US Submarine torpedoes

US Submarine torpedoes (Full Version)

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jerrylt2008 -> US Submarine torpedoes (7/21/2009 8:00:06 PM)
I understand that US submarine torpedoes are in effect useless until early 1943. I guess you might get a lucky detonation occassionally but ussually it will miss or not explode. Since this is the case, should I send them out of port at all? I guess they would be good intelligence gatherers or the occasional supply run or troop deployment (limited). I am not trying to open up this can of worms again. I am asking if I should just leave them in port or send them out to spot ships and maybe act like coast watchers?

Terminus -> RE: US Submarine torpedoes (7/21/2009 8:02:45 PM)
You should definitely use your submarines as much as possible. Your dud rate is only 80% to start with, and sometimes your dice rolls actually come up to your advantage. Leaving your subs in port is criminal neglect.

Charbroiled -> RE: US Submarine torpedoes (7/21/2009 8:14:22 PM)
Even with the dud rate, I have still been able to sink a few ships here and there. Send them out...you never know what you might sink.

jerrylt2008 -> RE: US Submarine torpedoes (7/21/2009 8:22:45 PM)
Thank you everyone. I was assuming that they would be the front line in defense.

NormS3 -> RE: US Submarine torpedoes (7/21/2009 8:25:28 PM)
Any chance of subs getting hit by their own errant torps?

Nikademus -> RE: US Submarine torpedoes (7/21/2009 8:26:58 PM)
no

Shark7 -> RE: US Submarine torpedoes (7/21/2009 9:37:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Norm3 Any chance of subs getting hit by their own errant torps? With straight runners? Highly unlikely...in fact improbable. With wake following or active homing, it would be possible if all the safeties are removed and you somehow end up in the path of your own torpedo, improbable. In game, I seriously doubt it.

greg_slith -> RE: US Submarine torpedoes (7/21/2009 9:47:10 PM)
Improbable maybe but it did happen. Dick O'Kane was nearly killed by his own fish and many other boats that "disappeared" are thought to have been hit by their own straight runners (who didn't run straight).

Shark7 -> RE: US Submarine torpedoes (7/21/2009 9:52:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ecwgcx Improbable maybe but it did happen. Dick O'Kane was nearly killed by his own fish and many other boats that "disappeared" are thought to have been hit by their own straight runners (who didn't run straight). That indicates malfunction then. I would still assume that even so the ratio was very low....so still not impossible, but improbable.

greg_slith -> RE: US Submarine torpedoes (7/21/2009 9:57:45 PM)
The 80% dud rate also reflects the "malfunction" of the a) depth keeping, b) magnetic exploder and c) contact fuse. All worked in some form or another but still caused 80% duds.

Charbroiled -> RE: US Submarine torpedoes (7/21/2009 10:44:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shark7 quote: ORIGINAL: ecwgcx Improbable maybe but it did happen. Dick O'Kane was nearly killed by his own fish and many other boats that "disappeared" are thought to have been hit by their own straight runners (who didn't run straight). That indicates malfunction then. I would still assume that even so the ratio was very low....so still not impossible, but improbable. The Tang (Dick O'Kane's boat) and the Tullibee were both sunk from a circular torpedo run. The Taotog and the Whale both had torpedo malfunctions causing a circular run, but both boats were able to "go deep" to escape.

Mike Scholl -> RE: US Submarine torpedoes (7/22/2009 12:24:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jerrylt2008 I understand that US submarine torpedoes are in effect useless until early 1943. I guess you might get a lucky detonation occassionally but ussually it will miss or not explode. Since this is the case, should I send them out of port at all? I guess they would be good intelligence gatherers or the occasional supply run or troop deployment (limited). I am not trying to open up this can of worms again. I am asking if I should just leave them in port or send them out to spot ships and maybe act like coast watchers? Your old "S-Boats" did not use the Mk XIV torpedo, so their hit rates should be much better. I always try to upgrade their skippers to the best available and use them to create a "danger zone" or two for the Japs. And even if the more modern subs aren't very effective they still provide intel, re-supply, and the occasional success to annoy the enemy.

Hagleboz -> RE: US Submarine torpedoes (7/22/2009 2:16:03 AM)
[/quote] Your old "S-Boats" did not use the Mk XIV torpedo, so their hit rates should be much better. I always try to upgrade their skippers to the best available and use them to create a "danger zone" or two for the Japs. And even if the more modern subs aren't very effective they still provide intel, re-supply, and the occasional success to annoy the enemy. [/quote] Does WitP (and AE) actually model different torpedo for the Americans?

Feinder -> RE: US Submarine torpedoes (7/22/2009 2:18:22 AM)
quote: Does WitP (and AE) actually model different torpedo for the Americans? Yes. -F-

rtrapasso -> RE: US Submarine torpedoes (7/22/2009 2:30:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Charbroiled quote: ORIGINAL: Shark7 quote: ORIGINAL: ecwgcx Improbable maybe but it did happen. Dick O'Kane was nearly killed by his own fish and many other boats that "disappeared" are thought to have been hit by their own straight runners (who didn't run straight). That indicates malfunction then. I would still assume that even so the ratio was very low....so still not impossible, but improbable. The Tang (Dick O'Kane's boat) and the Tullibee were both sunk from a circular torpedo run. The Taotog and the Whale both had torpedo malfunctions causing a circular run, but both boats were able to "go deep" to escape. One other USN sub is thought (but not known) to have been sunk by its own torp (3 total)... Circular run could be caused by several factors including jammed torpedo rudder, defective gyro, etc. but there was also a design flaw that allowed a gyro control unit to be inserted backwards that would cause a circular run. [8\|]

John Lansford -> RE: US Submarine torpedoes (7/22/2009 10:28:04 AM)
Aggressive skippers in even the fleet boats will occasionally surface and use their deck gun against shipping, as well as fire their torpedoes. I've sunk dozens of ships in 1942 with US subs, and damaged a CVL, by having them base out of Darwin or Eniwetok and patrolling them around Truk, Saipan and Tarakan. The S class do not have the high dud torpedo rate so they will get a lot more hits in 1942 also.

tocaff -> RE: US Submarine torpedoes (7/22/2009 12:59:34 PM)
Never forget those subs can also lay mines, which can bag some unsuspecting ships and tie up others to clear the minefields.

BAR -> RE: US Submarine torpedoes (7/22/2009 2:32:59 PM)
I've been noticing quite an increase in deck gun activity starting about May '42 from my subs. Even occur during the daytime which seems suicidal. I have 4 based off Scerabaja, 3 just south of Rabaul and the rest doing their own thing and have 3-4 Sub attack combat reports a turn so they are definately worth putting to sea.

SuluSea -> RE: US Submarine torpedoes (7/22/2009 3:50:53 PM)
Playing against the AI in my last game I had what I felt pretty good success using the USN submarines in early '42. I sortied everyone of them out of Manila and used the S-boats north of the Phillipines and the fleet boats in the South China Sea to help suppliment Royal and Dutch Navy boats. I haven't played a PBEM As of yet because I'm waiting for AE but believe the fleet boats in early '42 will assist at the very least in giving you intel on the enemies shipping lanes.

Shark7 -> RE: US Submarine torpedoes (7/22/2009 3:51:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Charbroiled quote: ORIGINAL: Shark7 quote: ORIGINAL: ecwgcx Improbable maybe but it did happen. Dick O'Kane was nearly killed by his own fish and many other boats that "disappeared" are thought to have been hit by their own straight runners (who didn't run straight). That indicates malfunction then. I would still assume that even so the ratio was very low....so still not impossible, but improbable. The Tang (Dick O'Kane's boat) and the Tullibee were both sunk from a circular torpedo run. The Taotog and the Whale both had torpedo malfunctions causing a circular run, but both boats were able to "go deep" to escape. Yes, I'm not saying it couldn't happen. I say improbable because of the fact that you cite 4 instances of circular runs out of how many thousands of torpedoes fired? I say improbable because there is such a low chance of it happening. It can happen, and it if happens to you it is 100% bad, but in the overall picture you can reliably fire a straight running torpedo 99%+ of the time and it will run straight...or at least not in a complete circle.

rtrapasso -> RE: US Submarine torpedoes (7/22/2009 4:01:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shark7 quote: ORIGINAL: Charbroiled quote: ORIGINAL: Shark7 quote: ORIGINAL: ecwgcx Improbable maybe but it did happen. Dick O'Kane was nearly killed by his own fish and many other boats that "disappeared" are thought to have been hit by their own straight runners (who didn't run straight). That indicates malfunction then. I would still assume that even so the ratio was very low....so still not impossible, but improbable. The Tang (Dick O'Kane's boat) and the Tullibee were both sunk from a circular torpedo run. The Taotog and the Whale both had torpedo malfunctions causing a circular run, but both boats were able to "go deep" to escape. Yes, I'm not saying it couldn't happen. I say improbable because of the fact that you cite 4 instances of circular runs out of how many thousands of torpedoes fired? I say improbable because there is such a low chance of it happening. It can happen, and it if happens to you it is 100% bad, but in the overall picture you can reliably fire a straight running torpedo 99%+ of the time and it will run straight...or at least not in a complete circle. Actually, from what i've read, it was a lot more common than that... but the 4 quoted are the most famous incidents... it happened on the order of maybe 1% of firings, i am guessing from what i've read. EDIT: Usually, since the sub was moving, it wasn't around for the return trip of the torpedo, and just made for a lot of nervous/alarmed submariners.

PawnPower -> RE: US Submarine torpedoes (7/22/2009 4:15:55 PM)
Historically US subs probably destroyed more tonnage per sub, compared to the German U-Boats and the Japs. The Japanese did not use the subs to their full potential.

Charbroiled -> RE: US Submarine torpedoes (7/22/2009 4:35:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shark7 quote: ORIGINAL: Charbroiled quote: ORIGINAL: Shark7 quote: ORIGINAL: ecwgcx Improbable maybe but it did happen. Dick O'Kane was nearly killed by his own fish and many other boats that "disappeared" are thought to have been hit by their own straight runners (who didn't run straight). That indicates malfunction then. I would still assume that even so the ratio was very low....so still not impossible, but improbable. The Tang (Dick O'Kane's boat) and the Tullibee were both sunk from a circular torpedo run. The Taotog and the Whale both had torpedo malfunctions causing a circular run, but both boats were able to "go deep" to escape. Yes, I'm not saying it couldn't happen. I say improbable because of the fact that you cite 4 instances of circular runs out of how many thousands of torpedoes fired? I say improbable because there is such a low chance of it happening. It can happen, and it if happens to you it is 100% bad, but in the overall picture you can reliably fire a straight running torpedo 99%+ of the time and it will run straight...or at least not in a complete circle. Agreed...it was not a common occurance. However, it happen enough that the Sub Captains were aware of the possibilities of it happening and were concerned about it. As mentioned before, it was suspected that more subs were lost because of circular runs then those mentioned, but there wasn't any proof. In the case of the Tang, they were running on the surface, in the middle of a night action. They were in shallow water (180 feet I believe) and the torpedo was the last torpedo they had. They had previously damaged a tanker and were finishing it off using their last 2 torpedos so that they could go home. If they hadn't been in shallow water....in sight of shore, it is doubtful that the crew that escaped the Tang would have been picked up by the Japanese. In which case, it would have never been know what sunk the Tang. In the case of the Tullibee, there was 1 survivor that was thrown from the bridge by the explosion. He was picked up by the Japanese and was able confirm how the Tullibee sunk.

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