RE: THE THREAD!!!

RE: THE THREAD!!! (Full Version)

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gladiatt -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 1:04:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AW1Steve quote: ORIGINAL: gladiatt quote: ORIGINAL: AW1Steve There are a lot of alternative histories, and I like most of them (as I do SciFi). I particularly like Conroy. Turtledove is surley the most prolific. [:)] I should write a novell where Jeanne d'Arc (Joan of Arc) isn't burn't by french clergy according to the will of the english power of XVe century !! That would be a nice alternative history [:D] Would it? If you don't burn "the maid of Orleans", will France ever truly unify? Or will it continue as half French/half English? [&:] More seriously: historians are trying to guess if it wasn't just something to make unity quicker than expected, but Joan was not the trigger of unity: she was the effect of the feeling rising in the country. At least, it's what's historian tell about this. Of course, French historian can not admit that we wouldn't have won in the long run....

AW1Steve -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 1:06:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gladiatt quote: ORIGINAL: Dixie quote: ORIGINAL: AW1Steve quote: ORIGINAL: Dixie quote: ORIGINAL: gladiatt quote: ORIGINAL: Dixie It seems that the French aren't too happy with England's role in Joan of Arc's demise [:'(] Here NNNNOOOO, not twice !! [:@] Don't take it as an habbit [:D] It is becoming a bit of a hobby for us [:D] You lot need to be more Churchillian in your restraint. There were many jokes about DeGaulle fancying himself to be Joan reincarnated, and memebers of the joint chiefs who felt that Churchill needed to burn him at the stake "just in case". [:D] De Gaulle was one of those people who just makes friends easily though [:'(][:D] Of course, if nobody admit it in public, he had to make it know by himself [;)] Shouldn't have tried so hard. Have you ever read his book, "The Army of the Future"? It's brilliant! He out Guderians Guderian, before Guderian ! ???? [:D]

rtrapasso -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 1:07:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AW1Steve Why is it that every army seems to have at least one brilliant blowhard? [:)] i think they have loads of blowhards... maybe that there is only one brilliant one perhaps reflect the overall IQ of the organizations?? [&:] [:'(]

gladiatt -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 1:12:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AW1Steve quote: ORIGINAL: gladiatt quote: ORIGINAL: Dixie quote: ORIGINAL: AW1Steve quote: ORIGINAL: Dixie quote: ORIGINAL: gladiatt quote: ORIGINAL: Dixie It seems that the French aren't too happy with England's role in Joan of Arc's demise [:'(] Here NNNNOOOO, not twice !! [:@] Don't take it as an habbit [:D] It is becoming a bit of a hobby for us [:D] You lot need to be more Churchillian in your restraint. There were many jokes about DeGaulle fancying himself to be Joan reincarnated, and memebers of the joint chiefs who felt that Churchill needed to burn him at the stake "just in case". [:D] De Gaulle was one of those people who just makes friends easily though [:'(][:D] Of course, if nobody admit it in public, he had to make it know by himself [;)] Shouldn't have tried so hard. Have you ever read his book, "The Army of the Future"? It's brilliant! He out Guderians Guderian, before Guderian ! ???? [:D] Guderian, IIRC , had read De Gaulle. The political power in Germany heard Guderian; the political power in France didn't heard De Gaulle........

AW1Steve -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 1:14:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rtrapasso quote: ORIGINAL: AW1Steve Why is it that every army seems to have at least one brilliant blowhard? [:)] i think they have loads of blowhards... maybe that there is only one brilliant one perhaps reflect the overall IQ of the organizations?? [&:] [:'(] Perhaps, there doesn't seem to be any way to test or quatify that. But you had Degalle for the French,Patton for the US and Montgomery for the US. Many would add MacAurthr, but I found him to be only occassionally brilliant . Each of these men seemed to do a better job planning then their peers, then spend an inordinate amount of time and effort in proclaiming their brilliance. I suppose if they didn't scream how smart they were, then no one would have noticed , and we would simply have 3 (or4) more competant generals that no one ever noticed or made movies about. [8\|]

AW1Steve -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 1:19:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gladiatt quote: ORIGINAL: AW1Steve quote: ORIGINAL: gladiatt quote: ORIGINAL: Dixie quote: ORIGINAL: AW1Steve quote: ORIGINAL: Dixie quote: ORIGINAL: gladiatt quote: ORIGINAL: Dixie It seems that the French aren't too happy with England's role in Joan of Arc's demise [:'(] Here NNNNOOOO, not twice !! [:@] Don't take it as an habbit [:D] It is becoming a bit of a hobby for us [:D] You lot need to be more Churchillian in your restraint. There were many jokes about DeGaulle fancying himself to be Joan reincarnated, and memebers of the joint chiefs who felt that Churchill needed to burn him at the stake "just in case". [:D] De Gaulle was one of those people who just makes friends easily though [:'(][:D] Of course, if nobody admit it in public, he had to make it know by himself [;)] Shouldn't have tried so hard. Have you ever read his book, "The Army of the Future"? It's brilliant! He out Guderians Guderian, before Guderian ! ???? [:D] Guderian, IIRC , had read De Gaulle. The political power in Germany heard Guderian; the political power in France didn't heard De Gaulle........ Oh , I think both the French political and military leaders HEARD De Gualle (one would have to be deaf not to) , but it didn't suit their situation , and De Gaulle did a poor job selling his position , while doing a great job alienating it. I've heard that De Gualle was the most "despised colonel" in the French army when he taught at staff colledge. Even peole sympathetic to his views were alienated by his words. Only after the start of the war, when he was appointed to a political position (while still serving) did people start to listen to him. [8\|]

AW1Steve -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 1:22:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gladiatt quote: ORIGINAL: AW1Steve quote: ORIGINAL: gladiatt quote: ORIGINAL: AW1Steve There are a lot of alternative histories, and I like most of them (as I do SciFi). I particularly like Conroy. Turtledove is surley the most prolific. [:)] I should write a novell where Jeanne d'Arc (Joan of Arc) isn't burn't by french clergy according to the will of the english power of XVe century !! That would be a nice alternative history [:D] Would it? If you don't burn "the maid of Orleans", will France ever truly unify? Or will it continue as half French/half English? [&:] More seriously: historians are trying to guess if it wasn't just something to make unity quicker than expected, but Joan was not the trigger of unity: she was the effect of the feeling rising in the country. At least, it's what's historian tell about this. Of course, French historian can not admit that we wouldn't have won in the long run.... In some respects , I think that they are right. But every explosion needs a trigger. For example WW1 probably would have still happened if Arch Duke Ferdianand had taken a different road that day, but the outcome may have been different. That's stuff for Harry Turtledove to contemplate. [:D]

Terminus -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 1:25:55 PM)
Nearly time to go home tithe...[:)]

gladiatt -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 1:26:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AW1Steve Oh , I think both the French political and military leaders HEARD De Gualle (one would have to be deaf not to) , but it didn't suit their situation , and De Gaulle did a poor job selling his position , while doing a great job alienating it. I've heard that De Gualle was the most "despised colonel" in the French army when he taught at staff colledge. Even peole sympathetic to his views were alienated by his words. Only after the start of the war, when he was appointed to a political position (while still serving) did people start to listen to him. [8\|] i've got nothing more to add: at first i was trying to summarize, but you know much more than i thought.... [&o]

gladiatt -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 1:29:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AW1Steve quote: ORIGINAL: gladiatt More seriously: historians are trying to guess if it wasn't just something to make unity quicker than expected, but Joan was not the trigger of unity: she was the effect of the feeling rising in the country. At least, it's what's historian tell about this. Of course, French historian can not admit that we wouldn't have won in the long run.... In some respects , I think that they are right. But every explosion needs a trigger. For example WW1 probably would have still happened if Arch Duke Ferdianand had taken a different road that day, but the outcome may have been different. That's stuff for Harry Turtledove to contemplate. [:D] What i think about alternative history: suppose Martin-Dixie and Eric-Gladiatt road cross during hundred year war....at first we look each others as the dreaded ennemy...than, take a good breathe, and go and share a drink (Martin is a silly boy, but with much humor, wich is something i like). [;)]

Dixie -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 1:33:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gladiatt quote: ORIGINAL: AW1Steve quote: ORIGINAL: gladiatt More seriously: historians are trying to guess if it wasn't just something to make unity quicker than expected, but Joan was not the trigger of unity: she was the effect of the feeling rising in the country. At least, it's what's historian tell about this. Of course, French historian can not admit that we wouldn't have won in the long run.... In some respects , I think that they are right. But every explosion needs a trigger. For example WW1 probably would have still happened if Arch Duke Ferdianand had taken a different road that day, but the outcome may have been different. That's stuff for Harry Turtledove to contemplate. [:D] What i think about alternative history: suppose Martin-Dixie and Eric-Gladiatt road cross during hundred year war....at first we look each others as the dreaded ennemy...than, take a good breathe, and go and share a drink (Martin is a silly boy, but with much humor, wich is something i like). [;)] [image]http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/French-Soldiers-monty-python-380142_800_441.jpg[/image]

Dixie -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 1:38:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AW1Steve In some respects , I think that they are right. But every explosion needs a trigger. For example WW1 probably would have still happened if Arch Duke Ferdianand had taken a different road that day, but the outcome may have been different. That's stuff for Harry Turtledove to contemplate. [:D] Oooh. Alt history, the third biggest cause of "u r retarded" posts on the 'net [:D] After Nation X was overrated and the Bismark was sunk [:'(]

Dixie -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 1:39:33 PM)
[image]http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/sheeple.png[/image] [:D]

AW1Steve -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 1:40:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gladiatt quote: ORIGINAL: AW1Steve Oh , I think both the French political and military leaders HEARD De Gualle (one would have to be deaf not to) , but it didn't suit their situation , and De Gaulle did a poor job selling his position , while doing a great job alienating it. I've heard that De Gualle was the most "despised colonel" in the French army when he taught at staff colledge. Even peole sympathetic to his views were alienated by his words. Only after the start of the war, when he was appointed to a political position (while still serving) did people start to listen to him. [8\|] i've got nothing more to add: at first i was trying to summarize, but you know much more than i thought.... [&o] Well, I've got to confess that I've always been facinated/confued by DeGualle. I'd always felt that he was a totally useless blowhard till I finally found and read his book. (It's hard as my French is pathetic, and translations of his writings can be hard to come by--and I am always dubious of translations). I now tend to feel that he was brilliant, but really should have read Dale Carnegie ("Winning Friends and Influencing People"). The Fact that he achived such high position and power in spite of having such a less then pleasant personality says a lot about him. Why is it that so many "disciples" of military strategy and doctrines manage to torpedo their own "crusades" by having lousey personalities? Arnold actually carried out many of Mitchell's plans by a warm smile and friendly personality. Moffet (till his death in Akron) did the same for the USN. Guderian did better then De Gualle in "selling" the "combined arms' and tank lead approach. And both did better in advancing armor then JFC Fuller (for the UK). Patton ,Esienhower, and Marshall all used charm to get their theories through (it was only in the field that Patton "went off his nut"). DeGualle, Fuller,Mitchell,John Towers,and Dohet all used the "foreign tourist approach" ("If they don't understand you, yell louder!") to convincing others. How would the military world have developed if the "great thinkers" had also been "great communicators"?[&:]

AW1Steve -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 1:43:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dixie quote: ORIGINAL: AW1Steve In some respects , I think that they are right. But every explosion needs a trigger. For example WW1 probably would have still happened if Arch Duke Ferdianand had taken a different road that day, but the outcome may have been different. That's stuff for Harry Turtledove to contemplate. [:D] Oooh. Alt history, the third biggest cause of "u r retarded" posts on the 'net [:D] After Nation X was overrated and the Bismark was sunk [:'(] Touche'! Time for me to scamper off before I inadvertadly manage to ignite a flame war on the Thread, and change history! Good day/evening gents! Try not to slag me too hard in my abscence! [:D]

AW1Steve -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 1:44:22 PM)
Damned! I didn't even realize that I went over 5k! Talk about not paying attention! [X(]

AW1Steve -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 1:48:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gladiatt quote: ORIGINAL: AW1Steve quote: ORIGINAL: gladiatt More seriously: historians are trying to guess if it wasn't just something to make unity quicker than expected, but Joan was not the trigger of unity: she was the effect of the feeling rising in the country. At least, it's what's historian tell about this. Of course, French historian can not admit that we wouldn't have won in the long run.... In some respects , I think that they are right. But every explosion needs a trigger. For example WW1 probably would have still happened if Arch Duke Ferdianand had taken a different road that day, but the outcome may have been different. That's stuff for Harry Turtledove to contemplate. [:D] What i think about alternative history: suppose Martin-Dixie and Eric-Gladiatt road cross during hundred year war....at first we look each others as the dreaded ennemy...than, take a good breathe, and go and share a drink (Martin is a silly boy, but with much humor, wich is something i like). [;)] Which leads me to a great moment of personal confusion---were I also there , at which side would I throw rocks? Which side of me would dominate? The Norman side? Or my Anglo side? Or would I simply kill myself? [X(][:D]

gladiatt -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 1:53:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AW1Steve quote: ORIGINAL: gladiatt quote: ORIGINAL: AW1Steve quote: ORIGINAL: gladiatt More seriously: historians are trying to guess if it wasn't just something to make unity quicker than expected, but Joan was not the trigger of unity: she was the effect of the feeling rising in the country. At least, it's what's historian tell about this. Of course, French historian can not admit that we wouldn't have won in the long run.... In some respects , I think that they are right. But every explosion needs a trigger. For example WW1 probably would have still happened if Arch Duke Ferdianand had taken a different road that day, but the outcome may have been different. That's stuff for Harry Turtledove to contemplate. [:D] What i think about alternative history: suppose Martin-Dixie and Eric-Gladiatt road cross during hundred year war....at first we look each others as the dreaded ennemy...than, take a good breathe, and go and share a drink (Martin is a silly boy, but with much humor, wich is something i like). [;)] Which leads me to a great moment of personal confusion---were I also there , at which side would I throw rocks? Which side of me would dominate? The Norman side? Or my Anglo side? Or would I simply kill myself? [X(][:D] [:-] You should have wait to know wich side would dominate: time enough for Martin and I to decide to go to drink....than you would have come along ! [;)]

Dixie -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 1:56:52 PM)
Time for some Civ IV [:)]

Apollo11 -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 2:03:11 PM)
Hi all, Oh my... I am hot here (at the forum ) for few hours and another 100 year war between England and France starts once more... [8D] Leo "Apollo11"

gladiatt -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 2:22:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Apollo11 Hi all, Oh my... I am hot here (at the forum ) for few hours and another 100 year war between England and France starts once more... [8D] Leo "Apollo11" It never really ended [sm=00000003.gif] [;)] [:D]

Apollo11 -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 2:36:25 PM)
Hi all, quote: ORIGINAL: gladiatt quote: ORIGINAL: Apollo11 Oh my... I am hot here (at the forum ) for few hours and another 100 year war between England and France starts once more... [8D] It never really ended [sm=00000003.gif] [;)] [:D] Somehow I suspeced that Eric... [:D] Leo "Apollo11"

Mynok -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 2:41:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gladiatt english part; french part; burgundy part. I would still leave in the french part.... Does Burgundy still think of themselves independently?

Nikademus -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 2:50:19 PM)
tithe [:(]

Mynok -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 2:52:49 PM)
Uh oh....been going to the doctor again? We warned you about that.

gladiatt -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 2:59:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mynok quote: ORIGINAL: gladiatt english part; french part; burgundy part. I would still leave in the french part.... Does Burgundy still think of themselves independently? Burgundy never had an national feeling. It was a state made around personnal feuds of great Dukes (the last one being Charles the t�meraire, died 1476). The state was cut between many pretenders (french, austrian, spanish), and each part entered another country. If you ask now someone living in a burgundian part, i think he won't even know that it previously was a independant country; although for the french part of it.

gladiatt -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 3:04:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Apollo11 Hi all, quote: ORIGINAL: gladiatt quote: ORIGINAL: Apollo11 Oh my... I am hot here (at the forum ) for few hours and another 100 year war between England and France starts once more... [8D] It never really ended [sm=00000003.gif] [;)] [:D] Somehow I suspected that Eric... [:D] Leo "Apollo11" i like to hate them...i'm sure the reverse is true ! [:D] When i went to Scotland, there was a B&B which was hosted by an englishmen. In the entrance of his house was a paint board of Agincourt. Whyle laughing, i said to the man "it's not very pleasant for the Frenc" and with much humor he replied "it is not intended to !". He was very kind, take good care of us, show us a little tiny road leading upper of Eilan Donan Castle, and gave us an adress in Sky island. And i surely can understand someone can be proud of a victory. In fact, it's all about a childish game of "wich one is the stronger" but if i feel it's silly, i stop it quick because what i really matter about is the man i'm talking to. [:)]

Mynok -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 3:06:36 PM)
It's easy to be proud of a victory when you aren't standing on the field looking at the carnage.

gladiatt -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 3:10:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mynok It's easy to be proud of a victory when you aren't standing on the field looking at the carnage. I absolutely agree with you. When i was a child, i dreamed of being the hero of a great battle. Growing older, i just feel i would be scared, sick, trying to hide. And if not on the battlefield, thinking that killing someone else because it's uniform or language is different is probably not enough for a reason.

Nikademus -> RE: THE THREAD!!! (7/15/2009 3:17:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mynok Uh oh....been going to the doctor again? We warned you about that. [:o]

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