RE: AE's price (Full Version)

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Charles2222 -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 3:42:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hornblower

I dropped $40 for UV in 2003 then another @$40 for WITP, which i have played and enjoyed for 6 years. thats what 4 cents a day??   based on that my purchase of these two games may have been the best buy i ever made. in fact i am playing my 4 cents worth right now!!!

No, not really, it still cost you $80. My house cost me X amount, and it don't get cheaper because it hasn't fallen down yet. I don't pay for items for over 5 years time, especially something more hopefully relatively less expensive like a game. At that rate, any of the Civ series would had costed me less than a penny a day (the price being much cheaper to start out with contributes heavily to that). Nevermind that I didn't play it absolutely every day. Are you telling me that they gave you a massive discount for WITP, because you had UV, or was WITP discounted that heavily at one time?



Charles2222 -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 3:43:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stuman


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I find it slightly amusing that people continue to speculate about AE's price being "too high" WHEN NOBODY HAS TOLD THEM THE PRICE YET!!!!!



T, as I have pointed out previously, a huge portion of the posting in this thread are about things we do not know much about. If you make me stop writing when I am clueless, then I may never be able to post agai.........

Oh don't make T come over and whack you.



Erik Rutins -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 4:00:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22
So I guess to fall in with the pricing scheme, AE as standalone would have to hover in the $140 turf wouldn't it? Fat chance that sells. With that reasoning I guess WITE will have that price minimum. Or maybe it can price as WiTP and then come out with the massive bug fix called an expansion pack which requires the original game, which then can net the $140 or so?


Well, I know you haven't played AE and you apparently haven't even read the feature list, nor do you have any real facts on WITE pricing. Get back to me when you've got a basis for comments like that.

Regards,

- Erik



SuluSea -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 4:02:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22


And to think you claimed you would pay $200 for it, and waited a year while buying at a holiday sale[8|].




Hey , if you're going to take a shot at a forum member you should do it without lying. The same post I stated I bought WITP during the Christmas sale.


post 91

On 5/14/2009 Sulusea posted-

quote:

Whatever the cost of AE I'll be buying it. If it costs $200 I'll be making a purchase of the game the day it's released.


And this benefits the person taking time to write this how? Another school of thought could be some who have made the purchase are happy with the replay value that WITP gives, I was a skeptic myself until I took the plunge during the Christmas sale and saw that the game is worth much more than I paid for it. I expect the same for AE. Whatever Matrix asks for the title they'll be shortchanging themselves considering the level of work put into the game and competence of the team members. From the outside looking in it looks like their labor of love.





AttuWatcher -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 4:18:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi guys,

One bit of news. We discussed and agreed to discount WITP for a limited time when AE is released, so that those who are excited by AE but don't own either game will have a lower total cost. Keep in mind this will be a limited time offer, so if you're looking for that opportunity, this will be it. We hope this will encourage some of the price-related fence sitters to test the water, it's really quite nice. [8D] The next chance will probably be in our annual holiday sale. The long term price of WITP will not decrease and we still do feel that it's a good idea to buy and try WITP first before jumping into AE. WITP does indeed also have scenario content that is not duplicated in AE and its increased scale means that it is in some ways less daunting.

Regards,

- Erik


Great! Count me among the new WITP/AE players on that day [:D]

And as you say, the fact that WiTP has unique (and less complex) scenarios makes it a good buy for a player like Berto. I'm a fan of short scenarios myself but I do fancy making a concerted effort on the grand campaign at least once.



goodwoodrw -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 9:40:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

One important thing to realize is that if AE were a true stand-alone game with no WITP required, the price for AE would be significantly higher.


A bit eat my cake as well as keep it to syndrome. Or looking at it another way, very expensive stand alone installer.[:D][:D] Personally I haven't decided either way to buy the game or not, being a current a owner of WITP its more beneficial to me to have it the way Matrix is about to market it, however as first time buyer to the franchise, its a considerable dollar investment, especially paying near full price for a game that is 5 years plus and a new one which is very similar. A comparison is buying HOI, after buying HOI3 would go back and play HOI1 for the different scenario content, fat chance I would say. I shall wait the flame![;)]



Miller -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 10:55:16 AM)

It will cost the equivalent of a couple of nights out on the beer.

I know there is a worldwide recession going on but £50/$70 is a drop in the ocean to most WITP players when you consider the overall cost per hour of playing.



Erik Rutins -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 12:27:23 PM)

As a side note, WITP is due to get another update as well which will include some of the fixes for issues we discovered while developing AE. This should come out after AE is released (realistically, probably after the first AE update). It's worth nothing that though WITP is 5 years old, it is still the best of its kind and has been continually updated since its release. I still consider it a bargain given how much work has gone into it and I think that will continue to be true even after AE's release.



berto -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 12:51:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

As a side note, WITP is due to get another update as well which will include some of the fixes for issues we discovered while developing AE. This should come out after AE is released (realistically, probably after the first AE update).


That right there would go part way towards assuaging the ill feelings of newcomers forced to purchase both games (WitP more or less involuntarily). Thanks for the continued (and continuing into the future?) WitP updates.



Charles2222 -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 2:19:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22


And to think you claimed you would pay $200 for it, and waited a year while buying at a holiday sale[8|].




Hey , if you're going to take a shot at a forum member you should do it without lying. The same post I stated I bought WITP during the Christmas sale.


post 91

On 5/14/2009 Sulusea posted-

quote:

Whatever the cost of AE I'll be buying it. If it costs $200 I'll be making a purchase of the game the day it's released.


And this benefits the person taking time to write this how? Another school of thought could be some who have made the purchase are happy with the replay value that WITP gives, I was a skeptic myself until I took the plunge during the Christmas sale and saw that the game is worth much more than I paid for it. I expect the same for AE. Whatever Matrix asks for the title they'll be shortchanging themselves considering the level of work put into the game and competence of the team members. From the outside looking in it looks like their labor of love.




I'm sorry my specifics were wrong, you made the general statement that you would pay $200 for a computer game as I saw it. Instead, you stated you would pay $200 for AE; not a whole lot of difference there, as it's like I said, little more than an empty boast. So what this means is that you were so satisfied with WITP, despite not forking out $200 (and I detailed how you could do that - which you didn't) that you would indeed fork out $200 for AE? Understood, and somewhat more plausible, but do understand, whether you did this or not yourself, the context was that we were having people who had not bought either game and you, and others, were trying to use the argument that if you were willing to spend so much on a game, that they should feel that much more certain that they are not taking a gamble to buy it. Sorry SuleSea, I'm not taking a shot at you, as much as I'm tired of the boasting that goes on when trying to convince others of why they should buy the product; as it's total baloney (as I alluded in those posts a few months back). You guys like the product, and Las Vegas is full of people who like to throw money around foolishly, but don't equate money you allegedly willing to spend as a lure for somebody else.



Charles2222 -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 2:32:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22
So I guess to fall in with the pricing scheme, AE as standalone would have to hover in the $140 turf wouldn't it? Fat chance that sells. With that reasoning I guess WITE will have that price minimum. Or maybe it can price as WiTP and then come out with the massive bug fix called an expansion pack which requires the original game, which then can net the $140 or so?


Well, I know you haven't played AE and you apparently haven't even read the feature list, nor do you have any real facts on WITE pricing. Get back to me when you've got a basis for comments like that.

Regards,

- Erik

You're telling me this is really a different game? Hex size changing means that much (despite how much work that may take)? I have read all the facts about the game, and while it is different to a degree, the original was broke in the first place (not everyone agrees with that naturally), and it is more or less a fix anyway. Pricing? We got that information from you. Either your information is wrong or it is not. We may make an incorrect assumption of the precise price, but we were working off the information you provided (your information wasn't meant to be precise, but we couldn't be far off the mark and your information be correct). I did mention that the 'package' price of the two games wouldn't be in the $140-$150 territory early on, but that again was based on information which you or some other Matrix mod provided, and speaks nothing to what the price will be once there isn't a sale. So, really, there is a basis here isn't there? Not precise, but a basis nonetheless. Maybe you would had been better off not providing us with that information? We appreciate you making things clearer however.



viberpol -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 2:51:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
We will also be discounting War in the Pacific for a limited time to coincide with the release of the Admiral's Edition.


The question is: How big the discount on WITP will be?



hurtzDonut -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 3:00:07 PM)

When will the price be published?



Erik Rutins -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 3:11:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hurtzDonut
When will the price be published?


See this thread: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2161992



vettim89 -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 3:19:24 PM)

Really guys? REALLY? Lets do the economics here. AT $70 per copy, AE will gross Matrix what? Even if it sells 10000 copies it is a $700,000 gross. Take away from that the cost of printing the manual, the box, maintaining and updating the website, overhead, and advertisement. There is a reason why the AE team isn't paid ====> there is not enough profit margin to support a team of developers for a game like this. This isn't Grand Theft Auto V. Matrix will make a profit for sure but it is not going to be raking it in. This isn't the heyday of Computer Wargaming. Truth is that I fear we will be seeing less and less Grognard suitable stuff coming out in the future. The console games are king now and it is unlikely that will change except for the few of us remaining hardcore war gamers. Look what happened to table top war games. They are a niche market and a lot of companies only release games when they have enough preorders to cover the printing costs.

You could always go over to Decision Games and buy the table top WiTP 2nd edition - it goes for a mere $450



Apollo11 -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 3:49:15 PM)

Hi all,

I own UV and I own WitP.

I will most certainly buy the WitP-AE the minute it is available! [:)]


Just ask yourself how many days / weeks / months / years of enjoyment, fun and fantastic game value those titles brought us in the past?

What else is / was there on the market that even come near to that?

How much money you spend, in all these years, on the titles that you played just for few days / weeks?


IMHO the price is fully justified and we should all be very very grateful to:

2By3 (original authors and programmers) [&o][&o][&o]

Matrix (producers who enabled all of this) [&o][&o][&o]

WitP-AE Team (great people, part of our community here, who devoted their time and made the new WitP-AE without pay) [&o][&o][&o]


Thank you guys for fantastic work!!! [&o][&o][&o]


Yes... I know... it is recession... these are hard times... but I will still gladly pay for the good book, good movie and great game the WitP-AE will most certainly be! [:)]



Leo "Apollo11"



Historiker -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 4:01:10 PM)

Long live free market economy! If it's too expensive, don't buy it. If it's worth it, grant the money to the developers!



Charles2222 -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 4:13:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vettim89

Really guys? REALLY? Lets do the economics here. AT $70 per copy, AE will gross Matrix what? Even if it sells 10000 copies it is a $700,000 gross. Take away from that the cost of printing the manual, the box, maintaining and updating the website, overhead, and advertisement. There is a reason why the AE team isn't paid ====> there is not enough profit margin to support a team of developers for a game like this. This isn't Grand Theft Auto V. Matrix will make a profit for sure but it is not going to be raking it in. This isn't the heyday of Computer Wargaming. Truth is that I fear we will be seeing less and less Grognard suitable stuff coming out in the future. The console games are king now and it is unlikely that will change except for the few of us remaining hardcore war gamers. Look what happened to table top war games. They are a niche market and a lot of companies only release games when they have enough preorders to cover the printing costs.

You could always go over to Decision Games and buy the table top WiTP 2nd edition - it goes for a mere $450

Table top people are used to paying ridiculous amounts. I'm curious as to whether they have the option of returning their opened product, unlike software?



bradfordkay -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 4:14:32 PM)

The money I spent on WITP is far from money being thrown away foolishly. Five years later it continues to take up at least an hour of my time each day. I can't think of too many entertainment purchases that have given me so much value for so little cost... 



hurtzDonut -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 4:15:24 PM)

Thanks Erik and Viberpol!



viberpol -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 4:17:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

The money I spent on WITP is far from money being thrown away foolishly. Five years later it continues to take up at least an hour of my time each day. I can't think of too many entertainment purchases that have given me so much value for so little cost... 


Well said bradfordkay.
I've been playing WITP for many years...
And I expect to play WITP AE with my grandchildren when they'll eventually appear. [:D]



51st Highland Div -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 4:36:32 PM)

Considering i have been played WitP since it came out all those years ago imo the price for AE is a very fair one for the hours and hours of entertainment it will provide...if you dont want to pay the money for a service you dont have to, no-one is holding a gun to your head [:D]



Graycompany -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 4:39:36 PM)

If matrix was passing out free $100.00 dollar Bills, someone would complain "What, all you have is a Hundred, no 5's, no 10's, no 20's? how am I going to cash this?.. There is one in every group.



Terminus -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 4:45:59 PM)

More than one, actually...



vonSchnitter -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 5:18:00 PM)

Come on guys

if it comes to GCPM/B (Game cost per minute/Bucks) - UV/WitP is unsurpassed in my book.

I found a copy of UV in a store in Germany which has gone out of business long since - took it home because some web site (combat sim or some such) published a favourable review of it.

However - UV got me interested in the format, and I sure got me a copy of WitP. It certainly outlived any game on my puters HD.
As the old wit goes: I got assimilated !

Anyway: WitP/AE is quite certain to have some shortcomings/issues.
But who to complain to if the cost of publishing a title - and therefore the cost of listening to complaints / suggestions is not covered ?

Whatever: Get the word out it is coming. The more customers, the more PBM opponents.

Cheers




Charles2222 -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 5:37:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

The money I spent on WITP is far from money being thrown away foolishly. Five years later it continues to take up at least an hour of my time each day. I can't think of too many entertainment purchases that have given me so much value for so little cost... 

It was for me. Now WIR OTOH, despite that I don't play it anymore, would probably dwarf most anyone's playtime on WITP. Maybe if I feel like throwing another 59.99+ (AE) into this game, then maybe it will be playable for me.



thegreatwent -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 5:47:17 PM)

quote:

The money I spent on WITP is far from money being thrown away foolishly. Five years later it continues to take up at least an hour of my time each day. I can't think of too many entertainment purchases that have given me so much value for so little cost...


Like you I may only play an hour or so a day, yet the time spend thinking about the game is much greater. The value of this game as a hobby is immense.



Dili -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 5:59:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

One important thing to realize is that if AE were a true stand-alone game with no WITP required, the price for AE would be significantly higher.

quote:

Regards, - Erik



_____________________________


I said two versions. One extension for witp users with whatever price you guys are thinking about.
Another standalone for new users with a standalone game like price. Hey it could have been even the same value of witp+AE, if a gamer doesn't have to install witp to play AE it is already a benefit over current intended system.




Terminus -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 6:17:26 PM)

Yawn... This whole thing is getting boring.

Buy the game or don't buy the game, it's up to you. Matrix isn't forcing you, Henderson Field Designs isn't forcing you, Al Quaida isn't forcing you, so don't try to make it their fault.

If you decide not to get on a bus before it leaves the station, don't blame the bus driver.

THE END.



drw61 -> RE: AE's price (7/11/2009 6:49:53 PM)

Charles_22
This is a really simple decision, if it is not worth the money to you don't purchase it.   Maybe you should spend that next couple of months reading the AE AARs and forums, that way you can make a more informed decision if the price is worth it. 



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