Evacuating LBA from PI: How? (Full Version)

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Rhizy -> Evacuating LBA from PI: How? (1/21/2009 7:33:06 AM)

OK, this is probably a really dumb newbie question ... anyway ... how do I go about moving/evacuating my level bombers from Philippines bases to Australia (Darwin)?

This is only my first turn but I figure these bases will be overrun really quickly so I want to shift them to OZ. I've tried the move base option but will not let me shift them. Do I need to transport them by ship? I see a lot of discussion in strategy threads here about moving/evacuating LBA but I just cannot work out how to do this?I'm probably just overlooking something very straightforward in the orders/interface?

Thanks




Sauvequipeut -> RE: Evacuating LBA from PI: How? (1/21/2009 7:38:15 AM)

The air units in the PI start out assigned to a restricted command. Before you can fly them out you'll need to spend PP's to change their HQ - Southwest Pacific is best if you're planning on sending them to Australia.



Raver508 -> RE: Evacuating LBA from PI: How? (1/21/2009 7:58:15 AM)

But do consider keeping them there.  Sometimes you can do quite a bit of damage to enemy transports, and even bomb their newly acquired oil in the region.  And PP's are in short supply at this stage (IIRC), so you might be better off trying to get some base forces out instead. 



Rhizy -> RE: Evacuating LBA from PI: How? (1/21/2009 8:16:06 AM)

Thanks, so that explains why I also could not load up some troops (7th US Div) in I think San Fran on transports - even though I have the required AP capacity. So in these strat threads I'm reading where many advise pulling as much out of PI as possible do they mean mainly just the troops and ships? Or am I just trying to do this a little too early in the game (i.e basically 8 December)?



Rhizy -> RE: Evacuating LBA from PI: How? (1/21/2009 8:18:27 AM)

Thanks Raver508 How do i get the base forces out - via ships and subs? Just load em and ship em out to Oz? Anyway would the B17s have the range to fly from PI to Darwin or would I need to take them to a few other airfields to refuel etc?




Raver508 -> RE: Evacuating LBA from PI: How? (1/21/2009 8:20:47 AM)

Yes, they'll be assigned to the west coast commant I reakon.  I think you're probably doing it at the right time in the game for the PI, but you'll probably have to be quite selective as to what you evacuate and what you leave behind.  You also run a real risk in making a dash for it as those Japanese Betties and Nells are hell!



Raver508 -> RE: Evacuating LBA from PI: How? (1/21/2009 8:22:50 AM)

Yes load em on your ships and subs.  I was just talking to one opponent who says he sometimes loads a cadre of a base force onto a sub, evacuates it and lets it rebuild at its new base.  IIRC the B17s cant rebase direct to Darwin, you'll probably have to make another stop first, but I could be wrong... try it and see. 



Sauvequipeut -> RE: Evacuating LBA from PI: How? (1/21/2009 8:40:42 AM)

Another option is to change the HQ to SEAC and send them off to fight in China/Burma/India.

You can quite easily pile up B-17's in Australia by using the island base chain to transfer them from the USA. Lack of base forces is what hampers Australia to begin with, not lack of aircraft. However, RAF units can't upgrade until May 1942 and good bombers are at a premium there, with plenty of spare aircraft support.

If you do decide to send them to Australia consider having them stop over in Java for a bit - they can make themselves a bit of a nuisance flying from Soerbaja against advanced Japanese airbases.



Chris21wen -> RE: Evacuating LBA from PI: How? (1/21/2009 9:14:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhizzy

Anyway would the B17s have the range to fly from PI to Darwin or would I need to take them to a few other airfields to refuel etc?




The Fortress will, nothing else. You also might wnat to consider moving you fighters as well, particlarlly the Warhawks. I've always found that the Allies lack fighters for the first year, loads of LBs.

LCU that are completly destroyed do not reappear, remnants can be rebuilt.



cantona2 -> RE: Evacuating LBA from PI: How? (1/21/2009 9:18:44 AM)

I normllay evac a couple of P-40E's to China, one to Tarakan. The B-17's go to Darwin or to Calcutta via Singapore. The rest stays and fights till they're gone.



SuluSea -> RE: Evacuating LBA from PI: How? (1/21/2009 2:02:23 PM)

Here's a list of must read threads incase you haven't seen it yet. It's a  wealth of information .

I'm a relative newcomer to this game as well but it's easy to see Austrailia is short on air support in early '42, you can use submarines to evacuate troops out to OZ and as already mentioned they will rebuild. 

If you use subs to evacuate units/or parts of them I read a tip that advised to "keep your S-boats on Sub Patrol because they have torps that work."

[:)]



ny59giants -> RE: Evacuating LBA from PI: How? (1/21/2009 2:05:24 PM)

LBA - The P-40's go to Oz by changing the command to SW Pacific command. The rest go to India/Burma/China by changing the command to SE Asia. Take your time before you send them to either place.

Evac - Many players try to split up the BF to be evac by trying to run the Gauntlet to Oz using AK/AP. If your playing against the AI, you can easily do so. Make single ship TF and load the BF on them. Set them to Full Speed. Head them for Balikpapan to refuel. Many will get killed, but you really want to get what you can there and rebuild it. If you get the whole BF, count your blessings. [:D]

Subs - I use the S-boat go after shipping. The large fleet boats go after some shipping, but sometime in Dec they start to evac troops to Oz. I use two sub TF and set them to "Sub Transport". Place them on Full Speed. Their sys damage will go up, but you can live with it.

PBY - You can use them to transport troops. Use one of the 2 squadron on Luzon to do so. You can use it to move troops further south and have your large American fleet subs move them the rest of the way. It cuts down on the turnaround time.

Hope this helps.



Rhizy -> RE: Evacuating LBA from PI: How? (1/21/2009 10:25:40 PM)

Thanks for the advice. This game is really daunting. Just looking at the units on the first turn and thinking - 'what the hell should I do with them' - run, dig in and fight it out. Should I load up fuel and supplies and move it out to OZ. Should I load troops and fuel/supplies etc from West Coast and head em for Pearl this early. And I still haven't even started thinking about what to do in China or Burma or Manila/Singapore or Dutch East Indies area. This is challenging. I guess I'll just do what I can, play around with a few ideas hit end turn and see what happens. I can see myself replaying these first few turns for awhile as I figure out the system and how it all works. But that's OK, I think this is a long-haul game and I need to just give up wanting to get or understand it all and try to figure it out as I go. LOL, much like the USA was doing in the early stage of the Pacific War so my confusion probably works well to reflect the state of command in those first few months - lol!



crsutton -> RE: Evacuating LBA from PI: How? (1/21/2009 10:26:26 PM)

And, by the way, welcome to the forum....



wwengr -> RE: Evacuating LBA from PI: How? (1/22/2009 1:13:00 AM)

OK, General philosophy here about evacuating DEI, USAFFE, and Malaya/Singapore.

Don't!  The Phillipines units and the Dutch units are low quality, have poor leaders to choose from, and the build rates on the replacement squads are low.  They spend years rebuilding after a fight, only to have to do it all over again, if they take losses in another fight.

The Dutch air units  have planes and upgrade paths that aren't that great, and a very low replacement rate on generally low quality pilots.  If you save them, they are less likley to fly missions and much more likley to suffer operational losses.  Save a select few.

The US Units are good.  regardless, by the time you get enough forces together to start your offensive against the Japanese, The problem will not be a lack of units.  You will have an "embarrasment of riches" for units.  The real problem will be having enough AP's to move the land units and enough places to put them all.

The only things really worth saving are the base forces and US Air units.  Even then, you should wait until they are seriously worn down from combat, then take out a fragment by air or sub transport shortly before the base falls.  Engineers, aviation support, and support all rebuild fairly quickly and base forces are always useful.

Make the Japanese player pay as much as you can for every piece of ground.  If you simply walk away, it accelerates his schedule and makes unmolested units available for further conquests.  Units in Malaya, Singapore, the Dutch East Indies, and the Phillipines should fight as long as they can before they dutifully surrender or die gloriously for king and country.

If you are anal about historical reality, then you wouldn't evacuate units, because it would not have happened in the past.  Me...  I'm just a gamer.  I am more concerned with playability.  I never suffer the delusions that I could have out-done Nimitz.  If I lived back then, they might have let me peel potatoes.



Big B -> RE: Evacuating LBA from PI: How? (1/22/2009 1:40:08 AM)

I am assuming you are playing stock scenario 15 or 16 - either way it doesn't really matter. What kills you in evacuating units, or as I would rather phrase it - re-deploying units, is the lack of political points it takes to change their command so you can put them on any kind of transport.

As the others have said - save the best air units, you will need them. Base Forces are always in short supply, and I usually try to get a fragment of Philippine Scouts, USA 31st Inf, and 4th Marines out - to rebuild for next year.

For the rest, save what you can to rebuild later, but most are best expended making the Japanese fight for important locations - namely resource and oil centers. You can't demolish these facilities and retreat like they did in real life - but if you tenaciously fight for them - they get damaged when the Japanese capture them (sometimes really destroyed if they are fortified and well defended). The overall effect is to make them worthless for a while - and the Japanese really need them as intact as possible.

I guess the best strategy in the game is to fight it out in most places, but save what you can for a later day.

Good luck, and welcome to the madness.
B



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