Replayability Question (Full Version)

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markl -> Replayability Question (4/19/2008 11:36:20 AM)

Hi,
I am looking at a few titles trying to decide what to purchase next. I have been looking at Panzer Command: Kharkov at it seems to have a lot of replayability.

However I have all the first series of Combat Mission titles and though this one may be more different since it has land sea and air included. I tried Pacific Storm but found it too hard and buggy.

What is the replayability like with this series? Is the campaign dynamic or different each time or is a a one shot campaign.

I have read a bit but can not see anything about a quick mission generator or campaign generator. Do I have this correct.

Any opinions would be welcome.

Cheers MarkL



rockmedic109 -> RE: Replayability Question (4/19/2008 1:25:36 PM)

Replayability?  Restartability may be the best way to describe it.  I've only played full campaigns and have never got to 1944. 

Playing the full war will take so long that you will have forgotten not only your opponent's moves but yours as well.  And it is easy to play a few months {game time} then play something else for a while and come back and play a few more months.  This one will stay on your hard drive for a long time.

There is no quick mission generator or a campaign generator.  The campaign is the entire war.  Different mistakes or random chance will change the outcome sufficiently enough that no two games will EVER be the same.

This is one of the truly great games and the upcoming Admiral's Edition will make it THE truly great game.



treespider -> RE: Replayability Question (4/19/2008 1:32:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: markl

Hi,
I am looking at a few titles trying to decide what to purchase next. I have been looking at Panzer Command: Kharkov at it seems to have a lot of replayability.

However I have all the first series of Combat Mission titles and though this one may be more different since it has land sea and air included. I tried Pacific Storm but found it too hard and buggy.

What is the replayability like with this series? Is the campaign dynamic or different each time or is a a one shot campaign.

I have read a bit but can not see anything about a quick mission generator or campaign generator. Do I have this correct.

Any opinions would be welcome.

Cheers MarkL



WitP may not be your cup of tea...The grand campaign starts on Dec 7, 1941 and covers the entire War in the Pacific on a day by day basis. The units are composed of individual squads, guns, tanks, aircraft, pilots and ships as small as PT Boats and Motor launches. It is highly detailed and a test in micro management with a substantial learning curve.

However once you get around the curve there is no other game/simulation that even comes close.... because you have to concern yourself with every aspect of WWII pacific warfare....not only the fighting but the logistics.

There are no quick mission generators in WitP - there are 25 scenarios in WitP, and in AE I believe 6 are planned. In addition there is a terrific editor that allows you to create your own scenarios if you want to. The game will play differently each time depending on what strategic choices you make because the area covered is so vast.



Shark7 -> RE: Replayability Question (4/19/2008 6:21:59 PM)

Plus there is the PBEM option which is the ultimate in replayability, as no two humans play the game in the same manner.  Some are extremely agressive, while others (like me) tend to be extremely cautious.

However, even the AI does provide a decent amount of replayability, as you are not locked into a puzzle solving method of finding just the right way to accomplish your goals (as many mission based games do).

The learning curve is very steep.  Be prepared to play the tutorial, and spend some time playing the AI on a learning basis.  It is not insurmountable, but it does take some time to get used to the micromanagement of your resources.

If you enjoy very detailed games that require thought rather than reflexes, you'll most likely enjoy WitP.  If you don't like having to micro-manage, then WitP might not suit you.



markl -> RE: Replayability Question (4/20/2008 6:28:24 AM)

Thanks for the responses. From reading a few more reviews and the above posts I can see this may be a bit too complex for me at this stage. The leap from the Combat Mission series to this one now looks bigger than it originally did.

I have seen COTA on a PC. That was where I found out about Matrix Games. I really liked the map, but those icons would take a lot of getting used to as well.

Does anyone have any recommendations as to what would be a good staging game from the Combat Mission series to War in the Pacific or COTA?

I think I would like to aspire to get to War in the Pacific play status, but I need to breach the gap first.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Cheers MarkL



2ndACR -> RE: Replayability Question (4/20/2008 8:28:10 AM)

Well, to become worthy of WITP.......try Uncommon Valor..............the baby brother to WITP. If you find UV way too complex, well........WITP is orders of magnitude more complex.

You can also try PACWAR the matrix edition which is a free download here. The great, great grandfather of WITP.

But for replayability, like has been said above........nothing like PBEM. If you can synch your schedules, you can really burn thru the turns. Trading save files using MSN messenger or AOL IM is the fastest way to go.



Crimguy -> RE: Replayability Question (4/20/2008 9:15:07 AM)

COTA is not particularly complicated.  It is a helluva lot of fun and has IMHO the best AI out there.

If you'd like intermediate complexity, I love COTA.  Kept me awake for hours when I was taking care of my newborn son.  Other two games I highly recommend are AGEOD's American Civil War and Take Command:  Second Manassas.  Both are superb.

I also would say that, if you're thinking about WitP, just skip UV and go for it.  They play practically the same, and WitP has smaller scenarios.  It's been on my hard drive since it's release and, like others have said, it's a game that you'll put down for a while, but repeatedly come back to.  I had put all my turn-based games down for a while (Football Manager took over my life) and over the past 2-3 months have reinstalled tons of them - The Operational Art of War, Flashpoint Germany, HPS Kursk.  WitP is the one that got me fully hooked again.  I'm thinking of starting a PBEM even though I know I (and my partner likely) will want to drop it in months when AE comes out.



rockmedic109 -> RE: Replayability Question (4/20/2008 11:29:56 AM)

You can try Uncommon Valor but it is pretty much the same game as WITP on a smaller scale.  WITP is not any more complex than UV, just four or five times the scope.  It looks like there will be a bigger leap from WITP to AE than there was between UV and WITP. 

Try PACWAR.  Its free and if you start enjoying the grand strategic scope, then you'd enjoy WITP.  WITP is not a difficult game to learn or grasp.....it's just a LOT of info to absorb and a little daunting if not outright frightening when you set orders for your first turn.



Shark7 -> RE: Replayability Question (4/20/2008 6:03:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

it's just a LOT of info to absorb and a little daunting if not outright frightening when you set orders for your first turn.


Actually that first turn is the worst, after that it's not so bad.

Also, if you play one of the smaller scnenarios the first turn orders aren't that bad either. It's the grand campaign that is frightening when issuing first turn orders. Not so much that it is any harder to do, just that there is so much to do and it is so easy to forget to do once crucial thing. The key is to save often, then before hitting the end turn button, run through all the major bases and check to see if you got it all done.



Crimguy -> RE: Replayability Question (4/20/2008 6:53:26 PM)

The first turn is a bear.  As the Japanese with an ahistorical beginning, it will take days of planning!  I've never done it (I'm always the Americans because I'm too lazy), but have been impressed with some of the first turn executions I've seen on the AAR's.



2ndACR -> RE: Replayability Question (4/20/2008 7:10:46 PM)

The 1st time I did a first turn as Japan, it took roughly 3 days to form my plans and then 20 hours to input the orders. Now, I have the first turn down to about 3 hours planning, and 1-2 hours plotting the moves.

Of course it helps that I have 6 seperate legal pads filled with notes, orders, industry changes etc. One pad each for all 6 of my different opening moves and each has phase 2 and 3 moves all the way out to Apr 42 and variations of what goes where etc if the allies do not cooperate. And I can mix them up if I decide to, taking a little from each depending on my opponents play style.



Grotius -> RE: Replayability Question (4/21/2008 4:39:54 AM)

If the original poster likes CM, he should indeed consider Panzer Command: Kharkov. I actually prefer PCK to CM, though of course not everyone agrees with me. To me, PCK feels more like Advanced Squad Leader, and I was an ASL fanatic back in the day. Go check out the 'first impressions' thread in the PCK forum.

WITP is a vastly different game than either CM or PCK. It's almost apples and oranges. WITP is a monster game, my favorite-ever computer wargame, but it's not for everyone.



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