What makes this game so great? (My thoughts) (Full Version)

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IronicFate -> What makes this game so great? (My thoughts) (9/30/2000 8:48:00 PM)

Dear all, I was getting some groceries this morning after my viewing of Private Ryan. As I drove I thought about all the wargames that I have purchased (Which would be the reason I never eat.. no more money! LOL). And something occured to me as I was getting fired up about eating some bacon. Military wargames have become too dependent upon graphics and flashy headings. As the younger generation blasts away mindlessly into the night (excuse the poetism), they forget what makes the mind so great. Imagination. As many many gamers have BEGGED for accelerated, Graphically intense video games they lose the ability to simply imagine what they would see. There is already a predefined defintion of what is in front of them. Many video games today have troops you can gun down blood flying everywhere and moans of pain. Hence predefined defintion. This is where I believe that Steel Panther's has gained such support and large fan base. No accelerated graphics, no screwed up coding for those graphics that would cause computer instabilities. Simply put, this game is the breeding ground for imagination. As one of my 30cal machine guns go off I can almost see the infantry firing it watching the tracer rounds punching through a patch of trees. The standard is set through the player, not the designer(s). Instead of eye candy, this SIMULATION is data candy. It has more depth and thought than mindless shooting games with no real way for the mind to roam. You know what you see, you know when something is going to happen and you know what the outcome will be. That begins to become boring quite quickly. I realized last night how much my mind was working. How many different things I was imagining as the fighting was fierce at Ramelle (NUDGE WBW). As we all beg for hyped, eye candy intensive video games that will never run perfectly, I will be sitting back letting my mind imagine what is happening around me. I would rather have a human brain telling me what I want to see instead of a designer telling me what I should see. And that is gaming at it's best........ Mike AKA: Ironic Fate ------------------ " Even The Fog Of War Cannot Obscure The Horror Of It" [This message has been edited by IronicFate (edited September 30, 2000).]



Peregrine Falcon -> (9/30/2000 10:12:00 PM)

My (short?) thoughts... Number of countries, equipment (!) [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img], enough accurate data for units...Sound, graphics (they have dated some of course, give me 16/24-bit palette anytime) This combined gives countless possibilities to make battles and create even something that is not historic...(Soviet vs US 1946?) I think this is what makes SP(WAW) great, and it might take some time to create something that will eventually replace it. Steel Panthers belongs to Wargame History Museum (if there is one) - No question about that...
quote:

Originally posted by IronicFate: Dear all, I was getting some groceries this morning after my viewing of Private Ryan. As I drove I thought about all the wargames that I have purchased (Which would be the reason I never eat.. no more money! LOL). And something occured to me as I was getting fired up about eating some bacon. Military wargames have become too dependent upon graphics and flashy headings. As the younger generation blasts away mindlessly into the night (excuse the poetism), they forget what makes the mind so great. Imagination. As many many gamers have BEGGED for accelerated, Graphically intense video games they lose the ability to simply imagine what they would see. There is already a predefined defintion of what is in front of them. Many video games today have troops you can gun down blood flying everywhere and moans of pain. Hence predefined defintion. This is where I believe that Steel Panther's has gained such support and large fan base. No accelerated graphics, no screwed up coding for those graphics that would cause computer instabilities. Simply put, this game is the breeding ground for imagination. As one of my 30cal machine guns go off I can almost see the infantry firing it watching the tracer rounds punching through a patch of trees. The standard is set through the player, not the designer(s). Instead of eye candy, this SIMULATION is data candy. It has more depth and thought than mindless shooting games with no real way for the mind to roam. You know what you see, you know when something is going to happen and you know what the outcome will be. That begins to become boring quite quickly. I realized last night how much my mind was working. How many different things I was imagining as the fighting was fierce at Ramelle (NUDGE WBW). As we all beg for hyped, eye candy intensive video games that will never run perfectly, I will be sitting back letting my mind imagine what is happening around me. I would rather have a human brain telling me what I want to see instead of a designer telling me what I should see. And that is gaming at it's best........ Mike AKA: Ironic Fate



RUsco -> (10/1/2000 1:14:00 AM)

I like the Op-fire option the bst of all new features. The opertunity to keep hidden the units you wish to keep hidden and the ability to consere ammunition for more important targets. The new sounds are just as important. Sit back and listen and you will think you are there.(almost) I also like this leavel of warfare.[Platoon and Compan]. I have tried Higher leavels of wargamew(The Operational Art or War) and cannot relate to them.



Wild Bill -> (10/1/2000 3:55:00 AM)

Versatility, as has been stated in other forms. The ability to have top-notch graphics with 27 nations for a 20 year period from team to regimental level on every type of terrain imaginable is much more than the general wargame ever offers. And so many things can be done within the editor itself, plus access to the OOBs for additional personal mods. Its a winner and will be for years to come. Wild Bill ============== ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



Tombstone -> (10/1/2000 3:59:00 AM)

If SPWAW had better graphics that would not upset me in the least. I think the real problem is not that good graphics make a game bad... in todays world developers are starting to realize that in order stay afloat you need a lot of sales. And the easiest way to do that is take a simple idea and pretty it up as much as possible. Wargames and RPGs are among the few remaining types of games where gameplay even matters. Tomo



Greg McCarty -> (10/1/2000 4:16:00 AM)

A lot of good insite here. There is a reason why this game design continues to prevail while other seemingly more advanced ones languish or fail to inspire. There is much about this one that is just right. The graphics actually are more " right " than it might seem. There is something about the way we can panoramic view the entire battle field much like Rommel might have while flying over the desert in a storch. You can get a more real sense of the overall progression of things with this approach. It must have seemed "right" to Grigsby as well. His instincts were good. The new sounds and ambiance are excellent. The overall concept engages the best features of historic boardgames like "Squad Leader" which were champions of their time, and builds on the concept. Maybe the best way I can articulate why this game is so superior is to point out that in the broad scheme of things, this design does far more things right, or at least very well, than any other design to date, and in my judgement will remain the model for all others for the forseeable future. Greg.



Toey -> (10/1/2000 4:53:00 AM)

Op fire option. Sounds - both in game and the ambient back ground MG fire (that is awesome) Graphics ATMOSPHERE!!!!!!!



Don Doom -> (10/1/2000 5:06:00 AM)

I have played sp1-3 and some of spwaw, I believe the gent's here have taken a great wargame and made it even better. I thank all the people who made this such a Great War game. Keep up the Great Work. Don



Colonel Klink -> (10/1/2000 6:28:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by IronicFate: Military wargames have become too dependent upon graphics and flashy headings
I can agree with your premise. A good computer game models what a good boardgame did for me.. Tactics, Tactics, Tactics.. Or strategy (i.e. 3rd Reich by AH) If the graphics enhance the experience then i'm all for it. If its just a shoot-em-up then No thanks.



Joe Osborne -> (10/1/2000 6:52:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Toey: ATMOSPHERE!!!!!!!
Yup, this is what we are after...both as a game, and historically....as many have pointed out in this thread you could get better "wargaming eye candy" in other places.....but SPWAW strikes a balance. I've bought other games ... some are "very historicaly realistic" but the graphics are "gruesome"...I've bought others where the graphics are great but things like supply..stability...command/control suck. I guess this is like bragging about one of your kids [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] but I think SPWAW is THE best in giving the tactical wargamer a good blend. A great "wargaming atmosphere" [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] .... Joe Osborne Director Matrix Games Network



ruxius -> (10/1/2000 9:50:00 AM)

Hi to everybody...very glad to see so many enthusiastic supporters of SP-SPWAW..!!! I have to say one thing ...even if I could not say properly why , it's a matter of fact : I SPENT A LARGE PART OF MY LIFE IN PLAYING-DISCUSSING-DREAMING SP ! SP first brought me in the real battlefield..where you can see your SINGLE tank moving and acting like a real one... before SP ? only groups of units !...for the first time I could see what I read on books about WWII.. and this added to all other thing you have reported...!! Atmosphere is the best as you pointed ! Technical details .. .simplicity..thoughtfullness ...stability.. easy to play against a friend ...opened to all theatres of war and also introducing Italy !!! Too many qualities to be mentioned here.. ! Now Matrix games gave SP a road to eternity.. How could we heartily reciprocate ?



Wild Bill -> (10/1/2000 9:53:00 AM)

Not many games can make you shout, curse, stomp, laugh and be a general nuisance to the neighborhood like this one. You FEEL the loss of that tank, the one that just pulled off a miracle and took out two Panthers. It really HURTS! Or that squad being whittled down, but holding on to the last man as you desperately try to rescue it. You can hear taps playing in your head as he dies under withering enemy assaults. And what about that recoil that almost throws you out of your chair when your men trip a mine? Then of course, your heart pounds every time ack-ack buffets your Stuka in its diving run as you dread the sudden flames, spin and crash! Atmosphere indeed, gentlemen. It pervades the room when you play. Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games [This message has been edited by Wild Bill (edited September 30, 2000).]



ruxius -> (10/1/2000 8:01:00 PM)

Hey Bill how could I have stayed all this time alone in my SP-feelings before you all came out and I met you ? HOw How ? Please be hard to die this time !!! We are too affectionating to all of you !



Rickenbacker -> (10/1/2000 10:33:00 PM)

SP:WAW is great because it takes the original Steel Panthers and finally does it just right. I really can't find anything to seriously complain about here, it's a true classic in its genre, comparable to giants like X-com, Doom and Gunship 2000. All IMHO of course [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. ------------------ Mats 'Rickenbacker' Nylund -------------------------- rickenbacker@innocent.com



Drex -> (10/1/2000 11:54:00 PM)

I'm amazed at the depth of this game , the intellectual challenge it gives you and the just plain fun playing it. The added feature is to read this forum and all the info that comes with it. Truly an added bonus. I've learned more about this game just reading the topics here than I ever could by the manual or on my own.



Wild Bill -> (10/2/2000 2:29:00 AM)

God willing, Ruxius, I'll be around for a while. I'm a pretty tough old bird and besides some faulty vision and a memory that could stand some improving (we call that around here "kunelitis!" Careful, it's infectious [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] ), I'm in it for the long haul. I'm glad you are here too, my friend. We are always at your orders, ready to help any way we can. Personally, I want to thank you for this very thoughtful note. It means a lot to me! Mats and Drex, in fact all of you, I'm glad we had the opportunity to share our hobby via this forum, making new friends and enhancing our love of the hobby. Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



ruxius -> (10/2/2000 4:52:00 PM)

Oh Bill ! so you give us hoping of see your Wildness for still a long time ? Heart is reassured ! Even if my Dictionary doesn't report words as "Kunelitis" or "haul" I understand you are planning to have a long life here among us ! Great ! If sometimes you will loose this kind of interest tell me and I will take you on the right way at once :-))))))))))))) And obviously but never the same : "Thank you !"



Heartland -> (10/2/2000 8:43:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by IronicFate: As we all beg for hyped, eye candy intensive video games that will never run perfectly, I will be sitting back letting my mind imagine what is happening around me. I would rather have a human brain telling me what I want to see instead of a designer telling me what I should see. And that is gaming at it's best........
I completely agree with your entire post. This, to me, is the same reason that books are more enjoyable than films and TV, especially if the film are an adaptation from a book. So much more can go on in a persons head than can ever be shown on a TV, cinema, or monitor screen.



jpkeenan -> (10/2/2000 10:50:00 PM)

I would like to add my two cents into what I feel makes this game so great. First of all it is darn near perfect in BALANCE .. Just the right blend of strategy, tactics, sound, combined with a friendly interface. But those are the TECHNICAL reasons why the game is so good. The rest of the story is difficult to put a finger on, but here is my humble attempt at doing so...The folks at Matrix, with our response, have created a community! A lot of groups like this self-destruct due to sarcasm, self-centered people, and selfishness. This group has none of that! Just look at the genuine affection in the tone of the posts! Wild Bill's truly genuine and caring manner, the direct contact with game developers and the patience they demonstrate with posters. We have something unique here with our cyber community. I love the game, but I enjoy the FELLOWSHIP even more. Let's jealously guard our little niche in cyberspace,and thanks Matrix for providing it. JPKeenan



B52g -> (10/3/2000 3:28:00 AM)

Lets make that four cents! Its a game that can be played even on a low end computer, it can reach everybody. I will go with you guys who say that the graphics dont have to be wiz bang 3D go get a new computer and video card to play this game. Its just complex enough that you can customize it but not soo complex that even I can understand it! [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Here is the big one: The SCENERIOS! With a dedicated group of people making top notch scenerios, I can be anybody anywhere, anytime. Between this Sp and the older SP games you can play a couple of different Scenerios a day and never play the same game twice in a year. And I wouldnt want to forget the people who have tweaked this engine. The people who made this game better by doing some things I could only Dream about a few years ago. My Favorites are: 1: Killing the AI cheats 2: Bringing the Artillary under control 3: Adding on-line Play 4: The new opportunity fire is great! I used to dream of being able to hold my fire until they got closer! 5: All the nice Icons and graphics for the game and encyclopedia. 6: The history and background material that turns this game into a learning experience for me. But there is one thing that bothers me though, I know that as a gamer, I cant keep up with all the improvements, Scenerios etc... I know I am not getting much sleep, so you guys cant be getting any sleep. I am serious, dont push too hard, I can wait!



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