RE: The Japanese Economy (Full Version)

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Mynok -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/5/2009 4:55:16 AM)


If PDU is on, yes.



PaxMondo -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/5/2009 5:33:37 AM)

OK, thought so, but haven't gotten that deep yet.



n01487477 -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/5/2009 8:27:06 AM)

Even with PDU on, there are only a number of upgrades available and these are defined in the editor by the scenario designer ... 



SqzMyLemon -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/5/2009 8:59:43 AM)

Are you crazy if you look forward to the next supply taskforce you have to create for the Japanese economy? Now that I've figured out how to create "continuous supply" taskforces I'm feeling a lot better and actually enjoying creating them. That doesn't mean I still won't run the Japanese economy into the ground though [:)]



SqzMyLemon -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/5/2009 9:18:24 AM)

I thought about starting a new thread to ask this question, but this is the place to be for finding out about running the Japanese war economy [8D]

When expanding the Japanese economy, is it better to focus on Oil/Fuel with more oil producing/refining capabilities, or production upgrades to HI/LI to create more HI points and supplies? I anticipate bringing in oil/fuel assets from the conquests in the DEI obviously providing I got it home, but just looking at my early supply situation that seems to be where I see possible short comings in the future. I've just started a PBEM game as the Japanese, so interested in seeing what others may suggest. My first inclination is HI/LI and some small refining upgrades to smaller plants. Crazy?

Thanks in advance, I have to say I am learning tons from the forum and the collective knowledge of everyone willing to share their thoughts and expertise. The learning curve is getting a little smaller everyday. A great group of people here!



n01487477 -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/5/2009 9:48:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I thought about starting a new thread to ask this question, but this is the place to be for finding out about running the Japanese war economy [8D]

When expanding the Japanese economy, is it better to focus on Oil/Fuel with more oil producing/refining capabilities, or production upgrades to HI/LI to create more HI points and supplies? I anticipate bringing in oil/fuel assets from the conquests in the DEI obviously providing I got it home, but just looking at my early supply situation that seems to be where I see possible short comings in the future. I've just started a PBEM game as the Japanese, so interested in seeing what others may suggest. My first inclination is HI/LI and some small refining upgrades to smaller plants. Crazy?

Thanks in advance, I have to say I am learning tons from the forum and the collective knowledge of everyone willing to share their thoughts and expertise. The learning curve is getting a little smaller everyday. A great group of people here!

Not crazy at all, although I'd be neglecting any repairs or expansion into LI. HI gives you more bang for the buck so to speak. I'd look into increasing the smaller HI plants in Japan and then some other strategically placed where there is enough fuel production and resources to cover the production.

I had the total production figures (potential on map - SRA) for the GC, but it seems to have been misplaced at the moment. Obviously fuel production is also of importance, but that can be normalised once the SRA is captured - but you should check out how much Oil/Fuel production capacity exists on map, and not go beyond that for HI expansion.

Luckily the GC is very easy to manage HI production as you are already in surplus, even with Pilot training.

In the beginning, I tend to deal with some very small changes in HI/ORef, the planes / engines etc and around Feb start looking at my other Ind. expansion. Given that I haven't already wasted too many supplies. This game is all about supplies/logistics, the Allies have a load, we (JFB's) don't & must use them sparingly. Even some of the game mechanics about the 20K threshold, poses more problems for the Japanese. "You can't always get what you want", Jagger knew that .. make note of what you need and can achieve within the economic framework you develop.

There isn't one way to skin a cat ... make small changes, take note of the numbers in game / tracker / staff and plan where you want to be in 12 months time. This game isn't about quick fixes or solutions in some ways and economic policies take time to implement and reap the rewards.

Good Luck. BTW - I haven't started a game yet, cause I'm still programming Tracker and playing WITP, but I know the process well enough to suggest looking at Mike Solli's posts / AAR until I get a game going [;)]



erstad -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/5/2009 2:14:59 PM)

quote:

When expanding the Japanese economy, is it better to focus on Oil/Fuel with more oil producing/refining capabilities, or production upgrades to HI/LI to create more HI points and supplies?


I guess I wouldn't expand either HI or LI. Especially early before you know how much oil/resources you'll capture intact. If you get to the point where you're actually running a resource surplus (I'm not there yet....) you might consider some expansion.

In my PBEM I'm in 6/42, and have generally had the HI for what I needed so far. I haven't expanded any HI. (Well, I guess I did double a 50 HI factory in Muoran early on, but if I were to start over I wouldn't do that).



n01487477 -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/5/2009 2:31:24 PM)

Erstad,
I guess it depends on your prodution needs, I agree with you, determining Oil/Fuel is very important, but I'm always looking for more supplies cause they drive the war effort.

--Damian--



Mike Solli -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/5/2009 3:58:25 PM)

I agree with erstad and Damian.  Be very cautious with HI increases, especially early on.  You're going to expand your airframe and engine facilities.  After they are completely expanded, take a look at your HI surplus.  If your HI surplus is at least 1000 per day, you're good.  That 20k bite from the the pilot training program will eat up most of that.  Also note that in 1943(?) your pilot training program expands quite a bit so your 1st of the month bite will increase quite dramatically.  You may need more HI factories, but they're a worthless waste of supply if you don't have enough resources/fuel to feed them.



FatR -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/6/2009 9:59:08 PM)

Yet another question: I've expanded my facilities for key planes and switched the main Ki-27 plant to Ki-43 at the beginning of the game. Repair is ON everywhere. Now it is December 26, and factories do not show any signs of actual expansion - all added production potential still counts as "damaged". Did I forgot something?



erstad -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/6/2009 10:20:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatR

Yet another question: I've expanded my facilities for key planes and switched the main Ki-27 plant to Ki-43 at the beginning of the game. Repair is ON everywhere. Now it is December 26, and factories do not show any signs of actual expansion - all added production potential still counts as "damaged". Did I forgot something?


In order repairs to take place, there needs to be 10,000 supplies in the hex. A number of factory hexes won't have that normally. You can use the base supply feature to get more supply into the hex. (go into the base screen, next to the required supply entry are click arrows that allow you to increase the amount of supply the base is requesting. Be aware it keeps sucking supply, so be careful about overshooting too much)



FatR -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/6/2009 10:47:42 PM)

    Some of factory hexes have this much supply, at least currently. What is the normal speed of repairs?

EDIT: Weird, but after the hex that was short on supply got enough of it, repairs started at all factories at once. Oh, well. Thankfully, 19-days delay is not exactly fatal.



n01487477 -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/7/2009 12:15:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatR

Yet another question: I've expanded my facilities for key planes and switched the main Ki-27 plant to Ki-43 at the beginning of the game. Repair is ON everywhere. Now it is December 26, and factories do not show any signs of actual expansion - all added production potential still counts as "damaged". Did I forgot something?

No WAD .. these planes are R&D and the factories take a long time to repair. The ki-43 comes in 11/42. There is a relationship between size of the factory R&D and repair time as well as how long away the R&D is.



Mac Linehan -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/8/2009 2:59:33 AM)

Hi Xargun -

I wanted to get some hands on experience with the Japanese economy (on a small scale), using the Thousand Mile War Scn. Paramushiro Jima (port 5) was cleared of all units and given 10 Industry, 200 Resource and two fuel points. After three test runs (with variations), the results were the same - HI uses 15 Resource points (as opposed to the rule book's 20) and two fuel points to create two Heavy industry and two Supply points. A similar test with Light Industry showed that each Light Industry required 20 Resource points instead of the 15 stated in the rule book to generate one Supply point.

I then ran tests on airframe, engine, weapons and vehicle factories - all worked as specified in the manual.

While all this required some modification with the editor, it was well worth the effort; the math is straightforward - I now have a clear picture of how the basics work.

Has anyone else done testing or reached a different conclusion? Thoughts?

Mac




n01487477 -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/8/2009 3:08:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan

Hi Xargun -

I wanted to get some hands on experience with the Japanese economy (on a small scale), using the Thousand Mile War Scn. Paramushiro Jima (port 5) was cleared of all units and given 10 Industry, 200 Resource and two fuel points. After three test runs (with variations), the results were the same - HI uses 15 Resource points (as opposed to the rule book's 20) and two fuel points to create two Heavy industry and two Supply points. A similar test with Light Industry showed that each Light Industry required 20 Resource points instead of the 15 stated in the rule book to generate one Supply point.

I then ran tests on airframe, engine, weapons and vehicle factories - all worked as specified in the manual.

While all this required some modification with the editor, it was well worth the effort; the math is straightforward - I now have a clear picture of how the basics work.

Has anyone else done testing or reached a different conclusion? Thoughts?

Mac

Yes, I've done the tests and I find that the results are the same as the rule book. Strange things happen when you use small scenario's for the tests (which were not intended for production). I use a test-bed moulded from the GC (resize the map and take everything out). Also remember the numbers for the inputs can be changed from the editor.



n01487477 -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/8/2009 3:18:14 AM)

Mac, found the reason why ... The 1000 mile scenario has the initial inputs and outputs wrong ... so your test is completely true for that scenario but completely invalid for the GC ... check out the device Tab in the editor !!!



Mac Linehan -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/8/2009 4:24:02 AM)

Damian -

Thank you for your prompt reply and clarification. I appreciate all the work that you and others have put into the Tracker; without it the game would be difficult to play.

Mac



findmeifyoucan -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/13/2009 2:39:33 AM)

Yeah, and you can never have too many Kates. I noticed that but you can't speed up production too much on that as much as I would love to be producing 100 of those a month. LOL



Ghertz -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/13/2009 11:54:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanzberger

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Thanks Mynok. I think they are going to come in handy, especially for the level 3-4 ports. Three (plus escorts) to a lvl 3 port load in a day and 6 (plus escorts) can load in a day in a lvl 4 port.

Here's the spreadsheet. Remove the .txt. Yesterday was the first day in about a month that I finally fired up AE. RL really sucks sometimes. [8|]


I must be doing something wrong. I can't download the attachment. It simply comes up in a new window with gobblygook. Suggestions?

Chez

left click to bring up the window then
right click to dl, rename it something and use the extention .xls. be sure to change the bottom of the dl screen from txt files to all files right below where you rename it.

This worked! Thank you.



Miller -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/14/2009 1:33:50 PM)

I think 30-40 Kates (and Vals) a month is sufficient. After all you wont be having large carrier battles every month......

For what its worth, I'm in July 42 and my production per month is as follows:

Zeros 120
Army bombers combined (Sally/Helen/Lilly) 100
Betty/Nell 100
Oscar 80
Kate 40
Val 30

One bottleneck is the Nakajima Ha-35 engine, you really need to expand production of this, I am turning out roughly 400 a month and I still cannot keep up with demand.



PaxMondo -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/14/2009 1:55:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

I think 30-40 Kates (and Vals) a month is sufficient. After all you wont be having large carrier battles every month......

For what its worth, I'm in July 42 and my production per month is as follows:

Zeros 120
Army bombers combined (Sally/Helen/Lilly) 100
Betty/Nell 100
Oscar 80
Kate 40
Val 30

One bottleneck is the Nakajima Ha-35 engine, you really need to expand production of this, I am turning out roughly 400 a month and I still cannot keep up with demand.

I'm a little (ok, more than a little in general, but just a little specifically here) confused about this. Zero+Oscar = 200 engines/month. What else would you be building that is using the Nak Ha-35? It's only used on fighters I think.



seydlitz_slith -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/14/2009 2:03:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I'm a little (ok, more than a little in general, but just a little specifically here) confused about this. Zero+Oscar = 200 engines/month. What else would you be building that is using the Nak Ha-35? It's only used on fighters I think.



Also used by the B5N2 Kate, C5M2 Babs, Ki-48 Lily, and the Thalia.




Miller -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/14/2009 3:17:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: seydlitz


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I'm a little (ok, more than a little in general, but just a little specifically here) confused about this. Zero+Oscar = 200 engines/month. What else would you be building that is using the Nak Ha-35? It's only used on fighters I think.



Also used by the B5N2 Kate, C5M2 Babs, Ki-48 Lily, and the Thalia.




And the Tojo and A6M3 Zero



PaxMondo -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/14/2009 8:54:59 PM)

Ah, the Kate and Lilly too.  So the Kate would add 40 and the Lilly could be 100 more easy.  Ok, now my math is closer to the 400 number and it makes sense.

Thanks.



BigBadWolf -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/20/2009 6:30:41 AM)

Hey guys, I bumped at this topic down at the bottom of the page, so I thought I'd put it here. [sm=00000436.gif]



findmeifyoucan -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/21/2009 3:44:16 PM)

I am just curious about your analysis if the Japanese production factories/damaged and my question is this from turn 1 or from one of your games a few turns in?

Also would this be the same analyses for Scenerio 2. I would assume nothing would change production wise from Scen 1 to Scen 2?

Tony



findmeifyoucan -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/21/2009 4:36:15 PM)

I agree with you on the xAK's with 170 and 795 capacity. I think they would be very useful to be converted as PB's to protect the vital merchant shipping pipelines of the Japanese. I think they are pretty much useless for doing anything else. LOL



MaraTheFinn -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/23/2009 1:08:32 PM)

It is February 1942 and Gifu and Meabashi haven't converted to anything. I did change Ida and Nate to better ones but no progres yet. If only ports transfer resources, fuel etc. it might be so that my factories never recover. Gifu and Maebashi are inland with no port. So my advice is that don't change Gifu or Maebashi to anything. Otherwise you lose even that lousy production.



n01487477 -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/23/2009 1:13:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MaraTheFinn

It is February 1942 and Gifu and Meabashi haven't converted to anything. I did change Ida and Nate to better ones but no progres yet. If only ports transfer resources, fuel etc. it might be so that my factories never recover. Gifu and Maebashi are inland with no port. So my advice is that don't change Gifu or Maebashi to anything. Otherwise you lose even that lousy production.

You can draw supplies there ... factories ( apart from HI/LI ) don't use fuel or resources ... more info needed here I think ...



findmeifyoucan -> RE: The Japanese Economy (11/23/2009 3:06:38 PM)

Yeah, use your base to draw supplies there. You can also try air lifting supplies. The way I understand it you have to have supply actually in the hex the factory is located to get things going. Which I think is kind of silly. It should be enough to have supply close by in the region. To me it doesn't look like much supply is railed in where it is needed automatically and you have to do it manually. I guess the same old rule applies. If you want things done right then do it yourself. :-)))



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