How exactly does LR CAP work? (Full Version)

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Ron Saueracker -> How exactly does LR CAP work? (5/30/2002 12:51:01 PM)

From what I can determine here, air groups are given orders in the form of primary and secondary missions. With LR CAP, how does this work? Can one split an airgroup's duties to include some percentage on LR CAP, some on regular CAP, and some on ESCORT?



von Murrin -> (5/30/2002 12:58:03 PM)

LRCAP is all or nothing. You can only do it if you set your CAP level to 100%. You have two options for it: to specify a target (hex, base, TF), or let it go where it wants. Can't see the purpose of the second option yet.

Personally, I use LRCAP quite a bit. The only real drawback is that pilot fatigue and morale can get really bad in a very short period of time.



Erik Rutins -> A minor point... (5/30/2002 1:14:00 PM)

The purpose of the second option for me is to cover approaching or departing task forces. When you put a squadron on LR-CAP with no definite target, the squadron commander will generally pick a TF in range and provide it with air cover. If no TFs are in range, he'll defend the base until they come in range.

Regards,

- Erik



Ron Saueracker -> But.... (5/30/2002 1:25:52 PM)

If LR CAP is all or nothing, how does one protect ones own TF and strike missions if, let's say, we have only one CV in a TF? Sounds like one must rob Peter to pay Paul, especially if there is only one group of fighters(IE. all 36 F4Fs are in one group). If split in two flights, no prob. Is this the case?



von Murrin -> (5/30/2002 1:35:02 PM)

Thanks Erik. :)

Ron,

If your CV is attacked, any fighters currently in the vicinity of your TF have a chance to join in the fray or scramble. It's a lot like real life. Having 100% dedicated CAP means that the fighters all make for that target, not that they're all up at once. :)



Ron Saueracker -> Right, but.... (5/30/2002 1:39:02 PM)

If ya got everything on LR CAP, how are your strike groups escorted? DBs and TBs don't fair well if all fighters are on LR CAP and not protecting the bombers.



Pkunzipper -> (5/30/2002 1:47:56 PM)

If you want your fighter do escort duties you must give them "escort" order.
When you select escort, you can set also the % of fighter that will fly CAP over your TF

That I can't understand is why I can't assign 100% of pilots on doing training, patrol or sweep.
When I select 100% for those misions the computer switches automaitcally into "LRCAP"



von Murrin -> (5/30/2002 2:43:10 PM)

Ron,

He who defends everything defends nothing. :)

You'd have like 6 fighters each doing LRCAP, escort, and CAP. Worthless.

That being said, sometimes your TF commander [I]will[/I] do the three way split. If that happens, close your eyes, 'cuz that turn is gonna make you weep. :p



Sonny -> (5/30/2002 9:34:06 PM)

The only way to split them up is to remove a group of bombers and replace them with more fighters. Then set one group to LRCAP and the other to ESCORT with a certain % going for regular CAP.:)



Beckles -> (5/30/2002 9:58:03 PM)

Suggestion to Matrix/2by3: The problem I have with LR CAP is that you can't set it to a TF that's currently out of range. Often there is a TF that is out of range during the orders phase but that I know will be in range by the Air Phase of the Day Turn ... I'd like to be able to assign LR CAP to TF's currently out of range (and if they don't get in range, they just don't fly that day ...)

Of course, I guess you could assign LR CAP without a target and hopefully they'd cover the TF that moves in range ...



Ron Saueracker -> Sonny (5/30/2002 10:06:31 PM)

So there is only one group of fighters? That could create a few problems in complicated situations like offshore invasion fleet protection. One can cover the invasion fleet, but leaves ones carriers with no cap? Ouch.

I will find out myself, today I think.:D



WW2'er -> Good suggestion! (5/30/2002 10:09:52 PM)

[QUOTE]Suggestion to Matrix/2by3: The problem I have with LR CAP is that you can't set it to a TF that's currently out of range. Often there is a TF that is out of range during the orders phase but that I know will be in range by the Air Phase of the Day Turn ... I'd like to be able to assign LR CAP to TF's currently out of range (and if they don't get in range, they just don't fly that day ...) [/QUOTE]

I agree that this would be a good option to have. (Good call Beckles!) I had this exact situation happen to me while playing last night. I had a CV that I knew would catch up to a supply convoy by the next day and be able to cover it. Overall, it's not a gamebreaker by any means, but it would be a "Nice to Have" additional feature in a patch or in the future game, War In The Pacific.



Henri -> Re: Sonny (5/30/2002 10:12:23 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ron Saueracker
[B]So there is only one group of fighters? That could create a few problems in complicated situations like offshore invasion fleet protection. One can cover the invasion fleet, but leaves ones carriers with no cap? Ouch.
[/B][/QUOTE]

if I understood, this is only a problem if you put your fighters on long range CAP (only 100% is possible in this case). But you can put some fighters on Escort, some on CAP and some on recn, for example.

henri



Sonny -> Re: Re: Sonny (5/30/2002 10:49:38 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Henri
[B]

if I understood, this is only a problem if you put your fighters on long range CAP (only 100% is possible in this case). But you can put some fighters on Escort, some on CAP and some on recn, for example.

henri [/B][/QUOTE]

Yep there is only one group of fighters initially assigned to a carrier and you can either put them on LRCAP (in which case they will be assigned to cover other assets in the area - or if there are none they will cover their original hex) or you can set them to ESCORT and set the CAP % but you can't put them on RECON and ESCORT and CAP all at the same time.

Carriers are limited to the number of planes they can carry and not the number of groups (AFAIK). So if you have some groups short of planes you can add another short group of fighters and split the CAP up as I posted before. Also you don't need LRCAP to cover assets in your carrier hex, they cover anything within the hex whether it is part of your carrier TF or not. The same applies for bases. If you have regular CAP on Lunga they will protect the base, the port, troops and any ships unloading in port.:)



NorthStar -> Watch adding understrength groups (5/30/2002 11:20:42 PM)

Be careful adding understrenght groups to carriers! These groups will add replacement planes over time as they become available, and if the number of planes exceeds the carriers capacity by more than 10%, air operations will cease! The only mission that can be flow with a carrier over 110% of its capacity is a transferr mission!

That being said, I've often found that there is room on a carrier for an extra air group, which is what I use the extra marine squadrons that appear in the bases above Noumea (can't remember the names right now) for sometimes.

This way, you can have one group split between escort and local CAP, and one group available for LRCAP, if necessary. And extra fighters never hurt, in any event.



MikeE -> (5/30/2002 11:42:49 PM)

According to the manual, in addition to the limit on the actual number of planes, a CV is limited to a maximum of 5 Air Groups also. (p. 86 - I just happened to read that last night.)



Reiryc -> (5/30/2002 11:51:17 PM)

Ok ron...

Im not sure but I think the advantages of LRCap and when to use them haven't addressed your issues so far...

quote:

If LR CAP is all or nothing, how does one protect ones own TF and strike missions if, let's say, we have only one CV in a TF? Sounds like one must rob Peter to pay Paul, especially if there is only one group of fighters(IE. all 36 F4Fs are in one group). If split in two flights, no prob. Is this the case?


Ok here's the deal.

In this case of 1 carrier the goal would not really be to provide LRCAP to another base or TF with that carrier group.

Instead, you would want to provide LRCap with some base for that carrier. So, lets say I have the akagi in an air combat group. This air combat group is following a surface combat group that Im using to attack an american fleet at lunga (guadalcanal). I would want to provide LRCap from one of my bases, say rabaul, for those TF's going to lunga. Thus increasing the amount of fighter protection for those TF's.

So you're right, you probably wouldnt want to LRCAP from that single carrier, you would however want a land base with 3 fighter groups, say like rabaul, to add fighter support for that carrier TF.

LRCAP only provides about 20% of its total fighter group strength as cap to the intended target, so its not a huge sum of fighters being added for help, but adding 20 fighters from 3-4 fighter air groups is better than nothing. :)

Now for the current Air combat TF with 1 carrier, you'd probably want to set the fighter group mission as escort and about 70-80% cap...maybe more on cap if going to a known aircraft dominated area of the enemy. Thus if at escort 80% cap, 20% of the carriers fighter strength will escort a strike on the enemy, the remaining 80% will provide cap over the hex the task force is currently in.

Hope this is what you were lookin' for...

Reiryc



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