RE: THE THREAD!! (Full Version)

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bradfordkay -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 7:36:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider


quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

Looking forward to an exciting day in the Swiss Alps for Le Tour.  [8D]


An absolutely beautiful attack by Alberto there on the final climb. My hopes are that Craig and Bob will finally shut up about "strife within Team Astana"...

Tuesday's stage over the St Bernards will be interesting, but I believe that - barring disaster - the tour will be decided in two more stages: the Annecy TT and the climb up Mont Ventoux. Alberto, Lance and Andreas need only mark the other contenders on the other stages.


Short of a mishap in the TT ...I think Le Tour was decided yesterday on the climb to Verbier. I do not think anyone within the Peleton can hang with Alberto on an uphill finish.


That TT around Lake Annecy is long and flat enough that either Wiggins or Armstrong could take a couple of minutes from Contador, but the next day is the climb up Mont Ventoux. No time for any of them to recover, so that climb will be won by a pure climber, I believe. It's going to be interesting.




bradfordkay -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 8:10:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stuman




You bike riders please explain something to me. How exactly does the team concept in a road race like the current Tour work ? Why is it wrong for a team member to try to beat another team member ? I knew there were teams , but I didn't understand that this meant some members were picked to win ? I am a bit unclear on this point.


Forgive me for a very long post here, but following is a general description of the sport I love so much... (it and college football, go figure!).

Most teams only have one rider who is good enough to win a Grand Tour (France, Italy, Spain host the Grand Tours). These races are three weeks long with a variety of daily races - some flat, some mountainous, a few are Time Trials where each rider goes alone against the clock (no drafting allowed). In order to be a contender for the overall victory in a Grand Tour, a rider has to be strong both in Time Trialing and Climbing. However, if he doesn't have teammates to draft behind in the flat stages he can wear himself out trying to hang on.

Most teams have a leader (the guy they hope can win it all), one or two lieutenants (guys who are nearly good enough to win it all, but not quite), a couple of extra climbers, a sprinter and a few general helpers (domestiques).

The lieutenants and climbers will pace your leader up the mountains, trying to set a hard enough pace to wear out the opponents. The domestiques will get in front on the flat sections and create a draft for the leaders to use, so they can save their energy for the climbs and time trials. The domestiques will also drop back to the team car to collect water and food and bring it back up to the leaders. They also will provide a draft "lead out" for the team's sprinter when the stage has a flat finish which results in a "bunch sprint" (exciting but dangerous).

Since the majority of the team riders will not gain any glory, the prizes are shared among all riders. Thus, team discipline is fairly important. If you have a lone wolf who fails to meet his responsibilities to the team, that means that there is one less guy helping shoulder the load and thus everyone else has to work harder, risking the chance that your leader will wear out before the crucial moments.

Armstrong's team started with four guys who are actually capable of winning it all: Lance (7 time winner of the Tour de France), Alberto Contador (1 TdF, 1 Giro d'Italia, 1 Vuelta a Espana), Andreas Kloden (2d in the TdF once) and Levi Leipheimer (4th in the TdF once, 2 Tour of California wins).

Alberto Contador is the best pure climber in the sport right now (and the best we've probably seen in a decade or so) who has vastly improved his time trialing capability in order to become the most likely winner. Lance is probably still better in the TT (we'll see on Friday), but doesn't quite have the climbing strength anymore - at least not enough to keep up with a rocketship like Alberto.

However, should Alberto falter (get a stomach virus, have a crash, or just plain suck in Friday's time trial) Lance is certainly capable of winning it all. Should both falter, Andreas Kloden might be good enough to step into the win, though there are a couple of riders on other teams probably better than he is. Levi would also have been a good possibility, but he had to quit after crashing and breaking his wrist the other day.

The thing with the Grand Tours is that in three weeks of racing it is very hard not to have a bad day. If it's bad enough, even the greatest rider can lose the whole race in one day. If you work too hard one day, you might not be able to recover enough to keep up the next day. It is tough to ride hard for 21 out of 23 days (two rest days in the three weeks) and be able to stay on top of your game the whole time. Everything has to fall into place - diet, training, patience, everything.

Anyway, the US media played up the "team friction" a lot more than it actually existed. Contador went into the start of the race considered the favorite, but since Armstrong is nearly as strong it was decided to wait and see which rider would prove stronger as the race progressed. Alberto beat Lance in the first time trial and up the first mountaintop finish. Lance took time out of Alberto on a flat stage where the pack was broken up by strong crosswinds - Lance happened to be in the very front group that gained about 40 seconds.

You'll note that the US media never blamed Lance for pushing the pace to take advantage of that, but they screamed bloody murder when Alberto attacked on that first mountain. One was a guy taking advantage of bad luck, the other was a guy who just proved stronger... hmmm...

Again, my apologies for such a long explanation...




Apollo11 -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 8:50:44 AM)

Hi all,

Good morning gentlemen!


Leo "Apollo11"




sprior -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 9:02:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfie1

AHH! The joys of being self employed, I think I'll take tomorrow off and get blasted tonight[:D]

AHH! The joys of being retired. I think I'll take the rest of my life off and get blasted every night.


Ah, the joys of being employed. I think I might buy CC:TLD today.




sprior -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 9:02:50 AM)

And a good morning to you all.




sprior -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 9:03:21 AM)

Another flame war in the works?




Wolfie1 -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 11:08:03 AM)

Bradford, extremely interesting explanation of the mechanics of cycle racing, thanks.




Terminus -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 11:10:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Another flame war in the works?


Well, what can we expect from somebody with that kind of forum name?[8|]




sprior -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 11:22:04 AM)

I just poured some fuel on. I think it's my turn.




stuman -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 11:40:42 AM)

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain. You should consider a new job covering the sport for a news organisation . [:)]




stuman -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 11:41:53 AM)

And good morning to all.




rtrapasso -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 12:08:40 PM)

Some time ago, some one was asking for pics of moon site landings... i had given one pic, but this more recent one is much more detailed, i think:

[image]local://upfiles/7543/0A0BD228D5F84DF9A35613601DDAC721.jpg[/image]




USSAmerica -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 12:20:09 PM)

Good morning - Tithe. [&o][&o][&o]




sprior -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 12:24:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Some time ago, some one was asking for pics of moon site landings... i had given one pic, but this more recent one is much more detailed, i think:

[image]local://upfiles/7543/0A0BD228D5F84DF9A35613601DDAC721.jpg[/image]


How long did it take NASA to photoshop that?[:D]




rtrapasso -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 12:33:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior


quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Some time ago, some one was asking for pics of moon site landings... i had given one pic, but this more recent one is much more detailed, i think:

[image]local://upfiles/7543/0A0BD228D5F84DF9A35613601DDAC721.jpg[/image]


How long did it take NASA to photoshop that?[:D]

[sm=innocent0009.gif]




AW1Steve -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 1:21:11 PM)

Tithe...




AW1Steve -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 1:22:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

The Navy leaders pushed them right off a cliff. [:(]

Yeah, but since they were lighter than air, shouldn't they just have floated off?? [&:] [:'(]


Sure , if they hadn't drained all the helium 1st! [:D]




pasternakski -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 2:39:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

I just poured some fuel on. I think it's my turn.

Yah. What has twenty feet and no brain? The General Discussion forum.

When those dimwits get one of their obviously-intended-to-infuriate-people things going, I realize what the Nazi goose step is for. A couple of laps back and forth to town doing that, and it calms me right down (of course, the poor farmers watching me have a different reaction, I'm sure).

I remember way back in the early AH General days, Alan R. Moon wrote a piece about his addiction to war and wargaming. At the end, he sneaks upstairs, breaks out his carefully-hidden Austrian corporal's uniform and puts it on. About that time, his girlfriend walks in. He figures, "Uh-oh."

Instead, she gives him a wild-eyed, admiring look, drops to her knees, spreads her arms wide in adulation and exclaims, "MEIN KAMPF!"

These hockey pucks may be even funnier. "Und mit der schitzen und die bitzchen, mit ein mehr Panzer, wir konquestingk der Welt wollen hat. Erst, wir zenden in die Pantzers, und dann wir zenden in die Depantzers..."

I always liked pidgin German.




pasternakski -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 2:44:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stuman

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain. You should consider a new job covering the sport for a news organisation . [:)]

Yah, Brad's got a nice way about huim, doesn't he? Maybe we should appoint him Minister of Msinformation.

No, all seriousness aside, Brad, that's a nice job. Clears up a lot for me I never understood about the Tour.

Now, if you could just explain de Tour Eifel to me, I'd be all set.




sprior -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 2:52:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

Now, if you could just explain de Tour Eifel to me, I'd be all set.


That's easy - thr first to get from the top to the bottom wins. It helps if you're still alive to collect the prize.




pasternakski -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 2:57:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior


quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

Now, if you could just explain de Tour Eifel to me, I'd be all set.


That's easy - thr first to get from the top to the bottom wins. It helps if you're still alive to collect the prize.

The only person to survive falling off the top of the Eifel Tower was a blonde. She got lost on the way down.




Mynok -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 3:08:58 PM)


This page in history

Science

* 1 February — Belgian astronomer Jean Meeus (b. 1928) asserts that the orbits of all the planets of the Solar system were within the same 90° arc of the solar system on this date. The next time it is thought this will occur is on 6 May 2492.

Deaths

* Emperor Yōzei, emperor of Japan
* Yunmen Wenyan, Chinese Zen Buddhist monk




Terminus -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 3:36:47 PM)

Tithe...




bradfordkay -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 4:37:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski


quote:

ORIGINAL: stuman

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain. You should consider a new job covering the sport for a news organisation . [:)]

Yah, Brad's got a nice way about huim, doesn't he? Maybe we should appoint him Minister of Msinformation.

No, all seriousness aside, Brad, that's a nice job. Clears up a lot for me I never understood about the Tour.

Now, if you could just explain de Tour Eifel to me, I'd be all set.



LOL... in 1991 I went over to Europe for a two month bike trip to include watching the TdF. The morning of my third day over there, in Oxford, I was talking to an Australian couple and told them that my ultimate goal was to go to France to see Le Tour. The girl's response was "Why? It's just a tower?" [:D]





bobogoboom -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 5:18:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Another flame war in the works?

[8D]where?




BrucePowers -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 5:26:59 PM)


Tithe[:)]




Terminus -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 5:28:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom


quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Another flame war in the works?

[8D]where?


Asshat Corner, aka the General Discussion forum.




BrucePowers -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 5:34:32 PM)

I stay away from there




bobogoboom -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 5:51:50 PM)

well so i give ike about a hour before he brings the flame war in here.




USSAmerica -> RE: THE THREAD!! (7/21/2009 5:52:04 PM)

Goofing off at work - Tithe. [&o]

I think I'll mosey on over to Asshat Corner.  [:D]




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