RE: HOI3 (Full Version)

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RyanCrierie -> RE: HOI3 (3/30/2010 6:27:52 PM)

HOI3 Patch 1.04
Road To War 1936 Scenario
1920x1080 60 Hz
Core 2 Quad Q6600; 8 GB RAM, Geforce 8800 GTS

It takes about 4-5 seconds for each day in January 1936. By that average, it takes 150 seconds (2.5 minutes) for a 30-day month to pass. That comes out to 1800 seconds (30 minutes) for a year to pass.

1936-1939 is three years. That's 1.5 hours of doing nothing but staring at the screen as the US waiting for war to break out.

HOI3 is utterly unplayable, period. While waiting 30 minutes for a year to pass may be acceptable to some younger masochoists who have a lot of time, I'm no longer the person I was in 2002; I'm older now, and I don't want to spend time twiddling my thumbs.

For this reason, I just can't play Silent Hunter 3 and 4 anymore -- even a simple war patrol in SH4 with a S-Boat out of the phillipines takes several hours, due to the absolutely horrid time compression.



bairdlander2 -> RE: HOI3 (3/31/2010 1:48:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RyanCrierie

HOI3 Patch 1.04
Road To War 1936 Scenario
1920x1080 60 Hz
Core 2 Quad Q6600; 8 GB RAM, Geforce 8800 GTS



1936-1939 is three years. That's 1.5 hours of doing nothing but staring at the screen as the US waiting for war to break out.

HOI3 is utterly unplayable, period. While waiting 30 minutes for a year to pass may be acceptable to some younger masochoists

Why not start the 1941 scenario,where USA is at war if you dont want to wait.Is it even possible with all the data involved for the clock to go faster without crashing to desktop.I dont know,Im a scaffolder not a computer geek/programmer.



06 Maestro -> RE: HOI3 (3/31/2010 2:59:10 AM)

Other than testing, I don't know why anyone would want to play the 1st 3 years in 90 minutes-or how they could do it with any reasonable attention to details.

If the USA seems to easy-or not enough to do, then try Germany, Italy, France, uk or Japan. There is a whole lot going on. Forget about 4 seconds a day-10 seconds a day is too fast. There is a whole lot of game in there. Gotta take the time to smell the roses.



JudgeDredd -> RE: HOI3 (3/31/2010 7:27:26 AM)

I'm the same 06 - I like to take my time. I've never been interested in running HoI at full speed. And anyway...the game requires so much attention, it's nigh impossible to run it at full speed anyway, what with message, trade offers, wasted IC (bane of my life) new technology.....running at full speed just doesn't allow me to deal with all these things.




GoodGuy -> RE: HOI3 (3/31/2010 7:28:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

Other than testing, I don't know why anyone would want to play the 1st 3 years in 90 minutes-or how they could do it with any reasonable attention to details. ..... Gotta take the time to smell the roses.


Well, but say one has set up all his units and the production queue so that there's no interaction needed for a while, then raising (eg. to see how the attack on a certain region/country plays out) the game speed to the fastest or 2nd fastest level can be quite useful. If the user sets up his air force missions for say a month (if air losses aren't too high) this actually works pretty well.

But even up to version 1.3, this usually makes the game so unstable that a single mouse click (on the "wrong" ingame button or menu) could result in a CTD. I just read the readme-list of fixes for 1.4 : They could track down and fix a couple of memory leaks (production queue, etc.) with patch 1.3 (!). IT seems like until 1.3 they had not seriously touched the performance and stability issues (besides fixing a few crash bugs).

Even worse, the lists containing "game balance" fixes and "interface improvements" in 1.4 are so long, it's unbelievable. In this thread (or some other HOI-thread) I stated something along the line that "the game is so broken, it's terrible" or something like that. Looking at the list of issues covered in the readme, I can say I was spot on. All these points/fixes should have been subject to BETA testing and fixing. It really appears the game wasn't even finished on release, as features and buttons (which should have been in there in the stock version) were added even up to version 1.4.

On the other hand, the fixes in the "performance and stability" sector (in patch 1.3) amount to ~34 fixes only, a few dealing with memory leaks, but most dealing with rendering optimizations (doh) and mouse interaction. Looking at the 1.4 fixes in that sector - and thinking about how unstable 1.3 is - makes me laugh actually: ~26 major fixes, mainly some 5 optimizations ranging from some framerate fix, fixing freezes, ATI shader fixes, and solving maprendering issues, plus 10 crashes when certain countries surrendered had been tracked down. Most of the CTDs I got (and I got a shyteload) happened when I selected a game speed faster than normal game speed and it didn't involve a country just surrendered.

So after reading the 1.4 list of fixes, I don't expect less CTDs, tbh.

I'll fire up the game one last time, to see if there's any improvement, before I delete it.



GoodGuy -> RE: HOI3 (3/31/2010 8:08:14 AM)

I just had my first laugh already, with 1.4 :

I launched the 1941 hist. scenario a few mins ago, playing the Germans. Some partisans just popped up in the Polish region Namyslow: A British militia brigade. lol.

EDIT: It seems like Stalin managed to recruit some volunteers in the UK, as British brigades are eager to organize the defense of one or another Russian region after a while, in this "historical" scenario. Now that's what I call entertainment software...... not. [;)]



RyanCrierie -> RE: HOI3 (3/31/2010 9:36:40 AM)

quote:

Other than testing, I don't know why anyone would want to play the 1st 3 years in 90 minutes-or how they could do it with any reasonable attention to details.


The problem is, if you start out in the 1936 scenario; once you've made your initial investments in IC and research; there isn't much to do but sit around waiting for them to finish; to begin your next round of division building and research picks.

quote:

If the USA seems to easy-or not enough to do, then try Germany, Italy, France, uk or Japan.


Germany still requires you to play for about an hour before things get fun (1936 to 1938). Before that, Germany is just too weak and ill equipped in forces.

quote:

There is a whole lot of game in there. Gotta take the time to smell the roses.


The problem is it takes a while to get through the dead space. Even WITP AE can be played decently fast; a few hours of playing if you don't go obsessive like trying to control every last offensive in China etc can get you through some mighty awesome early war battles, like ABDA cruisers tangling in the Java Sea etc.



BletchleyGeek -> RE: HOI3 (3/31/2010 10:36:27 AM)

To be honest: I am waiting for the C.O.R.E. or the Total Realism guys to start delivering mods before going back to that game. Just too much what ifs becoming true in the average game. Sometimes it feels like Terry Pratchett writing an alternate WW2 history...



Chad Harrison -> RE: HOI3 (3/31/2010 6:44:29 PM)

I bought HOI3 from Steam during the Holidays for like $5. And so far, I have not gotten my $5 worth. As many have stated here, on my system I can not play for 3 minutes without a CTD. Try to pick a tutorial: CTD. Try to start a non-1936 start: CTD. Click on the wrong button: CTD. I got more enjoyment out of Pacific Storm (which was a terrible game) than I have out of HOI:3. After each patch I keep running it again hoping that the CTD's will be taken care of.

So . . . have they taken care of them yet? I can get by balance or other issues. I just cant play the game right now. [8|]

I am Win7, Core i7 by the way.

Thanks

Chad



06 Maestro -> RE: HOI3 (3/31/2010 7:05:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

I bought HOI3 from Steam during the Holidays for like $5. And so far, I have not gotten my $5 worth. As many have stated here, on my system I can not play for 3 minutes without a CTD. Try to pick a tutorial: CTD. Try to start a non-1936 start: CTD. Click on the wrong button: CTD. I got more enjoyment out of Pacific Storm (which was a terrible game) than I have out of HOI:3. After each patch I keep running it again hoping that the CTD's will be taken care of.

So . . . have they taken care of them yet? I can get by balance or other issues. I just cant play the game right now. [8|]

I am Win7, Core i7 by the way.

Thanks

Chad


There were issues with patches from Steam not being compatible. The Dev stated that he personally check the Steam patch before sending it to them-1.4 from Steam should work fine.

I bought my copy from GG. In hundreds of hours of play (on Vista 32) I have had very few CTD.



06 Maestro -> RE: HOI3 (3/31/2010 7:22:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RyanCrierie

quote:

Other than testing, I don't know why anyone would want to play the 1st 3 years in 90 minutes-or how they could do it with any reasonable attention to details.


The problem is, if you start out in the 1936 scenario; once you've made your initial investments in IC and research; there isn't much to do but sit around waiting for them to finish; to begin your next round of division building and research picks.


There are techs that need to be planned and monitored, there is diplomacy,there is leadership to manage and of course, on can watch the world developments to know what is actually going on. One common complaint is that Sweden always joins the Allies. If Axis players would take a few minutes to look at diplomacy, that would not happen-it is so easy to fix that it is really funny that anyone would have that problem. The thing is-they are not playing the game.

quote:


quote:

If the USA seems to easy-or not enough to do, then try Germany, Italy, France, uk or Japan.


Germany still requires you to play for about an hour before things get fun (1936 to 1938). Before that, Germany is just too weak and ill equipped in forces.

There is a lot to do in preparation for war. If you ignore those tasks, then you should not be surprised at non historical events-assuming that's what you want.

quote:


quote:

There is a whole lot of game in there. Gotta take the time to smell the roses.


The problem is it takes a while to get through the dead space. Even WITP AE can be played decently fast; a few hours of playing if you don't go obsessive like trying to control every last offensive in China etc can get you through some mighty awesome early war battles, like ABDA cruisers tangling in the Java Sea etc.


This depends on what you call "dead space". WitP starts in war-HoI does not (from '36 unless Italy).

I own WitP. I think it is a great game and have played for a few hundred hours. However, I have never played a complete game and doubt I ever will. The reason is that it simply takes too long to do a turn. It seems more than a little odd that you would choose WitP to make a favorable speed of play comparison with HoI. In the time it takes me to set up for a Japanese first turn and play a week into the war, I will long since have finished a game of HoI.

If the actual war time operations is the primary reason for playing a game then you should start HoI during the war, or the 1 September '39 start. I do that sometimes. After the war starts then diplomacy falls to the wayside.



Greybriar -> RE: HOI3 (3/31/2010 7:24:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

I bought HOI3 from Steam during the Holidays for like $5. And so far, I have not gotten my $5 worth. As many have stated here, on my system I can not play for 3 minutes without a CTD. Try to pick a tutorial: CTD. Try to start a non-1936 start: CTD. Click on the wrong button: CTD. I got more enjoyment out of Pacific Storm (which was a terrible game) than I have out of HOI:3. After each patch I keep running it again hoping that the CTD's will be taken care of.

So . . . have they taken care of them yet? I can get by balance or other issues. I just cant play the game right now. [8|]

I am Win7, Core i7 by the way.

Thanks

Chad

I purchased the retail boxed version of HoI3 when it was first released. I am running Windows Vista and have had none of the problems you experienced. It looks to me like it's a Steam issue in your case.



06 Maestro -> RE: HOI3 (3/31/2010 8:01:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

quote:

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

Other than testing, I don't know why anyone would want to play the 1st 3 years in 90 minutes-or how they could do it with any reasonable attention to details. ..... Gotta take the time to smell the roses.


Well, but say one has set up all his units and the production queue so that there's no interaction needed for a while, then raising (eg. to see how the attack on a certain region/country plays out) the game speed to the fastest or 2nd fastest level can be quite useful. If the user sets up his air force missions for say a month (if air losses aren't too high) this actually works pretty well.


I do run the game on a faster speed during peacetime than in war, but very seldom at high speed. Tech research may need to be shifted 30 or 40 times a year. This needs to be monitored. If you have the game running at full speed you will have several days (at least) pass before each one is reassigned. This translates into several wasted months of research time per year-not very efficient. Diplomacy needs to be monitored as does intelligence-otherwise you will gain enemies and/or suffer from enemy spy operations. I can run the game at higher than normal speeds to accomplish these things, but not high speed. 10 seconds a day is plenty fast-and I still pause now and then. We seem to want different things from the game.

During wartime I will run the game at second to slowest-and still pause. To take it to high speed is useless for me other than seeing how the ai works. If I was to run the Barbarossa scenario at high speed the first six months would be finished in 10 to 15 minutes. How one can have any pertinent input in that masive operation at that speed is beyond me. Of course, while you are frantically trying to have input there the Western Allies are up to no good and the uboats are getting hammered. Of course, there are still techs that need to be adjusted, intelligence and so on. I see no reason to run the game like that. Other than some test, it is a pointless waste of time.


quote:


But even up to version 1.3, this usually makes the game so unstable that a single mouse click (on the "wrong" ingame button or menu) could result in a CTD. I just read the readme-list of fixes for 1.4 : They could track down and fix a couple of memory leaks (production queue, etc.) with patch 1.3 (!). IT seems like until 1.3 they had not seriously touched the performance and stability issues (besides fixing a few crash bugs).


The simple truth is that CTDs was not a universal problem. Many-I assume the vast majority including myself, had minimal issues with stability-right from the initial release. I play on a home built PC-that according to various scans has hundreds of problems. Go figure.


quote:


Even worse, the lists containing "game balance" fixes and "interface improvements" in 1.4 are so long, it's unbelievable. In this thread (or some other HOI-thread) I stated something along the line that "the game is so broken, it's terrible" or something like that. Looking at the list of issues covered in the readme, I can say I was spot on. All these points/fixes should have been subject to BETA testing and fixing. It really appears the game wasn't even finished on release, as features and buttons (which should have been in there in the stock version) were added even up to version 1.4.


There were many small problems-and there will be plenty more in the future. However, like the ongoing supply issues, those are not consistent in all areas (or countries). Many of these fixed bugs do not happen in all games. That they can track these down to fix is impressive. It will be a long time coming before this game, or any game, will be perfect. I do agree that the initial release looked to be not ready for release. The memory leaks were significant and should have been caught in beta testing. On my machine a day would take a full 10 seconds on the highest speed-HoI 2 would take 2 seconds on highest speed-a very big difference. However, with my play style even that was not an issue. There were some that reported 30 seconds a day-that would count as a broken game in my book. But again, not everyone had that level of difficulty.


quote:


On the other hand, the fixes in the "performance and stability" sector (in patch 1.3) amount to ~34 fixes only, a few dealing with memory leaks, but most dealing with rendering optimizations (doh) and mouse interaction. Looking at the 1.4 fixes in that sector - and thinking about how unstable 1.3 is - makes me laugh actually: ~26 major fixes, mainly some 5 optimizations ranging from some framerate fix, fixing freezes, ATI shader fixes, and solving maprendering issues, plus 10 crashes when certain countries surrendered had been tracked down. Most of the CTDs I got (and I got a shyteload) happened when I selected a game speed faster than normal game speed and it didn't involve a country just surrendered.


Again, many of these problems were not consistent. Perhaps I have avoided many of these issues because I seldom run it at full speed. I do know that high speed play makes the game less stable-from personnel experience. However, as I see no point in running the game at that speed, it certainly does not break the game for me.




Widell -> RE: HOI3 (3/31/2010 9:56:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison
I am Win7, Core i7 by the way.


Same here, and I had the continous CTD's on all versions up to, and including 1.4. Now, I always launch the game as "admin" and DO NOT touch the audio and video settings, and (fingers crossed!) have not had a single CTD since then. Maybe you tested that already? If not, it's at least worth a try.



JudgeDredd -> RE: HOI3 (3/31/2010 10:00:43 PM)

I tried to play last night, but the map zoom seems to hold me back getting into it. At the right zoom level that you see province names, you don't get to see enough of the battlefield and zoomed out so you can see enough of the battlefield, you can't see the provinces. [:(]



bairdlander2 -> RE: HOI3 (4/1/2010 2:24:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

quote:



This depends on what you call "dead space". WitP starts in war-HoI does not (from '36 unless Italy).

It seems more than a little odd that you would choose WitP to make a favorable speed of play comparison with HoI.



I think the post RC made is like many on the PI forum,silly and non sensical.



GoodGuy -> RE: HOI3 (4/1/2010 3:02:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

On the other hand, the fixes in the "performance and stability" sector (in patch 1.3) amount to ~34 fixes only, a few dealing with memory leaks, but most dealing with rendering optimizations (doh) and mouse interaction. Looking at the 1.4 fixes in that sector - and thinking about how unstable 1.3 is - makes me laugh actually: ~26 major fixes, mainly some 5 optimizations ranging from some framerate fix, fixing freezes, ATI shader fixes, and solving maprendering issues, plus 10 crashes when certain countries surrendered had been tracked down. Most of the CTDs I got (and I got a shyteload) happened when I selected a game speed faster than normal game speed and it didn't involve a country just surrendered.


Again, many of these problems were not consistent. Perhaps I have avoided many of these issues because I seldom run it at full speed. I do know that high speed play makes the game less stable-from personnel experience. However, as I see no point in running the game at that speed, it certainly does not break the game for me.


I hate to quote myself, but I said that "most of the CTDs I got (and I got a shyteload) happened when I selected a game speed faster than normal game speed". I don't see why a user shouldn't run the game at say 2x speed, as that's pretty much the only way to skip the (very) boring parts (peaceful periods, or where you've issued all orders).
Also, I set production/research to what I'd call "semi-auto" at times (so that the AI does not waste IC, but that it can't tinker with the content of the respective queues). I even know people who enable the player AI, in order to let a Korps defend England after they have invaded the "isle", in order to take care of the actual battles on the continent themselfs, for example. [:D]

If you know how to use the auto-features in a way that they don't sabotage your policies/production/research/gameplay, then there is really no NEED to sit and watch (for "hours") how 10 stacked player units are taking a region defended by one AI milita unit.

But until patch 1.4, the game speed feature was one of the major sources responsible for the CTDs, well along with the numerous memory leaks. Since they could track down some memory leaks and freezes, it plays a lot better with 1.4 now, but now I've got British partisans showing up in Poland, along with some British divisions popping up at in Russian territory, defending the frontline.
I usually don't use it, but I just tested the player AI (defend/attack routines on Army/Supreme HQ level etc.) with 1.4, and I gotta say it does not relocate as many units as before, quite some are stuck in the middle of Germany or France, even though the Supreme HQ estimates the size of the opposing enemy force to be smaller than the size of the subordinated force.

So, Paradox does look a bit like one of those companies who track down and kill one bug, but add another bug in the process (well unintentionally I guess, but it doesn't matter). Now that's not new, some company called Microsoft excels in that field.

It's hard to avoid Microsoft (OS monopoly), but I'll avoid Paradox and its products in the future, no doubt. I don't feel like paying for a paradox BETA product again in the near future, sorry.



Chad Harrison -> RE: HOI3 (4/1/2010 2:50:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Widell

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison
I am Win7, Core i7 by the way.


Same here, and I had the continous CTD's on all versions up to, and including 1.4. Now, I always launch the game as "admin" and DO NOT touch the audio and video settings, and (fingers crossed!) have not had a single CTD since then. Maybe you tested that already? If not, it's at least worth a try.



Thanks for the replies everyone. I will have to try running it as an admin then.

Thanks

Chad



RyanCrierie -> RE: HOI3 (4/2/2010 1:05:22 PM)

quote:

There are techs that need to be planned and monitored


Um, wrong. Tech planning is pretty quick and simple; pick what you want to research; wait for it to finish; then pick the next tech in line. For example; it takes about a year for me to research single engine fighter technology as the US; that's 30 minutes before I can substantiatively change my direction of tech.

quote:

there is diplomacy


Why do I have to intervene and micromanage the diplomacy of the third reich? I should be able to bring up a list of countries, and allocate a percentage of diplomatic points to specific countries and set the overall tone of my diplomacy; and then hand it off to the Diplomatic AI to make the deals and wheedle people for me; and only intervene when a major strategic decision must be made that would have huge consequences -- e.g. you do NOT want the computer deciding on it's own to use your diplomatic points to try for a pro-fascist coup in Sweden; cause if it fails it will drive others away from you...

quote:

there is leadership to manage


You mean like picking which ministers you want? That doesn't take that long.

quote:

This depends on what you call "dead space". WitP starts in war-HoI does not (from '36 unless Italy).


WITP is also a historical simulation that is fairly detailed and starts off at the *bang*; while HOI is a much less detailed Axis-And-Allies type sim whose whole schtick is that you can take a completely different tack to WWII -- want to see what happens if Britain decided to stand up to Hitler in 1938? How much more could Germany have gotten ahead if they hadn't spent so much money on V-2s? That kind of stuff.

The thing is; to do that, you have to start at the beginning; because by 1940; the Germans had already sunk a lot of money into von Braun's rocketry team; among other things.

quote:

The reason is that it simply takes too long to do a turn.


A turn of WITP doesn't take that long -- the trick is not to micro manage every little submarine (there's a decent submarine AI in WITP for that that assigns subs for you), and every airbase. I'm also helped a lot by basically ignoring the war in China -- it basically was a sideshow in the real war; with no real effect on the rest of the pacific.



bairdlander2 -> RE: HOI3 (4/2/2010 1:33:03 PM)

Actually in reality you have different research of different things.For example different guns for tanks,engines etc.The final result can and will be different everytime.It should be monitored.As for diplomacy you can choose which countries to influence already.There are also events that pop up that you need to make decisions on.As for picking leaders,yes I agree it doesnt take long to pick ministers,but sometimes you need to change them depending on what results you want and whether you are at peace.Also you need to assign different officers to different units using their "traits".Its bullshit to say that its easy to make initial decisions for a major country,then sit back and wait for the war to start.You know it and anyone who has played HOI3 knows it.As for me,I prefer AoD.HOI3 feels like more work than anything.



MajFrankBurns -> RE: HOI3 (4/2/2010 1:59:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RyanCrierie

HOI3 Patch 1.04
Road To War 1936 Scenario
1920x1080 60 Hz
Core 2 Quad Q6600; 8 GB RAM, Geforce 8800 GTS

It takes about 4-5 seconds for each day in January 1936. By that average, it takes 150 seconds (2.5 minutes) for a 30-day month to pass. That comes out to 1800 seconds (30 minutes) for a year to pass.

1936-1939 is three years. That's 1.5 hours of doing nothing but staring at the screen as the US waiting for war to break out.

HOI3 is utterly unplayable, period. While waiting 30 minutes for a year to pass may be acceptable to some younger masochoists who have a lot of time, I'm no longer the person I was in 2002; I'm older now, and I don't want to spend time twiddling my thumbs.

For this reason, I just can't play Silent Hunter 3 and 4 anymore -- even a simple war patrol in SH4 with a S-Boat out of the phillipines takes several hours, due to the absolutely horrid time compression.


I take it yu don''t play WitP much do yah? Cause that game takes a lot longer than HOI to play

Also you'll spend the first two hours of WitP just thinking of what you want to do and change that 100 times before doing something.



Chad Harrison -> RE: HOI3 (4/2/2010 4:00:31 PM)

Just to report on my attempt. It actually worked with running it as an admin. No crashes so far.



06 Maestro -> RE: HOI3 (4/2/2010 5:09:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

Just to report on my attempt. It actually worked with running it as an admin. No crashes so far.


Congratulations. Now you can begin your great experiment.

There are still some oddities with the game, such as allied forces appearing in areas to help out where it just not would have been very likely. :). (this s a side effect of improving allied cooperation-which needed some help)

Check out the mods for some improved game play. DiDay's is a good place to start.



hgilmer3 -> RE: HOI3 (6/2/2010 1:03:17 AM)

What's up with all the "sprites" that sell for $1.59 or so?  I was thinking about getting the game, but not if I need a bunch of add-on graphics that will nickel and dime me to death.



uncc -> RE: HOI3 (6/2/2010 3:00:04 PM)

You don't need the sprites. They're just extra eye candy for those who want it...



htuna -> RE: HOI3 (6/2/2010 3:16:38 PM)

I'd get Arsenal of Democracy instead... HOI III is a flop



MajFrankBurns -> RE: HOI3 (6/2/2010 4:08:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cmurphy625

I'd get Arsenal of Democracy instead... HOI III is a flop


Well you know after the expansion Semper-Fi and some patches for that then a sale of the HOI III Gold version then another expansion after that then the sale of HOI III Platinum version then a bunch of DLC and then the final HOI III Complete version then it won't be a flop anymore and you'll be able to get it for $4.99 haha



bairdlander2 -> RE: HOI3 (6/3/2010 1:46:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cmurphy625

I'd get Arsenal of Democracy instead... HOI III is a flop

Arsenal of Democracy is basically a mod.Yes i agree HOI3 was **** at first,but with the patches and the upcoming exspansion(which i refuse to purchase,it more or less is a patch they want to charge for) it should be alright.But its a lot like WitPAE,lots of micro managment and detail.Feels more like work than a game.



hgilmer3 -> RE: HOI3 (6/3/2010 1:49:55 AM)

The reason I even got interested is because I recently bought Victoria Complete and I like it a lot.  And now I was a little interested in the other games in that series.  I bought EU3 complete for $11 and being able to export files from the end of one game to the next is intriguing to me.



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