RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (Full Version)

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larryfulkerson -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/10/2009 9:47:39 AM)

Turn 9 is finished.  Patrick has made substantial gains in the far north and the far south and is pushing hard everywhere else inbetween.  There doesn't seem to be enough Allied troops to hold back the German tide.  Especially in the far north where the British are far outnumbered.  Those British troops that are there won't be able to hold back the Axis for very long and there are holes opening in the Allied lines in the far south.  The turn 9 moves map can be found at this url:

http://www.mediafire.com/?mgl2wlm2hzg



larryfulkerson -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/10/2009 9:57:26 AM)

I saw where Patrick had posted his turn 8 losses and thought it might be a good idea to post the Allied turn 8 losses also. Here they are.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/7DC33B9F724642E8BF2240247DB01B1A.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/10/2009 5:29:39 PM)

It's turn 10 and Patrick has punched holes in my lines and making progress in lots of spots. I got some reinforcements but they are too little too late. The Axis forces are winning all over the map.  You can find the moves map for turn 10 at this url:

http://www.mediafire.com/?n4d3tmkjljm



Jo van der Pluym -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/10/2009 7:18:38 PM)

Where can I find or download this scenario?



Abnormalmind -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/10/2009 7:33:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

It's turn 10 and Patrick has punched holes in my lines and making progress in lots of spots. I got some reinforcements but they are too little too late. The Axis forces are winning all over the map.  You can find the moves map for turn 10 at this url:

http://www.mediafire.com/?n4d3tmkjljm



You're being pessimistic! All my reserves are committed, and the advance is at a snail's pace. Those fortified units are extremely difficult.



L`zard -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/11/2009 11:48:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jo van der Pluym

Where can I find or download this scenario?


Get ahold of sPzAbt653 (steve sill) and he can send you the game....



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/12/2009 2:31:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: L`zard


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jo van der Pluym

Where can I find or download this scenario?


Get ahold of sPzAbt653 (steve sill) and he can send you the game....


Yes, thanks Kurt. If you go to my profile you can see my e-mail next to my name. I'm not sure if we have anybody playing against the PO yet. You don't need to post AAR's or even post, just be nice to have someone with a different play style from me test it out.



larryfulkerson -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/12/2009 2:42:36 AM)

Turn 11 is finished.  Patrick is making progress but I'm receiving some reinforcements.  Turn 11's moves map can be found at this url:

http://www.mediafire.com/?mzmheze2mzq



Abnormalmind -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/12/2009 5:57:08 AM)

I'll start posting some screen shots from my POV. I'm a novice, but will try to learn from Obi One Ka'Larry :)



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/12/2009 6:03:04 AM)

Hey guys, thanks for finding the thin situation in the north. I found some nice Allied situation maps, this one is from 12-16-44. It shows I am missing several divisions in that area. I will be making some changes. Sorry for giving you a northern flank headache Mr. Fulkerson, but the entire XXX Corps should be arriving, turn 12 I believe.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/09922A15520842A5B48088AB02AB5FC4.jpg[/image]



Abnormalmind -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/12/2009 7:05:34 AM)

[image]http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac265/abnormalmind/Autumn%20Fog%20playtest%201/Turn12Bastogne.png[/image]

End of turn 12 Axis:

The very heavy action northeast of Bastogne is depicted. The original plan was to sweep northwest through Stavelot and Stoumont which is about 15 hexes north of this area. However, the assault on Malmedy is just starting with two infantry divisions. The crossings over the Ambleve and Ourthe rivers are rocky, which prevents mechanized unit assaults. Only pure infantry can cross the rocky at the blown bridges. 1st SS (Peiper) was the first to the Ourthe. The division was unable to cross. If I had brought an infantry division on the heels of the 1st SS, I would have been across the Ourthe. However, all my infantry divisions were heavily engaged. The reinforcement divisions turned southwest towards Bastogne, the only option left to advance since the approach to Malmedy was a pipe dream at the time. The drive on Bastogne consists of seven panzer/mechanized divisions and four infantry divisions supported by the korp artillery. The advance stopped last turn, except for the Wiltz front, to re-supply and get things ready for the next push. It's a serious grind. The advance past Wiltz by 9th Panzer and 7th Fallschirmjager is rapid.

As most of you know, these divisions are the pinnacle of the German technology; King Tigers, Jadgpanthers, Tigers, and Panthers. They are brutal against the American armor. The US tank destroyers are doing a good job of slowing down the heavy armor, but it's a full court press and simply not enough American TDs in this sector.





Abnormalmind -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/12/2009 7:46:30 AM)

[image]http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac265/abnormalmind/Autumn%20Fog%20playtest%201/Grodeutschland.png[/image]

Großdeutschland Korp: End of Axis Turn 12

sPzAbt653 is adjusting this sector (as noted above) in his next scenario update. So don't expect to do this! That's the Meuse River, and yes the entire Korp is on the west side. Allied 6th Army and Axis 15th Army are not activated. I saw this potential on turn 5 when prompted for the GDK reinforcement location. Since both the 9th and 15th Armies were not activated and the advance on Malemdy, Stoumont, and Stavelot were already bogging down, high command ordered GDK to quickly capture the intact bridge over the Meuse, drive around the 15th Scots Infantry Division and hit it from the rear. The Scots were slow to activate and for some odd reason went into re-organization permitting GDK two full turns (1 day) to blitz. I believe the Scots artillery and HQ units were the only ones to escape the pocket. The corp(?) commander, Richie, was barely able to run for his life as three Panzer regiments were upon him at Weert. The last Scots brigade is cut off and hopelessly surrounded.

The GDK is in great position to threaten 9th Army's rear. Antwerp isn't really an option due to the long supply line. The Allied forces are numerous and a supply line cut too easy. Notice the intact rail (purple lines)? The Germans are slowly railing in additional assets.

Unless a ton of British show up in my rear, GDK is going to hunker down between the super rivers and Maastricht. The crossing at Maastricht is rocky, thus GDK cannot assault it when Larry blows the bridge. I might as well secure this sector and bring in scattered German assets. Should cause him to commit the Brits and a lot of grief...

I don't know the Allied reinforcement schedule or where they are appearing, so who knows. This all could backfire and I can kiss GDK goodbye.



Abnormalmind -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/12/2009 8:47:36 AM)

[image]http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac265/abnormalmind/Autumn%20Fog%20playtest%201/axis12malmedy.png[/image]

Malmedy Front: End of Axis Turn 12

This has been a grind since turn 1. In retrospect, the Germans should have pushed much harder. The American artillery is absolutely devastating. Each assault generally breaks up the German assault due to the hundreds of supporting American tubes. Pz Lehr was already committed to the line and withdrawn after unsuccessfully assaulting the American fortified positions. It's licking its wounds in the rear. The American artillery chews up assault after assault, no matter how minor the assault. Larry had a decimated tank brigade hold up the entire advance for 4+ days simply due to the unit being fortified and supported by all that artillery.

The operation is using two panzer divisions and four infantry divisions. The infantry is mostly done, but hopefully it will do the job at Malmedy by forcing the US engineer defender off. Robertsville will be much tougher, and I'm not sure if it's worth the men and materials. Both towns are rocky terrain, thus it will be an infantry only assault. First Malmedy, and then I'll evaluate the conditions of the remaining volksgrendiers. Most of the German panzer divisions head off to the Eastern Front around turn 52... so whatever is taken has to be held by the infantry.



Abnormalmind -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/12/2009 9:15:23 AM)

[image]http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac265/abnormalmind/Autumn%20Fog%20playtest%201/Rambo.png[/image]

Rambo Award

Every have that one pain the backside enemy unit that refuses to break or surrender? Ever beat yourself up against it turn after turn, only for it to mock you? I award those rare enemy units the prestigious Rambo Award.

The 707th Tank of the 24th US Infantry Division has distinguished itself for 8+ turns, more than four full days. The 5th FJD surrounded and cut it off. It's completely isolated. The problem isn't shown on this image: all the dang US artillery on the other side of the river that supports its defense. The Skorzeny Brigade has been called in to settle this matter once and for all. Its 36 panther tanks and 55 assault anti-tank squads should force the issue. Win or lose, something has to give soon. I cannot afford a counter attack in this area. That 20-12 US armor regiment looks itching for a fight, and I dread what it can do to the 5th FJD!



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/12/2009 10:35:46 AM)

quote:

Every have that one pain the backside enemy unit that refuses to break or surrender?


Yes, [:@]. Have you tried artillery only for one round? Sometimes that evaporates them.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/12/2009 10:52:23 AM)

There are proximity warnings in the event list all over, two of them in this area at the red lines. But the northern one wasn't actually tied to anything, dammit. I was also under the impression that XXX Corps was historically farther to the north, off map. But that's apparently not the case. So I've started making corrections. The units look like what's in this shot so far, and now I have to go thru the event list to make sure everything is covered.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/E7EAD68CB0BB4C7B899B822ABF8501FF.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/12/2009 12:05:45 PM)

It's turn 12 and XXX corps has arrived although it's still in reorg and can't be moved.  Patrick says he's not interested in trying to capture Antwerp but instead is sweeping south to cut off the Allied units from their supply lines.  Earlier reinforcements are reaching the battlefield and are starting to make a difference in that Patrick's advance has slowed down considerably.  The turn 12 moves map can be found at this url:

http://www.mediafire.com/?mnnkezhmun4



Abnormalmind -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/12/2009 12:12:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

Every have that one pain the backside enemy unit that refuses to break or surrender?


Yes, [:@]. Have you tried artillery only for one round? Sometimes that evaporates them.


Oh yes, I have tried. There is a stack of 6(?) artillery two hexes away and some more at range three. I tried bombardments to un-fortify Mr. Rambo, but absolutely no luck doing any damage. There simply isn't much left to the Rambo unit. It's laughing at me. I'm going to need therapy.



Abnormalmind -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/12/2009 1:51:39 PM)

Turn 13 was a bad one. The weather worsened causing movement costs to increase even on improved roads. I realized that 30th Corp appeared dead ahead of GDK but was lucky it was stuck reorganizing. GDK has reversed course and is backtracking the heck out of there. 30th Corp looks huge. The German immediate stockpiles are depleted causing a force supply reduction of 10 percent *ouch*. More German units are getting limited to 1 movement point due to fuel issues, although random.

Rambo survived more assaults including an all out attack by the Skorzeny Brigade. The American artillery keeps forcing my Fallschirmjagers to break off even from all out attacks from 4 cardinal directions.

There's nothing I can do to neutralize the US artillery. My victory point penalty due to losses is now at -21. Larry is reported at -11.

I tried to shell the engineer at Malmedy out of the trenches, but two full bombardments which included a lot of really heavy caliber tubes from the railroad guns failed to dislodge the engineer. The shelling did little damage. The volksgrenadiers are ready to assault when the engineer unit is dislodge. The Germans are going to limit their losses to the US grand batteries from now on out.

The 15th Scots Division is no more. GDK was able to defeat the last brigade. The Korp's retreat path is now clear, although it accomplished no strategic objectives. It did scare the bejeezers out of Larry.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/12/2009 5:53:43 PM)

quote:

XXX corps has arrived although it's still in reorg and can't be moved.


Ok, at least part of the events worked. What you have now is the historical XXX Corps, the one that shows up at the Meuse to protect those crossings, and doesn't get involved in the main battle. My contingency for XXX Corps to arrive earlier if the Germans approached the Meuse crossings earlier didn't work. Huge apologies for that. So I'll go ahead and scrap that chain of events and configure XXX Corps to be more conventional.

From a design standpoint, the issue is this: If XXX Corps shows up at the Meuse on turn 12 not in garrison mode, the player will obviously move them into the Ardenne area. Forget house rules, I'm putting them in garrison mode on arrival. They get released locally when a German unit threatens their crossing (um, if that works). They also get completely released later in the game when they were used historically to advance along the northern edge of the map (um, if that works). For the future, now that I'm redoing the XXX Corps events, I just have to make sure that some divisions become available for when Obergruppenfuhrer Patrick crosses the Meuse at the northern Roermond area!

In this current playtest, I think it's easy for all us to assume that XXX Corps wouldn't be stationed far to the west if the Germans were threatening Liege. I think Mr. Fulkerson is at a disadvantage unless one of the XXX Corps release triggers actually trips and gives him those units. If you both were interested in continuing, maybe by way of compensation Partick can trip the northern and southern releases. This gives Mr. Fulkerson more units to work with.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/12/2009 6:12:52 PM)

Another thing I'm thinking of doing while I'm making these changes is to get rid of this southern shoulder. You guys don't have it in play yet, but in my playtests it's nothing but a source of aggravation and foolishness. My idea is to remove the American units and extend the non-playable hexes right up to the German lines. The German units will be left in their current positions in garrison mode until a point later in the scenario when they will be released to either defend that line, or to fall back and help the retreating Germans defend. If they fall back, the original American units will arrive to pursue.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/0961993982F44DA8B2D811DCF5FA753B.jpg[/image]



Abnormalmind -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/12/2009 11:26:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

XXX corps has arrived although it's still in reorg and can't be moved.


Ok, at least part of the events worked. What you have now is the historical XXX Corps, the one that shows up at the Meuse to protect those crossings, and doesn't get involved in the main battle. My contingency for XXX Corps to arrive earlier if the Germans approached the Meuse crossings earlier didn't work. Huge apologies for that. So I'll go ahead and scrap that chain of events and configure XXX Corps to be more conventional.

From a design standpoint, the issue is this: If XXX Corps shows up at the Meuse on turn 12 not in garrison mode, the player will obviously move them into the Ardenne area. Forget house rules, I'm putting them in garrison mode on arrival. They get released locally when a German unit threatens their crossing (um, if that works). They also get completely released later in the game when they were used historically to advance along the northern edge of the map (um, if that works). For the future, now that I'm redoing the XXX Corps events, I just have to make sure that some divisions become available for when Obergruppenfuhrer Patrick crosses the Meuse at the northern Roermond area!

In this current playtest, I think it's easy for all us to assume that XXX Corps wouldn't be stationed far to the west if the Germans were threatening Liege. I think Mr. Fulkerson is at a disadvantage unless one of the XXX Corps release triggers actually trips and gives him those units. If you both were interested in continuing, maybe by way of compensation Partick can trip the northern and southern releases. This gives Mr. Fulkerson more units to work with.


I released the Axis 15th and the Allied 9th armies this turn, and GDK pulled back to the river. This should allow us to continue, although 9th Army could head east and not towards GDK. lol

I like the revised forces in the area for the allies. Perhaps blow the bridge over the Meuse for scenario balance? This will give both sides a heads up if a map edge attack is being prepared.



Abnormalmind -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/13/2009 12:08:09 AM)

[image]http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac265/abnormalmind/Autumn%20Fog%20playtest%201/axis14Rambo.png[/image]

[image]http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac265/abnormalmind/Autumn%20Fog%20playtest%201/RamboForces.png[/image]

Rambo Report Axis Turn 14 [&o]

There were three combat rounds this turn. The first attack used the available units to the northeast and southeast. 5 FJD started the turn reorganizing. The first attack made it through the defensive bombardment but only managed to knock out a halftrack. The second attack from the Skorzeny Brigade from the southwest hit the Rambo unit in the "rear." Unit facings are sticky(?), so the early attack forced Rambo to face either NE or SE. However, the first Skorzeny all out assault was stopped by US artillery. The second all out assault knocked out 1 Sherman. As you can see, the US armor has absolutely no supporting infantry. This is generally a really bad situation.

I guess TOAW only checks anti-armor values against armor values...(?) If I had been in command, I'd have sent out 100 men with panzerfausts and supporting assault squads at dark 03:00 to finish this.

I'm tempted to bring the Hermann Göring Division down from St. Vith to deal with Rambo. lol



larryfulkerson -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/13/2009 12:58:33 AM)

Disaster ! Patrick has succeeded in isolating a major portion of my defenders NE of Bastone. With no supply they will be systematically destroyed pretty soon. And there's not a whole lot I can do about it either.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/955FB9EC18A54D2BAE6066D05AF8A13B.gif[/image]



Abnormalmind -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/13/2009 1:16:49 AM)

[image]http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac265/abnormalmind/Autumn%20Fog%20playtest%201/axis14malmedy.png[/image]

Malmedy Axis Turn 14

After a day of bombardment, two combat rounds last turn and first combat round this turn, the US engineer broke from fortify. The volksgrenadiers launched an all out assault. The defender was forced to retreat. Ironically, none of the volks have enough movement to occupy Malmedy. I wonder if I'm going to have to do this again. Fortunately, the US units are almost all mechanized and cannot assault to retake Malmedy.

2nd Pz was pulled out and sent towards Saint Vith.

116th Pz reorganized last turn, and was pulled from the line this turn.

The Axis replacement pool is a skeleton. I may disband some of the 116th Pz to add replacements to the pool.



larryfulkerson -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/13/2009 3:16:56 AM)

I forgot to post the moves map from turn 13.  Patrick is still making progress in the south and the northern group pulled back to the east so I'm pushing unit in there to reclaim the territory, not that it will do all that much good.  Anyway, turn 13's moves map is at this url:

http://www.mediafire.com/?mwiju3hwmnu



larryfulkerson -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/13/2009 3:37:36 AM)

In turn 14 the Germans isolated and cut off from supplies a major portion of my defenders near Bastone. 
The Allies finally got some aircraft and I put the Typhoon's, P-47's, and Black Widows on combat support and
everybody else on air superiority.  I made a lot of counterattacks to try to save my forces near Bastone but
they all bounced off the Germans.  The turn 14 moves map is found at this url:

http://www.mediafire.com/?qzbknmm2mmt



larryfulkerson -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/13/2009 3:44:46 AM)

Here's the minimap moves movie from turns 1 throu 13 showing the extent of the German advance so far. Sorry it's so small.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/7336108B1271496CB9C005B247B85028.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/14/2009 12:44:59 AM)

Patrick continues in turn 15 to make gains in the south and pull back to the blue line in the middle and has positioned strong units as roadblocks in the north.  He got his aircraft this turn and there were some fierce air-to-air battles.  Most of XXX corps is still in garrison mode and almost useless.  The turn 15 moves map can be found at this url:

http://www.mediafire.com/?jczftojnzdn



Abnormalmind -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/14/2009 6:34:29 AM)

I'm getting trounced. Larry has about 1,000 planes on close air support and 100,000 tubes of artillery. I may be exaggerating about the artillery, but not the planes. I performed a small attack on turn 16. The combat report showed 1,000 planes flying in to support the defender in a regiment per hex scenario. heheheh Rough!  Germans are pulling back now to the rivers. Larry is slowly grinding towards the major rivers, too. It's going to be 64 turns of grinding as I refuse to advance any further and only hope to hold on to some of what I captured.



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