quote:

ORIGINAL: drw61

Charles_22
This is a really simple decision, if it is not worth the money to you don't purchase it.   Maybe you should spend that next couple of months reading the AE AARs and forums, that way you can make a more informed decision if the price is worth it. 

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ORIGINAL: Terminus

Well, if you're going to make a decision like this based on no data whatsoever, then that's your prerogative. Just don't try to make it our problem.

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ORIGINAL: Charles_22

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ORIGINAL: Terminus

Well, if you're going to make a decision like this based on no data whatsoever, then that's your prerogative. Just don't try to make it our problem.

I guess not agreeing with somebody amounts to not reading the forums for some people. Go figure! Predicting the AE price within a penny, for something Eric said "once" is hardly the trait of somebody knowing anything, but just go shooting off your mouth some more T, it's what you're good at![:@]

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ORIGINAL: Dili
I said two versions. One extension for witp users with whatever price you guys are thinking about.
Another standalone for new users with a standalone game like price. Hey it could have been even the same value of witp+AE, if a gamer doesn't have to install witp to play AE it is already a benefit over current intended system.

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ORIGINAL: Charles_22
Sheesh, what do you think I have been doing the past months? It's not a different game; simple as that. I'm still debating whether $60+ for a fix with some cosmetic changes, is either ripping me again or is a costly adjustment to make WITP playable.

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ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Charles,

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ORIGINAL: Charles_22
Sheesh, what do you think I have been doing the past months? It's not a different game; simple as that. I'm still debating whether $60+ for a fix with some cosmetic changes, is either ripping me again or is a costly adjustment to make WITP playable.

Like it or not, you _are_ jumping to conclusions based on what appears to be a complete misunderstanding of the actual facts. AE is a heck of a lot more than a fix with cosmetic changes. Virtually every part of WITP has been either rewritten, adjusted or overhauled, including new combat, repair and economic systems as well as a completely new AI. The total development time put into AE is more than was invested in WITP. If it appears from screenshots and AARs similar to you superficially similar, then the dev team did its job of making WITP players feel at home in AE despite all the changes.

If you don't want to buy it, no problem, but continuing to claim that it's only a bug fix with cosmetic changes is fundamentally incorrect and I'm not going to give you a pass on that. You don't have AE, but you sure do have enough information to educate yourself and open your eyes to what has really been accomplished here.

Regards,

- Erik

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ORIGINAL: berto

At the risk of provoking controversy, here goes...

I suspect that, by forced bundling of AE with the original WitP, Matrix will lose many unit sales and quite possibly diminish their overall revenue.

By bundling both games, Matrix might be setting the price bar so high as to alienate

--casual gamers
--the curious, try-it-and-see-if-i-like-it crowd
--the free-time challenged
--the financially strapped
--game collectors
--other fence sitters (e.g., those poor sods who need their wife's permission before buying)

Just MHO.

Now, excuse me as I run for cover... [sm=scared0018.gif]

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ORIGINAL: FAsea

I think it goes back to the fact that continuing WiTP sales are minimal. (more a factor of business model than money grab) Because of that I don't foresee the discount being more than $10-20 doll hairs. But more of a discount would of course be welcome and directly increase the quantity of new players. 

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I'd have to disagree with that. WITP is an excellent game in its own right and has scenario content that is not in AE. Getting both for the same price instead of one would seem to me to be a benefit, rather than the other way around.

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ORIGINAL: rroberson

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ORIGINAL: FAsea

I think it goes back to the fact that continuing WiTP sales are minimal. (more a factor of business model than money grab) Because of that I don't foresee the discount being more than $10-20 doll hairs. But more of a discount would of course be welcome and directly increase the quantity of new players. 

I think that is largely what has me annoyed. I'd like to bring new people to the WITP family...I call them victims :-). The fact is most of my wargaming buddies took a pass on vanilla because of the price point. Now we are doubling the price. Extremely frustrating.

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ORIGINAL: rroberson
If all this is true. Why do people have to own Vanilla to get AE? I think that's the thing that has me annoyed about the price. It would be one thing if it was a new off the shelf game, but requiring people to own Vanilla to run AE makes it a mod.

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And even if you call it an expansion...70 bucks for an expansion...ouch. I can think of no other examples where a game company (and Im sure about 20 fanboys are about to prove me wrong [:D]) releases an expansion that requires the original game and it costs as much. Given that you didn't pay the people who developed this for you...sounds like a money grab. Whatever, the price has pushed me on the fence. I am fairly certain one night in a frenzy of AAR readings I will purchase it, but I am squarely on the fence right now.

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ORIGINAL: Gary Childress
This may be a little OT but will the AE team be getting any of the proceeds to the sales of AE? I just ask because I think they are a great bunch of people and deserve some sort of reward for a job well done on behalf of the WITP community. I hope they are getting something for all their dedicated work. [:)]

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ORIGINAL: scout1

Well, if you compare games we have all purchased for $30, $40, $50, $60 that only stayed on our hard drives for a short time, compared to WitP, AE prices are NOT a bad deal by any means. If you run the $/hour, WitP and soon AE, will be by far the best deal that most of us have ever incurred ..... I understand the initial cost factor, but must look at the big picture ....

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ORIGINAL: Charles_22

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ORIGINAL: rroberson

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ORIGINAL: FAsea

I think it goes back to the fact that continuing WiTP sales are minimal. (more a factor of business model than money grab) Because of that I don't foresee the discount being more than $10-20 doll hairs. But more of a discount would of course be welcome and directly increase the quantity of new players. 

I think that is largely what has me annoyed. I'd like to bring new people to the WITP family...I call them victims :-). The fact is most of my wargaming buddies took a pass on vanilla because of the price point. Now we are doubling the price. Extremely frustrating.

You can just see all those IJ PBEM players lining up, can't you?

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ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: rroberson
If all this is true. Why do people have to own Vanilla to get AE? I think that's the thing that has me annoyed about the price. It would be one thing if it was a new off the shelf game, but requiring people to own Vanilla to run AE makes it a mod.

No, it's a way to make sure that we don't get folks jumping into AE and subsequently running for their lives. WITP is a stepping stone to AE, simple as that. It is also still a great game in its own right.

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And even if you call it an expansion...70 bucks for an expansion...ouch. I can think of no other examples where a game company (and Im sure about 20 fanboys are about to prove me wrong [:D]) releases an expansion that requires the original game and it costs as much. Given that you didn't pay the people who developed this for you...sounds like a money grab. Whatever, the price has pushed me on the fence. I am fairly certain one night in a frenzy of AAR readings I will purchase it, but I am squarely on the fence right now.

It's not an expansion. It's its own game. It installs as a stand-alone, but requires ownership of WITP. I realize this is not a "typical" arrangement and that may be causing some of this confusion. You're trying to find an analog in the normal mainstream marketing of games. WITP is not a mainstream game, this is not a typical situation and there is not an exact analog.

Wargaming is a niche, "monster" wargaming is an extreme niche and this is what it basically costs to continue development on these kinds of games, once every five years. That doesn't seem particularly steep to me when I look at how much development and research is involved. Frankly, if we had made AE stand-alone, then the price on its own would have been high enough that I could see people balking and that also would have been called unfair by many. It is what it is. We've set the price, each person has to decide if it's right for them, given what we've announced we are delivering for that price.

For people who already own WITP, you are really getting a full new game in terms of development effort when you purchase AE, but it works like WITP so your learning curve should be a bit easier than it would be for someone starting out fresh. For those who don't have either, WITP is a step on the way to AE, some may get there, some may not.

Regards,

- Erik

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ORIGINAL: rroberson
That works right up until the moment the wife sees the CC bill ;-). The point is, we are in a recession, I have had to cut way back on purchases of "me" products, I AM NOT ALONE IN THIS. I now have to be picky where I didn't have to even 3, 4 years ago. so yes, there is a big difference to me in a game that has last on my HD since its release that I dropped 70 bucks on (I actually dropped about 100 <dont ask> ) and a 30 dollar game I might get a few months out of...that sticker shock hurts.

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ORIGINAL: rroberson
I know you won't go into this here, private company data and all that. But what exactly did it cost you to develop AE? Your work force was a group of volunteers. Sure, the disk printing, box, and printed rules cost a bit, but for a digital download I don't see a lot of development costs. Again, I have no idea...it is why I am asking.

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ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

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ORIGINAL: rroberson
I know you won't go into this here, private company data and all that. But what exactly did it cost you to develop AE? Your work force was a group of volunteers. Sure, the disk printing, box, and printed rules cost a bit, but for a digital download I don't see a lot of development costs. Again, I have no idea...it is why I am asking.

I can't discuss that, sorry. Wish I could go into detail, but I can only say that supporting AE will also support continued development of these kinds of games here at Matrix.

I understand your frustration as far as your friends go, I think if they don't take the plunge now, you should have an easier time after release once everyone has had a chance to give it a spin. Showing it to them in person may also help bring them around.

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ORIGINAL: rroberson

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ORIGINAL: Charles_22

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ORIGINAL: rroberson

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ORIGINAL: FAsea

I think it goes back to the fact that continuing WiTP sales are minimal. (more a factor of business model than money grab) Because of that I don't foresee the discount being more than $10-20 doll hairs. But more of a discount would of course be welcome and directly increase the quantity of new players. 

I think that is largely what has me annoyed. I'd like to bring new people to the WITP family...I call them victims :-). The fact is most of my wargaming buddies took a pass on vanilla because of the price point. Now we are doubling the price. Extremely frustrating.

You can just see all those IJ PBEM players lining up, can't you?

Ha! I always get stuck as the japanese...a lot of onliners fear playing that side [8D]