RE: June 20 flyday (Full Version)

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Nikademus -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/21/2009 3:50:45 PM)

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Nikademus -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/21/2009 3:51:13 PM)

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Nikademus -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/21/2009 3:51:44 PM)

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Nikademus -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/21/2009 3:53:05 PM)

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Nikademus -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/21/2009 3:53:46 PM)

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Nikademus -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/21/2009 3:54:09 PM)

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Nikademus -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/21/2009 3:54:38 PM)

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Nikademus -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/21/2009 3:55:05 PM)

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Nikademus -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/21/2009 3:55:33 PM)

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Nikademus -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/21/2009 3:56:22 PM)

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Nikademus -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/21/2009 3:56:53 PM)

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Nikademus -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/21/2009 3:57:18 PM)

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Nikademus -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/21/2009 3:57:43 PM)

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Nikademus -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/21/2009 3:58:20 PM)

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Nikademus -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/21/2009 3:58:53 PM)

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Nikademus -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/21/2009 3:59:18 PM)

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Nikademus -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/21/2009 3:59:49 PM)

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Nikademus -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/21/2009 4:00:37 PM)

The man on the right flew the I-16...one of only two pilots in the world certified to fly it........ the other pilot flew the P-40. I was able to ask the former a couple questions about the Rata....mainly was it as hard to fly as some authors say..

He said it wasn't so much that the plane was hard to fly....but that you had to pay attention. The reason for this he explained was that the plane has neither trim nor flaps. It all has to be done using the throttle. This gets particularily complicated when trying to crank down the landing gear.....a feat that requires no less than 42 turns. Problem here is that while the gear is cranking down....drag increases and the plane slows. He said the throttle control is located on the opposite side of the landing gear crankshaft so it's quite the trick to crank down....hold the stick, and quickly adjust the throttle to compensate for the increased drag and lowering speed. (3 items....two hands...you do the math)

Worse.....he said the plane gives virtually no warning when it's reaching it's stall speed. He said it might be possible for someone with many many hours in the plane to feel it coming....but he's yet to feel it. If that threshhold is reached, the right wing will suddenly drop.....followed quickly by the rest of the plane. No warning. He said that pilots with more hours in the plane than he have chopped their prop into the ground on landing due to this tendancy. As such he prefers to come in for a landing with a very good clip of speed to avoid the stall pitfall.

The other question i asked was about oil spill....i noticed that the ground crew immediately went to work cleaning the fuslage around the engine. I'd heard one spectator who'd seen the Rata in action before comment that the thing belches oil all over when it runs. The pilot said it did belch a little when starting up....but not all that much after that.





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Nikademus -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/21/2009 4:09:56 PM)

last parting shot. fun day....off to Boeing field for the Collins Foundation visit.



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Terminus -> RE: d-day flight (6/21/2009 4:19:47 PM)

Good photo montage, Logboy... Not two planes you expect to see flying on each others' wing.



thegreatwent -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/21/2009 4:43:56 PM)

Great photos!



Nikademus -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/22/2009 1:07:24 AM)

thx....i'm hoping to next visit when they fly the Spit and the Hurr. That would rock.




Big B -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/23/2009 12:43:46 AM)

Great thread and really nice pics! [&o]

Selfishly, I wish they could get an example of each aircraft restored to prime flying condition. Then they could all be thoroughly tested and compared - that would sure settle a great many questions about WWII aircraft performance![:D]

B



Mynok -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/23/2009 2:06:46 AM)


Hah! It would only degenerate into an argument about pilot skills. [8|]



Brady -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/23/2009 2:58:48 AM)


Awsome Picks, TY[:)]



wdolson -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/23/2009 3:19:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

Great thread and really nice pics! [&o]

Selfishly, I wish they could get an example of each aircraft restored to prime flying condition. Then they could all be thoroughly tested and compared - that would sure settle a great many questions about WWII aircraft performance![:D]

B


As Mynok said, it would denigrate into an argument about the pilots. It would also be difficult to completely restore those planes to 100% wartime condition too. Radios are smaller and lighter, you can't carry the real weapons, only simulations, and there are some maneuvers that would be done in wartime that would be too dangerous to do, especially in a 60 year old airplane.

I also remember Chuck Yeager's book and he talked about what was the best fighter. In his opinion 90% of fighter combat is the pilot and only 10% is the airplane. I'm not sure it's quite that much, but look at what the Finnish managed to do with a rag tag collection of obsolete fighters against the Russians.

It is nice that many old aircraft that have been sitting in fields (and sometimes more exotic places) for years are now getting restored to flying condition and being kept that way.

Bill




Nikademus -> RE: June 20 flyday (6/23/2009 3:35:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


As Mynok said, it would denigrate into an argument about the pilots. It would also be difficult to completely restore those planes to 100% wartime condition too. Radios are smaller and lighter, you can't carry the real weapons, only simulations, and there are some maneuvers that would be done in wartime that would be too dangerous to do, especially in a 60 year old airplane.



and if it wasn't the pilots...it would be the situations. [:D]

another problem would also be the limitations placed on these precious and expensive artifacts. You arn't going to push a rare plane to the limit risking both the pilot's life as well as the plane. The FW-190D-13, as mentioned, is fully airworthy....but they don't dare fly it because its the only one left.......heck they won't even start the engine and taxi the thing anymore!

Then there's the real life restrictions. For example, the planes shown here have a very strict circuit laid out for them as well as altitude and speed limitations.



Jaroen -> Rata sound (6/23/2009 9:32:48 AM)

I thoroughly enjoyed all pics Nik! Wished I was there!!!
I believe you won't be terribly surprised when asked to describe the sound of the "Rata" flying. Is that engine sound different from the Western radial engines?

Living in Holland I find few opportunities seeing those old machines actually flying. When I'm really lucky I might hear the sound of a Dakota visiting the local airfield. It's funny when that happens because the plane is heard before it's seen and I recognize the special sound of those old engines running. I believe I'm not the only one wondering about the sound of hundreds of those planes crossing over high (or low) in the sky. It's one of the strongest memories of the war my parents have. They were kids at the time.



mikkey -> RE: Rata sound (6/23/2009 11:05:07 AM)

excellent photos!



Nikademus -> RE: Rata sound (6/23/2009 2:19:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaroen

I thoroughly enjoyed all pics Nik! Wished I was there!!!
I believe you won't be terribly surprised when asked to describe the sound of the "Rata" flying. Is that engine sound different from the Western radial engines?

Living in Holland I find few opportunities seeing those old machines actually flying. When I'm really lucky I might hear the sound of a Dakota visiting the local airfield. It's funny when that happens because the plane is heard before it's seen and I recognize the special sound of those old engines running. I believe I'm not the only one wondering about the sound of hundreds of those planes crossing over high (or low) in the sky. It's one of the strongest memories of the war my parents have. They were kids at the time.


If you've ever heard a suped up Motorcycle of the Harley Davison type when it accelerates. (aka a "Hog")......one with big mufflers that do little to mask the sound.....thats what the Rata sounds like when the throttle is pushed forward. It totally drowns out the steady, far more modest purr of the Allison engine of the P-40. The P-40 sounds pretty much like one would expect if you've seen various war movies like "Midway" or "Tora Tora Tora"





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