RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (Full Version)

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition



Message

vonSchnitter -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/29/2008 9:21:51 PM)

Sorry Chaps,

but where do we stand with regard to CV clashes say till the end of 42 ?

IJN CVEs and torps: In Stock and CHS those little buggers are good for a lot of mischief, especially if land based units are available to replace used up or no longer needed air components. (Zeros, Val, Kate).
My best Score: Hermes and 3 R-Class BBs off the Andamans. Gamey ? Yo. Long lances on CVE are. PBM by the way.
Offering me a real opportunity to go after India ...

Even some CVLs could not launch the Kates with torps. If I read the signals correctly, even the last issue is not addressed ? Hm...

Now to my pet peave: single carrier TFs - no solution yet ?
To spell things out slowly: Multiple allied carrier TFs in one hex will pool their cap very effectively. As effective as a 6 CV KB.
The IJN has a coordination "bonus" - even AC from multiple TFs will very likely go after one TF (with priorities CV, BB and so on) - just one Allied CV/TF hit.

On the other hand: The lack of USN coordination of air strikes plus the combined effect of CV cap in one hex will have the following results:

IJ land based Air is most likely decimated by the CAP. (on a wake raid).
IJN will hit the CAP - and if bombers penetrate - one CV hit.

On the other hand, USN strikes - if penetration is achieved - will hurt a number of IJN CVs. Regardless of IJN CV deployment.

And no Terminus - referring to a previous conversation - my intention is not to be diplomatic.
If the AE team has no workable solution - tweaking the code or the oob etc - for the issues, it is not good.
HR suggestions or similar may work. Up to you.

I for one would think, that the PBM players have a different mind set from the AI only chaps - no idea where the $$ are - but a clear statement of services offered may help ?

Anyway.

Cheers









Q-Ball -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/29/2008 10:07:05 PM)

I wonder if Elf would have posted this AAR if he knew the Pandora's box he was opening. I'm sure AE will be great, I'm not expecting it to be perfect, but I appreciate the hard work of the AE team. And I for one am starting to get fatigue from all the posting about more changes and what's missing. Anyone else feel that way?

I like the passion out there, and alot of the posts might be right historically. There are alot of great comments. But in the end it's a GAME, and as long as it's a good clean competitive fun game, I can live with imperfections. Pacific War is kind of a big topic to get absolutely perfect, no?

So, I hope the AI is looking good, and we get a moddable toy pretty soon. But not before the kinks are worked out.



Canoerebel -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/29/2008 10:12:23 PM)

I second Q-Ball's motion.  WitP is fabulous and AE will be even better.  Waypoints alone will make a huge difference.



pompack -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/29/2008 10:29:46 PM)

third

When we get to threats I just use the green button, it helps enormously [:D]



witpqs -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/29/2008 10:33:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vonSchnitter

Even some CVLs could not launch the Kates with torps. If I read the signals correctly, even the last issue is not addressed ? Hm...


The way I read things written in this thread it likely will be addressed, or will (at worst) be trivial to address in the editor by setting the torpedo sorties to 0 (zero) for those particular carriers.


quote:


The IJN has a coordination "bonus" - even AC from multiple TFs will very likely go after one TF (with priorities CV, BB and so on) - just one Allied CV/TF hit.


In the battle AAR'd in this thread both USN CV's were hit and hit hard even though they were in separate TF's.


quote:


Multiple allied carrier TFs in one hex will pool their cap very effectively. As effective as a 6 CV KB.


This point very well might be made moot by the great reduction in lethality of air to air combat.

At any rate, totally eliminating the issue (as you seem to be suggesting) is complicated by the fact that CAPs were able to be vectored to assist outside their own TF, and by the fact that the hex size is being reduced to 40 miles in AE (from 60 miles in WITP).



Kull -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/30/2008 12:36:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vonSchnitter

And no Terminus - referring to a previous conversation - my intention is not to be diplomatic.


I would implore the AE team members to refrain from answering any questions posed by this individual. All his posts are demanding and full of incivilities. It wouldn't take a great deal of effort on his part to rephrase his concerns, but he seems quite pleased by his rudeness, and tries to explain it away as a "language issue" (a ruse which becomes more and more obvious as his post count grows).

Feeding trolls is never good policy, and especially so in this case, as he's poisoning an otherwise wonderful thread.



Terminus -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/30/2008 12:48:10 AM)

Don't worry.



RevRick -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/30/2008 1:57:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack

third

When we get to threats I just use the green button, it helps enormously [:D]


Agreed. The Green Button solution works very well, notably when I get in the mood to light into the recipient like a wild cat with its tail on fire. Talk about a pompous ass!!!



pompack -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/30/2008 2:31:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick


quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack

third

When we get to threats I just use the green button, it helps enormously [:D]


Agreed. The Green Button solution works very well, notably when I get in the mood to light into the recipient like a wild cat with its tail on fire. Talk about a pompous ass!!!



Actually my usual sequence is to write some juvenile response, read it over and then cancel the whole thing and hit the green button instead [:D]



MkXIV -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/30/2008 2:47:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Belotes' "TITANS OF THE SEAS" reports some of the smaller Jap CVE's carrying those bipe torpedo bombers and using torps..Played havoc against merchant ships in the Indiana ocean, IIRC..


The Indiana Ocean? Is that anywhere near Evansville?[:D]



witpqs -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/30/2008 3:44:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MkXIV


quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Belotes' "TITANS OF THE SEAS" reports some of the smaller Jap CVE's carrying those bipe torpedo bombers and using torps..Played havoc against merchant ships in the Indiana ocean, IIRC..


The Indiana Ocean? Is that anywhere near Evansville?[:D]


Now I know why I couldn't find it in the history books. Bob had me fooled! [:D]



Tanaka -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/30/2008 4:53:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The IJN escort carriers were used as aircraft ferries and convoy escorts. The closest anyone of them ever came to a combat zone was when the Taiyo ferried aircraft to the Solomons.


Hi Terminus,

Could you name the carriers here you are specifically referring to? I can find lots of instances of combat zones involving the little carriers...

Battle of the Coral Sea: Shoho:, she joined Carrier Division 4 under the command of Captain Izawa Ishinosuke on 30 November 1941. Her aircraft complement consisted of 16 Mitsubishi A6M "Zero" fighters and 14 Aichi D3A "Val" dive bombers. In April 1942 she was assigned to Operation MO, the invasion of Port Moresby in New Guinea, sailing with the cruisers Aoba, Kinugasa, Furutaka, and Kako of Cruiser Division 6 under the command of Rear Admiral Aritomo Gotō. After covering the landings on Tulagi on 3 May 1942 she entered the Coral Sea. After covering the landings on Tulagi on 3 May 1942 she entered the Coral Sea. In the battle of the Coral Sea on 7 May 1942 she was attacked at 07:55 by fifty-three scout-bombers, twenty-two torpedo planes and eighteen fighters from USS Lexington and USS Yorktown--a force whose intended target had been the two Japanese fleet carriers. Hit by seven torpedoes and thirteen bombs, she foundered quickly, sinking at 08:35 with the loss of 631 men. Captain Izawa and 202 men were rescued by the destroyer Sazanami. Shōhō was the first Japanese aircraft carrier to be sunk in the Pacific War.

Aleutian Islands Campaign: On June 3, 1942, Japanese bombers attacked Dutch Harbor on Unalaska Island using Kate (Nakajima B5N) bombers from the carriers Junyô and Ryûjô.

Battle of Santa Cruz: The Japanese Combined Fleet was also seeking to draw Allied naval forces into what was hoped to be a decisive battle. Two fleet carriers, Hiyo and Junyo , plus one light carrier, Zuiho, arrived at the main Japanese naval base at Truk from Japan in early October and joined Shokaku and Zuikaku. With five carriers fully staffed with air groups, plus their numerous battleships, cruisers, and destroyers, the Japanese Combined Fleet, directed by Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto Isoroku Yamamoto, was confident that they could make-up for their defeat at the Battle of Midway.

Those are just a few...

EDIT: Ah I see now that you are only referring to the CVE's...



jwilkerson -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/30/2008 4:57:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MkXIV


quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Belotes' "TITANS OF THE SEAS" reports some of the smaller Jap CVE's carrying those bipe torpedo bombers and using torps..Played havoc against merchant ships in the Indiana ocean, IIRC..


The Indiana Ocean? Is that anywhere near Evansville?[:D]


Maybe those CVE were playing bagpipes in Indiana!
[:D]

Anywho ... The Ryujo certinaly played some havoc in the Bay of Bengal in April 1942 .. this is one reason I as focusing on her as a candidate for torp usage.



jwilkerson -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/30/2008 5:06:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The IJN escort carriers were used as aircraft ferries and convoy escorts. The closest anyone of them ever came to a combat zone was when the Taiyo ferried aircraft to the Solomons.


Hi Terminus,

Could you name the carriers here you are specifically referring to? Do you count Junyo and Ryujo?


I don't think the Japanese were as hung up about classifications as the USN. From what I can see in the IJN a carrier was a carrier from a classification perspective. But for the carriers called CVE in the game Taiyo, Chuyo, Unyo, Kaiyo etc. the only combat usage I've seen related to ASW protection for convoy's. I've seen zero evidence of use as "Baby-Butai" contributors, as we normally use them in the game.

What we or the game call CVL, are a different story and this particular game calls Hiyo and Junyo CV ... even though other games call them CVL. But we know that all the ships called CVL or (small)CV in the game were used in anti-surface-ship combat operations if they could have. Ryujo, Hiyo, Junyo, Zuiho, Shoho, Chiyoda, Chitose, Ryuho. Not saying all these could support torpedo operations, that is still under review, but we know at least the first three had torpedos aboard at some points.




Tanaka -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/30/2008 5:26:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The IJN escort carriers were used as aircraft ferries and convoy escorts. The closest anyone of them ever came to a combat zone was when the Taiyo ferried aircraft to the Solomons.


Hi Terminus,

Could you name the carriers here you are specifically referring to? Do you count Junyo and Ryujo?


I don't think the Japanese were as hung up about classifications as the USN. From what I can see in the IJN a carrier was a carrier from a classification perspective. But for the carriers called CVE in the game Taiyo, Chuyo, Unyo, Kaiyo etc. the only combat usage I've seen related to ASW protection for convoy's. I've seen zero evidence of use as "Baby-Butai" contributors, as we normally use them in the game.

What we or the game call CVL, are a different story and this particular game calls Hiyo and Junyo CV ... even though other games call them CVL. But we know that all the ships called CVL or (small)CV in the game were used in anti-surface-ship combat operations if they could have. Ryujo, Hiyo, Junyo, Zuiho, Shoho, Chiyoda, Chitose, Ryuho. Not saying all these could support torpedo operations, that is still under review, but we know at least the first three had torpedos aboard at some points.




Ah then if we are just talking about the CVE's you listed then that makes more sense... [:)]



m10bob -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/30/2008 12:13:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I wonder if Elf would have posted this AAR if he knew the Pandora's box he was opening. I'm sure AE will be great, I'm not expecting it to be perfect, but I appreciate the hard work of the AE team. And I for one am starting to get fatigue from all the posting about more changes and what's missing. Anyone else feel that way?

I like the passion out there, and alot of the posts might be right historically. There are alot of great comments. But in the end it's a GAME, and as long as it's a good clean competitive fun game, I can live with imperfections. Pacific War is kind of a big topic to get absolutely perfect, no?

So, I hope the AI is looking good, and we get a moddable toy pretty soon. But not before the kinks are worked out.




Such eloquence must be recognized.



m10bob -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/30/2008 12:16:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MkXIV


quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Belotes' "TITANS OF THE SEAS" reports some of the smaller Jap CVE's carrying those bipe torpedo bombers and using torps..Played havoc against merchant ships in the Indiana ocean, IIRC..


The Indiana Ocean? Is that anywhere near Evansville?[:D]


Why....of COURSE!!!!!!!! (Just an ocean with catfish!)[:D]



witpqs -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/30/2008 4:40:22 PM)

Folks,

We all owe Bob an apology for the ribbing:




[image]local://upfiles/14248/BB6CE2CCD7474C27ADC09A23BEE160CA.jpg[/image]



m10bob -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/30/2008 6:38:08 PM)

Awwww...now that is just plain wrong![:D]



Flying Tiger -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/30/2008 6:51:30 PM)

It must be true!! It's on the NET. Therefore... it is true. Right???

Just like it was the 'Moops' who invaded Spain!!



Terminus -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/30/2008 6:57:07 PM)

You forgot to add the "a" to the box in your task bar, so only B+ for the effort...[:D]



m10bob -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/30/2008 7:04:08 PM)

Being called to task because I was betrayed by spellchecker..(playin' hard here for the sympathy vote...............)[:'(]



witpqs -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/30/2008 7:14:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

You forgot to add the "a" to the box in your task bar, so only B+ for the effort...[:D]


You must be mistaken. Look again. [8D]



undercovergeek -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (9/30/2008 8:12:29 PM)

lol i went back to look for it until i saw the edited by line at the bottom!

swift editing skills there



mc3744 -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (10/3/2008 3:59:37 PM)

I'm an "old" player of WitP (some of you might remember me) and I've been away form the forum (not from WitP) for a while, due to RL getting in the way [;)]

I just want to say that I can't wait for AE to be out!! And that - since I think that WitP is still the BEST war game out there - AE can only be super-BEST.

Any adjustment you make will be welcome and I'm sure that it will have been thought over at least a hundred times by many of you. Hence I have no doubt whatsoever that AE WILL BE a great game.

Thank you [:)]



anarchyintheuk -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (10/3/2008 6:01:43 PM)

Nice to see you back mc3744. Maybe you can send a search party out for Hoepner.



mc3744 -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (10/3/2008 9:58:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Maybe you can send a search party out for Hoepner.


[:D][:D]
He has been seen briefly a few months ago on the Italian forum then went MIA again.



Sardaukar -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (10/3/2008 11:24:49 PM)

Cut the banter and group hugs, guys...time to ask The Elf for another AAR update !! 



1275psi -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (10/4/2008 12:04:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mc3744


quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Maybe you can send a search party out for Hoepner.


[:D][:D]
He has been seen briefly a few months ago on the Italian forum then went MIA again.



well there's a couple of his opponents on this forum who say he's not welcome back[:@][:@][:@] -the deserter



Terminus -> RE: 6 May 42: Business as Usual (10/4/2008 12:05:56 AM)

This particular AAR is finished. The scenario is ultra short, remember?



Page: <<   < prev  8 9 [10] 11 12   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI
1.066406