Resource Types

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marcuswatney -> Resource Types (2/6/2008 1:52:02 PM)
It would give resource management more flavour if the types of resources represented by the symbols were noted in light italic alongside. Here are the Pacific resources. The ones on the map are shown in italics below: the others I include only for completeness. Note the dominance in real life of Malaya and the Netherlands East Indies, the latter valuable for much more than just oil. MAIN PRE-WAR STRATEGIC PRODUCTION, EXCLUDING OIL (mineral, world %, locations) Source: Oxford Economic Atlas of the World 1959, with pre-war statistics for comparison Note: chemical elements do not have capital initial letters, so when transferred to the map should be lower-case throughout Malaya Tin..............26%................Kinta/Larut Rubber........43%................almost all Malaya! Philippines Iron...................<1%................Cebu, northwest Mindoro (Cebu also produces copper) Chrome................3%............... Zambales (major) NW of Manila, Dinegat (minor) Gold.....................3%...............Luzon & NW of Legaspi Netherlands East Indies Tin.......................18%.............. .Bangka/Billiton Rubber.................36%...............whole east coast of Sumatra, most of Java French Indo-China Coal...................<1%..................Hanoi Manganese............<1%.............Yencu (2 hexes S Hanoi) Chrome................<1%.............Co-Dinh (SW Hanoi) Tin........................<1%.............Chodien (2 hexes NW Hanoi) Free China Tin.........................<1%.............Hohsien (near Kweilin) Iron.......................<1%............. Lanchow, but more in Kikiang Coal.......................<1%..............Szechwan (= Chengtu, Chungking), also Shensi (= Sian) Manganese............<1%.............Siangtan, Mosun Tungsten...............48%..............Tuyuling, Kweitung, Lokchang, Hohsien (province of Fukien) Mercury.................<1%.............Fenghwang Antimony...............36%.............Hunan Province (= 1SW Changsha) Intriguingly, there was a small oilfield in Szechwan! Isn’t it amazing that before the war 48% of the world’s tungsten came from Fukien? Occupied China Iron.........................................Tayeh (1 SE or 2 SE of Wuhan – big), 2N Peking, 3E Paotaw, Anshan (2S Mukden) Bauxite....................................Hainan Magnesium...............................Haicheng, Tashihkiao (both near Mukden) Coal........................................3 NE of Chengchow Gold........................................Tsitsihar (really should be a few hexes NW) What is the resource SW of Suchow supposed to represent? I see that it started life (May 2006) one hex NE of Nanking. Its present position corresponds only to an insignificant coalfield. Can we move it somewhere near Nanking and Wuhan = iron? Japanese Empire Iron...................................Formosa, Chaeryong (= Pyongyang) Lead....................................Fushun (2S Mukden) Coal...............4%..............2N Sapporo If it doesn’t affect play, it would be more accurate to move the Pyongyang resource 1SE into the mountains. Soviet Union (Far East) Iron.......................................1NE Vladivostok, Coal..........................................3NW 1W Kharborovsk Lead..........................................1SE Ussuri Tin.............................................1NW Hulun Antipodes Nickel.................... 8%............New Caledonia Lead......................... 16%..........Mount Isa Coal......................... <1%..........Newcastle Silver........................6%............Broken Hill Iron..........................2%............Iron Knob

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Resource Types (2/6/2008 6:12:01 PM)
I think you missed an opportunity to say that this would add more Chrome to the game.

Froonp -> RE: Resource Types (2/6/2008 11:22:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets I think you missed an opportunity to say that this would add more Chrome to the game. I just understood the joke now [:D] Here is a list of all resources of the MWiF games (non oil). I've a table where I added a column and entered the type of resource in that column, from your data. I hope they are right. See below, there are a LOT of blanks :-) MWiF Name MWiF Country MWiF RP Type of Res. Cardiff United Kingdom 1 Chengtu China 1 Chungking China 2 Coventry United Kingdom 1 Essen Germany 1 Georgetown British Guyana 1 Hanoi Indo-China 1 Coal Hanover Germany 1 Indianapolis USA 1 Karaganda USSR 1 Katowice Poland 1 Kerch USSR 1 Kursk USSR 1 Little Rock USA 1 Louisville USA 1 Magnitogorsk USSR 1 Metz France 1 Ndola Northern Rhodesia 1 Newcastle Australia 1 Coal Paramaribo Dutch Guyana 1 Petsamo Finland 1 Phoenix USA 1 Pittsburgh USA 1 Pola Italy 1 Pyongyang Korea 1 Iron Saarbrücken Germany 1 Sian China 1 Coal Stalinsk USSR 1 Sudbury Canada 1 Tsitsihar Manchuria 1 Gold Desert 80,21 Algeria 1 Clear 140,168 Australia 1 Lead Desert 156,172 Australia 1 Silver Clear 127,52 Belgian Congo 1 Clear 53,32 Belgium 1 Mountain 141,321 Bolivia 1 Clear 138,343 Brazil 1 Mountain 66,51 Bulgaria 1 Mountain 51,276 Canada 1 Forest 52,298 Canada 1 Forest 57,311 Canada 1 Clear 57,317 Canada 1 Mountain 136,319 Chile 1 Mountain 150,319 Chile 1 Mountain 158,318 Chile 1 Desert Mountain 68,141 China 1 Iron Mountain 72,130 China 1 Iron Clear 73,143 China 1 Coal Clear 78,146 China 1 Clear 86,142 China 1 Antimony Forest 90,138 China 1 Tin Mountain 92,313 Cuba 1 Mountain 75,60 Cyprus 1 Forest 54,39 Czechoslovakia 1 Clear 89,148 Formosa 1 Iron Clear 53,30 France 1 Clear 54,28 France 1 Clear 55,32 France 1 Clear 56,26 France 1 Mountain 62,31 France 1 Clear 49,36 Germany 1 Clear 50,40 Germany 1 Clear 51,33 Germany 1 Clear 53,38 Germany 1 Clear 53,43 Germany 1 Mountain 71,48 Greece 1 Forest 96,139 Hainan 1 Bauxite Clear 59,44 Hungary 1 Forest 90,106 India 1 Clear 90,113 India 1 Mountain 95,110 India 1 Forest 97,107 India 1 Mountain 62,33 Italy 1 Forest 64,37 Italy 1 Mountain 62,171 Japan 1 Coal Mountain 113,129 Malaya 1 Tin Jungle 115,130 Malaya 1 Rubber Mountain 67,145 Manchuria 1 Iron Mountain 68,151 Manchuria 1 Iron Clear 86,288 Mexico 1 Clear 49,33 Netherlands 1 Mountain 142,194 New Caledonia 1 Nickel Clear 40,35 Norway 1 Mountain 134,318 Peru 1 Mountain 101,151 Philippines 1 Gold Clear 52,45 Poland 1 Mountain 66,17 Portugal 1 Clear 70,34 Sardinia 1 Clear 100,11 Senegal 1 Clear 148,56 South Africa 1 Clear 155,53 South Africa 1 Mountain 62,18 Spain 1 Mountain 63,22 Spain 1 Mountain 69,19 Spain 1 Mountain 71,21 Spain 1 Forest 25,45 Sweden 2 Mountain 24,45 Sweden 1 Mountain 71,64 Turkey 1 Mountain 72,55 Turkey 1 Clear 54,273 USA 1 Clear 55,296 USA 1 Clear 64,296 USA 1 Clear 64,313 USA 1 Clear 65,299 USA 1 Clear 68,306 USA 1 Clear 69,293 USA 1 Clear 71,299 USA 1 Forest 56,299 USA 1 Forest 58,283 USA 1 Forest 71,307 USA 1 Forest 72,306 USA 1 Mountain 65,310 USA 1 Mountain 66,278 USA 1 Mountain 67,269 USA 1 Mountain 68,284 USA 1 Mountain 68,309 USA 1 Mountain 74,271 USA 1 Mountain 74,304 USA 1 Clear 43,62 USSR 1 Clear 51,64 USSR 1 Clear 52,145 USSR 1 Tin Clear 55,57 USSR 3 Iron Clear 67,99 USSR 1 Forest 39,88 USSR 1 Forest 42,87 USSR 1 Forest 49,112 USSR 1 Forest 59,162 USSR 1 Lead Forest 63,161 USSR 1 Iron Forest 63,72 USSR 1 Mountain 53,160 USSR 1 Coal Mountain 70,97 USSR 1 Forest 63,47 Yugoslavia 1 Mountain 65,47 Yugoslavia 1 Adding the type of resource beside the symbol, in a 2 letter code, low case, is a good idea. But I'd need to have this list more filled to make this interesting wouldn't I ?

Froonp -> RE: Resource Types (2/6/2008 11:28:55 PM)
First, thanks for this thread and this research. I like the idea of this thread. quote: ORIGINAL: marcuswatney What is the resource SW of Suchow supposed to represent? I see that it started life (May 2006) one hex NE of Nanking. Its present position corresponds only to an insignificant coalfield. Can we move it somewhere near Nanking and Wuhan = iron? This resource is placed in a coastal hex on the WiF FE original maps, and north of Nanking & Shanghai. I placed it on a rail here, so that it can be railed to a port. I think that if it was to represent what you propose, it would have been drawn in the Nanking hex. Any other idea of what it can be, north of Nanking ? quote: If it doesn’t affect play, it would be more accurate to move the Pyongyang resource 1SE into the mountains. I have no data about that. The only thing that I have is that the WiF FE maps have this resource in the same hex as Pyongyang, to the north of the city. This is the only resource of Korea, are you sure it is Iron and that it is placed 1 SE of the city ?

marcuswatney -> RE: Resource Types (2/7/2008 1:32:46 AM)
Looking at the original WiF FE map, the resource is shown in the vicinity of the Suchow rail junction and the coast. The only thing that fits the bill is phosphates at Tsingkow (named Haichow on my 1942 map - please check the name). Since only 15% of Japanese land can be cultivated, fertiliser like phosphates would have been valuable, particular since this is the only place in China that produces phosphates. However, it would have become much less valuable after the capture of Ocean and Nauru in 1942, where there are huge deposits of phosphates. I can confirm that the Korea resource should be 1SE of Pyongyang. The mine is called Chaeryong which Google places in those mountains. I will work on naming those other resources in the coming week, though I do think they should be spelt in full (in small italics), because an abreviation for antimony, for example, won't mean much to many people.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Resource Types (2/7/2008 2:41:48 AM)
Patrice, One possibility here is to use a very small font for the resource type so it doesn't take a lot of room. I can add a control so it will only be visible at a high resolution (say 6, 7, or 8).

Froonp -> RE: Resource Types (2/7/2008 8:37:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets Patrice, One possibility here is to use a very small font for the resource type so it doesn't take a lot of room. I can add a control so it will only be visible at a high resolution (say 6, 7, or 8). 6 is the size of famous battle sites, and 8 is the size of all named places that are neither cities nor port. 6 is the best. This is what I had in mind. Say that size 6 texts are only visible at zooms 5-8, this would be good IMO.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Resource Types (2/7/2008 10:16:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Froonp quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets Patrice, One possibility here is to use a very small font for the resource type so it doesn't take a lot of room. I can add a control so it will only be visible at a high resolution (say 6, 7, or 8). 6 is the size of famous battle sites, and 8 is the size of all named places that are neither cities nor port. 6 is the best. This is what I had in mind. Say that size 6 texts are only visible at zooms 5-8, this would be good IMO. Ok, let's try that and see whst it looks like.

Froonp -> RE: Resource Types (2/7/2008 12:02:38 PM)
I'll wait for a while to add the resource natures, I'll wait to have a majority of them covered. But there already are texts in size 6, so it will have a result.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Resource Types (2/7/2008 8:16:37 PM)
Here is probably the most congested part of the map for adding more text. The screen shots below are at zoom level 8 and 5. Historical sites are in size 6 font: Ardennes, Maginot Line, Eben Emael. If we add labels to the resource icons (e.g., Iron, Coal) using a size 6 font, it should be doable without too much more congestion. But I am planning on adding code to remove all labels with a font size of 6 or less when the zoom level is less than 5. [image]local://upfiles/16701/7B8951AC57E243F68FE70EC4F3310842.jpg[/image]

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Resource Types (2/7/2008 8:21:35 PM)
Here is the same area at zoom 7, before the Maginot Line was destroyed. [image]local://upfiles/16701/56E7C3E0AFD14531BDE6033958534C9E.jpg[/image]

composer99 -> RE: Resource Types (2/7/2008 9:44:34 PM)
I can vizualise what you mean, Steve. I think if the resources have names, they should be capitalized (Tin instead of tin, and so on). My impression is that all lower case names would look like a mistake.

Froonp -> RE: Resource Types (2/7/2008 10:31:55 PM)
I would really prefer a 2 letter code. Is there a list of 2 letter codes for common resources ?

Mziln -> RE: Resource Types (2/8/2008 12:07:26 AM)
[:D] resources [:D]

Froonp -> RE: Resource Types (2/8/2008 12:23:44 AM)
I found these : Thetford Mines Canada 1 Asbestos Pembroke Canada 1 Timber San Luis Cuba 1 Manganese Warangal India 1 Granite ? Knaben Norway 1 Molybdenum Kayes Senegal 1 Iron Premier Mine South Africa 1 Diamond Gällivare Sweden 2 Iron Kiruna Sweden 1 Iron Ironwood USA 1 Iron Krivoy Rog USSR 3 Iron Kokand USSR 1 Cotton ? Stalinabad USSR 1 Coal, lead, and arsenic These are places for which I researched the name of the proheminent city / town / settlement, just to put a name on the map, and who have a resource on them on the map. I doubt about Warangal and Kokand. Is granite and Cotton a resource ? About Stalinabad, which one of the 3 resources to keep ?

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Resource Types (2/8/2008 1:29:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Froonp I found these : Thetford Mines Canada 1 Asbestos Pembroke Canada 1 Timber San Luis Cuba 1 Manganese Warangal India 1 Granite ? Knaben Norway 1 Molybdenum Kayes Senegal 1 Iron Premier Mine South Africa 1 Diamond Gällivare Sweden 2 Iron Kiruna Sweden 1 Iron Ironwood USA 1 Iron Krivoy Rog USSR 3 Iron Kokand USSR 1 Cotton ? Stalinabad USSR 1 Coal, lead, and arsenic These are places for which I researched the name of the proheminent city / town / settlement, just to put a name on the map, and who have a resource on them on the map. I doubt about Warangal and Kokand. Is granite and Cotton a resource ? About Stalinabad, which one of the 3 resources to keep ? Keep Coal.

brian brian -> RE: Resource Types (2/8/2008 5:26:23 AM)
I've got 3 Salt ... anyone have any Ochre? What game are we playing here? Hey, if you send any more units over there, I won't be able to read all that text any more... Ok, so if I have the nickel from Finland and the molydenum Franco gave me and some chrome the Turks sent over, now can I build Tiger tanks and put the II SS ARM in the force pool?

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Resource Types (2/8/2008 7:11:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Froonp I found these : Thetford Mines Canada 1 Asbestos Pembroke Canada 1 Timber San Luis Cuba 1 Manganese Warangal India 1 Granite ? Knaben Norway 1 Molybdenum Kayes Senegal 1 Iron Premier Mine South Africa 1 Diamond Gällivare Sweden 2 Iron Kiruna Sweden 1 Iron Ironwood USA 1 Iron Krivoy Rog USSR 3 Iron Kokand USSR 1 Cotton ? Stalinabad USSR 1 Coal, lead, and arsenic These are places for which I researched the name of the proheminent city / town / settlement, just to put a name on the map, and who have a resource on them on the map. I doubt about Warangal and Kokand. Is granite and Cotton a resource ? About Stalinabad, which one of the 3 resources to keep ? About the cotton - it is usually good to not have your troops fight naked.

Zorachus99 -> RE: Resource Types (2/8/2008 7:58:17 AM)
"Humans find patterns where none exist" I think enumerating the type of resource will confuse more than illuminate. Particularly because there are only resources and oil in the game. Do you want to observe internecine arguments over the placement of resources in the game? Harry placed the resources to illustrate value, not the specifics therein.

marcuswatney -> RE: Resource Types (2/8/2008 1:41:11 PM)
I very much like knowing exactly what I am fighting over. If Patrice wants to limit himself to just two letters or so, then the thing to do is use the chemical symbols ... but I would much prefer spelt full in 6pt italic that disappears at low zoom levels. Much more satisfying. I don't think timber and fibres like cotton can be considered war materiel worthy of a map-symbol (unless we are building triremes!) I am limiting myself to anything dug out of the ground. These are the ones I sorted today: Cardiff coal Chengtu coal Chungking coal Coventry iron Essen coal Georgetown British Guyana bauxite Hanover iron Katowice coal Metz iron Paramaribo Dutch Guyana bauxite Petsamo cobalt Pola bauxite Saarbrucken coal Belgium phosphates Bolivia tin You learn something new every day. 12% of the world's bauxite came from British Guyana and a further 7% from neighbouring Dutch Guyana. And who would have guessed cobalt at Petsamo? If others can focus on North American resources that would be helpful as I know little of that continent.

Toed -> RE: Resource Types (2/8/2008 2:47:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zorachus99 "Humans find patterns where none exist" I think enumerating the type of resource will confuse more than illuminate. Particularly because there are only resources and oil in the game. Do you want to observe internecine arguments over the placement of resources in the game? Harry placed the resources to illustrate value, not the specifics therein. I fully agree with Zorachus99 here. I can just hear the argument 'How can you build that militia unit with no Iron/cotton/(or other basic resource) in you control? While passingly interesting this work seems to take time that could be spent more productively. Or even by resting for a bit. [:)]

Froonp -> RE: Resource Types (2/8/2008 3:07:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Toed quote: ORIGINAL: Zorachus99 "Humans find patterns where none exist" I think enumerating the type of resource will confuse more than illuminate. Particularly because there are only resources and oil in the game. Do you want to observe internecine arguments over the placement of resources in the game? Harry placed the resources to illustrate value, not the specifics therein. I fully agree with Zorachus99 here. I can just hear the argument 'How can you build that militia unit with no Iron/cotton/(or other basic resource) in you control? While passingly interesting this work seems to take time that could be spent more productively. Or even by resting for a bit. [:)] I understand what you say guys, and it is not yet done that the resources have a name beside them, but I always had this interest to know what the WiF resources were in reality, so even if only for that reason, I like this thread, and I'll keep on completing my Excel sheet where I listed all MWiF cities, ports, resources, oil and factories, and to which I added the nature of resources. [:D] [8D] And thanks to Marcus to reviving the map review threads [:D]. Which is not an encouragement, as I think we all prefer the changes from WiF FE to MWiF to be minimal.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Resource Types (2/8/2008 6:31:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Toed quote: ORIGINAL: Zorachus99 "Humans find patterns where none exist" I think enumerating the type of resource will confuse more than illuminate. Particularly because there are only resources and oil in the game. Do you want to observe internecine arguments over the placement of resources in the game? Harry placed the resources to illustrate value, not the specifics therein. I fully agree with Zorachus99 here. I can just hear the argument 'How can you build that militia unit with no Iron/cotton/(or other basic resource) in you control? While passingly interesting this work seems to take time that could be spent more productively. Or even by resting for a bit. [:)] Well, this is zero work for me. I think an extra sentence explaining that the printed resource types have no influence on game play would be enough. It would go in the rules where we explain what the oil and non-oil resource symbols represent. In fact, a few more words about what resources, production points, and build points represent wouldn't hurt. As for whether this extra text might be confusing, it is no different than naming the islands, mountainous regions, and historical battle sites. I was wondering if maybe we should use a different color for the font, just for some variety (e.g., silver, pale blue, light green, gray, ..?). It does not have to be a single color for all the resource types, maybe 2 or 3 to permit better contrast against mountain and clear terrain hexes. I believe that using words would be better than abbreviations. Most of them will be short (Coal, Iron, Tin) and the longer names rare - justifying the larger footprint by their rarity.

SamuraiProgrmmr -> RE: Resource Types (2/8/2008 6:46:09 PM)
I would just throw this in.... In learning to play newer wargames I have found myself relying more and more on After Action Reports (AARs) written by the community. I think these can be a useful tool in encouraging others to buy the game and try it out. When writing (and reading) AARs, the phrase 'cotton resource in southern Germany' conveys as much information as 'the resource 3 hexes SW of XXXX' and can be both written and read without stopping to consult a map. I think it is nice 'flavor' without adding much work for the developer. All that has to happen is to explain that these designations are generalizations that do not have any effect on actual gameplay. Also, I believe this will apply to both email and verbal exchanges between team members when planning their strategies.

composer99 -> RE: Resource Types (2/8/2008 6:58:49 PM)
As this discussion goes on, it must also be observed that the non-oil resources are abstractions and often also agglomerations of strategically valuable resources, the placement of which must take gameplay considerations into account at least as much (if not more) as historical ones (owing to the still-vast scale of the map and the very abstracted nature of production). WiF is as 'beer & pretzels' as a game of its scope can get, and too much flavour-detail can take away from that (which I think would be a discredit to WiF).

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Resource Types (2/8/2008 7:03:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: composer99 As this discussion goes on, it must also be observed that the non-oil resources are abstractions and often also agglomerations of strategically valuable resources, the placement of which must take gameplay considerations into account at least as much (if not more) as historical ones (owing to the still-vast scale of the map and the very abstracted nature of production). WiF is as 'beer & pretzels' as a game of its scope can get, and too much flavour-detail can take away from that (which I think would be a discredit to WiF). How about words to the effect: "One of the critical/important (or the most critical/important) natural resource represented by the resource symbol is shown as a label next to th e resource symbol."

marcuswatney -> RE: Resource Types (2/8/2008 7:57:11 PM)
"The principal resource produced by that region is printed beside the resource symbol. It is shown for historical interest only and has no effect on game-play."

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Resource Types (2/8/2008 8:59:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marcuswatney "The principal resource produced by that region is printed beside the resource symbol. It is shown for historical interest only and has no effect on game-play." Lovely. Perhaps adding something about the resource being used in manufacturing war materiel? - but in one or two words instead of 6.[:D]

composer99 -> RE: Resource Types (2/8/2008 9:19:23 PM)
Perhaps "the principal resource of military value produced [...]"?

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Resource Types (2/8/2008 9:20:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: composer99 Perhaps "the principal resource of military value produced [...]"? Yes. Thanks.

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