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Anendrue -> MWiF Fan Site (6/9/2009 4:06:20 PM)

Current status on my request to design and host a fan site for MWiF.

So far Matrix has failed to respond to multiple requests to allow a MWiF Fan Site, Wiki, etc... I am not sure of their motivation behind ignoring requests. It could obviously be a legal or contractual issue or they might even be taking the idea I submitted to them for their own use. I simply do not know as they will not respond. What I want to offer the community is a website with the following:

1) A community based web site to find opponents graded by skill and expierance.
2) A ladder based competitive arena for players.
3) A monthly challenge scenario to see who can effect the best win.
4) Interactive RAC and Players manual. This would be indexed, hyperlinked, glossary, and cross referenced. Each hyperlink would have a note identifying other rules that may apply with hyperlinks to each of those. This requires Matrix games approval and authorization.
5) A Wiki to help teach the game to people. This may require Matrix games approval and authorization.
6) A small forum for discussion and improvement of the web site.
7) Minimal advertising to sustain the site. Advertisement Boundaries: Right column or bottom of the page only. No popup ads at all. Matrix Games and computer technology advertisements only. All ads would be from google ads so they are clean, tastefull and appropriate. Matrix ads would be designed consistent with their own web site. Links to Matrix Games own store. I even offered to only host Matrix Games ads if they so desired.

The bottom line... if you want a web site sound off and let Matrix know.



gridley -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/9/2009 4:21:53 PM)

Good luck with your site.

Fan sites are common and are usually a great place for regular gamers to get together. Gamers who get familiar with one another and can be counted on to show up on game night and play the entire game. Both of which are the most important items in long multiplayer games like WiF.

Even if you can't get approval for some of the bells and whistles you are proposing, your site will still be a great place for many of us to meet.[8D]

Please, keep us up to date.






undercovergeek -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/9/2009 4:23:36 PM)

sounds great - do you need permission - theres loads of WitP fan sites with downloadable data, mods and patches and i was never under the impression that permission was asked for or given



Neilster -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/9/2009 4:24:24 PM)

Sounds like a good idea. I'm for it. There should be a Facebook fan thingy too.

Cheers, Neilster



bo -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/9/2009 6:01:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek

sounds great - do you need permission - theres loads of WitP fan sites with downloadable data, mods and patches and i was never under the impression that permission was asked for or given

Sounds great ABJ and I agree with geek why do you have to ask just do one and we will support you I am sure.

Willy



Froonp -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/9/2009 6:53:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: abj9562
5) A Wiki to help teach the game to people. This may require Matrix games approval and authorization.

I always was interested in doing a Wiki based on WiF FE.



Cheesehead -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/9/2009 7:43:53 PM)

Sounds like a great idea. That would be a regular stop on my internet highway.



Anendrue -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/9/2009 7:59:43 PM)

Thanks for the support and positive comments. My principle reason for doing a fan site is to make the rules readily available and usable during a game which would require the OK for use of copyrighted material. However I know that a successful site will need more and would need the additional pieces I mentioned above. Most of the additional pieces exist already on either these forums, IIRC, yahoo discussion groups and many more places like Patrices and others. Therefore I want to add to the community first with the rules and wiki and thses do need the go ahead from the interested parties. Especially before I pay for managed hosting that will not have speed or bandwidth issues.

The community component is community builder which will give a facebbok type of component to the site. This I already have the rights to use on the site. But before I go any further I need to know I will not get a cease and decist letter from Matrix or ADG. Based on my communications with Steve he seems to be Ok with the site but he does not have the authority to give a go ahead. For that I need Erik Rutins or David Heath to say OK and so far both are silent. So for now it is a wait and see issue.



Jaimainsoyyo -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/9/2009 8:01:26 PM)

Great ideaĦĦĦĦĦ[8D]



SamuraiProgrmmr -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/9/2009 8:03:27 PM)

It would be a great place for finding opponents.

And having a ladder!!! 



Jagdtiger14 -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/9/2009 11:27:26 PM)

Great idea!  I hope you do it!  Maybe you could also include into a player's skill and ladder position(as well as having a player "reputation grade") based on completion of games through J/A'45.  Games not completed through J/A'45 count less, etc...
C



Anendrue -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/10/2009 12:50:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Great idea!  I hope you do it!  Maybe you could also include into a player's skill and ladder position(as well as having a player "reputation grade") based on completion of games through J/A'45.  Games not completed through J/A'45 count less, etc...
C



If I understand you are driving at is a metric to accuratly measure weather an opponent will play to the end of a scenario giving more weight to the longer scenarios and full games. This could be very useful in game matching. However; I believe it will need a minimum number of games to be an accurate representation of a player. Some form of a simple peer review may be of help here?



brian brian -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/10/2009 12:58:50 AM)

I thought this was the MWiF Fan Site...


and just so you know, Harry made some noises about setting up some more WiF related content on the ADG site a few months ago. Don't know if anything has came of that yet?


but an opponent ranking system would be very, very cool. there was one a long, long time ago



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/10/2009 4:39:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I thought this was the MWiF Fan Site...


and just so you know, Harry made some noises about setting up some more WiF related content on the ADG site a few months ago. Don't know if anything has came of that yet?


but an opponent ranking system would be very, very cool. there was one a long, long time ago

... in a land far away and down under?



Jagdtiger14 -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/10/2009 4:40:27 AM)

Yes, that is the metric I am driving at. One of the gripes or fears I've been reading about here on MWiF is that players will/might? abandon games if/when they get into a losing situation. Players interested in being on a ladder or on a rating system or players looking for games should have some kind of demerit/bonus/reputation based on their past behavior. Completion of games should get some kind of bonus for all players involved...win or lose. Players that quit a game(not players involved in a game where someone else quits) should lose points and have that fact noted in some form of attendence/reputation grading system?...not sure what to call it. When I wrote "through J/A'45" I meant to completion assuming playing the full game. If a scenario is played, then to completion of that scenario.
C


quote:

ORIGINAL: abj9562


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Great idea!  I hope you do it!  Maybe you could also include into a player's skill and ladder position(as well as having a player "reputation grade") based on completion of games through J/A'45.  Games not completed through J/A'45 count less, etc...
C



If I understand you are driving at is a metric to accuratly measure weather an opponent will play to the end of a scenario giving more weight to the longer scenarios and full games. This could be very useful in game matching. However; I believe it will need a minimum number of games to be an accurate representation of a player. Some form of a simple peer review may be of help here?




Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/10/2009 4:50:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Yes, that is the metric I am driving at. One of the gripes or fears I've been reading about here on MWiF is that players will/might? abandon games if/when they get into a losing situation. Players interested in being on a ladder or on a rating system or players looking for games should have some kind of demerit/bonus/reputation based on their past behavior. Completion of games should get some kind of bonus for all players involved...win or lose. Players that quit a game(not players involved in a game where someone else quits) should lose points and have that fact noted in some form of attendence/reputation grading system?...not sure what to call it. When I wrote "through J/A'45" I meant to completion assuming playing the full game. If a scenario is played, then to completion of that scenario.
C


quote:

ORIGINAL: abj9562


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Great idea!  I hope you do it!  Maybe you could also include into a player's skill and ladder position(as well as having a player "reputation grade") based on completion of games through J/A'45.  Games not completed through J/A'45 count less, etc...
C



If I understand you are driving at is a metric to accuratly measure weather an opponent will play to the end of a scenario giving more weight to the longer scenarios and full games. This could be very useful in game matching. However; I believe it will need a minimum number of games to be an accurate representation of a player. Some form of a simple peer review may be of help here?



Rather than simply a fixed end date, something that includes the decision to end the game based on mutual agreement by all players might be better.

There are also different scenarios - which have different numbers of turns - to consider.

Whether the game was NetPlay or PBEM might be important too.

And lastly, what about player A who keeps missing playing sessions (NetPlay) or takes overly long to return emails (PBEM) and thereby causes player B to abandon the game. Is it A or B who gets the 'blame'?



BallyJ -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/10/2009 5:54:36 AM)

Great idea!



Snydly -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/10/2009 5:56:30 AM)

I vote Froonp Site as the MWiF fan site [:)]



Neilster -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/10/2009 1:45:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I thought this was the MWiF Fan Site...


and just so you know, Harry made some noises about setting up some more WiF related content on the ADG site a few months ago. Don't know if anything has came of that yet?


but an opponent ranking system would be very, very cool. there was one a long, long time ago

... in a land far away and down under?

That sounds like Tasmania. The "long, long time ago" bit could be explained by the accusation that we're five years behind. Actually Hobart is quite funky and cosmopolitan but one doesn't have to go far to see a few six-fingered, banjo-plucking, cousin-fancyin' hill folk [:D] Hanging out as I do in gentrified Sandy Bay I get a bit of a shock when I do.

Anyhoo, I'm moving to Perth in a week. That's like Delaware to L.A. for our American friends. I've got some sweet transport lined up for the cross-country trip [:D]

Cheers, Neilster

[image]local://upfiles/10515/7DFA1134C72A4E40994A3100D1C0EA80.jpg[/image]



Anendrue -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/10/2009 1:57:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Yes, that is the metric I am driving at. One of the gripes or fears I've been reading about here on MWiF is that players will/might? abandon games if/when they get into a losing situation. Players interested in being on a ladder or on a rating system or players looking for games should have some kind of demerit/bonus/reputation based on their past behavior. Completion of games should get some kind of bonus for all players involved...win or lose. Players that quit a game(not players involved in a game where someone else quits) should lose points and have that fact noted in some form of attendence/reputation grading system?...not sure what to call it. When I wrote "through J/A'45" I meant to completion assuming playing the full game. If a scenario is played, then to completion of that scenario.
C


quote:

ORIGINAL: abj9562


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Great idea!  I hope you do it!  Maybe you could also include into a player's skill and ladder position(as well as having a player "reputation grade") based on completion of games through J/A'45.  Games not completed through J/A'45 count less, etc...
C



If I understand you are driving at is a metric to accuratly measure weather an opponent will play to the end of a scenario giving more weight to the longer scenarios and full games. This could be very useful in game matching. However; I believe it will need a minimum number of games to be an accurate representation of a player. Some form of a simple peer review may be of help here?



Rather than simply a fixed end date, something that includes the decision to end the game based on mutual agreement by all players might be better.

There are also different scenarios - which have different numbers of turns - to consider.

Whether the game was NetPlay or PBEM might be important too.

And lastly, what about player A who keeps missing playing sessions (NetPlay) or takes overly long to return emails (PBEM) and thereby causes player B to abandon the game. Is it A or B who gets the 'blame'?


Quite a bit to consider in order to keep a reporting system fair to all sides. Family medical emergencies, jobs that send you away, military deployments and more could unfairly target some people as persona non grata when it is neither accurate or fair. Perhaps the ladder is a better route. The individual who quits will drop in ranking while the other rises. I think over time a quitter will lower themselves enough to warn good players that a challenge does not exist.
Both require games to be played and data accumulated to give a better picture of the environment. I think the ladder is less obtrusive and has its own reward for excelling. If someone can overcome the points Steve indicated, I am all ears.



Anendrue -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/10/2009 2:20:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster
Anyhoo, I'm moving to Perth in a week. That's like Delaware to L.A. for our American friends. I've got some sweet transport lined up for the cross-country trip [:D]


Enjoy the drive!



macgregor -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/10/2009 2:29:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I thought this was the MWiF Fan Site...


and just so you know, Harry made some noises about setting up some more WiF related content on the ADG site a few months ago. Don't know if anything has came of that yet?


but an opponent ranking system would be very, very cool. there was one a long, long time ago

... in a land far away and down under?

That sounds like Tasmania. The "long, long time ago" bit could be explained by the accusation that we're five years behind. Actually Hobart is quite funky and cosmopolitan but one doesn't have to go far to see a few six-fingered, banjo-plucking, cousin-fancyin' hill folk [:D] Hanging out as I do in gentrified Sandy Bay I get a bit of a shock when I do.

Anyhoo, I'm moving to Perth in a week. That's like Delaware to L.A. for our American friends. I've got some sweet transport lined up for the cross-country trip [:D]

Cheers, Neilster

[image]local://upfiles/10515/7DFA1134C72A4E40994A3100D1C0EA80.jpg[/image]

i was in Hobart once, and have fond memories of that place. I went to the casino. The rumor around the USN at the time was that Tasmania had 11 women to every man. Is that true? I, in typical fashion, chased Heidi Klum only to go home with Ricki Lake(names have been altered). I saw Freemantle briefly -it looked like a train station surrounded by a town surrounded by desert. Large piles...of sulphur? If memory serves. That was 1979. I believe I remember this station wagon though.



Neilster -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/10/2009 3:07:12 PM)

Well, Fremantle and Hobart have changed significantly since then. Both have cashed in on their historical and nautical pasts to become boutique tourist centres. You know the drill...renovated sandstone warehouses, loads of classy restaurants on the waterfront and every time you turn around another wine-bar has opened up. There are a lot of foxy women around Hobart and I am lucky enough to know a few but the ratio you mentioned is pure shipboard fantasy [:D]

That Casino was a big deal when it opened in 1973 because it was the first one in Australia. It really kick-started Tasmanian tourism and it's now considered a bit of an architectural landmark. Sandy Bay has always been a strange but interesting mix because it has wealthy people, the university (with its attendant poverty stricken students) and the casino. Now its shopping district is rapidly becoming Hobart's Chinatown due to the number of Chinese students living nearby.

That car is (I believe) an exact replica of the Family Truckster from American Vacation. Note the dog lead still tied to the rear bumper. My Dad could get a bit like Clark Griswold on long car trips. Relentlessly upbeat but often not quite in touch with reality [;)]

Cheers, Neilster



macgregor -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/10/2009 3:52:16 PM)

Thank you for that update Neilster. I had such a good time in Australia, even as a lowly 3rd class sonar tech. I could go on, but I've used up my segway for now. Perhaps National Lampoon should do an Australian vacation movie. My experience alone might greatly help the writers.



SamuraiProgrmmr -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/10/2009 4:27:16 PM)

Personally, I think that it is acceptable to concede a game.  If I am clearly beat, then is it not better to acknowledge the superiority of my opponent and try again?  Or find new opponents?

If a player concedes, there should not be 'penalties' for not having finished the game.

If there are problems with someone returning a turn, there should be a facility for an automatic forfiet.

But please no penalties for admitting you lost and surrendering.



Neilster -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/10/2009 6:06:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: macgregor

Thank you for that update Neilster. I had such a good time in Australia, even as a lowly 3rd class sonar tech. I could go on, but I've used up my segway for now. Perhaps National Lampoon should do an Australian vacation movie. My experience alone might greatly help the writers.

We had the USS Tarawa visit not long ago and those guys seemed to have a lot of fun. After a long cruise (is that the right expression?) on a dry ship with little to spend one's wages on, I'm not surprised. The community went out of its way to put out the welcome mat and it brings in heaps of moola so everybody's happy.

The local Australian Rules Football team put out a general invitation and over 300 people from the ship turned up to their game. It wasn't long before desperate calls were put out to restock the bar and the team souvenir stand was sold out in no time. Despite some confusion about the rules, the sailors and marines were extremely enthusiastic in their support. Perhaps Hobart were inspired because they beat their arch rivals for the first time in years by 4 points (a very narrow win) and there were chaotic scenes in the change rooms after the game as these new and very drunk Aussie Rules fans joined the players in celebration [;)]

I spent quite an interesting and long afternoon with people from the Tarawa at Knopwoods tavern on the docks the next day. Good people. Good fun. They were on their way home after Hobart so they were in a jovial mood.

Cheers, Neilster



macgregor -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/10/2009 6:31:45 PM)

That's so cool. I remember the Tarawa was launched when I was in boot camp (sept '78?). We then metup with her in Phattaya...May '79(Freemantle-Hedland-Singapore came first). I got to ride a in a 'Mikeboat'. Australia was the most fun though. Precisely for the kind of stuff you mentioned.
quote:

Personally, I think that it is acceptable to concede a game. If I am clearly beat, then is it not better to acknowledge the superiority of my opponent and try again? Or find new opponents?

If a player concedes, there should not be 'penalties' for not having finished the game.

If there are problems with someone returning a turn, there should be a facility for an automatic forfiet.

But please no penalties for admitting you lost and surrendering.

I agree. I suppose to up the stakes you could agree to fight to bitter end at the beginning of a game to then see how long each player could hold out, but otherwise I don't see the necessity.



Cheesehead -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/10/2009 7:01:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SamuraiProgrammer

Personally, I think that it is acceptable to concede a game.  If I am clearly beat, then is it not better to acknowledge the superiority of my opponent and try again?  Or find new opponents?

If a player concedes, there should not be 'penalties' for not having finished the game.

If there are problems with someone returning a turn, there should be a facility for an automatic forfiet.

But please no penalties for admitting you lost and surrendering.



I agree. I've been in both situations in unwinnable games by 1942 and I didn't mind when my opponent surrendered early. This game is too consuming to expect a guy to play on when all hope is lost.



MajorDude -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/10/2009 7:44:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cheesehead


quote:

ORIGINAL: SamuraiProgrammer

Personally, I think that it is acceptable to concede a game.  If I am clearly beat, then is it not better to acknowledge the superiority of my opponent and try again?  Or find new opponents?

If a player concedes, there should not be 'penalties' for not having finished the game.

If there are problems with someone returning a turn, there should be a facility for an automatic forfiet.

But please no penalties for admitting you lost and surrendering.



I agree. I've been in both situations in unwinnable games by 1942 and I didn't mind when my opponent surrendered early. This game is too consuming to expect a guy to play on when all hope is lost.



However, if this were not the case, this could be a great occasion to give players the option to continue vs. AIO if player(s) drop(s) for whatever reason - give the guys a chance to play it to the end and see how it turns out - who knows, there could be some surprises if play were allowed to continue this way. [:'(]

Of course, this may not solve the ladder/ranking problem, but what do you think about it? [:)]



micheljq -> RE: MWiF Fan Site (6/10/2009 7:53:00 PM)

Logically, if a player surrenders, he acknowledges his defeat. So if he surrenders, it should be consider a defeat for him and a victory for his opponent.



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