RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (Full Version)

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Yamato hugger -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/15/2009 5:39:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

"The first attack at Hong Kong goes in at 1:1 reducing the fort levels to 2."

So the Gin Drinker's Line is only considered to be a level 3 fort?



Evedently.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Was the attack on Wake's shore batteries helpful? I'm usually reluctant to use carrier air in that role, but I know land-based air isn't an option, at least not that early in the war. Is it necessary to do this in AE to prepare the way for invasion?


Wake is a long way from a repair base. Any ships severely damaged will sink. Carriers arent loitering, just pasting it as they pass.



bradfordkay -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/15/2009 5:52:05 AM)

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

"The first attack at Hong Kong goes in at 1:1 reducing the fort levels to 2."

So the Gin Drinker's Line is only considered to be a level 3 fort?



Evedently.


Don't worry, I trust that you guys at HFP have a much better idea of what it should be than I do. I haven't read extensively on that particular battle, so I was wondering how extensive that defensive line was.

I knew that it was too long a defensive line for the troops at hand, and that it was broken in the first day of fighting - but had no idea if the works were extensive or rudimentary. The British tendency to use colourful names for their military operations probably leads to a tendency to overestimate the depth of the defensive works.



Yamato hugger -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/15/2009 7:11:06 AM)

Dec 14:

Jintsu, Sendai and 4 DDs sink an AK north of Leyte.

6 DDs find and after 2 engagements sink 2 ASs and an AVD west of Manado. 1 DD has heavy fires and is headed to Davao for repairs.

Kuma and company find the gunboat Tulsa at Cebu. 5 Zeros bomb and strafe her later in the day sinking her.

SS Pickerel fires 4 fish at CVL Ryujo near Morotai and all miss. The Ryujo moved south looking for crippled Repulse and was sailing completely alone. She is breaking off and headed to join up with Zuihos TF.

33rd inf det lands at Atimonan (half way between Naga and Manila).

12 Zeros sweep Malacca and shoot down 5 of the 4 Buffs that come up [:D]

6 Zeros sweep Manila and shoot down all 3 P-40s waiting.

4 Lilys with Oscar escort bomb an AK loading at Medan for 2 hits.

12 Sonias with 25 Nates escorting meet 3 Tigers over Changsha. 3 Nates are lost damaging 3 P-40s.

7 P-40s attack Kuma group at Busuanga (my repair base near Bataan) for no effect. 5 P-35s attack later in the day for no effect. 3 more attack a DD at Legaspi for no effect.

4 Zeros bomb and strafe an AK at Dadjangas hitting with 3 bombs and causing the usual heavy damage and fires.

61 navy bombers raid Iba again hitting a P-40.

3 P-35s attack a patrol boat north of the PI. 1 Zero intercepts but too late to stop them from sinking it.

19 Zeros bomb an AK at Dumanquilas hitting it 14 times.

9 Nells attacked 2 minesweepers at Bataan hitting 1 twice.

3 Sallys lost to AA fire at Kuantan.

18 P-35s attacked CL Sendais force at Legaspi for no effect.

3 Zeros attacked an AK at Zamboanga hitting her twice. Fires and heavy damage reported.

Bloody battle for the allies considering the low odds:
Ground combat at 92,38

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 12650 troops, 104 guns, 42 vehicles, Assault Value = 421

Defending force 17541 troops, 135 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 431

Japanese max assault: 710 - adjusted assault: 450

Allied max defense: 429 - adjusted defense: 199

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
325 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 19 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 9 (0 destroyed, 6 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
7419 casualties reported
Squads: 299 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 270 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 6 destroyed, 3 disabled
Guns lost 20 (24 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 3


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
5th Armored Car Co
26th Division

Defending units:
35th Chinese Corps
83rd Chinese Corps
3rd Prov Chinese Corps
13th Group Army

The 8th Indian bde gets smacked again in central Malaya for a 10:1 from the 56th inf reg driving it back.

And another bloody 5:1-
Ground combat at 88,49

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 3744 troops, 26 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 141

Defending force 5582 troops, 59 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 176

Japanese max assault: 216 - adjusted assault: 76

Allied max defense: 157 - adjusted defense: 15

Japanese assault odds: 5 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: morale(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
187 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 13 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Units pursuing 1


Allied ground losses:
2390 casualties reported
Squads: 72 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 98 destroyed, 12 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 13 (7 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Units retreated 2



Yamato hugger -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/15/2009 4:59:35 PM)

Dec 15:

Kuma, Natori, and their 4 DDs travel to Batangas to bust up a large concentration of PTs. 2 DDs take torpedo hits and limp away heavily damaged, 3 PTs are sunk. Then the remaining force sinks 3 AKs in 2 follow up battles.

Kongo and company find and sink an AK north of Mindinao.

A sub finds one of my AKs just north of Babeldaob (Peleliu).

14 P-40s strafe the airfield at Tuguegarao in norther Luzon. 3 Zeros intercept no losses to either side.

CL Dauntless and 2 APs try sneaking into Rangoon. 41 Nells and 6 Bettys go to greet them and find 5 Buffs on CAP. Between CAP and AA fire 8 attackers are lost but 4 torpedo hits are reported on the Dauntless. 3 Sallys attacked an AP later with 2 Buffs on CAP. No hits, no losses. And in the afternoon 4 Bettys came in and 5 reported lost to CAP aircraft.

12 Zeros run a sweep over Changsha and meet 3 Tigers. 1 Zero is lost claiming 2 P-40s.

2 separate sweeps of Manila by 11 Zeros total bag 1 P-40.

1 Sally was lost at Kuantan. 1 Buff intercepted.

22 Oscars sweep Malacca in southern Malaya and shoot down the lone Buff that comes up.

Couple of ineffective attacks on the 40th inf div sitting outside Changsha by SB2s and Tigers.

B-17s hit the airstrip at Davao twice for no loss.

9 P-35s attacked a DD off Legaspi for no effect. 7 more attacked in the afternoon for same effect.

11 Bettys raided Kendari hitting the strip 18 times.

3 Bettys raided the strip at Iloilo and put 5 bombs on target.

4 P-35s attack 2 DDs at Busuanga causing no damage. They came back in the afternoon and did the same thing.

9 P-40s strafe the airfield at Naga causing no damage.

6 Bettys attack 2 Dutch CLs at Kendari scoring no hits.

4 Zeros sweep Singapore and shoot down 4 of the 7 defending Buffs.

A Nate and Sonia was lost over Changsha attacking troops. 3 Tigers on CAP.

65th inf bde begins unloading at Cayagan.

Artillery fire at Hong Kong.

26 div attacks a Chinese HQ in the mountains just south of the Russian boarder and get a 41:1 odds. The 5th armored car co is in pursuit.

Chinese artillery attacks 1st cav bde at Paotow.



Yamato hugger -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/15/2009 5:22:22 PM)

THINGS I HAVE LEARNED THUS FAR:

Sweeps seem too powerful. Nearly impossible to defend against.

Unloading lots of Amphibs at a single base is problematic because the more stuff you are trying to unload the slower everything unloads. I have the 5th and 18th unloading at Singora and the 48th and 16th at Aparri (plus various other support units at each) and the longer they are there the longer they are there lol.

Initial assault forces unload quickly, but once a base is actually captured amphib TFs unload very slowly. Would seem for maximum effect on unloading, you want to put as much as you can into that first wave.

Follow-ups are better off in transport TFs rather than amphibs but you need to be mindful of the port size of the base they will be unloading at and make sure the transports and TFs you use for those followup waves will fit in the port.

TF number is important. If your transport TF is a lower number than your escorting surface ships, they will be attacked first. Ships also unload in TF order.

Run-a-way strategy seems to be the way to go in Malaya with ground attack missions on Japanese spearheads to keep them in combat mode. This will slow their advance to a crawl giving you time to pull back and dig in. Would seem likely to use this same strategy in Burma.

Air recon both in the form of "recon" missions and naval search is very important. Things you take for granted in WitP (seeing enemy occupied airfields and ports for example) you wont get in AE without it.

I really really like the new pursuit. Makes a lot more sense than WitP.

Getting a near the action level 3 port and dumping a HQ and naval support base forces in it is critical to ship survival. This ship for example had 22 major (65 "minor") damage when she was hit by a torpedo just before the Davao landing. After 2 days in port, she is patched up enough to go back to Japan for permanent repairs. Without Davao, she wouldnt have made it home.

[image]local://upfiles/14252/DC8CD6C86DE14ECB894BC095A148C8B7.jpg[/image]



asdicus -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/15/2009 5:49:58 PM)

Thanks for your aar. Please keep it up - it is much appreciated.

Interesting that you are finding aircraft sweeps too effective. I raised a query about this with the developers as this seems to be an issue on the other aar's as well. Hopefully sweeps might be adjusted a bit before the final release of ae.

Would you be able/willing to post a map with your aar reports ? It would be nice to see the progress of the japanese as the war continues.



pad152 -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/15/2009 5:57:59 PM)

quote:

TF number is important. If your transport TF is a lower number than your escorting surface ships, they will be attacked first. Ships also unload in TF order.

I understand the TF order for unload but, not attacks, is this a bug? It seems each TF in a hex would have almost an equal chance of being attacked in an air raid. If there are warships in the same spot as transports, the pilots more offen than not would go after the warships.




Don Bowen -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/15/2009 7:26:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

THINGS I HAVE LEARNED THUS FAR:

...

TF number is important. If your transport TF is a lower number than your escorting surface ships, they will be attacked first. Ships also unload in TF order.

...



No longer true.

Previously in AE, whenever a TF found itself in a hex with one or more enemy TFs, it ran a set of calculations to determine combat. A threshold was calculated (with a healthy dose of random) and the TFs scanned in TF number order. The first TF that reached the threshold would be engaged in combat. This tended to be the first (lowest) TF when the initial TF was strong.

This has since been changed (based on Yamato Hugger's prodding, if I recall) so that all the TFs in the hex are scanned, randomly shuffled (to keep things interesting) and assigned a value. The highest value will be engaged. The randominity is set to that it is more likely that a surface combat TF in the same hex as a friendly transport TF will engage an arriving enemy combat TF - but there is a chance the enemy might slip by and get to the transports.



jwilkerson -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/15/2009 8:26:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: asdicus

Interesting that you are finding aircraft sweeps too effective. I raised a query about this with the developers as this seems to be an issue on the other aar's as well. Hopefully sweeps might be adjusted a bit before the final release of ae.



The so called "Sweep Bonus" is very much alive and well in stock - as it always has been. It is mitigated somewhat in AE, primarily due to the new reinforcing CAP model. But it is still possible to overwhelm cap, especially with multiple strikes in the same phase. So AE is a bit better than stock in this area, but still not perfect.




Dili -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/15/2009 9:26:12 PM)

quote:

Run-a-way strategy seems to be the way to go in Malaya with ground attack missions on Japanese spearheads to keep them in combat mode. This will slow their advance to a crawl giving you time to pull back and dig in. Would seem likely to use this same strategy in Burma.


Even a small attack/combat?

quote:

Air recon both in the form of "recon" missions and naval search is very important. Things you take for granted in WitP (seeing enemy occupied airfields and ports for example) you wont get in AE without it.


Very good!



Blackhorse -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/15/2009 9:46:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
This has since been changed (based on Yamato Hugger's prodding, if I recall) so that all the TFs in the hex are scanned, randomly shuffled (to keep things interesting) and assigned a value. The highest value will be engaged. The randominity is set to that it is more likely that a surface combat TF in the same hex as a friendly transport TF will engage an arriving enemy combat TF - but there is a chance the enemy might slip by and get to the transports.


War in the Pacific -- Admirals' Edition: setting new standards for randominity and truthiness.
[8D]



Yamato hugger -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/15/2009 9:53:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

War in the Pacific -- Admirals' Edition: setting new standards for randominity and truthiness.
[8D]



[:D]

Wait until we're all spelling like Brady [;)]



erstad -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/15/2009 10:21:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse


quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
This has since been changed (based on Yamato Hugger's prodding, if I recall) so that all the TFs in the hex are scanned, randomly shuffled (to keep things interesting) and assigned a value. The highest value will be engaged. The randominity is set to that it is more likely that a surface combat TF in the same hex as a friendly transport TF will engage an arriving enemy combat TF - but there is a chance the enemy might slip by and get to the transports.


War in the Pacific -- Admirals' Edition: setting new standards for randominity and truthiness.
[8D]



Hey, if it's in Wiktionary and Urban Dictionary, that's good enough for me.
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/randominity
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Randominity
Although the former does take care to define it as a neologism and google only shows about 8K hits.




Don Bowen -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/15/2009 10:39:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse


quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
This has since been changed (based on Yamato Hugger's prodding, if I recall) so that all the TFs in the hex are scanned, randomly shuffled (to keep things interesting) and assigned a value. The highest value will be engaged. The randominity is set to that it is more likely that a surface combat TF in the same hex as a friendly transport TF will engage an arriving enemy combat TF - but there is a chance the enemy might slip by and get to the transports.


War in the Pacific -- Admirals' Edition: setting new standards for randominity and truthiness.
[8D]



Hey, if it's in Wiktionary and Urban Dictionary, that's good enough for me.
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/randominity
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Randominity
Although the former does take care to define it as a neologism and google only shows about 8K hits.




Words are just putty in my hands...





TMFoss -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/15/2009 11:46:16 PM)

In AE, is it easier to withdraw units in contact. In several games, I have tried to attack an occupied city, only to realize that I do not have enough combat value to win. However, I have been unable to withdraw due to enemy attacks or bombardments, and yet the enemy does not have enough strength to eject my forces. As a result, I am stuck. Has this changed? I know that withdrawing under contact is tricky and can be costly, but it should be able to be done.



Blackhorse -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/16/2009 12:02:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Was the attack on Wake's shore batteries helpful? I'm usually reluctant to use carrier air in that role, but I know land-based air isn't an option, at least not that early in the war. Is it necessary to do this in AE to prepare the way for invasion?


So far, in my testing experience, having Kido Butai pass by Wake is most useful to deter the US carriers from interfering with the invasion. More often than not, the initial invasion TF will make it past the six 5" coastal defense guns.




jwilkerson -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/16/2009 12:26:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TMFoss

In AE, is it easier to withdraw units in contact. In several games, I have tried to attack an occupied city, only to realize that I do not have enough combat value to win. However, I have been unable to withdraw due to enemy attacks or bombardments, and yet the enemy does not have enough strength to eject my forces. As a result, I am stuck. Has this changed? I know that withdrawing under contact is tricky and can be costly, but it should be able to be done.


One big change that affects this area is the HEXSIDE control. In stock it was fairly easy to block retreats by blocking the transportation routes. Not true in AE. Now units control HEXSIDES and can withdraw (ONLY) across hexsides they control. The map visible transportation routes influence but do not determine valid retreat paths. Bottom line most testers are reporting that units are "slippery-er" on retreat in AE than they were in stock.




witpqs -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/16/2009 12:45:44 AM)

Joe, I think what he is referring to is that in WITP when an LCU is attempting to move out of a hex with an enemy present, the "miles traveled" counter gets reset to zero whenever the enemy either attacks or bombards. Obviously wrong, as an enemy attack or artillery attack will not pull an LCU back down a trail toward the attack!

Is this little ditty changed in AE?



Yamato hugger -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/16/2009 1:15:57 AM)

Dec 16:

Kuma, Natori, and their 2 remaining DDs sink 2 AKs in 3 fights off Batangas. I have been kind of rushing my turns trying to get into it as far as we can have neglected to include supply, fuel, and most important an AD in with my front line repair force, so now I am going to have to pull them back to Formosa to reload. Lesson learned.

SS Shark put 4 shells (causing 3 system damage) on an AK near Peleliu.

5 Nells dropped out of the rainclouds with 4 P-40s on CAP at Manila and put a torpedo into each of 2 minesweepers and escaped without loss. 7 Zeros follow them in on a sweep and down 1.

2 Sallys lost at Kuantan.

Several strikes against ground troops in central China to slow movement. Moving the air power in China away from Flying Tiger bases.

31 Oscars sweep Malacca and find a Buff in a thunderstorm and shoot it down.

Harassment strike by 2 SB2s with 3 Tigers escort on 3rd div outside Changsha.

3 B-17s raid Davao and find 11 Zeros on CAP. 1 bomber downed and 1 damaged. They missed the airfield.

5 P-40s strafe Naga with 6 Zeros intercepting and downing 1 P-40.

10 P-40s strafe Tuguegarao. 2 Zeros find them and down 1.

16 P-35s strafe Sendai and company causing no damage.

9 Bettys attack shipping at Rangoon. 4 Buffs intercept and down 1 bomber. No hits reported.

16 Zeros sweep Singapore and engage 12 Buffs. 2 Zeros are lost for 4 Buffs.

15 P-35s strafe a TF of AKs near Polillo in the PI doing no damage.

4 Bettys raid Kendari putting 4 hits on the airfield.

2 Bettys with 3 Zeros escort hits Iloilo for light damage.

I had a coastwatcher report 4 ships in Pakhoi harbor (Chinese coast near Hanoi) so several raids were launched by Kates and Mables doing damage to the port facilities but finding no ships there.

Artillery fire continues at Hong Kong. Attack #2 goes in tomorrow.

65th inf bde takes Cayagan against only the Cagayan USAAF Base Force. Most of the rest of the Phil forces on Mindanao have retreated inland. there are scattered forces on the NW part of the island.

As I said earlier, I have been rushing things and forgot to attack at Atimonan last turn, but remembered this turn. It falls undefended to the 33rd inf det.

Alor Star falls undefended to elements of the 5th div.

Laoag falls undefended to the Sasebo 1st SNLF.

And up near the Russian boarder, the 81st Chinese corps lobs some more shells at 1st cav bde.



Yamato hugger -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/16/2009 1:16:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Joe, I think what he is referring to is that in WITP when an LCU is attempting to move out of a hex with an enemy present, the "miles traveled" counter gets reset to zero whenever the enemy either attacks or bombards. Obviously wrong, as an enemy attack or artillery attack will not pull an LCU back down a trail toward the attack!

Is this little ditty changed in AE?


Yes. Also, units ordered to move to an adjacent hex will move directly into that hex (if possible) rather than taking the "shortest route" (meaning taking a road).



TMFoss -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/16/2009 1:40:41 AM)

Thanks, this is what I meant.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Joe, I think what he is referring to is that in WITP when an LCU is attempting to move out of a hex with an enemy present, the "miles traveled" counter gets reset to zero whenever the enemy either attacks or bombards. Obviously wrong, as an enemy attack or artillery attack will not pull an LCU back down a trail toward the attack!

Is this little ditty changed in AE?


Yes. Also, units ordered to move to an adjacent hex will move directly into that hex (if possible) rather than taking the "shortest route" (meaning taking a road).




Yamato hugger -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/16/2009 9:43:11 AM)

Dec 17: ENTERPRISE SINKS! [sm=happy0005.gif]

I-21 patrolling 400 miles due east of Pearl Harbor launches 6 fish at Enterprise. 1 hit is reported, fires break out. She shows up on sink ships report. Probably a false report, but for now the boys are celebrating.

4 DDs patrolling south of Soc Trang locate a Dutch sub and sinks her. Positive sinking as she surfaced to get her crew off before going down.

11 Zeros sweep Singapore and shoot down 5 of 6 Buffs.

32 Oscars sweep Malacca downing a Buff.

3 Bettys attack a Dutch DD at sea at Kendari for no effect. Another raid in the afternoon attacks a Dutch CL there for no effect. 14 Bettys also hit the airfield causing minor damage.

9 Zeros sweep Rangoon and shoot down 3 of 4 Buffs.

5 Zeros sweep Manila and down a P-40

Georgetown strafed by Nates for no effect.

Kingfishers attack transports closing on Atimonan hitting an AK. P-40s attack later and no hits scored.

Several small raids attacked ships in the Busuanga area. 3 Seagulls and 2 P-26s managed a bomb hit on Natori, 9 P-40Es attacked for no effect, 3 P-35s and 3 P-40Bs also attacked for no effect. 4 more P-35s attack hitting nothing as well. Natori takes 2 additional bomb hits in the afternoon.

2 raids on transports at Vigan by fighters hit nothing. 2nd tank reg unloads. the "C" regiment of the 11 PA division fires at the landing troops for no effect.

Another Sally lost at Kuantan. The squadron is moving to Bangkok.

Several harassment attacks on Chinese ground troops in central China.

A Dutch mine sub O-19 torpedoes a sub chaser west of Formosa. The other SCs in the TF hit her 11 times causing heavy damage. I suspect it either sank already or soon will.

8th tank reg advancing up the west coast of Mindanao attacks elements of the 101 PA reg driving it back at 120:1 odds.

The advance in central China continues as 13 mxd bde attacks 2 Chinese corps at 19:1 inflicting 1400 casualties for 82 of their own. 2 mxd bde attacks 1 corps at 2:1 inflicting almost 1900 losses for less than 300 of theirs.

2nd attack on Hong Kong didnt fare well. 1:2 but only took 300 losses to British 500.

More artillery near Russia.



cantona2 -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/16/2009 9:55:16 AM)

Any screenies YH?



Yamato hugger -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/16/2009 11:46:45 AM)

Playing with animations off to see if that solves some sync issues, so no, sorry [:(]



cantona2 -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/16/2009 11:49:27 AM)

Ok, ty for the reply



foliveti -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/16/2009 2:15:06 PM)

If ordering of unloading is set by TF number, is it possible to change the TF number of various TFs in a hex? Are you stuck with whatever the computer gives you on that?



Yamato hugger -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/16/2009 7:13:32 PM)

TF numbers are used in order, the first (lowest) number that isnt already being used is the one you get when you create a TF. If you want to switch 2 TFs so one is lower than the other then what you need to do is:

(for this explanation I will use 2 transport TFs numbers 54 and 123)
1) Create a new TF noting the TF number being used.

2) If its lower than the one you sneak in ahead of (say 36 for example) you just transfer all the ships from 123 into it. If you are in a base, you can assign a new TF commander if you wish (you cant do this at sea).

3) If this number is between the 2 you have now (say TF 98 for example) you move 54 into this TF, then you create another TF (this TF number will be 54 since that will be the lowest available number) and you move the ships from TF 123 into this.

4) If the new TF number is higher than the 2nd one (say 221 for example) you just move 54 into it.

In looking at this I would have to say it would be nice if a player could assign TF numbers himself when the TF is created, but this is not going to make the release cut. Maybe someday in a patch.



Yamato hugger -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/17/2009 8:09:26 AM)

Dec 18:

Landing force hits Wake. Shore guns only made 1 hit. It was on a patrol boat and sank her outright. The 144th is on the ground and the first attack only musters a 1:1.

6 PTs intercept a force of 4 AKs near Iba and sink 1 of the loaded transports.

9 Bettys found 2 AKs at Bataan and sank one. He seems to know his AKs dont have a chance if they try to run for it so it appears he is manually moving supplies from Manila to Bataan.

Dutch Martins attacked a pair of minesweepers closing on the NW coast of Borneo for no effect. 4 Blenheims attacked in the afternoon for same effect.

Lots of same old stuff, sweeps, bombing for little to no effect, harassment attacks ect. See no point in beating this old horse.

2nd mxd bde in the mountains near the Russian boarder attack 3 Chinese units driving them back and discovering a bug in the retreat logic. The Chinese retreated towards Russia rather than Chinese territory.

Elements of the 48th div capture Bayombong in the central PI undefended.

Vigan was captured by the 2nd tank reg and 1st Sasebo SNLF driving the "C" regiment of the 11 PA div back.

6th tank reg captures Victoria Point at 52:1 odds.

Airborne troopers that had captured Siquijor landed via fast transport last turn at Surigao and captured it unopposed this turn.




Yamato hugger -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/17/2009 9:31:24 AM)

Attacking the PI is a must. You know it, I know it, the guy you are playing knows it. But how to go about it? Yes, you can load up a bunch of ships and damn the torpedoes and go storming in.

I have found through trial and error (mostly error) that in order to conduct an operation effectively in AE, you have to plan well ahead. Much like the real commanders did.

Part I of this essay will be the northern PI. Mindanao will be part II. First off, this is the map (from the allied point of view). There are numerous bases through the PI, but other than Luzon, only a handful are defended. The 4 bases marked "A" on the map contain strong PI units (well, stronger than an empty base anyway). The 2 bases where the allied TFs are (Cebu and Panay) have divisions sized units that have AVs at or near 100. The other 2 bases have regiments with AVs in the low 30s. The unit at Puerto Princesa is a company sized base force and is for all intents a vacant base.

[image]local://upfiles/14252/2FC53A80655D4BF3B016A01E09A5E627.jpg[/image]

Tinas in AE cant drop on half the map. There are 3 airborne units that start the game. 1 is a parachute regiment that starts in Kagoshima and is out of range until it is moved. The other 2 are SNLFs on Formosa and from their base with Tinas as transport they can only land in these hexes, not beyond.

Other than Manila, there are only 2 level 3 ports on this map and they are labeled "B". Batangas is the name of the one on Luzon. There is a PA division there, another div in the base to the SE, and 2 divisions plus 4 regiments (and misc other support) in Manila itself. An attack here would require a major effort.

Busuanga is undefended. It can be taken by para assault in the first turn, or the 2nd turn by fast transports. It is on his path out of Subic Bay. It is perfect! Well, not quite perfect. There isnt an airbase there. So you will need an airbase close enough to provide CAP cover, or you do it with floatplanes.

The Purple boxed bases all have level 1 airfields, which is all you need for CAP. The red ones are level 2+ meaning they can be used as strike bases. The only strike bases in the PI are on Luzon, Mindanao, and 2 islands: Panay and Jolo. Jolo is undefended but out of parachute range at start. You can air transport a para to Cam Rahn Bay and drop on Jolo from there. "C" is Taytay, the closest CAP field to Busuanga.

Now in this game I made several mistakes. Well not mistakes par se, I just fell off the learning cliff [;)]. My first mistake was I looked at the above map and saw a nice clear valley all the way to Manila / Clark so I decided to land both the 48th and the 16th at Aparri foregoing everything else. Well it was such a cluster fark that the 48th never did get unloaded, so I ended up diverting it south where the 16th normally would have landed.

So lesson 1 is dont plan on more than 1 regiment per day unloading at a beach / level 1 port.

Lesson 2: I waited a day before beginning loading the 48th as I didnt want to get hit by a suicide run by the Brit DDs in Hong Kong again. Keep a CL or 2 with a handful of DDs with a react of ZERO (so they wont leave the TF they are escorting), and drive on.

Lesson 3: I took Taytay by fast transport carrying an airfield co which in and of itself is fine. But I didnt send a follow-up force with supplies. I also didnt allocate a CAP to the fast transport group and they wasted a day or 2 because of air threat (TFs will retreat from air or surface threat if they dont have enough cover force).

Lesson 4: I didnt send tankers or tenders with my Busuanga landing force and too few supplies. I had a HQ and naval support for repairs, but I had no way to reload or refuel my ships after they got there.

Grabbing a level 3 port in the area is important, it saved several of my ships. But you also need to defend it (after he hit me with PTs that first time I assigned a DD squadron there to protect it). And if you want to use it for an operations base you need to have the tenders in there as well. You need an AD to reload torps at a level 3 port (or a truckload of nav support guys - in the hundreds) and a level 3 port with no nav support can only reload 3" guns. With 50 nav support you can do 6". I had 1 base force (about 120 nav support) and a naval HQ (about 240 more). With that many nav support I could reload up to 8" guns and any torpedo EXCEPT the Long Lance. A 2nd base force would have allowed it (you need 424 nav support at a level 3 to rearm Long Lances).

Or simply put an AD in the harbor. One thing to note about tenders in AE: you need supplies on the tender for it to function.

Lesson 5: Actually I knew this already but it was confirmed this game - get eyes out there. Even a level 1 port can operate a float or patrol plane. Grab a few in key areas and get your Jake and Mavis search planes out there, but again, dont forget to bring supplies also.



Elladan -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/17/2009 2:54:24 PM)

Does lesson 1 apply to atoll assaults as well? If the answer is yes then the practical limit for invasion forces would be 1 reinforced regiment?



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