27-29th April 1942 (Full Version)

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Speedysteve -> 27-29th April 1942 (6/22/2010 12:14:44 PM)

Hi all,

CBI -

All quiet over northern Burma. I'm awaiting the arrival of a couple of Hurri Squadrons then will begin air efforts from both Imphal and Ledo. Oh yeah supply would be handy too.

A decent Indian Bde ahas formed up at Madras already with '1942' Squads. She'll rest for a bit before moving forward. As it stands I expect to move forward into Burma over the next few months, dependent on what Faber does.

China - not a lot of progress just some moving around of forces to try and trap each other and cut each other off. One of my corps has been wiped out by my own shock attack at Tatung.

A couple of plans are afoot but I'll keep them hidden for now for operational secrecy.

Chinese fighters ambush some IJA bombers over Wenchow claiming 9 of them.

22nd (east) African Bde has arrived at Mombasa. It's a decent unit equipment wise (African Squads have 55 ARM attack IIRC!) In due course she'll move to India.

CV Illustrious has arrived Cape Town. When my other CV's repair that will give me 3 x Brit CV's + Hermes. Not bad.

--------------------------------

SRA -

The Battered B******* of Buitenzorg fight on exacting a heavy Japanese toll - 2000 vs 2200 Troops lost.

A few more empty bases (Babo for example) have been captured by Faber. 4th Division has landed at Cagayan.

--------------------------------

Australia -

Daly Waters (empty) fell to the Japanese on the 27th.

KB (obviously) moved eastward away from Brisbane. I continued to track her.......

--------------------------------

Submarine warfare -

A decent few days with 1 notable exception!

As mentioned I'd been tracking KB and I sent SS Grampus to greet them. She selected CV Hiryu and fired 6 torpedoes at her.......duds.....damn[:@]

On a more positive note SS Tuna stalked and blew up the small freighter Shinsoku Maru with a torpedo SE of Toyohara.

SS Skipjack had been tracking the Babo invasion force, evaded an escort in the morning and put a torpedo into AK Durban Maru later in the day.

[image]local://upfiles/4211/2F96ADD074D64A108CE63202E934C4A0.jpg[/image]




Speedysteve -> RE: 27-29th April 1942 (6/22/2010 12:17:27 PM)

Guys,

What's your thoughts on this -

It seems as though Faber has landed a suicide squad via Sub at Suva clearly to scout out what forces I have there. Now, we have never said yay or nay to sub commando raids but I'm a little inclined to say this is gamey but am unsure since we didn't agree on it one way or tother at game start?

I clearly haven't mentioned this to Faber yet as I wanted to get a concensus.

[image]local://upfiles/4211/F03FED9ADFCD4B809DEBCDD8783F2A01.jpg[/image]




ckammp -> RE: 27-29th April 1942 (6/22/2010 1:22:53 PM)

Commando raids inserted by sub on small bases like Makin are one thing, but landing on a base the size of Suva seems gamey.
Even if you haven't added any forces there, you start with 2 Bns and a BF, more than enough to completly destroy a sub-sized raiding force. Since the mission would be suicide, how would, in RL, Japan gain any intel from the landing?
It also appears unneeded; your opponent has Efate, all he has to do is build it up and send some Bettys to recon Suva.   




Canoerebel -> RE: 27-29th April 1942 (6/22/2010 1:57:22 PM)

I have no problem with the tactic.  In real life the US Navy used "commandos" for pre-invasion scouting of beaches and obstacles.  The Allies also developed a pretty detailed roster of the enemy troops they would face.  The game doesn't model this very well (there's no way to land "seals" and then retrieve them), but landing a cadre of troops accomplishes the same thing.




ckammp -> RE: 27-29th April 1942 (6/22/2010 2:15:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I have no problem with the tactic.  In real life the US Navy used "commandos" for pre-invasion scouting of beaches and obstacles.  The Allies also developed a pretty detailed roster of the enemy troops they would face.  The game doesn't model this very well (there's no way to land "seals" and then retrieve them), but landing a cadre of troops accomplishes the same thing.



You are correct - the game doesn't model commando intel raids very well; in fact, not at all.
That is why the tactic should not be used.
Sending a squad sized group of men on a suicide raid to a base the size of Suva is gamey. If Faber wants intel on Suva, he can recon the base with a/c.




Speedysteve -> RE: 27-29th April 1942 (6/22/2010 2:20:55 PM)

Hi all,

I've had confirmation from Faber it was a glitch. He conducted no sub raid, no transports etc. Whatever it was was wiped out by attrition apparently! Odd.......




Speedysteve -> 30th April 1942 (6/22/2010 7:30:39 PM)

Hi all,

CBI -

With the arrival of 60th Chinese Corps and 1st Group Army an all out attack will be made against Japanese positions south of Kukong tomorrow.

-------------------------------------

SRA -

At long last the Battered B******* of Buitenzorg succumbed to Japanese pressure. Starved, bombed and shelled every day since 17th February. Resistance and delaying the Japanese for over 2 months. I salute you and the 77000 Dutch marching into slavery[&o]

The last pockets of resistance for the Japanese to overcome are at Cagayan, Mindanao and Medan, Sumatra.

-------------------------------------

Submarine warfare -

SS KXI had the lone success today by reportedly sinking the troop laden AK Zuisyo Maru with 2 torpedoes near Groot Natoena.




witpqs -> RE: 27-29th April 1942 (6/22/2010 7:38:30 PM)

The code no longer even allows sub raids or sub evacuations. Subs can only load/unload in a port and only if the air threat they are under is not too bad.




Speedysteve -> End of April 1942 (6/22/2010 8:29:42 PM)

Hi all,

Points:

Allies: +380
Japanese: +3358 (lots here from the surrender of Buitenzorg).


Bases:

Allies: -35 (-170 points)
Japanese: +36 (+695 points)


Planes:

Allies: +168
Japanese: +279


Troops:

Allies: +2217
Japanese: +127


Ships:

Allies: +26 (+200 points)
Japanese: +26 (+222 points)

-------------------------------

Sub kills:

Dutch Boats:

AK - 16 (+3)
CM - 2
PB - 1
DMS - 3
TB - 1
APD - 1
DD - 2 (-2)
TK - 1 (+1)

----------------------------------

British Boats:

DD - 1 (mine)
SC - 1

----------------------------------

Fleet Boats:

AP - 1
AK - 24 (+7)
CM - 1
DD - 2
E - 1

----------------------------------

S-Boats:

AK - 4
DMS - 0 (-1)
CM - 1
PB - 1

Total = 64 ships = 42.95% of reported sunk ships total.

[image]local://upfiles/4211/F7468B45CB92465AA09771E26C64EA7E.jpg[/image]




Speedysteve -> RE: 27-29th April 1942 (6/22/2010 8:31:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The code no longer even allows sub raids or sub evacuations. Subs can only load/unload in a port and only if the air threat they are under is not too bad.



Really interesting. Didn't know that. Thanks [:)]

As I say it was really odd since whatever it was (no name shown) it was wiped out by attrition at the end of the turn so all's good as it's gone and Faber doesn't have free intel.




Speedysteve -> Burma (6/22/2010 9:20:33 PM)

Burma

[image]local://upfiles/4211/450D11DA2F2F43D6981075A9C8A14BA8.jpg[/image]




Speedysteve -> China (6/22/2010 9:22:14 PM)

China

[image]local://upfiles/4211/5242B2D1BC844EAE91F832D9F5DDFE99.jpg[/image]




Speedysteve -> Australia (6/22/2010 9:24:16 PM)

Australia

[image]local://upfiles/4211/3F2F9A2E70D54095877D067966549F07.jpg[/image]




crsutton -> RE: 27-29th April 1942 (6/22/2010 10:50:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Hi all,

CBI -

22nd (east) African Bde has arrived at Mombasa. It's a decent unit equipment wise (African Squads have 55 ARM attack IIRC!) In due course she'll move to India.

[image]local://upfiles/4211/2F96ADD074D64A108CE63202E934C4A0.jpg[/image]



I believe that you get no East African squads as replacments until early 1943. Better check this.




ckammp -> RE: 27-29th April 1942 (6/23/2010 12:12:09 AM)

African Rifle squad replacements are available starting Jan 43; but African Combat Engineer replacements don't start until Jun 43.




Speedysteve -> 1-2nd May 1942 (6/23/2010 10:56:09 AM)

Hi all,

Hi guys - yeah I just noticed that. I guess I'll keep them in a reserve/garrison role in India if and when I can start an offensive from here.

---------------------------------

CBI -

Quiet over Burma.

In China though the action continues. The all out attack south of Kukong was VERY disappointing:

Ground combat at 80,58

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 27275 troops, 162 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1041

Defending force 10851 troops, 148 guns, 28 vehicles, Assault Value = 369

Allied adjusted assault: 878

Japanese adjusted defense: 1150

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
412 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 31 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 28 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Allied ground losses:
3811 casualties reported
Squads: 18 destroyed, 392 disabled
Non Combat: 19 destroyed, 195 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 14 disabled
Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)

China is SO frustrating sometimes!

This is kind of the final straw for me with them so I'm not planning a new type of strategy with the useless rabble. I am going to try and surround and cut off Japanese units rather than attack them. My sticks and stones approach just isn't working [;)]

I've also encountered a glitch in China NE of Tsiaotso! I had my stack of Corps moving back SW into this hex following 1 unit. The unit moved but the rest fo the stack re-set and didn't move! FFS! I've asked Faber if he'll let the rest of the stack move before attacking or moving up there.

Lancer's have been in action again around Kukong. They've shot down 6 x Sallly but enemy Tojo/Oscar's scored 3 kills in return.

---------------------------------

SRA -

Enemy troops are in action at my last 2 'bastions' in SRA - Cagayan and Medan. Cagayan will probably fall within a week. Medan may hold on a little longer unless Faber brings more force.

----------------------------------

Submarine warfare -

SS Truant had been ordered to the Medan area to intercept the Japanese invasion forces. She encountered a convoy and left AK Chowa Maru heavily damaged with a torpedo hit.

On the other side SS I-155 sank the 1190 tonne PG Hindustan near Trivandrum - part of an empty Abadan bound convoy.




Alfred -> RE: 27-29th April 1942 (6/24/2010 10:52:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The code no longer even allows sub raids or sub evacuations. Subs can only load/unload in a port and only if the air threat they are under is not too bad.



Really interesting. Didn't know that. Thanks [:)]

As I say it was really odd since whatever it was (no name shown) it was wiped out by attrition at the end of the turn so all's good as it's gone and Faber doesn't have free intel.


I'm not 100% certain that this is entirely accurate. I haven't conducted any sub LCU operations yet so I could be entirely wrong but I suspect the above is not a blanket cover for all subs. The normal SS probably fall within the above but SST I think are treated differently as they are "intended" to be the mode of transporting Raider units, so it may be that the air limitation does not apply to them.

Alfred




Speedysteve -> RE: 27-29th April 1942 (6/24/2010 11:18:51 AM)

Hi all,

Hi Alfred - hmm. Not sure. I do believe this was a glitch though since no unit name or fragment name appeared when the unit was wiped out by attrition

-------------------------------------

The action for the past 2 days was mainly focussed on China and the SRA.

SRA -

Attacks by the Japanese at both Medan and Cagayan failed (Cagayan will fall though due to lack of supply my end). He'll probably need to bring more to Medan though.

Zamboanga fell to a Naval Gd unit netting another 200 Allied prisoners.

I've been trying to tally up where Faber's divisions are and where they're likely to head next. Looking at the knowns:

Cagayan - 2nd + 4th Division, 65th Bde.
Medan - 1 x Rgt.
Burma - IGD, 55th Division
Java HAD - 48th Division, 18th Division, 38th Division + 1 division more equivalent.
Australia - 1 division's worth at least.

Guess that covers most of them? The Java one's may well be heading elsewhere now though and the Cagayan forces will be freed up within the week.

Interestingly SigInt said that 12th Division was preparing for Suva but this is probably a feint. Certainly wouldn't mind Faber going for Suva though[:)]

--------------------------

China -

Some progress to report. Using my new tactics I've managed to surround 27th Division, 2nd Ind. Mixed Bde + 2 x ARM Rgt's SE of Nanyang. That's about 700 AV worth. I have almost 1000 but hope to wipe them out due to lack of supply before Japanese reinforcements can arrive. We'll see.........

Looks as though Faber is trying the west door into China through Paoshan. 6 enemy units are reported 40 miles away. I currenlty have 4 units there with a large 5th Corps a few days away. Unless Faber has bought 3 divisions I'm confident I can hold behind level 3 forts.

---------------------------

Submarine warfare -

No contacts to report.

----------------------------

May 1942 plan -

Still in general, from my perspective, a defensive month with more troops and force heading to Australia. Another 2 x US Divisions worth will be there this month. It looks as though a Bde's worth is heading SE from Daly aters towards Geraldton.

My aim is to mainly hold the line in Aus until more forces arrive.

My CV's will continue to rest and train pilots whilst getting their complement of TBF's. ONLY then may I think about using them in a limited offensive somewhere if the opportunity is there. This will not happen for a few months though.

Burma - defensive buildup and training mainly.

China - who knows. It's too fluid to be certain ;-)

[image]local://upfiles/4211/2139CEE75D0F485DA938BDB3BD67C8AB.jpg[/image]




witpqs -> RE: 27-29th April 1942 (6/24/2010 5:29:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The code no longer even allows sub raids or sub evacuations. Subs can only load/unload in a port and only if the air threat they are under is not too bad.



Really interesting. Didn't know that. Thanks [:)]

As I say it was really odd since whatever it was (no name shown) it was wiped out by attrition at the end of the turn so all's good as it's gone and Faber doesn't have free intel.


I'm not 100% certain that this is entirely accurate. I haven't conducted any sub LCU operations yet so I could be entirely wrong but I suspect the above is not a blanket cover for all subs. The normal SS probably fall within the above but SST I think are treated differently as they are "intended" to be the mode of transporting Raider units, so it may be that the air limitation does not apply to them.

Alfred


I tried it and found differently. Posted it as a bug and was told differently. [:(]




Speedysteve -> 5-6th May 1942 (6/25/2010 12:10:10 PM)

Hi all,

The main action over the past 2 days is from Burma and China.

A series of P40 and Hurricane Fighter Sweeps were planned in the Katha area on the 6th. Several Oscar's intercepted but were decimated by the staggered Allied sweeps.. If I can believe my boys they downed 16 x OScars for the loss of 2 x Hurricane.

In China, the Japanese desperately tried to break out of the encirclement near Nanyang with little gain but heavy losses:

Ground combat at 86,46

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 18728 troops, 144 guns, 178 vehicles, Assault Value = 697

Defending force 44721 troops, 383 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 971

Japanese adjusted assault: 269

Allied adjusted defense: 860

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
2428 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 121 disabled
Non Combat: 18 destroyed, 97 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled
Vehicles lost 32 (9 destroyed, 23 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
589 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 42 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 40 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled

The Chinese will counter-attack to compress the Japanese positions tomorrow.

Further south 2 Chinese Corps stormed the river towards Nanchang with some (surprising) success:

Ground combat at Nanchang (85,54)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 15049 troops, 104 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 591

Defending force 17145 troops, 142 guns, 152 vehicles, Assault Value = 526

Allied adjusted assault: 542

Japanese adjusted defense: 539

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), fatigue(-)

Japanese ground losses:
81 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
1204 casualties reported
Squads: 11 destroyed, 80 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 83 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled

Of course my boys need to be reinforced so a couple more Corps are on the way..............

----------------------------------------

The only other sad news was that the Phillipine resistance on Mindanao ended on the 5th May when 17000 Soldiers surrendered to the Japanese at Cagayan.

----------------------------------------

Intel reports a lot of Japanese troops and tanks are aboard ships heading towards Japanese controlled Dili. Probably a staging area before moving into Northern Aus......bring it on. Another 200 AV of US Troops are approaching Normanton headed by a Marine Rgt.

[image]local://upfiles/4211/87D82548DF6843C8B28B58A4717B0882.jpg[/image]




Speedysteve -> 7th May 1942 (6/28/2010 8:24:28 AM)

Hi all,

Wow how things can change in a day!

China -

A catastrophic failure of Chinese forces occured SW of Chengchow. Despiite being there entrenched for 2 months in supply, with leaderships on site and experience between 45-50 the Chinese quite simply performed like England Football players vs Germany - i.e. a shocking defence:

Ground combat at 87,45

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 54196 troops, 575 guns, 178 vehicles, Assault Value = 1873

Defending force 44258 troops, 263 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1323

Japanese adjusted assault: 2291

Allied adjusted defense: 617

Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
3089 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 205 disabled
Non Combat: 34 destroyed, 178 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 32 disabled
Vehicles lost 60 (47 destroyed, 13 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
14204 casualties reported
Squads: 255 destroyed, 287 disabled
Non Combat: 243 destroyed, 302 disabled
Engineers: 7 destroyed, 22 disabled
Guns lost 5 (4 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Units retreated 4

I'm still in shock at this to be honest. These gusy had surived about 10 such attacks over the past 2 months with no remote threat of failure. Anyhow, this is a mute point now. A large swathe of northern China is now unhinged and I have no choice but to withdraw from Chengchow and Loyang towards Sian. I am p*ssed at this but c'est la vie.

To cap this off my forces that sotmed across the river towards Nanchang further south were also rudely routed back whence they came with heavy loss (almost 6000 men).

Sheesh.

The only good news for the day was the routing of 2 Japanese Brigades inbetween Hankow and Sinyang. It's insignificant now though sicne the victory doesn't allow any exploitation due to the darkening situation further north.

--------------------------

Submarine warfare -

The only other gopd news from today was from under the sea.

SS Trusty reportedly sunk the fuel laden TK Kiyo Maru with 2 torpedoes north of Brunei.

SS S-36 also hit a TK (Ayazono Maru) with dud torpedoes[:@] NE of Bangka Island.

Further west SS KVIII sank PB Kembu Maru.

[image]local://upfiles/4211/E6A0A5BAEA8A4AAFAEA76ED418F08A22.jpg[/image]




Alfred -> RE: 7th May 1942 (6/28/2010 3:26:39 PM)

Speedy,

You should not be too precipitous in abandoning both Loyang and Chengchow as that will considerably improve the Penguin's supply position and and make any move on Sian stronger whilst conversely weakening your supply position.

We have previously discussed the need to build some fieldworks before Sian thus I assume you are already in the process of moving fresh troops from elsewhere (including some of the Sian garrison) to build those fieldworks. In the interim you could start to thin out your garrisons in Loyang/Chengchow to provide rearguards but not completely evacuate thoses bases - make the Penguin use up time to change his axis of attack to capture those bases.

The units you have out in the open in the two hexes to the east plus the hex to the southeast of Nanyang serve no real purpose where they are located - they should move build fieldworks in the suitable defensive terrain on the Sian - Nanyang road.

Ultimately once Chengchow is owned by the enemy, the most effective and efficient place to defend Sian is on the railroad hex southeast of Sian.

Alfred




Speedysteve -> RE: 7th May 1942 (6/28/2010 3:36:29 PM)

Hi Alfred,

The problem I have now is that if I don't pull back from both Loyang/Chenchow I'll be surrounded. Reasons for this are that there are 12 units east of Chenchow, 7 NE of it and 10 east of Loyang.

There's approx: 1600 Japanese AV SW of Chengchow. I only have 1950 in Chengchow itself and a further 1500 in Loyang.

All of my forces to the SW are either holding the Japanese back at Sinyang or nullifying the advance on Nanyang.

In short I don't have a force to spare to counter the 1600 AV free SW of Chengchow.

I'm already in the process of moving forces back to Sian from the northern sector - from Yenan and NE of Tsiaotso.

Not sure what options I have here other than full scale retreat and a hedgehog defence around Sian?




castor troy -> RE: 7th May 1942 (6/28/2010 4:16:36 PM)

I can´t see the Chinese holding these open hexes, even if you build forts, they don´t help against any competent Japanese player and the only thing you then can hope for is your units completely destroyed as they come back at 1/3 strenght which is most often the same as they already are (or even more). I don´t like suffering losses (even if I know I get things back more or less instantly) so I´ve pulled out of the open hexes immedietely. Even level 4 forts are only a small help in open terrain.

It´s the same for the Japanese in Burma, if he tries to hold the open hexes around Mandalay down to Rangoon, he´s toast. As soon as you get into jungle warfare with jungle and jungle rough hexes at the Moulmein line, the Allied steamroller is stuck. And in China, it´s Sian. There are so many wooden, or rough hexes South and SE of Sian, that´s perfect for a defense and your troops will always have supplies in those hexes too.




Alfred -> RE: 7th May 1942 (6/28/2010 4:17:49 PM)

Speedy,

Based on my incomplete knowledge, compared to your's, here are a couple of quick comments on your last two posts regarding the unfurling disaster in the vicinity of Sian.

(1) It is pointless having units at Hankow. They will be:

(a) too weak to capture Hankow
(b) not disrupt the enemy supply network as Hankow can always be resupplied by river going sea vessels
(c) consequently out of position to contribute anything worthwhile, particularly as the focus of the enemy offensive is to the northm north towards Ichang/Changsha

Thus they should withdrawn to create a local reserve/rearguard for the campaign around Sian.

(2) The units 1 hex to the northeast of Hankow are out in the open and have only a very minor effect on interrupting enemy supply lines to Sinyang as the later base has the road to the east completely open. Withdraw these units before they are defeated. You need them for the rearguard/local reserve of (1) above.

(3) You cannot "nullify" the advance on Nanyang because:

(a) the terrain in front of Nanyang is poor for defense
(b) you are splitting up your forces into penny packets which can be defeated in detail by the enemy who can concentrate on each "box" in turn
(c) they are not really interfering with the enemy's logistics (too many enemy roads/railroads are unblocked)

Thus you are far better off defending Nanyang by withdrawing directly to that city, although in reality (bearing in mind what is happening to the north of Loyang) you should be defending the good defensive railroad terrain between Sian - Nanyang.

(4) I said thin out Loyang/Chengchow. Currently you have too many troops at Chengchow. You need to send troops to the hex either 2 northwest or 2 north (both are on the railroad) of Loyang. The appropriate one is determined by how quickly you can get there and with what to build field works. If you get there in time to build field works you will:

(a) allow a refuge for your retreating troops to the northeast of Tsiatso
(b) prevent your remaining Loyang/Chengchow garrisons from being trapped

(5) Time to start moving out from Central Reserve at Chungking those artillery units

Ultimately you are going to have to conduct a fighting retreat Nanyang/Loyang/Chengchow. Any thoughts of local offensive action on the periphery is a mistake.

Alfred




BrucePowers -> RE: 7th May 1942 (6/28/2010 4:46:03 PM)

Long live Emperor Fabertong[8D][:D]




Speedysteve -> RE: 7th May 1942 (6/28/2010 6:22:36 PM)

Hi guys,

Thanks for your thoughts (well other than Bruce[:'(]).

Alfred - really interesting. Am going to ponder a lot on what you say. Some quick thoughts/queries based on what you say

1.) Hankow - a fair point. My forces aren't strong enough to take it (1500 Allies vs 1000 Japanese). To explain my logic for having a 'forward defense' - I wanted to occupt the Japanese in either neutral ground or at their bases since it allows my bases to make supply and prevents theirs from doing so.

You're right though as it stands with the changing situation up north I may as well re-consider their use now. However, by withdrawing from around Hankow i'll also be opening up the front down south since Faber can then feely move troops from Hankow/Wuchow area?

I guess i'm kind of viewing the whole of China as a deck of cards and with things being unhinged up north once I move forces from further south I feel i'll have to move them all back since say I move from Hankow i'll also need to move from Wuchow and Sinyang wince Faber could easily surround/outnumber me there.

I guess if I did that I'd need to strongly hold behind the river at Ichang with my forces from Hankow and then I could use my Sinyang forces to move NW to support a fighting withdrawal from Nanyang?

2.) Agreed. There're already moving upto Nanyang direction after recently defeating 2 x IJA Bde's.

3.) I agree now. I was holding Faber there before and the 600 AV of IJA to the SE of Nanyang is still cut off from supply and surrounded. Maybe on moving the forces out of Sinyang  I could use these to bolster that pocket and try to annihilate it before Faber moves in from the east?

4.) Interesting thoughts. I guess I have to judge how much I can move out of Loyang/Chengchow. I am concerned of moving anythign out since with 37 IJA units around Chengchow and Loyang I feel I either need to hold with what I have at Chengchow or move them all out - i.e. by moving a few units to the NE/N of Loyang I'm diluting there defence further?

The forces NE of Tsiaotso currently have an amnesty since a bug prevented me from moving 6 corps to a position NE of Tsiaotso. When they arrive (tomorrow) I will shock attack the 1 x IJA Bde holding there.

The other Chinese forces further to the east SE of Yenan are to move toewards Yenan since they#ll never get through the 2 x IJA Divisions in front of them.

5.) Good point. Will do.

Really appreciate/enjoy this discussion! Keep it coming. My mind is buzzing what to do!




Alfred -> RE: 7th May 1942 (6/28/2010 7:56:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Hi guys,

Thanks for your thoughts (well other than Bruce[:'(]).

Alfred - really interesting. Am going to ponder a lot on what you say. Some quick thoughts/queries based on what you say

1.) Hankow - a fair point. My forces aren't strong enough to take it (1500 Allies vs 1000 Japanese). To explain my logic for having a 'forward defense' - I wanted to occupt the Japanese in either neutral ground or at their bases since it allows my bases to make supply and prevents theirs from doing so.

You're right though as it stands with the changing situation up north I may as well re-consider their use now. However, by withdrawing from around Hankow i'll also be opening up the front down south since Faber can then feely move troops from Hankow/Wuchow area?

I guess i'm kind of viewing the whole of China as a deck of cards and with things being unhinged up north once I move forces from further south I feel i'll have to move them all back since say I move from Hankow i'll also need to move from Wuchow and Sinyang wince Faber could easily surround/outnumber me there.

I guess if I did that I'd need to strongly hold behind the river at Ichang with my forces from Hankow and then I could use my Sinyang forces to move NW to support a fighting withdrawal from Nanyang?

Your "forward defense" was fair enough although your stated rationale has one important flaw. Unlike classical WITP, in WITP:AE the presence of enemy troops at a base does not stop the production of supply. Enemy troops at a base stop production of raw materials but not industrial production. If a base has either a stockpile of the necessary raw materials or an open LOC for the importation of raw materials, supply will still be produced locally.

Yes withdrawing from Hankow frees up the Penguin but so what. His focus is clearly on conquering the Chinese oilfields and there is nothing of comparable value to Japan in the south. It is quite a difficult task for Japan to maintain two huge offensives in China simultaneously. The terrain in the south is also, generally speaking more conducive for defensive operations thus you can economise on your deployments in the south, thereby releasing forces to create reserves. In the worst case scenario for you, it is better to lose cities in the south than it is to lose the oilfields of the north. If you think supply is bad now, imagine the situation when you no longer have oil/fuel to feed your industrial facilities.


2.) Agreed. There're already moving upto Nanyang direction after recently defeating 2 x IJA Bde's.

3.) I agree now. I was holding Faber there before and the 600 AV of IJA to the SE of Nanyang is still cut off from supply and surrounded. Maybe on moving the forces out of Sinyang  I could use these to bolster that pocket and try to annihilate it before Faber moves in from the east?

Sorry, I don't understand on what you base your claim that the 600 AV of the IJA SE of Nanyang is cut off from supply and surrounded. That enemy force is only three hexes away from Kaifeng or the dot base Kweitah (sp) with no Chinese units blocking the flow of supply from those bases. This is not classical WITP, now when troops leave a non base hex, they do not leave a residual ZOC in the vacated non base hex.


4.) Interesting thoughts. I guess I have to judge how much I can move out of Loyang/Chengchow. I am concerned of moving anythign out since with 37 IJA units around Chengchow and Loyang I feel I either need to hold with what I have at Chengchow or move them all out - i.e. by moving a few units to the NE/N of Loyang I'm diluting there defence further?

The forces NE of Tsiaotso currently have an amnesty since a bug prevented me from moving 6 corps to a position NE of Tsiaotso. When they arrive (tomorrow) I will shock attack the 1 x IJA Bde holding there.

The other Chinese forces further to the east SE of Yenan are to move toewards Yenan since they#ll never get through the 2 x IJA Divisions in front of them.

Firstly, many of those 37 enemy units are probably low quality units fit only for occupation duties, not combat. Others are probably auxiliary such as artillery regts (hence why I suggested previously to move out your artillery from Chungking). You should not take fright too easily.

Secondly, I am overall suggesting that you need to prepare the ground for a fighting withdrawal - trading space for time. Yes you will dilute your defences at Chengchow but in the face of a determined enemy offensive you can't stay there in your strength indefinitely because Loyang to your rear is much weaker. Lose Loyang and then you really will be facing the distinct possibility of being trapped in Chengchow. If you simply withdraw from Chengchow you don't gain the necessary time to set up the defences for Sian which will eventually be hit by 3 major Japanese columns.

Thirdly, that is a very dark shade of red for a single IJA bde at Tsiaotso. Are you sure that is all there is there?


5.) Good point. Will do.

Really appreciate/enjoy this discussion! Keep it coming. My mind is buzzing what to do!



Alfred




Speedysteve -> 8th May 1942 (6/28/2010 9:47:20 PM)

Hi all,

Hi Alfred - Good to know that supply is still produced in enemy interdicted bases when i'm there. Didn't know that [;)] In that case as you say my forward defence hasn't affected that at all! I guess at least it has allowed me free reign back at my bases and all of them have level 3/4 forts now.

I've mulled over a LOT of what you've said and I'm moving accordingly in China.

A map will probably show the movement easier but in summary Hankow is being evac'd for defence around Ichang. Sinyang forces moving NW back to Nanyang. On the way they will help reduce the enemy pocket surrounded by my troops (Alfred the Japanese are totally cut off with all entry points into the hex controlled by Allies - no supply can get into them - the map shows it better - all green hex sides).

The 1600 Jap AV stack SW of Chengchow smashed the final 3 Chinese Corps there today netting another 8000 casualties. Looks as though they're heading west towards Nanyang now. In total I have 1700 AV moving up from Sinyang, 700 more around the Nanyang Jap pocklet and a further 500 in Nayang. This SHOULD make it safe to hold for now.

My forces NE of Tsiaotso will shock attack the Bde there tomorrow (900 AV Allies vs 150 AV Japanese). Alfred - Tsaiotso itself has a reported 5 enemy units hence the dark red shade.

I'm also moving out 6 'Corps' from Chengchow west to start form a fighting withdrawal defence in the area.

What do you think of the above?

In the far west of China Faber conducted a Tank charge at Paoshan with surprising Chibnese casualties. Bloody tanks!:

Ground combat at Paoshan (65,45)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 4850 troops, 4 guns, 616 vehicles, Assault Value = 362

Defending force 11506 troops, 77 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 546

Japanese adjusted assault: 260

Allied adjusted defense: 847

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 3 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
29 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 61 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 97 (2 destroyed, 95 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
2213 casualties reported
Squads: 20 destroyed, 219 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 74 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled


Assaulting units:
5th Tank Regiment
1st Tank Regiment
14th Tank Regiment
56th Recon Regiment
10th Tank Regiment
11th Tank Regiment

Defending units:
36th Chinese Division
96th Chinese Division
56th Chinese Corps
200th Chinese Division
88th Chinese Division

All in all the rest of the Pacific is fairly quiet compared to this!

[image]local://upfiles/4211/3E048B36C2AE43CE91C7E992CBDA515F.jpg[/image]




Speedysteve -> 9th May 1942 (6/29/2010 11:08:28 AM)

Hi all,

The fun and games continue in China [;)]

A 'vital' lifeline is established by 5 x Corps and a Cavalry Corps NE of Tsiaotso causing 50% casualties and routing a Japanese Bde blocking their route west. That's another 900 AV that will be used to hold the rail line heading near Sian.

Further south after a bitter bitter struggle I've decided to abandon Chuhsien with forces moving west to strengthen my position around Nanchang.

It's amazing how China, when active, can really take your focus since there's a lot to potentially do there.

We attack again the isolated Japanese units near Nanyang tomorrow.

------------------------------

Other areas -

Fairly quiet elsewhere with no apparent Japanese moves other than trying to take Medan where I'm holding strong at the mo (Intel reports 18th Division en route so won't be long).

I'm slowly building up in Australia. Another USA Division will be at Sydney within 10 days.

16, 18th and 23rd British Bde's have de-trained in SW Aus around the Perth area. I feel fairly secure around here with 2 very strong and well experienced Divisions in the area (1 x Brit and 7th Australian Division) to back up the local militia.

1st and 3rd Motor Bde's are also almost upto strength as is 6th Aus Cavlary Bde.

I wonder how much Faber has/will bring to Australia or whether it's just a feint to occupy northern Australia..........

-------------------------------

Submarine warfare -

2 more dud attacks by my boys today.

[image]local://upfiles/4211/00E57BD969EC4C239F395444586DCD85.jpg[/image]




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