RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme

RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (Full Version)

All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion

Message

Phatguy -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/2/2008 12:37:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arctic Blast quote: ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker But the bad publicity will continue to haunt them.. I have no problem with companies having some kind of safeguards against theft but really, all these intrusive DRM's do is send people over to the dark side where ill-gotten products are easier to install and use.I have washed my hands of all EA games(PC,Xbox,Xbox360) and am going to either sell or toss all leftover EA products I have left. This is the epitome of horribly bad customer service. There are enough decent companies out there who wont treat me like trash or a thief. They are welcome to my money. Plus I will cheer whenever I hear how widely pirated EA games are. There was a line one poster over at the Fallout 3 forums used that I think fits the bill her... Treat your customers like customers and you'll make more money, treat your customers like pirates and you'll make more pirates. AMEN

Phatguy -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/2/2008 12:40:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen Audio CDs had some copy protection stuff, that made them incompatible with many CD players. Complaining about those was so loud, that eventually most (or all) publishers stopped using copy protections. There is hope that this will eventually happen with computer games too. What's the case with DRMs with downloaded games, like anything from Steam or Direct2Drive? I do believe Sony is still crappimg on audio cd's, but not as hard. That and the fact that they are the proud parents of Securom means I never support thier products.....

madgamer2 -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/2/2008 6:31:29 PM)
Many years ago back in the time of the apple II and the first IBM pc's there was a game and in the first paragraph of the manual was a statement that read that if you attempted to copy this program and install it on your computer dire things would happen. Well my friend shows up one day and tells me he copied the game. He starts the game and gets this blank screen and a statement comes up and says "you were warned not to copy this game program". It then preceded to trash his whole HDD OS and all. I never laughed so hard in my life. Madgamer

madgamer2 -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/2/2008 6:42:30 PM)
The worst case I can think of was a friend who bought a game from the publisher's web site and when he installed it the damn disk had a very nasty virus that trashed his system so bad that he had to buy a new computer. When he called the company they offered to replace the game if he would send them the infected disk. He bought a new system and turned the infected disk over to his brother who was a lawyer and eventually got a check from the game company which paid for the cost of his old system. I do not remember the game title but the company went bankrupt the following year. Poetic justice? Madgamer

JamesM -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/3/2008 9:02:42 PM)
Starforce caused me so much trouble that I had to reformat my system to get rid of it!

pmelheck1 -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/5/2008 1:11:42 AM)
I remember a game from a LONG time ago (before HD were a common item) that used a virus for copy protection. It would infect any disk that was inserted other than the game disk. This was before the advent of Anti-virus software so it couldn't be cleaned as you couldn't insert any kind of tool disk without infecting it.

JudgeDredd -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/5/2008 7:32:39 AM)
Ten Most Annoying DRM Methods

Greybriar -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/6/2008 8:53:29 AM)
It looks like Electronic Arts is being sued due to its use of SecuROM. Four class action lawsuits!

Phatguy -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/6/2008 2:49:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greybriar It looks like Electronic Arts is being sued due to its use of SecuROM. Four class action lawsuits! This brings a nice warmth to my heart......

JudgeDredd -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/6/2008 3:09:07 PM)
Well, whilst I don't like this "sue everyone for everything" society we are becoming...there isa place for lawyers, and this is one of them. DRM, mostly, is nasty and can prohibit the purchaser from an enjoyable experience. And when there's a chance, it shouldn't be taken. Seems to me if Matrix keeps it's method it will probably be one of the very few games publishers who actually develop specifically for the PC...everyone else will disappear.

HansBolter -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/6/2008 3:39:10 PM)
I realize I won't be endearing myself to the Matrix guys with this post, but I have always taken a somewhat dim and skeptical view of the claim "piracy is costing us business". The simple reality is that the people who pirate would never have bought the item in the first place if they couldn't have gotten it for free so there is no lost income. In fact what the company is actually getting is free advertising. Please don't get the mistaken impression that I am condoning stealing, I am merely presenting an extreme devil's advocate viewpoint for consideration.

ilovestrategy -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/6/2008 4:02:15 PM)
Hans, I've always wondered, who is the German in your avatar? if you've had to answer this question a million times in the past, I apologize.

HansBolter -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/6/2008 4:17:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy Hans, I've always wondered, who is the German in your avatar? if you've had to answer this question a million times in the past, I apologize. I'm happy to provide an answer, but you're probably gonna kick yourself after I do! He is none other than Hans Bolter, Johannes Bolter actually, one of the top tank commanders in history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Bolter http://www.alanhamby.com/aces.shtml

jc4751 -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/6/2008 4:25:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter I realize I won't be endearing myself to the Matrix guys with this post, but I have always taken a somewhat dim and skeptical view of the claim "piracy is costing us business". The simple reality is that the people who pirate would never have bought the item in the first place if they couldn't have gotten it for free so there is no lost income. In fact what the company is actually getting is free advertising. Please don't get the mistaken impression that I am condoning stealing, I am merely presenting an extreme devil's advocate viewpoint for consideration. We had a long discussion on this subject in a computer ethics class I took. One upshot was that publishers often vastly overstated their losses to piracy...in some case, this was done to diguise other failings in their business (poor software, bad advertising, etc). Much easier to blame "piracy" than it is to blame themselves, like the record companies don't want to admit that their cookie-cutter pop music isn't selling as well as it did because it's terrible. I doubt that's the case with Matrix...small publisher, niche market, quality products, dedicated customers. Stardock's idea of not putting any copy protection schema on their software seems to be working out okay for them so far. OOH, Matrix's protection scheme really isn't odious. I just keep a backup of the binary with the keycode written down in case I need to clear some space out and reinstall in the future.

JudgeDredd -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/6/2008 4:27:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter I realize I won't be endearing myself to the Matrix guys with this post, but I have always taken a somewhat dim and skeptical view of the claim "piracy is costing us business". me too.... quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter The simple reality is that the people who pirate would never have bought the item in the first place if they couldn't have gotten it for free so there is no lost income. Although I would disagree with this. Whilst that is probably largley true, I bet there are plenty of people who use downloads for "demo" purposes and if they don't like it, they don't buy it. That means a lost sale. The fact that without downloads they would have bought it and disliked it means it was a sale...regardless of the fact that they didn't like it. However, the real issue is this...they do not stop people pirating software...they simply make life for the real purchaser worse. Further to that there is a discussion (of sorts) going on at SimHQ about Starforce. A company making a helicopter sim, which I was very much looking forward to, has decided to package it with the dreaded Starforce, saying that all their beta testers did not have any problems or report any issues. This decision was taken against the flow of a poll, run by the developers/publishers which asked if people would buy the game if Starforce was used and more than half suggested they would not...and they STILL went and installed Starforce with the game. Turns out it's already been cracked (Starforce the uncrackable) and is floating about on Russian torrents. Now they are thinking about online activation for the Western version as well as Starforce! It's a PR disaster for them. I didn't buy their last game because it came with Starforce and I told them why I didn't buy it so they new WHY they had lost a sale. Now they've decided to alienate me and many more. Unbelieveable...and all in the name of something that does not work! Not only that, but Starforce gives Ring 0 access to your computer system...something Windows and Microsoft were trying to prevent. Ring 0 is sub-user level...something viruses try to get to as it give free access to the system. Nasty piece of work. And as Hans says...all in the name of preventing sales which really wouldn't have been lost anyhoo! On top of this, this is a high fidelity simulation. People who want this are willing to pay because they are the people who understand the state of the sim community...it's going down fast! Madness I tell you...madness.

HansBolter -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/6/2008 4:35:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jc4751 quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter I realize I won't be endearing myself to the Matrix guys with this post, but I have always taken a somewhat dim and skeptical view of the claim "piracy is costing us business". The simple reality is that the people who pirate would never have bought the item in the first place if they couldn't have gotten it for free so there is no lost income. In fact what the company is actually getting is free advertising. Please don't get the mistaken impression that I am condoning stealing, I am merely presenting an extreme devil's advocate viewpoint for consideration. We had a long discussion on this subject in a computer ethics class I took. One upshot was that publishers often vastly overstated their losses to piracy...in some case, this was done to diguise other failings in their business (poor software, bad advertising, etc). Much easier to blame "piracy" than it is to blame themselves, like the record companies don't want to admit that their cookie-cutter pop music isn't selling as well as it did because it's terrible. I doubt that's the case with Matrix...small publisher, niche market, quality products, dedicated customers. Stardock's idea of not putting any copy protection schema on their software seems to be working out okay for them so far. OOH, Matrix's protection scheme really isn't odious. I just keep a backup of the binary with the keycode written down in case I need to clear some space out and reinstall in the future. Yes, I agree. Another important aspect I see with the overtstated claims of lost income is that they undermine their own position and argument by starting off with such a dishonest claim in the first place.

Perturabo -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/6/2008 6:50:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jc4751 One upshot was that publishers often vastly overstated their losses to piracy...in some case, this was done to diguise other failings in their business (poor software, bad advertising, etc). Or not selling products through local publishers with prices adjusted to local economy. Eastern Europe (for example Poland) used to be famous for very high piracy. Prices of new games were around 165 Polish Gold Pieces, while a minimal monthly income was about 500 Polish Gold Pieces (IIRC most of people earned about 600-800 PGP back then). I remember that I was one of the very few people in Poland that could afford buying new game then. These were great times... And to think that now I can't even afford to buy a new music CD... How the mighty are fallen... Amusingly, I saw one developer fold up despite that he wasn't pirated. The most amusing thing was how after that people have written that they liked demo of his game, but didn't have money to buy it at the moment and things like that. Entertainment industry is brutal.

Jeffrey H. -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/6/2008 7:37:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter quote: ORIGINAL: jc4751 quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter I realize I won't be endearing myself to the Matrix guys with this post, but I have always taken a somewhat dim and skeptical view of the claim "piracy is costing us business". The simple reality is that the people who pirate would never have bought the item in the first place if they couldn't have gotten it for free so there is no lost income. In fact what the company is actually getting is free advertising. Please don't get the mistaken impression that I am condoning stealing, I am merely presenting an extreme devil's advocate viewpoint for consideration. We had a long discussion on this subject in a computer ethics class I took. One upshot was that publishers often vastly overstated their losses to piracy...in some case, this was done to diguise other failings in their business (poor software, bad advertising, etc). Much easier to blame "piracy" than it is to blame themselves, like the record companies don't want to admit that their cookie-cutter pop music isn't selling as well as it did because it's terrible. I doubt that's the case with Matrix...small publisher, niche market, quality products, dedicated customers. Stardock's idea of not putting any copy protection schema on their software seems to be working out okay for them so far. OOH, Matrix's protection scheme really isn't odious. I just keep a backup of the binary with the keycode written down in case I need to clear some space out and reinstall in the future. Yes, I agree. Another important aspect I see with the overtstated claims of lost income is that they undermine their own position and argument by starting off with such a dishonest claim in the first place. I think you guys are missing the point of the overstated loss claims, those are attempts to justify the tax write offs they claim for lost revenues due to theft !

Perturabo -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/6/2008 8:44:22 PM)
Such thing exists?

SireChaos -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/7/2008 12:38:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Perturabo Such thing exists? Losses are losses. IIRC this is one of the things covers under "extraordinary depreciation".

Perturabo -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/7/2008 12:43:09 PM)
So, basically the whole "losses from piracy" thing is a form of a tax scam?

Phatguy -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/7/2008 2:31:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Perturabo So, basically the whole "losses from piracy" thing is a form of a tax scam? Not completely because those are real losses, but it is a tool companies use for that little extra "oompf" during tax time.

Jeffrey H. -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/7/2008 7:33:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Perturabo So, basically the whole "losses from piracy" thing is a form of a tax scam? Only to the extent that they can get away with......it's a complex subject in general. But the more the perception exists that pirating is rampant then the more they can claim as a loss due to pirating. For instance, when I was working as a grocery clerk I was in charge of frozen foods. When I began running that department I was called into the store managers office and he told me I needed to add some losses. I told him I didn't have any. He said "yes you do, we always do, you just don't see it". In a way he was right, people would just toss things in the trash without telling anyone. But he was wrong about the extent of it, because the amount he wanted to show as a loss simply wasn't being lost. I finally gave up and talked to the guy who had previously run the department, and he told me what to do and I did it. Kind of like that.

Perturabo -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/7/2008 10:43:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H. quote: ORIGINAL: Perturabo So, basically the whole "losses from piracy" thing is a form of a tax scam? Only to the extent that they can get away with......it's a complex subject in general. But the more the perception exists that pirating is rampant then the more they can claim as a loss due to pirating. Well, I think that the more important thing is to manipulate the language to create an illusion that they have a "loss" due to pirating. I always heard how they are talking in magazines about "losses" from pirating and I wondered on what kind of drugs they are on. So, returning to the times when I was a rich self-righterous bastard... I remember how most of other people got their comps and bought only pirates. I used to tell them about how they are evil and how buying a pirated game is like stealing a pair of shoes[:D]. I remember arguments about how when one can afford a comp, one can afford games too. The funny thing was that they basically bought a low-end comp and then paid loan rates for it for two years[:D]. So, all their mythical money that according to the game publishers should be available for buying games, was being paid for a computer that will be ungameworthy before it gets paid back. Another thing - pirates usually download lots of stuff which makes the pirated game=lost sale myth even more unreal. Most of pirates I known had 10+ GB of downloaded music on their hard drives - that's hundreds of albums - that much more that they could be afford to buy in tens of years. I suspect that a similar situation was with games. Actually, courts in Poland stopped using prison or other stuff against pirates - they simply tell them to pay for everything they downloaded and they are screwed up for life. quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H. For instance, when I was working as a grocery clerk I was in charge of frozen foods. When I began running that department I was called into the store managers office and he told me I needed to add some losses. I told him I didn't have any. He said "yes you do, we always do, you just don't see it". In a way he was right, people would just toss things in the trash without telling anyone. But he was wrong about the extent of it, because the amount he wanted to show as a loss simply wasn't being lost. I finally gave up and talked to the guy who had previously run the department, and he told me what to do and I did it. Kind of like that. Wow. People are weird. *** Speaking of piracy. One thing that pisses me off is that in my country informatic lessons/schools teach on expensive commercial software even when free open source equivalent is available. For example I'm in a two year informatics school and for some reason I'm being taught Photoshop which is so expensive that very few people in my country can afford it. It pisses me off because I won't know anything about it because I don't have it at home to repeat the things I was taught on lessons. And final exams are done in written form, so it's quite possible that I will fail them. Another thing that the teacher basically told us that we should download it from torrents. I wonder why they don't they simply teach us GIMP... Is it not enough for our ministry of education? Same in another school that I'm doing - they are teaching us Corel Draw. The same advice from teacher - download it. As if they couldn't find some other program...

Zakhal -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/7/2008 11:24:45 PM)
Piracy has become very popular nowadays atleast here. Infact I dont know anyone anymore who actually buys games - they all download them from places like piratebay or othervice. Piratebay makes millions each year from adds thx to the traffic it gets. It makes me feel a bit weird to buy these games alone but luckily I have managed to cheat a bit by buying them taxfree / used - I dont pay more than 15-20 euros for any game now (few CEs excluded). Even then it feels almost shameful at times to tell people that I actually buy games - they are often suprised when I tell them that. When my friends visit they complain that I still use originals and am forced to switch dvds between games. If Id use pirated versions I wouldnt have to do that. Also I often hear about new games first from my friends who d/l the warez version free from internet - often weeks before play.com or amazon has even mailed me the game I preordered. Buying games is a lonely hobby..[8\|]somtimes I feel like Im the last honest player in a communist world quote: The main idea in communism is-- "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs". What that means is, every citizen works however much they can honestly work, and they get paid according to how much money they need in order to live. This means that the system works on honesty- the govenrment expects you to be honest on how much you can really work, and they pay you according to how much money you need. Everybody knows pirating is wrong (allthough lately Ive seen many argue that its good) but only the honest people bother to pay for the games. The system is corrupt.

Zakhal -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/7/2008 11:39:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jc4751 Stardock's idea of not putting any copy protection schema on their software seems to be working out okay for them so far. They changed their minds - last I heard they are developing their own DRM. I hope they are not planning anything that forces you to swap DVDs even though all the gamedata is allready on hd - I hate that stuff.

Perturabo -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/8/2008 8:06:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zakhal Piracy has become very popular nowadays atleast here. Infact I dont know anyone anymore who actually buys games - they all download them from places like piratebay or othervice. Piratebay makes millions each year from adds thx to the traffic it gets. It makes me feel a bit weird to buy these games alone but luckily I have managed to cheat a bit by buying them taxfree / used - I dont pay more than 15-20 euros for any game now (few CEs excluded). Even then it feels almost shameful at times to tell people that I actually buy games - they are often suprised when I tell them that. That's just sad[:(]. Anyway, are games affordable where you live? quote: ORIGINAL: Zakhal When my friends visit they complain that I still use originals and am forced to switch dvds between games. If Id use pirated versions I wouldnt have to do that. You have to switch DVDs between games? Just because you pay for them? That's funny[:D]. Sorry, but it's your fault. quote: ORIGINAL: Zakhal Buying games is a lonely hobby..[8\|]somtimes I feel like Im the last honest player in a communist world. Hah. If it was a communist world, everyone would download as much as they need and buy as much as they can.

Greybriar -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/8/2008 9:09:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zakhal quote: ORIGINAL: jc4751 Stardock's idea of not putting any copy protection schema on their software seems to be working out okay for them so far. They changed their minds - last I heard they are developing their own DRM. I hope they are not planning anything that forces you to swap DVDs even though all the gamedata is allready on hd - I hate that stuff. You can read about Stardock's Copyright Security Solution in Edge Magazine's article.

Zakhal -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/8/2008 1:35:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Perturabo That's just sad[:(]. Anyway, are games affordable where you live? New PC games in local stores cost 40-50 euros (34€ from play.com shipping included), console games are 10-20€ more and average wage is like 3000€/month so its affordable. Most of my friends are in secure high paying jobs (up to 5-6k euros) but that doesnt change anything. Its simply faster and easier to d/l games from piratebay/DC++ hubs than to actually buy them. And they do of course save some money in it. Som 3-4 years ago one of my friends paid one euro (it was in v.special sales) for xbox, modded a harddrive into it and pirated like every game there was. He has always been proud that he could get away paying so little for it. In som levels I guess he is right.

Perturabo -> RE: The Worst Copy Protection Scheme (11/8/2008 2:23:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zakhal quote: ORIGINAL: Perturabo That's just sad[:(]. Anyway, are games affordable where you live? New PC games in local stores cost 40-50 euros (34€ from play.com shipping included), console games are 10-20€ more and average wage is like 3000€/month so its affordable. Most of my friends are in secure high paying jobs (up to 5-6k euros) but that doesnt change anything. Its simply faster and easier to d/l games from piratebay/DC++ hubs than to actually buy them. And they do of course save some money in it. Well, their mentality is completely incomprehensible to me. I would even say... completely... alien. And I have a nice quote about aliens and their ways: quote: Yes it is true what you may have heard whispering amongst the catacombs betwixt the night and nether-night! Why not say it out loud for all to hear. Let the fools doubt and sneer, it matters not. Be proud of your humanity and keep it unsullied and blessed. This is as my Master told it to me and now I tell it to thee. There are a billion names of damnation! A billion kinds of things that slither and slime and defile the land and sea and wind. Each thing is a kind of sin spawned by man's evil. And that man is very sinful there are many of these damned things and their power is great. As the purpose of all things in nature is to increase so it is with the damned. They would we joined them and so they seek to overcome us. In alien forms they assault us. In sleep they come to spread doubt and fear among us. They would corrupt our hearts and see us damned too. Trust them not nor suffer them to live. For each alien destroyed is a soul freed from eternal bondage. Each mortal alien life extinguished is a human soul raised to glory. Thus our eternal destiny is written in the blood of the alien. With sword and spear destroy the alien. With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars. With tooth and fist and hammer blows, with axe and shell and poison-bombs, with virus-charge and thermal mines! Kill them! Kill them! Kill them all! As my Master told it to me I now tell it to thee that thou shalt tell others in thy turn. Also, it's quite disgusting, that people with so low morality are paid so much money. Also, I have a dreadful suspicion that most of developers, most of publishers are the same. If these aliens are a majority then, there's no reason to think that they aren't a majority in that business too. Anyway, I talked with people in school today, and they talked about maturity exams - they said that they all cheated and most of people in their classes cheated. Really, it's disgusting. Actually, I think that humanity is disgusting. The humanity, the life itself isn't ethical in it's nature. It's completely alien. Life is a blasphemy against the perfect harmony of the universe. A cesspool of suffering and corruption. Therefore all life needs to be destroyed... Everything, every living thing on Earth needs to be burned, cleansed by atomic fire... Death... Death... Death... Death is Purity. quote: ORIGINAL: Zakhal In som levels I guess he is right. In what levels?

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.0625