RE: The Japanese Economy (Full Version)

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Mike Solli -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/22/2009 4:31:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
1. MIRI IS A PROBLEM CHILD: You can't really expand the port, but it takes alot of baby TKs to keep the fuel moving and not spoiling. So far I am lifting to Cam Ranh, but a better idea might be to expand Brunei, and set a 3-4 TK CS Convoy to move it that one hex the entire game. Haven't figured it out yet, but Miri is a problem. I suspect Palembang will be too, the port is larger, but fuel is going to accumulate FAST with that huge refinery.


Well, you can keep the fuel/oil flowing but it'll take a lot of TKs. There are several things to consider. First, the port size of 2. You can load 1000 fuel/oil or 200 cargo/per phase and a total of 6250 per day. Max tonnage docked is 12k tons with a max size ship of 9k. Second is the output. Starting is 150 oil and 150 refinery with a max possible of 300 each. Let's look at all the possibilities:

1. 150/150 (oil/refinery)
2. 150/0 (shutting off the refinery)
3. 300/300
4. 300/0 (again, no refining)
5. 300/150 (repair all the oil but none of the refineries)

1. Daily production is 1350 fuel and 150 supply for a total of 1500 tons. You can load 4 days of stuff every day, potentially. 4 days worth is 5400 fuel and 600 supply. 5x Type-I TS (1250 cap) and escorts will empty 4.4 days production (minus fuel) in a day. Therefore you need one of these TFs thereto begin loading every 4 days. In addition, you'll need an xAK loading two out of six days (150 supply produced daily and 400 supply loaded daily). A Kiso-E looks good here (795 cargo space). With escort, it can load, say, 900 supply (6 days production) in 2 days.

2. If you shut off the refinery, you simplify things (no excess supply to worry about). Basially you produce 1500 oil a day and can load 6250 oil a day. That's 4.2 days production loaded each day. 5 of the small TKs will do it every 4-5 days. The down side of this is that the oil will most likely need to be shipped all the way to Honshu. That'll mean a hub to transfer the oil to larger TKs.

3. Basically, double #1. This means your TKs are loading 1 of every 2 days and your xAKs are loading 2 of every 3 days. With that overlap, you'll probably be loading something all the time just to make headway. Now you are producing 2700 fuel and 300 supply a day, so theoretically, you can load over 2 days of production every day. That would take some work to achieve with the small port. Oh yeah, that'll also take about 270k supply (+ ~30k produced during the 150 days to complete the repairs). Not sure that'll happen.

4. This doubles #2. Basically, 5 small TKs every 2-3 days. Oh yeah, plus 130k fuel and 150 days production of supply.

5. If you repair all of the oil and stick with 150 refineries, your production will be 1500 oil, 1350 fuel and 150 supply a day. You'll need 2.28 small TKs loading every day for the fuel and the supply will be the same as in #1. That'll take a lot of TKs. That'll cost you ~130k supply plus 150 days supply production.

What will I do? I suspect a variation on #1 and #3 (or maybe 1 and 5). I'll pull fuel and use the excess supply to increase the oil and possibly refineries. Not sure about the refineries though. That'll eliminate the need to have xAKs go there. The increase of oil centers would be less than 1 a week so pretty minor.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
2. HOKKAIDO IS TOO: So many resources, so few ports. That little base on the east coast, you have to really work to keep that empty. Same for Toyohara actually.


The secret to these two ports (Toyohara and Kushiro) is to pick destinations to offload relatively far from those ports. That way, you can have 4-5 TFs emptying those ports constantly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
3. HOARDERS IN SHIMONSEKI: Do not ever unload resources at Shimonsek. I learned that the hard way; now I have several convoys from Shimonseki to Osaka, just to keep the 999,999 pile of resources there from spoiling. Why won't it move by rail? Irritating.


Is this going to be fixed in patch 2?



Mike Solli -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/22/2009 4:50:54 PM)

Does anyone know the Capacity, Speed and Tonnage of the Std-C TK conversion?  I suspect they are going to be needed.



Mynok -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/22/2009 5:19:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Does anyone know the Capacity, Speed and Tonnage of the Std-C TK conversion?  I suspect they are going to be needed.


They convert to 2850 capacity, 2900 tonnage, and speed 12/10. Endurance is 5800/470.

Can you repost your spreadsheets?



Mike Solli -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/22/2009 5:35:54 PM)

Thanks Mynok. I think they are going to come in handy, especially for the level 3-4 ports. Three (plus escorts) to a lvl 3 port load in a day and 6 (plus escorts) can load in a day in a lvl 4 port.

Here's the spreadsheet. Remove the .txt. Yesterday was the first day in about a month that I finally fired up AE. RL really sucks sometimes. [8|]



n01487477 -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/22/2009 6:04:06 PM)

And a list of ships that will, but not just yet ...

[image]local://upfiles/19798/5D073402937344F08BA961204103907B.jpg[/image]



Mike Solli -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/22/2009 6:06:47 PM)

Yeah, only 17 of them.  I'm tempted to not use them at all.  Just hide them in the ports where they will convert and then convert in Jun 42.



n01487477 -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/22/2009 6:21:39 PM)

Well there are another 56 to come off the Slipsways, but many of them are more than a year out ... same story with the 90 Std-A's which will also convert (due from 6/42) + 17 Std-B's, 128 Std-d & 188 Std-e's, all which can convert at some stage... Just not at the beginning.

Cheers



anarchyintheuk -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/22/2009 6:26:31 PM)

Japan has a lot of naval support especially in naval hqs (the fix for them is on the patch 2 list, right?). Can't you just cram Miri and other bottlenecks with nav support?



Mike Solli -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/22/2009 7:34:06 PM)

Ah, very good idea anarchy. 



ChezDaJez -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/22/2009 7:48:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Thanks Mynok. I think they are going to come in handy, especially for the level 3-4 ports. Three (plus escorts) to a lvl 3 port load in a day and 6 (plus escorts) can load in a day in a lvl 4 port.

Here's the spreadsheet. Remove the .txt. Yesterday was the first day in about a month that I finally fired up AE. RL really sucks sometimes. [8|]


I must be doing something wrong. I can't download the attachment. It simply comes up in a new window with gobblygook. Suggestions?

Chez



Mike Solli -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/22/2009 9:18:26 PM)

Chez, try right clicking and then save target as....



BrucePowers -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/22/2009 10:35:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Yesterday was the first day in about a month that I finally fired up AE. RL really sucks sometimes.


Tell us about it.[sm=nono.gif]



erstad -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/23/2009 1:25:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Japan has a lot of naval support especially in naval hqs (the fix for them is on the patch 2 list, right?). Can't you just cram Miri and other bottlenecks with nav support?


Nav support doesn't help load resources, are we sure it helps with oil or fuel?



Venividivici10044 -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/23/2009 2:20:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


Here's the spreadsheet. Remove the .txt. Yesterday was the first day in about a month that I finally fired up AE. RL really sucks sometimes. [8|]


Does anyone have this problem; I try to download the file and it comes up in a browser window. I can't save the file. I tried right click and save as you suggested without success.

Thanks



USSAmerica -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/23/2009 2:51:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Venividivici10044

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


Here's the spreadsheet. Remove the .txt. Yesterday was the first day in about a month that I finally fired up AE. RL really sucks sometimes. [8|]


Does anyone have this problem; I try to download the file and it comes up in a browser window. I can't save the file. I tried right click and save as you suggested without success.

Thanks


I had to first click on the attachment link to open up the attachment window, then right click on the link in the attachment window and "Save link as...", pick a location and name the file AEShips.xls instead of a .txt file. It opened in Excel fine for me after that.



Venividivici10044 -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/23/2009 3:38:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America


quote:

ORIGINAL: Venividivici10044

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


Here's the spreadsheet. Remove the .txt. Yesterday was the first day in about a month that I finally fired up AE. RL really sucks sometimes. [8|]


Does anyone have this problem; I try to download the file and it comes up in a browser window. I can't save the file. I tried right click and save as you suggested without success.

Thanks


I had to first click on the attachment link to open up the attachment window, then right click on the link in the attachment window and "Save link as...", pick a location and name the file AEShips.xls instead of a .txt file. It opened in Excel fine for me after that.


I'm not sure why but this file will only save as an asp or htm on my machine. I try saving as an xls and it reads as corrupt. It may be my machine as a similar file on Japanese naval fighters saves the same way. If someone could shoot me an email with them attached I'd be honored.



ChezDaJez -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/23/2009 8:55:07 PM)

quote:

I had to first click on the attachment link to open up the attachment window, then right click on the link in the attachment window and "Save link as...", pick a location and name the file AEShips.xls instead of a .txt file. It opened in Excel fine for me after that.


Thanks. That worked.

Chez



Venividivici10044 -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/24/2009 12:34:30 AM)

A good avatar deserves another; you have inspired!



ny59giants -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/24/2009 2:42:36 AM)

How many engineers and/or engineer vehicles would it take to get the port at Miri 2(0) to go up to a 3(0)?? How long would it take??  Is it cost effective??



stldiver -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/24/2009 4:05:47 AM)

I did it with one construction unit in about a month, it had a couple of vehicles, it is worth it to get to 3. but by that time I had other bases pulling more fuel that Miri becomes back water. Your call but its probably worth it to go to three. The tankers that pull 1250 are the best. But as I said I don't even pull there anymore at the moment with so many other good sources and so few ships!



Hanzberger -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/25/2009 3:15:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Thanks Mynok. I think they are going to come in handy, especially for the level 3-4 ports. Three (plus escorts) to a lvl 3 port load in a day and 6 (plus escorts) can load in a day in a lvl 4 port.

Here's the spreadsheet. Remove the .txt. Yesterday was the first day in about a month that I finally fired up AE. RL really sucks sometimes. [8|]


I must be doing something wrong. I can't download the attachment. It simply comes up in a new window with gobblygook. Suggestions?

Chez

left click to bring up the window then
right click to dl, rename it something and use the extention .xls. be sure to change the bottom of the dl screen from txt files to all files right below where you rename it.



Hanzberger -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/25/2009 3:18:23 PM)

OH yea, Mike nice spreadsheet thanks for sharing [&o]



d0mbo -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/25/2009 7:41:49 PM)

there's a thread on what to do the first allied turns.

considering playing the allies is a cakewalk compared to playing the japanese (like real men do) is there some sort of thread on what are considered to be good things to do (tm) in the first 3 turns?



ChezDaJez -> RE: The Japanese Economy (10/25/2009 9:28:56 PM)

Thanks. I had finally figured it out with the help of USS America.

It was the renaming with .xls that I was screwing up on.

Chez



CMDRMCTOAST -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/2/2009 7:56:47 PM)

bump..



FatR -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/4/2009 1:52:06 PM)

   A question: is eliminating J2M and its upgrades from research in favor of getting N1K/late A6M sooner worth it? In real life this plane was a mistake, and in the game it comes on the same month as N1K, but isn't as good. Yes, it has way better climb, but its maneurability at high altitudes is actually inferior, and its slight speed advantage  comes at the price of range and armament. Moreover, its upgrades, although they come relatively early, are unimpressive. N1K2 comes way too late, but is an all-around improvement. So, do you get some J2M-exclusive units, that make keeping it necessary, and can you still get them, if you just research original J2M1, but not its upgrades?

   And another question: do you actually have any factories that make Alf at the beginning of the game and if yes, where they are? WitP Tracker sure cannot find any.



n01487477 -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/4/2009 2:02:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatR

   A question: is eliminating J2M and its upgrades from research in favor of getting N1K/late A6M sooner worth it? In real life this plane was a mistake, and in the game it comes on the same month as N1K, but isn't as good. Yes, it has way better climb, but its maneurability at high altitudes is actually inferior, and its slight speed advantage  comes at the price of range and armament. Moreover, its upgrades, although they come relatively early, are unimpressive. N1K2 comes way too late, but is an all-around improvement. So, do you get some J2M-exclusive units, that make keeping it necessary, and can you still get them, if you just research original J2M1, but not its upgrades?

You get one group of 36 * J2M3, the J2M2 upgrades to the J2M3. There are 2 units available to upgrade to the J2M2, and 4 groups including the delayed that upgrade to the J2M3 (3*36 + 1*27)planes. All this info is avail in Tracker.
quote:


   And another question: do you actually have any factories that make Alf at the beginning of the game and if yes, where they are? WitP Tracker sure cannot find any.

There are none Tracker is correct.



FatR -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/4/2009 2:34:35 PM)

   Well, can you skip researching J2M2 and go straight to J2M3 then? Is it possible to skip upgrades in general? For example A6M8 and A7M2 come within one month of each other, assuming you managed to last that long, but second is clearly superior, can you just concentrate on A7M2?



n01487477 -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/4/2009 2:43:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatR
Well, can you skip researching J2M2 and go straight to J2M3 then? Is it possible to skip upgrades in general? For example A6M8 and A7M2 come within one month of each other, assuming you managed to last that long, but second is clearly superior, can you just concentrate on A7M2?

Sure can, but they are a long way out ... don't expect to see any miracles with your R&D for some time. There was a thread some time back where I and others debated the issue extensively.

The other thing to note is that only CV fighter groups upgrade to the A7M2, more groups upgrade to the A6M8 Just check in the Airgroups Panel ... special filter "Upgrade to"



PaxMondo -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/5/2009 3:42:29 AM)

Are the upgrade paths for the groups fixed or is there some latitude for the player?  Let's say I want to move an A6M2 group to the A6M3, even though it will make it no longer carrier capable, but I want/need the better plane earlier.



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