RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (Full Version)

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Lützow -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (8/16/2009 12:17:16 PM)

Histwar looks like E:TW with subpar graphics.



Hartford688 -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (8/16/2009 12:33:13 PM)

If all that matters to you are graphics, then yes.

If you read up on what it aims to achieve, then gameplaywise, no.



Lützow -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (8/16/2009 5:06:18 PM)

Actually visuals are the least important part to me and I emphasize rather on spreadsheets, statistics and turnbased gameplay. However, I still prefer counters or sprites over dated 3D though.

Anyway, by regarding screenshots I got the impression, Histwar will become another simplistic realtime title from Battlefront. Tell me I'm wrong in my assumptions and I may give it a shot, considering BF releases a demo.



Hartford688 -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (8/16/2009 5:16:04 PM)

Fair enough.

I agree, the problem seemed a bit that it was a very small team (one?) and took so long to finish that even if the graphics were initially good, they have aged.

The gameplay sounds as if it could be good; JMM looks to have made a serious attempt to make it as realistic as possible. But I agree we'll need to wait for the demo to see if this ambitious project delivers. Here's hoping though![sm=innocent0001.gif]



Hertston -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (8/16/2009 5:34:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

Anyway, by regarding screenshots I got the impression, Histwar will become another simplistic realtime title from Battlefront. Tell me I'm wrong in my assumptions and I may give it a shot, considering BF releases a demo.


The blurb looks rather promising. In particular;

quote:

HistWar: Les Grognards is one of the first - if not the first - FPC (First Person commander) game, and allows you to simulate almost all the battles of the Empire between 1805-1814.

HistWar: Les Grognards has three game modes: single player, play by email (PBEM), and multiplayer (up to 8 players). In single player, a player can choose to fight for one of the two armies, can choose to play both armies (for example for training purposes), and there is also a mode where both opponents are under AI control fighting each other. It gets better: in this last mode the player can command units as a colonel in first person mode. He is then in the middle of the conflict without knowing all the parameters.


That doesn't sound like E:TW. PBEM?! First person mode? "Without knowing all the parameters"? Can't wait to give this one a try.





Prince of Eckmühl -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (8/16/2009 9:00:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hartford688

Fair enough.

I agree, the problem seemed a bit that it was a very small team (one?) and took so long to finish that even if the graphics were initially good, they have aged.

The gameplay sounds as if it could be good; JMM looks to have made a serious attempt to make it as realistic as possible. But I agree we'll need to wait for the demo to see if this ambitious project delivers. Here's hoping though![sm=innocent0001.gif]


Has anyone mentioned that this isn't JMM's first game?

Matrix published the first one, BTW:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/lagrandearmeeatausterlitz/review.html

IIRC, there was a plan to patch it to version 2.0 and make it playable.

Eventually, La Grande Armee at Austerlitz disappeared from the Matrix catalog and it's forums.

"Histwar" dropped the plan to patch the game in favor of a whole new game, Les Grognards.

I'm unsure as to which of those last two events came first.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)



Lützow -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (8/17/2009 5:19:26 PM)

Oh well.

According to wargamer board, BF will use DRM for Histwar. Not willing to support this, so no purchase from me.



pvthudson01 -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (8/17/2009 7:36:36 PM)

Im still looking at Hist War and trying to figure out how it plays. Real time? Combat Mission style? Turn based?



anklrd -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (10/8/2009 7:53:06 AM)

FPC (First Person commander)
[;)]



Alan Sharif -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (10/8/2009 9:04:07 AM)

I think it will be much like a Napoleonic version of the two Take Command titles, which I guess you may not be familier with. Two of the best wargames ever,IMO, so my hopes for Les Grodnards are very high indeed. You might also like to look at Matrix' s Campaigns on the Danube 1805 - 1809, which you can play together with minatures if you wish. Once it was patched it was a great little game. Well worth a look I think.



killroyishere -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (10/8/2009 4:58:52 PM)

Histwar is just real time battles ala TW or Legion Arena and no strategic game. It's just scenarios of famous battles of the past not even a random battle generator included. It's like half a game or less really. You might just as well edit your own scenarios out of M2TW or ETW editors.



Hertston -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (10/8/2009 5:36:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

Histwar is just real time battles ala TW or Legion Arena and no strategic game. It's just scenarios of famous battles of the past not even a random battle generator included. It's like half a game or less really. You might just as well edit your own scenarios out of M2TW or ETW editors.


Depends how well it's done. If it provides a decent number of historical scenarios that play out historically in terms of tactics, and does them well, I won't give a toss about a 'strategic game' or 'random battle generator', both are totally pointless IMHO. I loved the Take Command games and they didn't have either, yet nobody considers them 'half a game or less'.



jackx -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (10/8/2009 6:01:27 PM)

TC may not have a "random" battle generator, but it does have open play...  that said, if scenario modding is easy and/or many scenarios and variants are provided with the game, it's a non-issue anyways.



Hertston -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (10/8/2009 8:02:11 PM)

On the 'random generator' thing, I think the point is that neither Napoleonic or ACW battles were 'random'. It's certainly true that some were unexpected and a great many were not planned, but within a half-way decent wargame you can only really simulate history with a 'campaign' layer (rather than a 'strategic game'). The best exsmple I can think of are the HPS ACW and Napoleonics series which do it very well; while you might well end up not fighting 'Gettysburg' where it was historically fought you are fighting it on 'actual' terrain where it might have been fought had Meade and Lee made the decisions you and your opponent have made.

With that approach, though, you can only realistically expect one campaign. Which might well be a good game, but not IMHO necessarily better than lots of interesting historical scenarios across the era. Both would be better than a 'strategic' game with 'random' battles on fake terrain that have little resemblance to anything Napoleonic at all.

Anyway, hopefully they might actually release it soon so we can find out. They made that announcement in August, but it seems to have slipped back into vapourware land again. [:(]



killroyishere -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (10/9/2009 7:29:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jackx

TC may not have a "random" battle generator, but it does have open play...  that said, if scenario modding is easy and/or many scenarios and variants are provided with the game, it's a non-issue anyways.


Exactly and each open battle generated was random in setup and positioning so in essense it was a random battle generator. Plus the strategic goals were in different positions every battle thus making everything change each battle. The only things that remained the same were the OOB's and that is fine. Plus I will bet the speed of play is fast compared to TC which has the perfect game speed for real time play. Only Sid Meier's Civil War battles comes close to the TC series as most other rts games real time isn't realistic and is way too fast.



Hertston -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (10/9/2009 9:47:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

Plus I will bet the speed of play is fast compared to TC which has the perfect game speed for real time play. Only Sid Meier's Civil War battles comes close to the TC series as most other rts games real time isn't realistic and is way too fast.


It's in real time, meaning just that; 1 hour = 1 hour. I assume there will be some sort of accelerate time feature. It's a wargame, not a kiddie-click RTS.

quote:

Histwar™: Les Grognards comes complete with ten major historical battles (Haslach, Austerlitz, Eylau, Friedland, Campaign of Eckmul, Wagram, Moscowa (Borodino), Berezina, Hanau, La Rothière) as well as powerful game editors to create new Maps, Orders of Battle and Unit Doctrines (AI scripting) so you can create your own units, battles, even uniforms!


C'mon. I know I'm starting to sound like a commercial and all, but by what concievable standard is that 'half a game or less'?

Or how about

quote:

Histwar™: Les Grognards can be either played against the computer (solo), or Multi-player via LAN or Internet (TCP/IP) with up to 6 players divided into 2 sides with each player controlling either all or a part of an Army. Play by e-mail (PBEM) with 15 minute game sequences (turns) is also supported.


That's wargaming wet-dream stuff! If it all works, of course.



Sarge -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (10/9/2009 10:22:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

Has anyone mentioned that this isn't JMM's first game?

Matrix published the first one, BTW:



La Grande Armee was my first Matrix purchase , I held a grudge after that train wreck for sometime as you can see from my register date ………………[:D]

Out of the box the game was unplayable , IIRC it was Matrix first release ?



quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

Oh well.

According to wargamer board, BF will use DRM for Histwar. Not willing to support this, so no purchase from me.


Ditto



jackx -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (10/10/2009 9:38:52 AM)

The MP features sound great, but don't really offer any innovative way of dealing with the fact that with MP, you're stuck in real-time, meaning large games will take forever, with hours of marching and maybe minor skirmishing playing out at a crawl, or taking weeks to resolve in 15-minute PBEM snippets.
Maybe I'm a bit pessimistic when it comes to this, but when you consider that the average player isn't going to be a teenager/early-20's guy with too much free time on his hands, this could be a considerable obstacle to MP play.



Prince of Eckmühl -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (10/10/2009 4:27:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

La Grande Armee was my first Matrix purchase , I held a grudge after that train wreck for sometime as you can see from my register date ………………[:D]

Out of the box the game was unplayable , IIRC it was Matrix first release ?


Sorta got off on the wrong foot, didn't they?

I was encouraged when BF agreed to publish this second game, because I thought that they'd hold the developer's feet to the fire regarding QA. But, when one considers the state in which CMSF first emerged (and was sold), I'm not so sure. Thank goodness for demos!

PoE (aka ivanmoe)



Ron -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (10/10/2009 5:51:06 PM)

A considerable amount of misinformation, prejudice and bias here imo. Anyone remotely interested in Napoleonics, as evidenced at BF forums, would be uncontrollably salivating at what's being developed, if it all works as advertised(!). The proposed design and feature list is outlined for all to see if they care to look into it, the same for gameplay, gamespeed and editors etc. It may be a flop like the earlier incarnation Matrix released and then dropped, who knows; however, BF always releases demos so no one can feel they 'wasted' their money or were shortchanged.



JRodda -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (10/10/2009 5:58:46 PM)

Not really related to miniatures, but I just loved the Strategy & Tactics magazine double Napoleonic game; Eylau and Dresden.  As the SPI editorial staff noted, these two battles showcased very well the strengths and weaknesses of the Napoleonic war machine.  Wish someone would do these for the PC. 



Hertston -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (10/10/2009 6:45:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jackx

The MP features sound great, but don't really offer any innovative way of dealing with the fact that with MP, you're stuck in real-time, meaning large games will take forever, with hours of marching and maybe minor skirmishing playing out at a crawl, or taking weeks to resolve in 15-minute PBEM snippets.


Regarding RT there is no need for an 'innovative' solution, as there is a perfectly satisfactory standard one; each player sets the fastest speed they are willing to play at, and varies it as necessary through the game. The game is played at the slowest of the selected speeds.

With PBEM I don't see the problem at all. Fifteen minute turns translates as, what, forty per game tops? And remember it's supposed to be played from the commander's perspective. I don't know how that will work out in practice, but I assume it means you will be issuing a limited number of orders to subordinate commanders every turn except the first (with, presumably, suitable orders delays); at least that's how it's usually done. It's not much of a 'FPC' game if you are controlling every regiment, battery and squadron each turn.



jackx -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (10/11/2009 8:07:35 AM)

As I said I'm probably too pessimistic, and a general dislike for the napoleonic period (due to it getting all the attention at the expense of everything else between 1648 and 1848, as well as giving rise to way too many nationalistic interpretations and stereotypes) doesn't help either...
That's not the game's fault, though, and as stated above by Ron, if it delivers as advertised, I'll be excited to play...



1NWCG -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (10/12/2009 6:46:47 PM)

I personally have enjoyed Napoleonics from the Talonsoft days all the way up to the current with CoG:EE & the soon to be Les Grognards.  In managing two Napoleonics clubs, (both in my signature so if you are interested in a gaming community click the links), it has sometimes been hard to find good games to consider for use.  But with Matrix developing more it has been easy.

HPS is good and all, but it is falling behind in some ways on what is being developed.....but I have enjoyed the mass amounts of MODS out there by loyal followers, that have broadened the game play options....

I think as the 200th celebrations continue we will only see more games being developed and the period seems to be becoming more popular too. [8D]



V22 Osprey -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (10/13/2009 2:30:44 AM)

Campaign Series engine converted to Napoleonic and Civil War is the answer.The JTCS engine is versatile(a modern wars carnation is in the works as we speak) enough that we could make a Napoleonic and Civil War modification.CS already has a Facing model, direct and indirect fire, ranges.....everything you need to make a perfect Napoleonic and Civil War game.Imagine a Civil War game with an actual map editor!If modern wars can be done, I think Nap. and CW can be done as well.



anklrd -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (10/14/2009 9:38:42 AM)

Great club for Napoleonic Era i have to admin, thnks for informing.

I think HW:LG ll be the only game for Napoleonic Addicts soon when its released as it has both MP(up to 4-4) and pbem options available.


quote:

ORIGINAL: 1NWCG

I personally have enjoyed Napoleonics from the Talonsoft days all the way up to the current with CoG:EE & the soon to be Les Grognards. In managing two Napoleonics clubs, (both in my signature so if you are interested in a gaming community click the links), it has sometimes been hard to find good games to consider for use. But with Matrix developing more it has been easy.

HPS is good and all, but it is falling behind in some ways on what is being developed.....but I have enjoyed the mass amounts of MODS out there by loyal followers, that have broadened the game play options....

I think as the 200th celebrations continue we will only see more games being developed and the period seems to be becoming more popular too. [8D]




killroyishere -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (10/14/2009 1:15:11 PM)

quote:

It's in real time, meaning just that; 1 hour = 1 hour.


And where do you get this official information from? Link please.



Hertston -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (10/14/2009 3:26:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: killroyishere
And where do you get this official information from? Link please.


Gamezone

quote:

Variable speed play from real time 1 minute = 1 minute to accelerated 10x time where 6 seconds of gametime = 1 minute of simulated time. PBEM mode played in 15 minute turns.


I assume you are happy to accept "1 minute = 1 minute" equates to "1 hour = 1 hour"




V22 Osprey -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (10/15/2009 12:08:06 AM)

HistWar is not going to stand a chance against Napoleon Total War.I mean, I have to agree that from the similar looking interface, it looks like Total War with sucky graphics.The CMx1 looking engine variant just doesn't do the game justice.Would've been better to use a CMx2 variant.One thing it does have though, is it's editors.



Hertston -> RE: Best Napoleonic era game that brings back miniature gaming feeling? (10/15/2009 12:25:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey
HistWar is not going to stand a chance against Napoleon Total War.I mean, I have to agree that from the similar looking interface, it looks like Total War with sucky graphics.The CMx1 looking engine variant just doesn't do the game justice.Would've been better to use a CMx2 variant.One thing it does have though, is it's editors.


I just don't get this. Does the description I linked to above sound ANYTHING like the TW series? In terms of sales of course it won't compete; different market and a much more low profile publisher. This game I want, N:TW I don't give a rat's a**e about, any more than I did Empire. One is a wargame, the other isn't.



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