RE: Ship graphics (Full Version)

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Terminus -> RE: Ship graphics (5/1/2009 6:31:52 PM)

At the moment, Downfall is the only post-release scenario we're talking about. I'm doing it because I have the least skill in other post-release activities, so the people who do have those skills can do the important patching stuff.

As for Downfall, the length of the scenario will be dictated by playtesting results. The Aleutian scenario was shortened a bit after playtesting, in order to be more interesting.



Chad Harrison -> RE: Ship graphics (5/3/2009 12:36:53 AM)

Thanks for the reply Termy, and as always, the hard work by the team.

The Aleutian campaign is the first one I am playing with, so Im glad you put it together and its getting lots of testing. Its a theatre I have never had to deal with before, so I am curious to see how it plays out. I would imagine that I will not be the only person cutting their AE teeth on the Aleutian scenario.

Regardless of the length of the Downfall scenario, I think it will be a great blast to play as few games make it to that point. Late war stuff is fun [:D]



Flying Tiger -> RE: Ship graphics (5/3/2009 8:29:38 AM)

Totally agree with Chad's comment - as an AI only player none of my games get close to  1945, so all those cool end game ships and planes remain unseen. Will be great to get a chance to meddle with all that fun stuff. Good idea to whoever came up with the idea.



Skyland -> RE: Ship graphics (5/4/2009 12:25:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

The French were also sending along a few more ships. Not too much data on them (help, anyone) but they included at least one more big destroyer, a few colonial sloops, and some escorts/minecraft.




This is what i found about them :

October 3rd 1945 in Saigon :
Troops : 1000 mens (5th DIC, Colonial Inf Division)
BB : Richelieu
DD : Le Triomphant
British liners Queen Emma and Princess Beatrix
Motor boat/AM (ex customs) : Directeur général Frezouls, Directeur général Crayssac

From October 15th in Saigon :
Troops : BMEO (Far East Marine Brigade)
CL : Gloire, Suffren
Aviso : Gazelle, Annamite
DD : Le Fantasque,
DE : Sénégalais, Somali
CV : Bearn (as planes and troop transport)
Cargo/Passengers ship: Ville de Strasbourg
AMC : Quercy

From March 6th 1946 in Haiphong
Troops : 20000 mens (9th DIC, half of 2e DB (armored division), BMEO,... )
CV : Béarn (as planes and troop transport)
AMC : Barfleur
Cargo/Passengers ship : Eridan, Lieutenant de Saint Loubert Bié, ... (total 5)
Many LST, LCI, ...
CL : Emile Bertin, Tourville, Duquesne,
Aviso colonial : Savorgnan de Brazza
DD : Le Triomphant, Le Fantasque
Aviso : Chevreuil, Gazelle
DE : Algérien
Oiler : Var





JWE -> RE: Ship graphics (5/4/2009 8:33:06 PM)

And for the $64,000 question: which French Admiral demanded overall command of all Allied Naval vessels operating the South China Sea.



Don Bowen -> RE: Ship graphics (5/4/2009 9:08:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

And for the $64,000 question: which French Admiral demanded overall command of all Allied Naval vessels operating the South China Sea.


All of them?



dwesolick -> RE: Ship graphics (5/4/2009 9:12:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

And for the $64,000 question: which French Admiral demanded overall command of all Allied Naval vessels operating the South China Sea.


Bah! A Frenchman would never be so presumptuous! [8|]



Skyland -> RE: Ship graphics (5/5/2009 8:13:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

And for the $64,000 question: which French Admiral demanded overall command of all Allied Naval vessels operating the South China Sea.



Don't know. Seems strange to me. Never heard such a thing.



JWE -> RE: Ship graphics (5/5/2009 3:50:59 PM)

Lord Louie was complaining to London in Aug. 1945 about the FFL gallivanting off to Indochina instead of supporting Zipper/Tiderace, and demanding that all operations past 104 E come under FFL command.

Just wondered who that was. Don’t think D’Argenlieu had quite the rank, at the time. Could have been Muselier, but I just don’t know. Thought somebody out there might.



Kereguelen -> RE: Ship graphics (5/5/2009 4:11:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Lord Louie was complaining to London in Aug. 1945 about the FFL gallivanting off to Indochina instead of supporting Zipper/Tiderace, and demanding that all operations past 104 E come under FFL command.

Just wondered who that was. Don’t think D’Argenlieu had quite the rank, at the time. Could have been Muselier, but I just don’t know. Thought somebody out there might.



Must have been Vice-Admiral Philippe Auboyneau. Muselier was not at good terms with de Gaulle and Auboyneau was in command of French Naval Forces in the Far East (Forces navales d'Extrême-Orient) in 1945.



JWE -> RE: Ship graphics (5/5/2009 4:55:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen
Must have been Vice-Admiral Philippe Auboyneau. Muselier was not at good terms with de Gaulle and Auboyneau was in command of French Naval Forces in the Far East (Forces navales d'Extrême-Orient) in 1945.

I never thought of him. I assumed he didn’t show up till September, but that was merely when he was promoted to Vice. Starting to become clearer now. Thanks K.

Btw, in Sept. 1945, was he promoted from Contre-Amiral to Vice-Amiral, or from Vice-Amiral to Vice-Amiral d’escadre? The sources just say Vice, they don’t mention which.

I just assumed he went from Contre to Vice, but if he went from Vice to Vice d'escadre, he would certainly have had the rank to go widdling on Lord Louie's parade.



Skyland -> RE: Ship graphics (5/5/2009 5:38:26 PM)

I was promoted Vice Amiral on September 4th 45 then Vice Amiral d'Escadre in 1952 only.
Regarding Muselier, he was retired in 1945.

I agree that the main focus was Indochina, but you don't need a strong navy support for this, only small units. That is why i don't understand this demand, if it's true. May be french humour..



JWE -> RE: Ship graphics (5/5/2009 6:33:46 PM)

Thank you Skyland. Maybe it was French humor, don’t know. Lord Louie was pretty sensitive about his youth and inexperience and it would have been sooo easy to break his bones.

What I’m trying to do is develop some OOBs and AI scripting for a (very) late war scenario. Coronet/Downfall is way cool, but Zipper/Tiderace were in the works, along with several other ops, so the probability of “all” these fleets participating in Downfall was problematic.

Brits wanted Malaya, Singapore and Hong Kong. French wanted Indochine, Dutch wanted Java. Come late ’45 and into ’46, the Pacific War ain’t just about invading Japan. Am reaching into the needs, wants, and background imperatives of the participants. Should provide a more open and interesting scenario.



rjopel -> RE: Ship graphics (5/6/2009 1:04:29 AM)

A scenario starting after the conquest of Okinawa that runs through end of 46 would be cool. No A-bomb (it fizzled)



Skyland -> RE: Ship graphics (5/6/2009 3:17:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Brits wanted Malaya, Singapore and Hong Kong. French wanted Indochine, Dutch wanted Java. Come late ’45 and into ’46, the Pacific War ain’t just about invading Japan. Am reaching into the needs, wants, and background imperatives of the participants. Should provide a more open and interesting scenario.



Sounds interesting. Chinese and Russian may also want their share of the pie i assume.



Terminus -> RE: Ship graphics (5/6/2009 5:21:24 PM)

Too bad you can't actually make such a scenario with the WitP AE engine...



cdnice -> RE: Ship graphics (5/9/2009 3:17:10 AM)

This is one of the first games I have actually found Canadian ships and units in which is pretty cool for me. In the new edition will there be expanded ship lists for creating? I know Canada started sending more to the Pacific later in the war like the 6th Division, which I don't think ever got deployed but was forming. There were many ships from the Atlantic that also were being moved.



witpqs -> RE: Ship graphics (5/9/2009 3:25:08 AM)

As the guys working on it are really busy trying to push it out the door - here's my answer from their previous posts.

First, there will be lots and lots of room for you to add new ships, planes, and land units. Second, there are a lot more ships already in the default AE scenario than there are in stock WITP. They've tried to get practically all ships down to a certain size, and have some that are even smaller.

I suspect you will be pleased.



cdnice -> RE: Ship graphics (5/9/2009 3:26:28 AM)

You suspect right [&o]



Don Bowen -> RE: Ship graphics (5/9/2009 3:47:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cdnice

This is one of the first games I have actually found Canadian ships and units in which is pretty cool for me. In the new edition will there be expanded ship lists for creating? I know Canada started sending more to the Pacific later in the war like the 6th Division, which I don't think ever got deployed but was forming. There were many ships from the Atlantic that also were being moved.


Can you answer a question?

After the end of the war in the Atlantic, a deal was struck for the Royal Navy to transfer a light carrier, two modern cruisers, and a full flotilla of new "C" class destroyers to the RCN, for deployment in the Pacific.

The carrier and cruisers are obvious, but the "C" class destroyers were never transferred. Do you have any information on what ones were intended to transfer??




cdnice -> RE: Ship graphics (5/9/2009 4:52:20 AM)

British Pacific Fleet - Canadian Contributions

Cruiser- HMCS Ontario  - Minotaur Class
Cruiser- HMCS Ontario (Quebec) - Crown Colony Class

Haze Grey

AA Escort- HMCS Prince Robert - armed merchant cruiser
Destroyer- HMCS Algonquin - V Class(xHMS Valentine (R17)

These are the ships I can find listed, these one's are specifically listed on wikpedia as part of the British Pacific Fleet. I double checked the Hazegrey website but there is no further information there about which ones were transferred.

C Class Destroyer Listing



Don Bowen -> RE: Ship graphics (5/9/2009 5:11:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cdnice

British Pacific Fleet - Canadian Contributions

Cruiser- HMCS Ontario  - Minotaur Class
Cruiser- HMCS Ontario (Quebec) - Crown Colony Class

AA Escort- HMCS Prince Robert - Prince-class armed merchant cruiser
Destroyer- HMCS Algonquin - V Class(xHMS Valentine (R17)

These are the ships I can find listed, these one's are specifically listed on wikpedia as part of the British Pacific Fleet. I double checked the Hazegrey website but there is no further information there about which ones were transferred.


Thanks. We already have dug up a lot of data, and have all the MacKenzie books with their excellent detail. It's just that flotilla of DDs that was supposed to be transferred but was not once the war ended in the Pacific...




Gunner98 -> RE: Ship graphics (5/9/2009 6:18:07 AM)

Don,
You may already have this but:

At the end of WWII, the RCN took possession of two V class destroyers. Towards the end of the war, the RCN was also to receive eight new C class destroyers for use in the Pacific, but only two were delivered as the war ended. The two V class ships (ALGONQUIN and SIOUX), were very similiar to the two C class ships (CRESCENT and CRUSADER), and appeared similiar to the photo of HMCS CRUSADER, above. Originally fitted with four 4.5" guns, ALGONQUIN and CRESCENT underwent refits to become what the RN called "fast ASW frigates" where they received one 4" twin mount forward, a Limbo ASW mortar, and homing torpedos. The photo of CRUSADER above can be dated to after the Korean War by the presence of a prototype VDS (Variable Depth Sonar) on the stern. This set was later fitted permanently to CRESENT. .

Found at this site:
http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/canada/rcnships/destroy/

I think I may have some more stuff but it may be in a storage unit back in Toronto and it will be a couple years before I can get to it[:(] Will keep checking..

B



Gunner98 -> RE: Ship graphics (5/9/2009 6:27:03 AM)

A bit more detail here. I suspect that the other 6 ships in the 'Cr' class were the ones destined but not delivered to the RCN. Just a guess at this point.

http://www.uboat.net/allies/warships/class.html?ID=607

B



Gunner98 -> RE: Ship graphics (5/9/2009 10:02:56 AM)

Ok,

The link is to an online book 'Canada's Navy: The First Century. Chapter 9 discusses the evolution of the RCN at the end of the war which pitted the ambitions of the Navy against the purse stings of the Govt. Of the three options proposed, Cabinet went for the smallest; however on page 161 there is specific mention of more C class destroyers had the war with Japan continued - in addition to two CVLs.

http://books.google.de/books?id=hpDA5HxyqG4C&pg=PA124&lpg=PA124&dq=destroyers+RCN&source=bl&ots=wm5sl_BC2l&sig=PP6QBVLaj7XihmXVRulPr2-bn-4&hl=de&ei=mTIFSoexJciK_QbM0-igBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7#PPA161,M1

B



Dixie -> RE: Ship graphics (5/9/2009 10:26:05 AM)

Do we get the South African frigates that were earmarked for the East Indies Fleet as well? [;)]



Don Bowen -> RE: Ship graphics (5/9/2009 2:13:40 PM)


Gunner98

Thanks. I should have noticed the CRs. That fills in the gap.

I'd get that book if it was a little cheaper.




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