, well, you can trust me as far as you can throw me, and at my weight, that's not very far.)



Jimmer -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (3/26/2008 11:29:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: gwheelock

Yes; but there IS a countermove to that idea.  That is to do an EARLY (before
being hurt badly) surrender (probably conditional unless EVERYONE asked for
an UNconditonal) and then pick ONE member of the coalition to stay at war
with - and beat them as hard as I could as punishment (France could still
beat any ONE other MP - even after losing a war as long as he doesn't get
too badly hurt before giving up)

Historically, this is what some of the powers tried to do, actually. Austria fought one pair of battles in 1805, and then declined to fight again. Again in 1809. But, the wars were really short, if you only count the times of open hostilities on the battlefield. They were doing, effectively, a "quick surrender to avoid getting trounced" option.

It just didn't work very well for them, in most cases.



Jimmer -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (3/26/2008 11:36:59 PM)

By the way, the computer game only allows one winner, but I've always liked the "several winners are possible" way the original game was set up. I hope they add that.

Because, that way of determining victory meant that only a small number of powers are ever really "out of it".

For those who don't remember, the person who caused the end of the game was the first one to cross the victory point boundary. But, that just triggered and end-of-game step: Add ones home nation (non-free state) manpower to the current victory point tally. If THIS total exceeded that powers victory point goal, then that player was a winner as well.

What this means is that an alliance that has one dominating nation can still stick together. France and Turkey come to mind, for instance. If France truly helps Turkey out a lot, Turkey may very well be the nation that triggers the end-of-game step. But, then, France is very likely to also be a victor.

Without this, there is likely to be a lot of "spite moves" towards the end of the game. And, while von Blucher's attitude towards Napoleon could rate as "spiteful", he wasn't being stupid about it. In a game, one can be stupid and just hurt someone "because". But, in real life, such moves tend to get one killed (in wartime).

So, I resolved right after I saw the victory conditions entry in the manual for EiANW that I was going to "count" at the end, even without their help.

I hope they add that as at least an option later.



gwheelock -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (4/6/2008 8:24:32 PM)

OK; here is the status thru the November dp phase

Oct 1805 :

Turkey DOWs Tripolitainia; Spain gets control.
Turkey makes successful breakin.
Spain forms alliance with France.
Garrison in Hesse (besieged by France; controlled by Russia) fails forage
allowing France to enter city.

Major bug found : Britain DOWed Algeria & had control of the city in Sept.
Turkey formed the Ottoman Empire in Sept & Britain was ejected from the
city (& couldnt re-enter). Britain is still listed as "at war" with the entity
"Algeria" (which does not appear to exist anymore) but NOT Turkey or
the Ottoman Empire. British corp & garrison are both utimatly (November)
repatriated to Sardinia


Nov 1805 :

France DOWs Bavaria; Austria gets control




bresh -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (4/6/2008 8:44:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: gwheelock

OK; here is the status thru the November dp phase

Oct 1805 :

Turkey DOWs Tripolitainia; Spain gets control.
Turkey makes successful breakin.
Spain forms alliance with France.
Garrison in Hesse (besieged by France; controlled by Russia) fails forage
allowing France to enter city.

Major bug found : Britain DOWed Algeria & had control of the city in Sept.
Turkey formed the Ottoman Empire in Sept & Britain was ejected from the
city (& couldnt re-enter). Britain is still listed as "at war" with the entity
"Algeria" (which does not appear to exist anymore) but NOT Turkey or
the Ottoman Empire. British corp & garrison are both utimatly (November)
repatriated to Sardinia


Nov 1805 :

France DOWs Bavaria; Austria gets control




Did the Brits bring enough food to Sardinia :)


Regards
Bresh



Jimmer -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (4/6/2008 9:29:29 PM)

It turns out that the corps is short one factor from what it should have, and the garrison only showed up on France's copy of the map, and then only until the reinforcement phase of Nov. Grrrr.

Turkey has agreed to ally and cede Algeria to me, but that sure ties both of our hands for a while. So, in the end, Turkey will be up 1 PP (min) from where she would have been (not counting the Ottoman Empire), and I'm down 2. One of those (for each of us, +1 & -1), though, could have been avoided if Turkey had had the Algerians march into the mountains, thus avoiding the battle.

The little glitches in this game are really starting to bother me.



gwheelock -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (4/13/2008 7:16:55 PM)

Ok; here is the rest of the info from November 1805:

France conquors Hesse from Russia (controlled FS).


Napoleon, Murat & 2 corp (45I 6C) attack (Austrian controlled) Bavaria corp in
Area423 (between Munich & Ulm).
Chits are Assault vs Defend - Result France loses 2I, Bavaria is eliminated in persuit


[image]local://upfiles/27656/57CCA2B3FB084DFFB6D7A88994E3E466.jpg[/image]



gwheelock -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (4/13/2008 7:22:02 PM)

France makes successful breakin in Munich with 1 corp (no leader)
eliminating Bavaria garrison

[image]local://upfiles/27656/F9332CAF746A4D489C1F62D0BFA284DB.jpg[/image]



Jimmer -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (4/14/2008 11:31:47 PM)

Rumors have been spreading like wildfire that the British Royal Navy find and exterminate some "bloody French vermin" on the open seas. The scum have apparently locked themselves into ports, and spend their nights drinking and their days getting chewed out for the previous nights' actions.

Why won't the Corsican Usurper FIGHT? It's hardly worth having a war when the enemy is hiding from you.

Back to tea time, I guess.

King James of England



gwheelock -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (4/25/2008 9:14:13 PM)

Ok; Updates for dec 1805 :

France conquors Bavaria

Britain allies with Turkey (this is to correct a problem where Britain DOWed Algeria
but couldn't conquor it because of a problem that occured when Turkey created
the Ottoman Empire between his attack & what would have been the conquest.

Here is the current victory point status

[image]local://upfiles/27656/3E836D4E081E4FA58F7E45ED8E3B9B56.jpg[/image]



gwheelock -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (4/25/2008 9:18:01 PM)

And here is the political status chart:

[image]local://upfiles/27656/6D1828706E284122BD5BC0C8FA86C8B2.jpg[/image]



gwheelock -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (4/25/2008 9:23:01 PM)

I am also going to post an end-of-year general overview of
what & where everyone & everything is at for those who are
trying to keep up with developments; but may have missed someting.

We'll start in the frozen northlands where Benningsen is guarding St. Pete
against attack by attack from icebergs.



[image]local://upfiles/27656/E662290D0CDC49319DE066D3EE9ECE0A.jpg[/image]



gwheelock -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (4/25/2008 9:26:43 PM)

Meanwhile Tsar Alex is enjoying the warmer climes



[image]local://upfiles/27656/BACB55AB3703455F85C3916FA0B58C84.jpg[/image]



gwheelock -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (4/25/2008 9:29:26 PM)

Meanwhile; the Austro-Turkish boarder is garrisoned
(I wouldn't say WELL garrisoned; since ALL of the units on BOTH
sides are 1 [usually militia] factor)



[image]local://upfiles/27656/41959A72226540E1A167BFD0084EAE45.jpg[/image]



gwheelock -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (4/25/2008 9:34:03 PM)

Meanwhile; the Turks have created the O-E with everything except Morroco (Spanish)
and Tripolitania (Turkish separate FS); but have promised to cede Algeria to
Britain to correct a progam bug




[image]local://upfiles/27656/D3342428A42648B58A33D51C80115EFE.jpg[/image]



gwheelock -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (4/25/2008 9:36:23 PM)

Italy is split between Spain & Austria (with a couple of French conq at the top)



[image]local://upfiles/27656/6C75BD38D4E6426F9F36F9A04836DA4E.jpg[/image]



gwheelock -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (4/25/2008 9:40:42 PM)

Piedmont, Lombardy & Venice are all FS (altho' the Emperour Napoleon
has reported that SOMEONE sent the Venitians the wrong flag -
"those Austrian flags belong in my throphy room ... not out on flagpoles" he said)



[image]local://upfiles/27656/E6B02897170446A683E038F155762940.jpg[/image]



gwheelock -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (4/25/2008 9:45:48 PM)

The Austrian army has moved to winter quarters while the Emperour Napoleon and
a few freiends are enjoying some skiiing in Bavaria

[image]local://upfiles/27656/389950C1F7DB4D3B9B016F8E3110739B.jpg[/image]



gwheelock -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (4/25/2008 9:51:31 PM)

Prussia dreams of past glories; but does not have any firm plans for
future wars (not having an ARMY tends to .... restrict .... your options
in that manner). He appears to be very trusting of his neighbors.



[image]local://upfiles/27656/DB102738B260459E87F0454C790DDB6E.jpg[/image]



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