Gross Jagersdorf game (Full Version)

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lancerunolfsson -> Gross Jagersdorf game (2/2/2009 10:26:14 PM)

I just uploaded a Free Gross Jagersdorf Board game at my Hobby site.



PrinzHenrich -> RE: Gross Jagersdorf game (2/3/2009 12:44:48 PM)

Nice but uncompleted. From Russians you not included one of infantry divisions (where they should been you give only few units of cavalry)



lancerunolfsson -> RE: Gross Jagersdorf game (2/3/2009 10:44:00 PM)

Yeah Prinz I was wondering about that I went mostly off two things. The old HnM scenario which covers only the north end of the battle. And this Maphttp://syw-cwg.narod.ru/img/GeMp.JPG .

I generically divided the units in the HnM scenario by two as I wanted a larger scale. Whe I looked at the map and counted infantry units this squared with the units in the HnM scenario. But cavalrey was more. So I went with the following conclusions (admitadly posssibly or even probably wrong)

1] The map is depiciting some mid point of the battle where the Russians have sent some of their infantry south

2] Both sides had more cavalry than the HnM Scenario allowed for.

So Again rembering that My units are representing couples of battalions or Cavalry regiments x2 I Doubled  the Prussian Cav aproximately and guessed at Russian strength of many smal cavalry units depicted on the map that I li9nked to above.

As far as my map goes I would have liked to go a few hexes further south this though was a compromise with printing limitation Nothing is ever just the way we want it.



MacDuff -> RE: Gross Jagersdorf game (2/4/2009 2:25:06 AM)

Forgive me for responding before PrinzHenrich, but from what you're telling us you compromised on the units by dividing the total by two and coming up with half the number of infantry and whatever number you came up with for cavalry. Wouldn't it have been better to construct a regimental order of battle similar to the old GDW 120 games?

If that didn't work or mesh with your idea of how the game should develope, you could have brigaded the regular infantry regiments (using whatever historical references available or just combined 2 regiments per brigade), and brigaded the battlelions of grenadiers (not sure about this battle, but normally I believe they formed three to four battlelions of grenadiers per brigade. PrinzHenrich, Magnus am I correct with the general grenadier brigades?).

Seriously, you should be applauded for you efforts. Many of us have thought about doing similar designs, but you have actually published a game with all the rules and graphics to go with it. Given some small redesign, your game would work very well (in my humble opinion) with miniatures where space is always at a premium.

Keep up the good work.



lancerunolfsson -> RE: Gross Jagersdorf game (2/4/2009 3:07:29 AM)

Hi MacDuff
Thanks for the encouragement. All of your points are certainly relevant.

On the OOB going with a historical break down of brigades or regiments can be better depending on two things. What you are trying to accomplish and how much work you are willing to do;^) What I was trying to accomplish was make a game inspired by The Gross Jagersdorf battle and get it done in a weeks time (while concurrently working on another game.) so that I would have a simple hex and counter game to play with my friend next time he came over. I got the gamer done learned a new application (Hex Draw) and spent about 5 hours having fun playing the game last Saturday night. Mission accomplished!

Then as long as I already had the work done and it costs me nothing I figured I'd put it up for download and spam it out in case there might be even one more guy that would enjoy the work I have already done.

Now here is one of the things that is nice about Desk Top Publishing and free sites like Google gives me. Since I left the map and counters as jpeg,s and the and the rules as a word for windows file. Anybody can easily change and tweak any part of it they want. The numbers can be changed on the counter to reflect a more historical OOB with regiments or brigades of different manpower strengths. Or just print multiple counter sheets call the units battalions and go with stacking! BTW the stronger infantry units are the grenadiers brigaded together.

Your thoughts on using the game for miniatures is intriguing I would like to hear more. If you poke around more on my site you will see that Miniatures is the main thing i do.

I really appreciate your taking the time to look at my game and comment. As I get feed back I will post some of the ideas on my site. Or if people want to put up commentary and ideas on their own sites to get full credit I will be happy to link to them.




PrinzHenrich -> RE: Gross Jagersdorf game (2/4/2009 10:19:07 AM)

The ideas of brigade not will pass exams in exemple of Gross Jagerndorf battle.[:D] 



MacDuff -> RE: Gross Jagersdorf game (2/4/2009 2:01:52 PM)

I've become so used to the battlelion level games in Horse & Musket I would find it difficult to go to regimental or brigade. I've even given the company level scenarios a try.



lancerunolfsson -> RE: Gross Jagersdorf game (2/4/2009 6:49:18 PM)

So Prinz
I was really hoping for a little more comment out of you. I had Presumed that the Prussians had done their approach march for the vicinity of Gross Jagersdorf and that the Russians had been camped around Norkitten. This is the point I want to start the game for more tactical flexibility. The map I linked to in my post above was I presumed more of a map of the Armies already in contact.

I was more concerned with units taking up the right amount of space on the battlefield. So my two battalion "units" are fairly consistent with my Apx. 250 meter Hexagons (or did i get that wrong too?).

Edit = Spelling Typos



Magnus -> RE: Gross Jagersdorf game (2/4/2009 11:46:23 PM)

I must say nice effort Lance.



lancerunolfsson -> RE: Gross Jagersdorf game (2/5/2009 1:26:18 AM)

Thanks Magnus. 



PrinzHenrich -> RE: Gross Jagersdorf game (2/5/2009 2:28:56 PM)

Hmmmm. I said what said because for ex. prussians battalions have around 800 men strenght, grenadiers around 650 men. tHAT brigad give us about 3200 men without grenadiers. In the other hand Russians have in the battle around 92 battalions of max. strenght 400 men, so the brigad give us 3x400x2=2400 less than prussians. Next in the battle most of russians units were cut out of their OdB and 3 battalions from 1 division have been fighting with 5 battalions of ex.2 division against right wing of prussians. Next problem is few grenadier coys made coverage battalions, but most of them have fighting in their mother units.  I see also you choose 250 meter per hex so the units must be stronger than battalions, but if you take for judiciousness thpose problems you understood why I'm not so pleased. I must admit that you postulate  about flexiblity of tactic is ok. I have terrain already made for this battle but I have thinking bout which part of the battle made both armies OdB. In first HNM Gross Jagerndorf was my favorite play, because of this flexible. Problem will be when human decide  to play Russians. Then prussians will be easily to beaten.



lancerunolfsson -> RE: Gross Jagersdorf game (2/5/2009 8:36:55 PM)

Prinz thanks for your reply!
I will have to digest this but what I'm getting is that even allowing for my "generic" units Prussians are probably shorted in comparison to the Russians on Infantry I am going to say at least 2 or 3 infantry units. The current Russian OOB can cover the map edge to edge. And often the area your army covers is more important (game wise) than the strength of the individual units because you always have the other guys flank. I was actually thinking of cutting the russians down. As you note in my rules I suggest Russians should lose some units for better balance which is another way of takling the problem. If I want relative troop strenth vs frontage covered to be aproximately right. Russian army should cover almost 3x more area than Prussian. This is too big of an advantage. Maybe I could make the assumption that Prussians are good enough to cover larger sector with fewer men relative to the Russians. Another way to go is make Zones of control "rigid" (no move from zone to zone) this lets Prussians cover greater areas but cuts both ways and is tactically unsatisfying.

I will think more
Thanks



PrinzHenrich -> RE: Gross Jagersdorf game (2/5/2009 9:22:39 PM)

No frontage is important from historical point of view. Russians regiments have 3 battalions at this period, so thez have 2X3 battalions gun. This unit have been fighting in forest mostly so don't matter if they have more units (they must wait for his own troops retreat or withdraw). Next Russians almost do not advance during battle, and most of them have been fighting without commander from high level commander chain. That why so few prussians can attacked and fight as equal with so many russians. There were russians battalion which   stand in one place during the battle and don't move. Of course the game you made is your own interpretation and reconstruction of the battle and only your imagine should be the bourders of scenario you making on. The most important is to give you and the players most fun and happienes from play.



lancerunolfsson -> RE: Gross Jagersdorf game (2/5/2009 11:29:34 PM)

"The most important is to give you and the players most fun and happienes from play."

Thanks, this is always the most important element for any game!



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