Ship classification? (Full Version)

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Bullman -> Ship classification? (10/25/2008 6:27:00 AM)

Hello

Is there a table/chart that lists all the types of ships in WitP and groups them according to the classifications used in the Base Information Screen?

eg. in the Base Information Screen it lists the number of ships that are type CV, BB, CA ,DD, AP, AO, SS, DM, PT, AG, AU and AV but these categories seem to general/generic names that describe a range of different ship types (eg. AK, PG CVE). Exactly what types of ships do these "generic" categories contain?

These categories seem kind of confusing: eg. CV in this instance refers to ALL kinds of aircraft carriers eg. CV, CVE, CVL etc, yet CV itself is a particular type of ship/aircraft carrier. Why this duality and confusion?

Bull



rockmedic109 -> RE: Ship classification? (10/25/2008 6:34:02 AM)

Not sure exactly, but it might be part of the FOW code.  It might also be lack of space, so some categories were put together.  Hasn't bothered me, so I don't worry about it.



Bullman -> RE: Ship classification? (10/25/2008 10:01:21 AM)

Not sure what you are trying to say there exactly. [&:]

Surely it has to be referenced SOMEWHERE what those naval categories shown in the Base Information Screen encompass.



Terminus -> RE: Ship classification? (10/25/2008 10:19:52 AM)

It isn't.



Bullman -> RE: Ship classification? (10/25/2008 10:26:16 AM)

OK...so if it isn't referenced in the game/manual (why this would be the case I have no idea), is it available elsewhere?

Surely it has to be documented SOMEWHERE?

eg. what kind of ship types belong to the AU category?



Terminus -> RE: Ship classification? (10/25/2008 10:34:36 AM)

No. In fact, you're the first person to ever have this problem that I can recall. Maybe you could make this reference.



Bullman -> RE: Ship classification? (10/25/2008 10:45:14 AM)

Haha...I am the first person to "have this problem"? [:'(]
So the rest of you who don't "have this problem" automatically/naturally know/knew all the ship types that are included in each category.
eg. all the ship types that belong to the AU or AP category? etc.



rogueusmc -> RE: Ship classification? (10/25/2008 12:48:31 PM)

I think he's just trying to say that you are the first person to worry about it...

I would assume they are grouped by primary role...CV group contains ships whose primary role is to carry aircraft...AP group primarily deals with personel...AK group I would guess included ships whose primary role is carrying non-human cargo...etc.



wworld7 -> RE: Ship classification? (10/25/2008 1:19:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullman

Haha...I am the first person to "have this problem"? [:'(]
So the rest of you who don't "have this problem" automatically/naturally know/knew all the ship types that are included in each category.
eg. all the ship types that belong to the AU or AP category? etc.


If you are looking for a particular TYPE of ship it has never been diffcult to find in the past. I don't expect it to be different in the future.

Using the FILTERs and the ability to SORT any ship or TYPE is simple to find.



Bullman -> RE: Ship classification? (10/25/2008 1:48:19 PM)

OK, I too undestand/would assume that the categories in the Base Information Screen are grouped by primary role. That seems logical and the intent of displaying that information there in the first place.

But what is NOT logical is expecting a player to automatically understand:

a) what the 12 acronym names actually refer to/mean ie. CV, BB, CA, DD, AP, AO, SS, DM, PT, AG, AU, AV
b) what ship types in the game actually belong to each of those acronym names

Although I am not a naval freak, I do recognize some of the more common/well known acronym names in that list, like CV, BB, CA and DD. However there is nothing there to tell me that in this case of viewing the the Base Information Screen, CV for example IS NOT just refering to the CV ship types anchored at the base. In this context it also seems to refer to any CVEs and CVLs as well. Even more confusing is the use of the acronym AU which doesn't even have a direct ship type counterpart or is even mentioned or listed anywhere in the manual/appendix. I have to "guess" what ship types this mysterious acronymn is refering to (I think I have been at least able to work out that maybe the ship type AS (submarine tender) belongs to this AU category...don't ask me even what an AS ship type is useful for [:'(]).

I find it incredible that no one has yet even acknowledged that there is something rather odd and inconsistent with this or that it is even worth discussing/clarifying. Maybe no one even LOOKs at that summary screen to get information on what ships are available at a certain base. If they don't then obviously the screen is usless/redundnat to players so why even have it in the game? [&:]



Bullman -> RE: Ship classification? (10/25/2008 1:53:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

If you are looking for a particular TYPE of ship it has never been diffcult to find in the past. I don't expect it to be different in the future.

Using the FILTERs and the ability to SORT any ship or TYPE is simple to find.


Looking for a particular type of ship is different to looking to see what types of ships are available at a base. That Base Information Screen is MEANT to give you a summary of what ships types are avalaible/anchored at that base but without a legend/listing telling me what ship types are actually included in each of those 12 categories, it is basically useless.



1EyedJacks -> RE: Ship classification? (10/25/2008 2:00:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullman

OK, I too undestand/would assume that the categories in the Base Information Screen are grouped by primary role. That seems logical and the intent of displaying that information there in the first place.

But what is NOT logical is expecting a player to automatically understand:

a) what the 12 acronym names actually refer to/mean ie. CV, BB, CA, DD, AP, AO, SS, DM, PT, AG, AU, AV
b) what ship types in the game actually belong to each of those acronym names

Although I am not a naval freak, I do recognize some of the more common/well known acronym names in that list, like CV, BB, CA and DD. However there is nothing there to tell me that in this case of viewing the the Base Information Screen, CV for example IS NOT just refering to the CV ship types anchored at the base. In this context it also seems to refer to any CVEs and CVLs as well. Even more confusing is the use of the acronym AU which doesn't even have a direct ship type counterpart or is even mentioned or listed anywhere in the manual/appendix. I have to "guess" what ship types this mysterious acronymn is refering to (I think I have been at least able to work out that maybe the ship type AS (submarine tender) belongs to this AU category...don't ask me even what an AS ship type is useful for [:'(]).

I find it incredible that no one has yet even acknowledged that there is something rather odd and inconsistent with this or that it is even worth discussing/clarifying. Maybe no one even LOOKs at that summary screen to get information on what ships are available at a certain base. If they don't then obviously the screen is usless/redundnat to players so why even have it in the game? [&:]


Is this what you are looking 4?



[image]local://upfiles/20162/8A504C8C5EC34E6CB086A403D5E450DE.jpg[/image]



1EyedJacks -> RE: Ship classification? (10/25/2008 2:00:49 PM)

and on the next page:



[image]local://upfiles/20162/90DFBE165CBF4F8297C3A4B1965AFE5C.jpg[/image]



1EyedJacks -> RE: Ship classification? (10/25/2008 2:09:44 PM)

And this is some pretty good info on Depots & Tenders:



[image]local://upfiles/20162/CC86285123174E95A58051F8B8A6314F.jpg[/image]



1EyedJacks -> RE: Ship classification? (10/25/2008 2:10:24 PM)

and on the next page:



[image]local://upfiles/20162/7E0FE020A07A4808A59B3E5887E76E14.jpg[/image]



Bullman -> RE: Ship classification? (10/25/2008 2:17:50 PM)

It SHOULD be what I am looking for but it isn't. [:'(] I recognize that as an excerpt from the manual's Appendix.  It seems to COMPREHENSIVELY list and name all the ship types in the game.  What it doesn't show or refer to (or even differentiate in the case of the term CV for example when used in the context of the Base Information Screen), is what types of ships belong to the categories listed in the Base Information Screen.

eg.  the mysterious AU category you see in the Base Information Screen is not even listed in the appendix you have shown or refered to anywhere else in the manual.  As I have mentioned before, unlike the generic CV or BB category, the AU category name doesn't even have a ship type equivalent to make you kind of gleam what kind of ship types it is even refering to.



1EyedJacks -> RE: Ship classification? (10/25/2008 2:34:13 PM)

Umm - do you mean this? Interesting tho that I don't see AK/AP in this matrix...



[image]local://upfiles/20162/047A9B7B323F4227A8A65A0BB11C4738.jpg[/image]



Bullman -> RE: Ship classification? (10/25/2008 2:52:05 PM)

I'm sorry if there has been any confusion in actually WHAT part of the game I was refering to.  Just in case, this is the screen I am talking about.
[image]http://members.iinet.net.au/~lt.bull/witp.JPG[/image]



n01487477 -> RE: Ship classification? (10/25/2008 3:19:41 PM)

You only have 1501 supplies and 31 AS at Midway .... Japanese player attack now !!!!

I get what you are saying...to list all classes would have to be rendered in + 1440 * 900 or above ... that is impossible in this game (at present). Classes and even TF are grouped together. So a Tanker TF is still a transport TF ... it is one of those things that should have been fixed sometime, but never was.



Local Yokel -> RE: Ship classification? (10/25/2008 5:55:45 PM)

Bullman's criticism is justified.  The grouping of ships on the base screen is arbitrary and in some cases counter-intuitive.  For example:

'AU' was presumably intended to be a shorthand for 'Auxiliaries', yet vessels in the PC and PG catagory are included in this grouping.

'DM' is the code for a destroyer-minelayer, yet all mine warfare craft get included within this grouping - with the exception of MLE's, which (probably correctly) get assigned to the 'AU' group.

Most confusing of all is the treatment of scout cruisers ('CS' type vessels).  On the ships screen, these get filtered in and out by selecting 'CA/CL', but in the base screen CS ships are assigned to the 'AV' group.

For me this isn't a big issue as I can usually keep a reasonably accurate picture of critical ships' whereabouts "in me 'ead".  But for those hoping to receive enlightenment from the base details screen, the ship groupings used aren't very helpful.  Have some sympathy for the interface designer, though: presenting this information unambiguously isn't straightforward.



Yamato hugger -> RE: Ship classification? (10/25/2008 6:06:33 PM)

Joe, put this on your fix list. I think theres room right between 298 and 300 [;)]



pompack -> RE: Ship classification? (10/25/2008 9:32:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullman

I'm sorry if there has been any confusion in actually WHAT part of the game I was refering to.  Just in case, this is the screen I am talking about.
[image]http://members.iinet.net.au/~lt.bull/witp.JPG[/image]


Bullman:

The confusion that I had about your question was finally cleared up with this screenshot. I think that the reason people had a problem answering your question is because few people really LOOK at that portion of the screen. I know that I have not paid any attention to it for years because the information it provides is much more easily accessible (and without the problem you question) with the base mouseover



Dili -> RE: Ship classification? (10/25/2008 10:49:12 PM)

quote:

I know that I have not paid any attention to it for years because the information it provides is much more easily accessible (and without the problem you question) with the base mouseover


Precisely.



rockmedic109 -> RE: Ship classification? (10/26/2008 12:07:05 AM)

I thought you were talking about the popup when mouseover of a port.  I never gave much regard to that screen or the mouseover, usually clicking the anchor of the port and looking.



Bullman -> RE: Ship classification? (10/26/2008 2:48:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL:  Local Yokel
Bullman's criticism is justified.  The grouping of ships on the base screen is arbitrary and in some cases counter-intuitive.  For example:
'AU' was presumably intended to be a shorthand for 'Auxiliaries', yet vessels in the PC and PG catagory are included in this grouping.
'DM' is the code for a destroyer-minelayer, yet all mine warfare craft get included within this grouping - with the exception of MLE's, which (probably correctly) get assigned to the 'AU' group.
Most confusing of all is the treatment of scout cruisers ('CS' type vessels).  On the ships screen, these get filtered in and out by selecting 'CA/CL', but in the base screen CS ships are assigned to the 'AV' group.
For me this isn't a big issue as I can usually keep a reasonably accurate picture of critical ships' whereabouts "in me 'ead".  But for those hoping to receive enlightenment from the base details screen, the ship groupings used aren't very helpful.  Have some sympathy for the interface designer, though: presenting this information unambiguously isn't straightforward.


quote:

ORIGINAL:  pompack
The confusion that I had about your question was finally cleared up with this screenshot.  I think that the reason people had a problem answering your question is because few people really LOOK at that portion of the screen.  I know that I have not paid any attention to it for years because the information it provides is much more easily accessible (and without the problem you question) with the base mouseover


At last!  Thank you!  I probably should have saved myself the frustration and anyone else any confusion by posting that screenshot earlier even though I was using the correct terminology referencing the that screen in question (the "Base Information Screen") as used in the manual. [:(]  I thought I was going crazy there for a while. [X(]  In the four or so years this game has been released and discussed here, I was SURE at least SOMEONE would of AT LEAST pointed this out. [&:]

I agree that the mouse over option is a nice way of checking what ships types are at a port/in a TF but it does not provide you with the much more complete summary of unit type information that the Base Information Screen is MEANT to show you.
eg. it shows info on both ships, aircraft and troops as well as other stuff all at once on the same screen.

So for a "lets see what is going on at this base" kind of inquiry by a player, accessing the Base Information Screen gives them (or should give them) a much better overall picture of what is going on at the base as opposed to mousing over the port icons and TF icons.

NOTE: The equivalent portion of that screen that shows the aircraft located at the base, on the otherhand, seems to work/be presented WITHOUT inconsistency and confusion in terminology used elsewhere in the game.

If anything needs "fixing" here, it would probably be just reviweing/tidying up/rationalisation/documentation of the categories/classes being used in that ship summary part of the screen I have shown to make it consistent with similar terminology used elsewhere in the game.

NOTE: The confusion/conflicts in terminology spread between THREE different screens available to the player in the game:
1. The Base Information Screen
2. The screen that comes up when you click the Naval Unit icon on the Base Information Screen
3. The mouse over information

Here is just ONE example of the confusion that is generated by this inconsistency. How is this not OBVIOUSLY confusing??? [&:]:

[image]http://members.iinet.net.au/~lt.bull/pan.JPG[/image]




Mynok -> RE: Ship classification? (10/26/2008 3:20:33 AM)


I am another that doesn't really even look much at the BI screen. I go right to the screen on the right above. On that screen, it is quite clear that AUX is "everything else". Not confusing at all...at least to me.

The BI screen is a leftover from Uncommon Valor, where many of the types in Witp don't even exist in the game.



Yamato hugger -> RE: Ship classification? (10/26/2008 3:46:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullman

Here is just ONE example of the confusion that is generated by this inconsistency. How is this not OBVIOUSLY confusing???



Odd that in 4+ years of service, no one has ever complained about this before. If this confuses you, seriously, you really shouldnt play. There is little more I can say.



wworld7 -> RE: Ship classification? (10/26/2008 4:10:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullman

Here is just ONE example of the confusion that is generated by this inconsistency. How is this not OBVIOUSLY confusing???



Odd that in 4+ years of service, no one has ever complained about this before. If this confuses you, seriously, you really shouldnt play. There is little more I can say.


That was not a very nice thing to say.

While I had no problem, not everybody has the background to easily get a handle on all of the information in the game. There is nothing wrong with the Bullman asking a question and offering his suggestion.

That is what forums are for.








Bullman -> RE: Ship classification? (10/26/2008 5:04:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
The BI screen is a leftover from Uncommon Valor, where many of the types in Witp don't even exist in the game.


Ah...well if that is the case, that it is a carry-over, then it does explain WHY the inconsistency is there in the first place. Still it is no justification for it being left like that in WitP.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger
Odd that in 4+ years of service, no one has ever complained about this before. If this confuses you, seriously, you really shouldnt play. There is little more I can say.


[X(] Well thanks for the encouragement.[:'(] Seriously, based on what you said, you probably shoouln't have said anything at all. I won't bother even trying to understand how you think it is not confusing. I am sure you mean well however.



Yamato hugger -> RE: Ship classification? (10/26/2008 8:58:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger
Odd that in 4+ years of service, no one has ever complained about this before. If this confuses you, seriously, you really shouldnt play. There is little more I can say.


[X(] Well thanks for the encouragement.[:'(] Seriously, based on what you said, you probably shoouln't have said anything at all. I won't bother even trying to understand how you think it is not confusing. I am sure you mean well however.


No, I meant exactly what I said. If this minor thing that no one to date has even cared enough to mention is suddenly this huge confusing thing for you, then this game is way beyond you. WAY beyond you. Find a new game. I sincerely mean that.



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