Then please explain (Full Version)

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Tim41 -> Then please explain (2/16/2008 7:43:52 PM)

why after thousands of hours of play, East Front II Gold suddenly crashed yesterday? In the same way the new game crashes! Hundreds of Campaign games and not a single problem ever-since 2001 (East Front Gold II). Now, the first time I played it after downloading your game it crashes? My computer person explained that downloading the new game could cause problems for the old game. He was right as always, and I will let him explain via email when he arrives exactly how this could happen.
This is the most unpleasant, expensive experience I've ever had with a game. I intend to leave this feedback on a number of popular sights as a warning to others. YOU (Jason) should have someone from customer service contact me! Why do I have to explain this (and every other) problem AGAIN? I would think that you would go out of your way to help an unhappy customer, but perhaps the idea of customer service is dead.




Tim41 -> My computer person has (2/16/2008 8:03:16 PM)

taken care of my systems for years. He has installed the prior versions of this game without problem in the past and I have (REPEAT), never had any problems with the games in their prior form. EVER!
The cost came as I discovered problem after problem play testing the new game. We would then see if the problem was discussed in the forum. Some were not-the loading issue for example. It took time to discover some of these...shooting cycles, etc. He patiently stands by while I discover the various problems with games. It's just easier to have him here-and it's MY problem that his hourly rate is not cheap (though he hasd worked for many hours for free over the years). He does not take advantage of me. As it is, I have to have hime come back to unload this and the old games and reload them. Everything concerning the games MUST be removed properly fom the system and then the games (older versions) must be reloaded-which even I can do.
It's really not a problem guys-I just want to go back to the old version and hope it works. Hopefully this company (Matrix) will give me my back the cost of the game and the patch service cost. It's not the end of the world. I like the old version as much as ever AND WANT IT BACK IN WORKING FORM.



Tim41 -> Computer Service to explain (2/16/2008 8:33:29 PM)

My guy will be here today or at latest tomorrow. He will write you to explain exactly how this could happen. He's explained it to me, but let's let him answer you and Jason directly so you can judge for yourself if this problem is related to the installtion of the new game or if he's taken advantage of me. I think that's fair.
It is a complex game, but releasing it without what Jason refers to as BETA testing was a REALLY BAD IDEA. I play the campaign mode and usually corps actions which take a hell of a lot of time and planning. To have the game crash is unaccepatble to me.
I too have had NO problems with the prior versions. Why then whould all of a sudden there be a crash the 1st time I played the old game after installation of the new?



Tim41 -> Three Examples of how the old is effected (2/16/2008 9:54:57 PM)

by the new game:
Previously, when opening a campaign saved on the prior issue, the commander's name was just filed as that. Now .ccd appears after the name and when starting a new campaign (in the old game) the commander's name appears at the top of the list (again with .ccd after it). This change-whatever it is is a result of the NEW GAME. Files, directories, etc.-this is what the computer guy can explain, but somehow the old is effected by the new.
Another expample. The old game set up mode often spread the units helter skelter (platoons far off from their assigned transport-a pain that I could live with). Like the new game, this is a little less helter skelter. This was a first clue the new file somehow affected the directies of the old games.
The old game has now crashed once. Not in my 95, 98 or XP's (actually have three XP's) has the 2001 version presented any of these problems.
PERHAPS THERE IS SOMETHING WE MISSED IN THE FORUM EXCEPT I DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ THE HUNDREDS OF FORUM STUFF ANYMORE...I JUST WANT TO PLAY THE GAME WITHOUT CRASHING.
I'LL STORE THE NEW GAME ON ONE OF THE THREE XP SYSTEMS IF POSSIBLE IN THE HOPE THAT 1.03 WILL SOLVE SO MANY PROBLEMS. AFTER THE INVESTMENT, WHAT ELSE MAKES SENSE? I JUST DON'T LIKE BOTHERING A ANY Of YOU-ESPECIALLY JASON. I THINK THE ABOVE PROVES THE POINT THE OLD GAME IS EFFECTED BY THE NEW INSTALLATION WHICH WAS A DOWNLOAD. PERHAPS MY GUY DID SOMETHING WRONG. he will pass on the capacity/system info to you both in case you have any ideas of why this is happening. I want his answer also. Part of the problem (in fairness) was also a problem with the wireless here in Santa Monica that greatly effects net speed...That was part of the extra cost. We amended that to some extent but SM has problems all over and we use a dish-not cable. Speed is usually fine for my needs, but the wireless sometimes goes out even on cell phones here.
-The only file I can remember not working in the old game was one of the last campaign games in East Front (predetermined unit size) didn't load. As I play the corps level, this really never effected me in the least. Yes-one mistake I can think of.
I am upset not about the money...not about the pain of so many questions and looking the fool, but simply because I want to play the new game with so many new options!!! I stick by my statement that a game should not be released without proper game testing. Bugs are common in some of the newer games. There are just too many critical ones in this new version. The Engineers...the mounted cavalry that shoots 47 times and crashes the game, etc. Crashing the game just means it's a waste of time to even play it. Sorry, that's the way I feel. Who has time for that?



Hermann -> RE: Various Campaign and other (2/16/2008 9:55:41 PM)

Actually I'm 100% behind Tim41 - As far as being a campaign rather than Scenario Player I know exactly where he is at. I've played CS both ways with 1000 or so ladder games to my credit. Tim seems like he has been around for quite some time, so I'm a little unclear on his motives. Tqalonsoft had a decent forum up and we got a couple very well tested patches from them. The Take Two nightmare was horrifying and really devastated a large part of the player base - I still feel prostituted. Matrix has given the game a new lease on life - Theyre willing to share developement with the gaming community. Judging by how Matrix has nurtured Steel Panthers over the years - I trust them to follow thru long term. Matrx had a choice - follow take to the banks policies and dress the game with some eye candy or try to give us a complete makeover, sacrificing the pretty graphics for some real playability and historical accuracy. All good enough, but lets get a look at what's happened here. Were using volunteer designers, coders and playtesters. Initially the project lacked maturity and central direction as can be seen from the first patch. With the second patch a lot of the over ambitious stuff was pulled ( not enough by my book - The Battalion HQ situation is still absurd and the engineer rules are totally irrevalant within the current game scale for campagin applications - they need to be optional for scenarios - and again a lot of the OB junk thats been happening is scenario and not campaign based. BUT I've read Jason's posts and theres going to be an option in 1.03 to use the origional CS campaign OB's ... problem solved. One thing I've noticed here is this forum is drawing a lot of harsh and productive criticism, AND that criticism is generating responses from the powers that be.
1. The first release was a disaster.
Jason and his thugz have responded by organizing a more efficient testing and quality control apparatus. Some overambitious additions are being toned down and refined.
2. The second release was a stopgap and addressed only critical gameplay issues - as such it was succesful and addressed the needs of the overwhelming majority of players.
Campaigners such as myself and Tim41 need to wait a bit longer, but thats accepteable.
3. The third release from my POV is being managed - thats patently obvious - I see a lot of thought, planning and organization going into this release. Let's hold off on the witch hunts until we see what comes of it.



Tim41 -> Witch Hunts? Game crashes fella... (2/16/2008 11:13:35 PM)

I think any game can have problems that can be solved but if it crashes in the Campaign mode (where the OB is not correct either) where I play, then THE GAME DOES NOT WORK. It's not just a slight inconvenience.
For now it's inoperable. Unplayable for me-for what I want out of the game. I can wait for the new version, but my old version is being effected by the new program as stated in another post from this morning with three examples. It's more a real pain in the ass more than a slight inconvenience now. RELOADING WILL CAUSE ME TO LOSE ALL MY COMMANDERS AND EXPERIENCE POINTS. Not a slight inconvenience.
It's not fun for a customer to have to explain these issues to the company. I'm a private player. I don't do the net. I have no motives but lack further patience for the problems associated with the game applications that apply to me directly. I am asked my opinions on games from time to time. I give them, but in this case I would not want friends to go through the frustration particular to the game in it's current state.



scottintacoma -> RE: Witch Hunts? Game crashes fella... (2/17/2008 12:10:35 AM)

Tim41,

You have 2 version of the game installed? Since they are going to use the same DLL and other management files, you are probably causing these problems your self.

I am running XP SP2, and have yet to have a problem with the JTCS version of the game.

Jason,

Keep up the good work.



Tim41 -> That is exactly the problem (2/17/2008 12:44:47 AM)

as related when my guy installed the game and patch 1.02 on the XP's (2 of 3 of them). He claimed that was a problem that could occur. I will pass along your comments but it seems strange you have had no problems in the new version in XP? I have all the same game problems in two of my XP computers loaded with the game JTCS.
As stated-the new version will be stored in a seldom used XP that does not include the older versions for the 1.03 version to come..... I'll simply have the older versions reinstalled in the other XP's.
ANYONE WHO HAS IMPUT-the computer guy is coming and I'm not having him return until 1.03: any comments welcome asap.



scottintacoma -> RE: That is exactly the problem (2/17/2008 5:11:16 AM)

Tim41,

I used the windows remove application to remove the original Talonsoft versions before I loaded JTCS. Since JTCS is a update/modification to the original, I would think that removing the original is required so that everything runs fine.

BY the way, I only play Dynamic Campaigns, and have had one minor problem, Which these forums told me how to correct.




michammer -> RE: That is exactly the problem (2/17/2008 5:57:32 AM)

Well, I have the original West Front, East Front II, and Rising Sun installed on my XP along with the new Matrix version and have had no problems at all. I am even playing 2 scenarios I had started in the old versions (1 in EFII and 1 in WF) in the new version without any problems.



e_barkmann -> RE: That is exactly the problem (2/17/2008 6:32:27 AM)


quote:

why after thousands of hours of play, East Front II Gold suddenly crashed yesterday?


fire 'your guy'.

He's screwed with your OS once too often.



Tim41 -> RE: That is exactly the problem (2/17/2008 6:34:32 AM)

When I loaded the new game and played it, the problems were too many to enjoy. The originals were left because I felt if there was a problem, then I had the fallback. Upon reading just an HOUR or so of forum questions/answers/"to be corrected in 1.03", I felt it was better to keep the older versions in case. More problems...more reading.
Obviously they must be removed. The game (the new JTCS) will be put in a XP by itself and the patch applied, though until 1.03 I don't see the point in playing. To show you I appreciate the advice-I'll give it another try but I don't think that has much to do with all the other issues.
I will continue on the older versions which never give me a problem. I never even had to apply a patch to the originals in any operating system yet (I don't run VISTA). I can put the older versions in my other XP's (or 95 or 98-still have both) and enjoy the game until the bugs are worked out in the newest version. It may take another several patches if Jason and crew are just discovering the loading issue with the trucks. New bugs will be found. I have been playing a long time and can wait for 1.03 or 04 or whatever.
Tomorrow or Monday I can enjoy my favorite game again (via the 2001 issue). Jason and company will get the game working (JTCS) at some point but I will be patient and await his email. I have done enough play testing on games in my life.
If your advice proves correct, I'll advise as honestly as I have in all these emails to the forum. The problems I have mentioned for the most part are not corrected at this time per the host of the forum. If the game crashes in the second battle of a Campaign game (or at all!), it's not fun to me. Looking for answers on forums is not fun to me. Others enjoy the interchange. Usually-I ask one or two questions and apply a patch and wow-a game works. Not in this case. Not yet but one hopes.
Thank you for your input. I will play test it alone and with the patch applied as discussed and advise.



Tim41 -> Fire him? (2/17/2008 6:40:02 AM)

How in hell is it his fault that the game has errors. They have nothing to do with him. My systems NEVER have problems. He built all of them. He's had to come to clean the fans once in two years. Wow-get on a forum and everyone is a God Damned expert.



Tim41 -> Great for you! (2/17/2008 6:42:42 AM)

Glad you have no problems. Not a help.



e_barkmann -> RE: Great for you! (2/17/2008 6:53:58 AM)

quote:

taken care of my systems for years


to me this says that he looks after your systems.

I'd say he doesn't do a good job of it. [:-]



Tim41 -> Thanks (2/17/2008 8:20:21 AM)

I'll fire the guy who designed and built my systems that have no problems. Pick on someone else eh? Thought Aussies were cool. I'm just looking for constructive advice-apparently you have none.



Tim41 -> Thanks all for your advice-ALL (2/17/2008 8:26:14 AM)

Hopefully the problems will be resolved in the 1.03. If you remember Jason, please let me know when 1.03 comes out. The forum seems to be using more of my time than the game.



michammer -> RE: Great for you! (2/17/2008 6:04:21 PM)

Well, the point I was trying to make is that I have managed to install all of the old versions, the new version and am able to play it WITHOUT problems - as have the majority of other people here. So is it the game or your system/guy. What is he having to do to help you install the game when all I had to do was download and click install. I have had no problems.



Warhorse -> RE: Great for you! (2/17/2008 6:54:01 PM)

Guys, chill out, he said his guy will write and explain what he's done! All machines are not created equal, as we all can surely agree on, one thing for sure, the new game DOES NOT require you to uninstall your old games. As I stated before, I have a total of 4 Divided Ground (one is my Korean War Mod), 4 EF, 9 WF, and 2 RS installs of the old games on my comp, and now, since the intro of the JSGME swapper, only 1 install of the JTCS, and I swap out my mods!! The new cause NO probs with the old, the only prob I had was a download for the Beta testing group which was messing with the registry or something, got a 484 error, we got that squared away, you guys shouldn't have had anything happen like that though..

Tim, hang in there man, we'll get to the bottom of this, please make sure you supply system specs to us, as well as resolution size, etc. Sometimes it is really the dumbest little thing!!

I see you play promarily the campaigns, as do I, I will tell you from first hand knowledge though that the DCG's in EF particularly have been a problem from day one with the old versions, we have found the problems with them. They wouldn't always crash right away, and with certain formations it may never crash, but with Panzer formations in particular, it was just a matter of time until it would, it was an oob problem. The Beta team, with great help from Richard Simonitch, are addressing the problems with the DCG's and that should be squashed!!

When you apply the patches, you must make sure that each folder is applied to each game correctly with the 1.02b patch, did you ensure this I guess?

If you like, feel free to PM or private email me if your dis-satisfied with the forum traffic if you have any further questions, I will try to help if I can!!

Mike



Tim41 -> Thank you anyway (2/17/2008 9:32:22 PM)

I have many games and some commercial applications on my systems. Yes it's easy to unload and reload the game. SOME of the problems are a result (as my guy warned) of having the two different versions using the same files. Am I an expert on systems? No. Can I load a game. Yes.
I work full time with two charities and have commercial insurance clients to deal with. Do I have time to become an expert on all the problems that a video game has...OR PLAY TEST IT? NO. How many questions and problems do you see on this site guy? Way too many to make it fun for me. More than I have ever seen.
When you get down to it-if the game crashes because of a software problems from the manufacturer, IT'S NOT THE FAULT OF THE SYSTEM IS IT? THE PROBLEMS ARE OBVIOUSLY NOT ALL MY OWN. If the game worked-would there be nearly 8,000 entries on this forum?
Who the hell has time for that? I am off this thing as soon as the old games are reinstalled. AGAIN-when you all are done doing the manufacturers job-I'll try the newer vesion again. For now-it's a GIANT WASTE OF TIME!



Tim41 -> Thank you Mike (2/17/2008 9:57:20 PM)

I will forward whatever 'my guy' finds. He has all the specs. Is it really gonna help you or others with the new JTCS? No.
Honestly-I really enjoyed the game until the new issue. It was not BETA tested and now there's this giant forum which is easily bigger than annual published Federal Budget. Your reply did not provide a private email and did not appear on my email.
There may be problems with the older game. Repeating of the sound effects (pop in and out-stops)-the one DC that does not load...no big deal. I still enjoyed the game.
No, I am not interested in the forum anymore. In fact I just want to get my older versions working again. I think we can accompish this without too much trouble. Problem solved. The new version is not worth the hassel to me any longer. Perhaps the powers in charge will take another road when producing a game for the market in future. They have lost my business, which in the end is the bottom line to any company. I am only one customer and there seems to be many loyal players who are not effected by the problems with the new issue. I don't know about you, but I am a wargamer-not a an employee of a gaming company.



Arctic Blast -> RE: Thank you Mike (2/18/2008 12:14:37 PM)

[X(]...wow...uhhh...just wow.

Seriously, are you bi-polar or something?



countblue -> RE: Who do I talk to about getting my money back (2/18/2008 3:43:19 PM)

correct.
I have EF II, WF and a copy of JTCS running on one machine.  No probs so far.

I also cannot confirm some of the other problems ppl seem to have. Although I had once the "cavalry unit firing to the end of time" effect.

If one expects a DCG Game to behave like a selfmade scenario hes on the wrong turf in my opinion.
Making you own LCG is the best solution to such complaints.

I have tried the engineers and boat stuff (rivercrossing), everything works out as it is supposed to for me.




Tim41 -> Please.... (2/19/2008 12:02:19 AM)

I have stated that the forum is not interesting. Not the only customer upset from what I read. Thanks for your medical evaluation...I'll go pop some Prozac immediately. Where does your kid go to school?



Tim41 -> Your comments show why this is a waste (2/19/2008 12:06:30 AM)

of time. Not productive. Just a jab.
Thanks for the med evaluation. I'll go pop some Prozac right now! Where does your kid go to school?
By the way-**** YOU!



Arctic Blast -> RE: Please.... (2/19/2008 12:12:41 AM)

Okay, first, to actually try and be of some help, Tim, if you need to send another user on here an email, you can click on their user name.
Look in the lower left of the screen that comes up, and you should see an option to send that user a private email.

I guess I just don't understand a private user spending literally hundreds of dollars to have someone come over and install games for them. But that's just me. In no way am I saying you're not allowed to criticize the game, or anything like that...obviously, anybody is entitled to their opinion. However, some of your points are a few thousand miles off base. You simply assume that the fact the Campaign series forum is so big obviously means everyone has problems...you obviously haven't noticed that the forums for EVERY game (including one you mentioned awhile back in terms of an example of a stable remake, Steel Panthers : World at War) has a huge forum, and most of the posts are people sharing information, stories, etc. with fellow players of the game.

Also, 99% of the problems people have with games made by ANY company comes back to some sort of an issue with the interaction between the game and their specific system setup. THAT is why everyone is wondering if that's what is going on here. It's nothing personal, it's simply that that's the case the majority of the time.

As for my earlier post, it was intended (at least partially) in jest, although you do seem to often be lurching from one end of the spectrum to the other in 2 posts a few minutes apart (speaking of which, do you SLEEP? [:D]).



Tim41 -> RE: Who do I talk to about getting my money back (2/19/2008 12:13:00 AM)

The boat thing was not an issue.
The engineer problem, the mounted cavalry problem and loading problems have not been corrected via Jason-they will be in 1.03. As stated-I will wait. The games will be all removed and reloaded in different systems. I'll wait for 1.03 and give it a try. Glad someone is enjoying both games without a problem.
Again though, how are your comments really relevant? The forum is like reading TMZ at this point-no time for that.



Tim41 -> I did not comment on Steel Panzers (2/19/2008 12:36:15 AM)

Someone else did. I do not play it. I do not play the other game mentioned though I own it.
Not all game forums are this big fella, but a few are. Usually I have no need as the patches work and we get all issues resolved in one day to get the game in playable form. Just never really have much use for them.
ONE post alone here hit the mark and explained what I was warned about-loading the new version in the same system as the old game. Many people are not experiencing that problem. Good, but that in no way helps to solve my problem. It's like hearing, "Well my **** works MF." Not in the least constructive.
I think I have stated that the problem will be solved in a few hours now about 5 times. MY experience with the old games was enjoyable. MY experience with the new one-not good.
Is it a crime or something to wait until issues important to me have been worked out by the game company (and players who have time and have made contributions that benefit us all)? I'm glad there is a forum. IT'S JUST NOT MY THING.
Thank you for the advice on the email situation. Copies of the responses go to my email, but that particular one did not. I assume you can contact the party directly from my email rather than posting.
After I get the old versions up again, the new version will be redownloaded onto an XP I rarely use with 1.02. In time the game will be corrected with other patches via Jason. AFTER THIS TODAY'S PROCESS IS COMPLETE, I'LL REMOVE MYSELF FROM THE FORUM. Thanks to all that have been a help and good luck to the others.
Tim41



e_barkmann -> RE: I did not comment on Steel Panzers (2/19/2008 12:47:45 AM)

damn.  Out of popcorn.



Tim41 -> Better get some more with 524 posts... (2/19/2008 1:05:44 AM)

Do ou spend the majority of your life on this Chris. 524 posts?????Go get a girlfriend, a pet...something.



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