RE: Turns 57-69 (Full Version)

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sPzAbt653 -> RE: Turns 57-69 (11/17/2009 10:22:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

But wouldn't it be good to simulate the losses of the unprepared Wehrmacht for a winter war?


It might. We haven't done it that way yet because the pestilence doesn't effect everything, whereas the shock values do (including supply).



Silvanski -> RE: Turns 57-69 (11/17/2009 3:23:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

But wouldn't it be good to simulate the losses of the unprepared Wehrmacht for a winter war?


It might. We haven't done it that way yet because the pestilence doesn't effect everything, whereas the shock values do (including supply).

Pestilence may be unfair to the Finnish units... they are used to harsh winters



BigDuke66 -> RE: Turns 57-69 (11/17/2009 3:44:12 PM)

But shock hits them too or not?



larryfulkerson -> RE: Turns 57-69 (11/17/2009 11:02:04 PM)

My understanding is that shock effects all ground units. There is a separate shock value for the air units that can be changed by events or scenario designer. We're playtesting to see if the shock values are accurate, for one thing, I guess.



TPOO -> RE: Turns 57-69 (11/18/2009 2:32:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Silvanski


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

But wouldn't it be good to simulate the losses of the unprepared Wehrmacht for a winter war?


It might. We haven't done it that way yet because the pestilence doesn't effect everything, whereas the shock values do (including supply).

Pestilence may be unfair to the Finnish units... they are used to harsh winters

Also, the Finns would get hit the worst on Pestilence since they are probably sitting in the worst terrain on the map.



Karri -> RE: Turns 57-69 (11/18/2009 7:22:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Silvanski


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

But wouldn't it be good to simulate the losses of the unprepared Wehrmacht for a winter war?


It might. We haven't done it that way yet because the pestilence doesn't effect everything, whereas the shock values do (including supply).

Pestilence may be unfair to the Finnish units... they are used to harsh winters


Nor did they have the supply issues.



cesteman -> RE: Turns 57-69 (11/18/2009 7:00:50 PM)

Supply would be another matter. I think a long drawn out war or campaign would cause them to suffer down the road.



larryfulkerson -> RE: Turns 57-69 (11/21/2009 5:15:35 PM)

Hey you guys: I found two listings for 'Rifle Squads' in the list of Soviet equipment. So I'm wondering what's going on. Not that it's a problem just strange. See what I mean in the picture below.
The one underlined in green on the Soviet side is what I'm talking about



[image]local://upfiles/16287/5E9AD6A12B4146E6B1ADA4A667A9D6CB.gif[/image]



TPOO -> RE: Turns 57-69 (11/21/2009 7:48:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Hey you guys: I found two listings for 'Rifle Squads' in the list of Soviet equipment. So I'm wondering what's going on. Not that it's a problem just strange. See what I mean in the picture below.
The one underlined in green on the Soviet side is what I'm talking about



[image]local://upfiles/16287/5E9AD6A12B4146E6B1ADA4A667A9D6CB.gif[/image]

Larry, there is a flaw in the game engine which affects the reconstruction order of units. Units at the top of the OOB keep getting priority for reconstruction over units at the bottom of the OOB. Hence it is not necessarily a first destroyed first in line for reconstruction. Since there are around 400 Soviet formations, rifle divisions at the bottom of the OOB were not reconstructing. We divided the OOB in half and assigned one equipment slot of rifle squads to the top half of the OOB and the other to the bottom half. It seems to fix the problem some what but still not perfect. Ralph has been made aware of the problem and has fixed it for the next patch.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Turns 70-82 (11/24/2009 4:09:52 PM)

Feb - Apr 1, 1942. Not even close to getting behind Moscow. Now I'm into the mud and I'll have to wait til it's over before I can get started again. The areas to the north and south seem fairly secure, so for the past 2 turns I've been trying to get the Panzer Divisions out of the line and moving them closer to Moscow.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/F494B44039344AD1AB6ECCE3F665A0C4.gif[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Front Lines (11/24/2009 4:14:01 PM)

Here are some front line shots, from south to north. I'm happy to leave the Crimea contained, because I had the idea that it would be easier to get Rostov if I didn't get tied up going for Sevastopol.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/495088A503404EECB18BC059F0BA5FF6.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Front Lines (11/24/2009 4:23:51 PM)

Rostov is heavily defended, so I tried to squeek over the river and cut it off, but no good. Elmer was on to me, and I don't have enough units to make a real encirclement of it. So I'll have to try the frontal assault.[:(]

[image]local://upfiles/24850/599AA37AA8D74E59AA4FBDB715E3709C.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Front Lines (11/24/2009 4:30:40 PM)

Rumanians and Italians along the Donetz, with some German divisions guarding some of the crossing points.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/9BE5FFA42F9349C1B064E2C73F3BE2EE.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Front Lines (11/24/2009 4:40:41 PM)

A bunch of nice German divisions holding this stretch. It's a complete waste and if I only had 15-20 more Allied divisions, I could free these up. An alternative is to split up all the Allied divisions that are there, and spread them out so the Germans can be used elsewhere. That could invite a catastrophe, though.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/E2C12959FF114398BD376457D463080B.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Front Lines (11/24/2009 4:49:51 PM)

Hungarians hold the river, Germans hold the open area. Some of the Hungarians are stacked with the German MP units that are still around. Don't know if they would help in defense, but they make me feel better. That's the Don River on the right, it would make nice flank protection for a drive to the south. Maybe one day.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/524EDA9542FA456895AA55F72C0F9455.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Front Lines (11/24/2009 5:07:08 PM)

More Germans stretched out holding a defensive line while the rest are moved to the Moscow area. By going a little thinner here, and having two or maybe three divisions in reserve, it's possible to comb out one or two more divisions for action elsewhere.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/B8CF311A43DA4C9085595F6909A29B23.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Front Lines 4-42 (11/24/2009 5:21:02 PM)

I can't even begin to describe the foolishness that's been going on here. Several turns ago the 1st Panzer Army was moving to bypass Tula to the east on its way to the Moscow area. Turn after turn I attack and surround, and every turn Elmer counterattacks and unsurrounds his units. [:@] All the time it looks like there is a gap to the north that I might pour thru, but I can't get there [:@].

[image]local://upfiles/24850/37C4D2044D264760B904D46DDD57123C.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Front Lines 4-42 (11/24/2009 5:28:23 PM)

For the most part my guys directly in front of Moscow are in excellent shape. They will be ready when the mud ceases.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/3FA7CA268B4B425B8B5377B3AEFD5255.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Front Lines 4-42 (11/24/2009 5:37:58 PM)

This area is where the northern part of the drive on Moscow will start, first objective being the Kalinin area. 3rd Panzer Army has been operating here, and the 4th Panzer Army is now moving up to join them.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/AF460B6B95B0413AAFA081AC543604A2.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Front Lines 4-42 (11/24/2009 5:46:20 PM)

South of Lake Ilmen, it doesn't look like Elmer has much here, but I've experienced some sharp counterattacks in this area, so I've got a solid line of dug in divisions. No intention of moving any further here until the Moscow issue is decided.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/C9D7278D9F754E7589489043077EA072.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Front Lines 4-42 (11/24/2009 5:59:21 PM)

From Novograd to Kingistep. Happy where I am here, no reason to move forward to take on the Leningrad defenses. The math is easy to do, I've got 20 divisions plus a few bits, and that is not enough to hold the Volhov River line for flank protection while assaulting Leningrad.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/F0E79530B54F4FE881A5E985FAE90B83.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Front Lines 4-42 (11/24/2009 8:08:25 PM)

Good shots of your game....thank you for those.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Towards Moscow! (11/26/2009 6:03:32 PM)

4-29-42. The mud has ended so here are the front lines at the start of the great offensive, along with the general plan. Eventually the idea is to reach the red line in order to cut Moscow off from supplies and reinforcements.

Because 2nd Panzer Army was initially out in front and reached the Moscow area first, I wasn't able to get them out of the line in order to join 1st Panzer Army in the right hook. Instead, 2nd Panzer Army will be put to use in reducing the Soviet forces directly in front of Moscow. This will help in shortening the overall length of the front, allowing for more units to be moved to flank protection for the left (northern) and right (southern) hooks. 1st Pz Army is still a very strong formation though, with 5 panzer divisions, 2 motorized divisions, and all the SS units. There are also three motorized divisions moving up from the Rostov area.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/F8B49534D3B54F0EB59FC86B4D38D1FE.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Towards Moscow! (11/26/2009 6:15:28 PM)

After all the planning that went into this, I got burned after one round, and the second turn of the offensive only got three rounds. [:@]. Oh well, that's part of the game so I can't complain. I guess the large number of complex attacks ruined me. So this shot is two turns different from the above shot, but only four combat rounds took place.

3rd Panzer Army made good progress at first but has run into a wall of Soviet units. I dropped the parachute division to try and get into Selicharovo but no success. 4th Panzer Army's progress looks promising, but it looks like it will have to assist 3rd PzA in breaking free, thus slowing it down. 2nd PzA has made some good gains toward reducing the units in front of Moscow. The bulk of 1st PzA was initially still in the Tula area, so it didn't get the benefit of full movement from the start line. Elmer also conterattacked violently from Koloma to the west.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/B9BD36DBCDAC4B6D917240661DACB974.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 5-6-42 (11/26/2009 9:08:34 PM)

Doesn't look like much, but I had 6 combat rounds and got a lot accomplished. The downside is that the Luftwaffe is wore out, all the artillery is out of ammo, and the forward units are close to or are in the red. Elmer continues to make some successful attacks from the Kolomna area in the south, and up north at Selicharovo.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/97AB7437C97D4719891862BFA328FEC9.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 5-10-42 (11/27/2009 8:22:27 AM)

Some resting and regrouping was in order, and as things have slowed down I took the 'Case Blau' Theater Option. Now the beginning of next turn the Axis get a shock and supply bonus. Elmer continues to counterattack hard in the south, and in the north 3rd PzA is still making no progress at Selicharovo. But Rzhev has fallen so 3rd PzA will deflect a little to the south (but still north of 4th PzA) and try to get thru there. 2nd PzA is making some progress in reducing the units in front of Moscow, and 4th PzA hasn't reached Kalinin, but also hasn't run into heavy resisitance.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/CDC48059BBDE45C6A1952B3A08CEEE5E.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 5-10-42 (11/27/2009 9:54:06 AM)

Hey you guys.....Rick and Steve have done it again.  They have been busy.  There's a newer version of D21 available.  I have no idea what changed, hint, hint, but it's brand new and hot off the presses.  You can find the newest version of D21 right here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?z5g2ewyy00j

Thanks Rick and Steve for all your hard work.  This scenario is a blast so far. 

And here I am doing an AAR using an old version.  I ask all you guys:  should I start over using the newer version or just keep going using the 13Nov2009 version?



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 5-10-42 (11/27/2009 2:09:56 PM)

I think the most recent changes were relatively minor. The 11-13 EEV Mod was the big deal, and I'm pretty sure that is the one you are playing now.

We're always making minor tinkerings and adjustments to Elmer. Whenever we do something that changes play I make sure to notify you so that you have the latest to post on your site. The EEV Mod was a big change, and because of that I'll hit on it again. Since it was decided that my original PO was too easy (as there were no real defensive considerations), we put in some defensive lines for Elmer. But how to decide when he should defend where? So I took the easy route and went by date, but as you all can imagine, that didn't work as well as it could, because who can predict where each individual player will advance and how fast? So we switched to using the EEV to monitor the rate of Axis advance, and now Elmer may fall back at an appropriate time.

I'm having a blast, too. I know it's not for everybody, but I love being in charge of four Panzer Army's ! [:D]



BigDuke66 -> RE: 5-10-42 (11/27/2009 4:59:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
... but I love being in charge of four Panzer Army's ! [:D]


Everyone would love that! [:D]


What does the Case Blue TO in detail, just shock & supply?

If so then I guess it could be used for any offensive that the player plans in 1942 and so maybe renaming it to something like "Spring Offense 1942" would be better as Case Blue might suggest that the player has to aim for Stalingrad.
Or maybe 3 TO for every big aim(Stalingrad, Moscow & Leningrad) that the player could do in 1942?
And the a little bit boost to that sector of the front, but I'm not sure how you can boost a specific sector of the front.

I remember the Case Blue scenario that was tweaked the way that the northern units run low an supply & replacement and the southern units get some bonis for their offensive. Not sure how it was done.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 5-10-42 (11/28/2009 3:15:04 AM)

quote:

What does the Case Blue TO in detail, just shock & supply?


Yes. No penalty to the Soviet side, which I considered as being wrong as I'm going thru this battle, but then I realized that I am going for Moscow in 1942, it should be difficult if not impossible.

quote:

...maybe renaming it to something like "Spring Offense 1942" would be better...


Maybe, but 'Case Blau' for 1942 and 'Citadel' for 1943 sound more historic.

quote:

...not sure how you can boost a specific sector of the front.


Can't do it, shock and supply are universal, although the use of the supply units change this slightly. The scenario you refer to where this is done uses the northern formations supply distrubution level and replacement priority to force the player away from using them. We'll not be doing that.



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