RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (Full Version)

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports



Message

Nemo121 -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/14/2010 11:25:26 PM)

Hmm, lots to think about there. I'm going to have a look at the editor and figure out how that works in practice. I think that it comes down to a philosophical difference....

You, and the design team in general, have tried to hew a line in which the game is part simulation and part historical wargame insofar as it models the conflict but you want it to unfold along certain general lines and have put in constraints to make sure it does so. Once that happens assumptions about force destruction and replacement which were historical but may have no basis in the particular strategies being followed in-game become reasonable choices.

My view is that this is a game system in which I want the combat model to be as accurate as possible and the starting positions to be as accurate as possible ( or a little enhanced for a fun game ) but once the "Go" button is pressed then anything that could happen in real life ( even if it didn't ) is fair game. This means that force creation or restriction based on the historical way things turned out is antithetical to this free-flowing, open concept.

I think that's where the difference lies really. My initial take is just to undo all the permanent restrictions and have them ordinarily restricted and leave it at that.



In terms of the game....

1EyedJacks is crowing about sinking about a dozen xAKls and a few xAKs and xAPs around Singapore/Sumatra but this tells me much about him....
a) He is massively misusing KB in a most serious manner. He is using his most powerful force, a force capable of decisive strategic decision when applied at a critical point to dominate an area of no more than 12 x 12 hexes running from Singapore south to Balikpapan and from Palembang to Brunei. This is a trifling area to control and also a serious misuse of this asset. Merely by docking KB he could threaten far more than these 150 or so hexes.

b) He is actually celebrating the sinking of the shipping around Sumatra.... Last turn he sank about a dozen xAKls and downed about 18 Dutch fighters. In return, however, KB lost roughly the same number of planes.

In return for these sinkings what did I achieve?
1. I managed to have Force Z escape from Manilla.
2. I managed to pull both 223rd and 224th RAF HQs out of Singapore.
3. I managed to land several UK, Indian and Ozzie forces at Oosthaven.

Overall I think that he's sunk a few ships but, strategically, I'm achieving my goals... Its a crazy, crazy situation.

Currently Sumatra has some 910 AV defending it, 3 Aerial HQs capable of allowing torpedo supply ( and I have about 80 Catalinas and another 40 or so UK torpedo bombers which can launch torpedoes --- giving me a salvo strength of some 200 torpedoes per day once an invasion TF shows itself ) and can fly in about 50 AV per day from the Dutch. The more I look at it the more I think I should be able to fly significant portions of the Malaysian defenders out also.

I'm aiming, at present, for a total defensive strength of 1600 AV by the end of December behind Level 4 fortifications and with roughly 500 planes deployed between 3 main airbases. If I can make it to mid-January then I have a cunning and malevolent plan which should boost my defences significantly.

That will have to depend on Mike continuing his significant mis-deployment of strategic assets though. KB can dominate wherever it goes. If it leaves this area I'll have to scrap my plans, if it stays here then I have strategic freedom ( which is crazy this early on in the war ).



Andy Mac -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/14/2010 11:51:40 PM)

Just to add my tuppence worth on this one because I was more or less responsible for the restricted nature of LCU's at least on the allied side.

We also faced a tough decision about what units to make permanently restricted and being brutally honest some of it was done for play balance reasons.

Certainly the bits i did

There arent actually that many units outside of China permanently restricted.

For the CW and Brits

the Malay Bns and SSVF units i.e. the locally raised militias are perm restricted as they would not have left their homeland if ordered to go to India 90% would have deserted....thats why those units are perm restricted

the same logic should apply to the burmese but as they had more Indian/Ghurka units and a low replacement rate for the main squads so I made the on balance decision that they should not be perm restricted

Australia nothing is perm restricted

NZ a mix is perm restricted the local small 'town base forces' are perm restricted as are about 40% of the mitilia largely because there is no way the Kiwis would abandon their entire homeland and the local economies were so dependent on those bases that it just was never going to happen - its slightly questionable but if I hadnt done it every one of those smal town base forces would have been stripped out of NZ and sent to the front so I think its the right call.

China - Chiang could barely control them the thought of Chinese Armies Amphib assaulting Java is just nuts so they are all perm restricted esxcept for a couple of Armies that may be bouth out.

India - only really the frontier Bds (perm restricted because these were more or less permanent locations that had existed for a hundred years they just werent available for overseas service) and a few other small ISF units that had legal reasons for not being allowed to be deployed elsewhere are perm restricted

Dutch - most of the combat units are not perm restricted - about 70% of the base forces are perm restricted agaion the mis was to try and stop the generic base forces using standard av support and eng devices filling back up in a way that just wasnt possible due to lack of dutch soldiers - I allowed about 8 to be unrestricted the rest were tied down

PI - It was the same logic tell them to go to Australia and most would go guerilla or go home the thought of a 10 Div PI force in Australia is one of those it could never happen things





Nemo121 -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/14/2010 11:59:08 PM)

Aye, for the Malaysian and PI units I agree. Same for most of the Chinese ( although maybe not their New Divisions )...

In short, I don't have much of a problem with the LCU perma-restrictions... I might change a few but essentially I drew the conclusion that you were modelling "native levies" as being perma-restricted and agreed with it.

My problem really comes with American units and the like which are perma-restricted. I will be changing them cause I think USAAF squadrons could have redeployed if political considerations had been different.

Thanks for the explanation though. It is illuminating and, I think, will help others when trying to come to terms with this perma-restriction issue.



Andy Mac -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/15/2010 12:04:58 AM)

Most of the US LCU's that are permanent restricted are units that are heading out of theatre to Torch etc so they were available to preserve the West Coast but not really for overseas service.

Unless you increase PP's you will barely have enough to get the units you need to buy out bought out



Andy Mac -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/15/2010 12:06:33 AM)

The New Divs were hard some served with NCAC so you get those but the rest were really depositaries for Chiangs gifts from the US which is why they get a stronger TOE but he was never goign to let them go as they were his weapons for fighting Mao and keeping the rest of the Warlords in line



bklooste -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/15/2010 2:06:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Aye, for the Malaysian and PI units I agree. Same for most of the Chinese ( although maybe not their New Divisions )...

In short, I don't have much of a problem with the LCU perma-restrictions... I might change a few but essentially I drew the conclusion that you were modelling "native levies" as being perma-restricted and agreed with it.

My problem really comes with American units and the like which are perma-restricted. I will be changing them cause I think USAAF squadrons could have redeployed if political considerations had been different.

Thanks for the explanation though. It is illuminating and, I think, will help others when trying to come to terms with this perma-restriction issue.


Regarding the restriction of allies following a historical pre defined path is shown even more in the Japanese naval and air OOB . Many ships and aircraft were built and / modified based on certain results esp Midway eg the Ibuki as CVL , Mogami and Ise Conversions to name just a few...The introduction of CV based air lost priority etc . The crippling of merchant capacity reduced the planned warships and quality ( and massively boosted merchant production) which also would not have occured had Japan used a Convoy system since 1941. PI restrictions are just the tip of the iceberg yet it becomes more and more difficult to handle the what iffs. I heard someone was planning a mod with basic hulls with conversions to anything and hence the player can choose what he wants.



Q-Ball -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/15/2010 10:58:34 PM)

Nemo, interesting read, I appreciate your strategic outlook which is why I am going to be following this AAR.

I will be following the Southern Sumatra gambit, because I think it does speak to the Allied grand strategic objectives. I personally think the Allies have only 2 grand strategic objectives:

1. Stop the flow of OIL/FUEL from the DEI to Japan, by destroying Oil facilities, sinking TKs, occupying territory, whatever....just stop it
2. Secure a sufficient platform from which to strategically bomb Japan, and be able to get supplies to it.

Period, the end. The Southern Sumatra campaign speaks to #1.



bigred -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/16/2010 3:01:51 AM)

Reguarding the Singers evac plan to Palembang.. Can you base some FT at Palembang and order a evac run up tp Singers every turn?



Nemo121 -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/16/2010 3:22:16 AM)

Yeah I've tried doing that but I can't get FT TFs to work at all. Are there pre-conditions I need to fulfill in terms of the troops being in a specific mode?... I've tried it with both strategic move and combat opmode troops but no joy....

What I have found strange is that when I try to fly ABDA units ( e.g. at Kuching etc ) into bases which don't already have ABDA troops in I get a "Can't move restricted troops" message but once I have some ABDA troops in my southern Sumatra base I can THEN fly ABDA troops from anywhere on the map into it.

In addition basing an FT TF at Palembang would just have KB sink it... Right now I plan to just send a trickly of AKls in to keep him occupied there whilst saving up my proper AKs and APs ( with the British and Commonwealth contingents ) for later on when KB moves back to refuel and reprovision.


I get another USN CV in 10 days, which would give me 4 USN CVs... It does make one think doesn't it? Even with crappy fighters I'm sure that many CVs, backed up by a significant portion of the USN fleet could probably achieve something significant.... certainly a very useful spoiling force.

Apart from the CVs I am positioning some forces for a spoiling attack into some Japanese territory. I don't intend to hold it but I do intend to cause him to begin diverting some forces along axes not of his choosing. That'll tend to remove forces from the tip of the spear at Palembang and might buy me some time.




bigred -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/16/2010 4:59:32 AM)

If the jap port strikes your DDs at palembang as the TF evac return what happens to the refinery?



Alfred -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/16/2010 6:17:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Yeah I've tried doing that but I can't get FT TFs to work at all. Are there pre-conditions I need to fulfill in terms of the troops being in a specific mode?... I've tried it with both strategic move and combat opmode troops but no joy....



Check to see that the Allied ships you are putting into a FT TF actually have a dedicated capacity to carry troops. This is one reason why Allied APDs are useful.

Alfred



Nemo121 -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/16/2010 3:15:57 PM)

I've been reading AARs and have come to a few tentative conclusions/hypotheses...

1. Both sides are on a major learning curve and thus most players are very much hewing to the conventional wisdom --- which in the early days of any situation tends toward the conventional and cautious.


2. Where Allied players HAVE fought forward they either:
a) are destroyed rapidly and relatively piecemeal or
b) they tend to concentrate and manage to hold a toehold ( at massive cost ) from which they can harrass and expand at a later date.

Which group one falls into tends to be determined by the interface between one's own cautiousness and the enemy's aggressiveness. The more cautious the Allied player and aggressive the Japanese player the more likely the Allied player is to get destroyed piecemeal. I think this AAR might provide an opportunity to examine the obverse.


3. Very few players of either side are intentionally seeking to complicate their opponent's strategic situation ( either at all or sufficiently ). When they do try it oftentimes they are only complicating his operational or, even, tactical situation. What's worse the Allied players tend to try to complicate the situation less than the Japanese players.


4. Whenever there's a focus on initiative it is all too often focussed on the simplistic concept of gaining the initiative --- and, if we're honest, the conventional wisdom among Allied players means that, for most of them, it consists of bemoaning the possibility of gaining the initiative until such time as the flow of material makes said gaining of initiative inevitable... and when logistics make something inevitable one doesn't need to exercise a lot of competence to make it so... although sometimes people do manage to make the inevitable evitable [8D]

Anyways, I haven't seen a single instance where anyone has intentionally utilised the enemy's maintenance of initiative to manoeuvre that enemy into a killsack of the player's choosing. This is a major mistake, I don't have time to get into it in detail now but I'll give a very simple overview which misses out the complexities which really constitute the mind-f**k portions of the operation.

Initiative is ONLY useful to an enemy as long as that enemy uses that appropriately.... What is appropriate usage? Either for attritional, positional or indirect advantage. Attritional - killing yours at a more advantageous exchange rate than you kill his. Note that doesn't mean killing more of yours than you kill of his but merely a more advantageous exchange rate. Less than 1:1 exchange rates can still be more than adequate for a given force, position or time. Positional - Taking crucial terrain which has strategic/operational and tactical value can be useful. Indirect advantage - Anything which isn't positional or attritional but still gains advantage - often operations aimed at shaping the battlefield for a decisive strike at a later date or just operations aimed at shaping the enemy's appreciation ( IOW, ensuring s/he misappreciates the situation ).

In attempting to wrest the initiative from an enemy you must expend men, materiel and the element of surprise --- as it is pretty difficult to mass a major force to surprise an enemy as they move on one of your bases if, for the past 2 months you've been fighting tooth and claw to prevent the enemy moving on that base. It'd take an idiot to think that after 2 months of fighting you won't mass a major force for its defence if it is at all possible --- Of course sometimes idiocy does strike but one shouldn't rely on it as a necessary component of a plan. In addition to the loss of surprise you are losing men and materiel to wrest the initiative such that when you spring your surprise it has less force behind it than it otherwise might have and, if your prior shaping of the battlefield hasn't been exquisite, in wresting the initiative from the enemy and towards a point of balance in which it could tip in either direction you now are in a situation in which you don't have the forces to wrest it fully in your direction --- and the last two months have been for nothing as the enemy regains the initiative.

So, why not let the enemy have the initiative and let him use that initiative to attack what you want, how you want and, if you've done your job well, when you want. Expend small forces to shape that battlefield so that the enemy commander chooses ( of his own volition ) to follow your plan. Shaping the battlefield should, if you do it right, cost less than trying to wrest the initiative and maintain the element of surprise. The end result is, hopefully, a much greater chance of winning the battle at the critical point and time ( fulcrum, if you will ) as you bring much greater force to bear with greater surprise than would otherwise be the case.


And yeah, it's all a fancy way of doing the Boyd shuffle [:D] OODA every time. I've seen people die for real when someone's OODA loop got overwhelmed and so I'm a believer. I should also point out that the cognitive dissonance between meeting resistance at a point where the enemy has been fighting for a significant period of time ( and thus there's little surprise ) is minimal compared to the dissonance which results when the enemy uses their initiative to place themselves in an unexpected position.


Right now Mike should be commenting about the minimal resistance he's seen. I expect he's referenced Sir Robin already but he's not a poor enough player to think that I'm Sir Robinning entirely. He's probably wondering where I'll strike... He half expects it in the Pacific and so he should be sending some reinforcements to bolster his defences there. I plan to 1,2 him in the Pacific showing him something he expects, another thing he half-expects and a third thing he never expected and which should rattle him, letting him feel he's still in control, then moving him a little more out of control and then finally forcing him to rethink his OODA loop for the Pacific entirely. This action in the Pacific will be designed to shape the battlefield in Sumatra and make sure he comes there at a time and in a manner and with a weight of my choosing.

How will it do that? Simple, I will control the inputs into the Observation portion of his OODA loop, by controlling their timing ( and metering them to my assessment of his abilities and personality --- which is coming together nicely ) I control his Orientation and through controlling those two aspects I should control both the tempo and substance of his Decision-making. Since geography and decisiveness determine the speed with which he can put his Decisions into Action ( in a low-friction environment like AE ) I should also have a pretty good idea of how quickly his decisions can be put into action at a particular point. To speed him up I can provide new inputs to his observation ( in-game ) and orientation ( via email ) which speak of weakness etc, to slow him down I merely meter out inputs ( either sightings, email comments or combats ) which should act to slow him down a little. Pretty simple in concept really.

By doing the above it is possible to get the enemy to think they are making the decisions ( and they are ), doing the planning ( and they are ) and deciding what to send where and when ( and they are ) all while they are, unintentionally, conforming their planning to your own, pre-dating plan. That's the best way to get them to swan into town dumb, fat and happy.


In other news: In friendly games I expect there to be a good fair fight but I dislike people seeking advantage for advantage sake. I have raised the issue of CD guns with Mike and suggested that we limit actual amphibious TFs to being escorted by "proper warships" like DDs, CLs, CAs etc and no more than 8 per amphibious TF. That way the CD guns get a fair bash at a few escorts and might hit a few AKs or APs. Mike has countered that he isn't sure this is fair ( even though it is designed to ameliorate the effect of a clear code defect ) and would like CD guns to be placed in Strategic Movement mode for 2/52 after arrival at any place if he were to countenance accepting it.

Personally I think that I was very clear that I would HR any code defects and find being asked to accept a further diminution in effectiveness in order for him to accept a HR which compensates for a code defect which massively favours him to be in somewhat questionable form. I'll give way on this if he insists but I should point out that as these PBEMs are relaxation and friendly I only apply very gentle, limited psyops within them, guiding people a bit this way or that. If he now turns down a HR for broken code - which was the one stipulation I had when agreeing the game - then he should expect the psyops to be significantly more weapons free... and full-on psyops will probably be significantly less enjoyable for him as guiding someone a bit one way or the other is gentle... targetting their faith in their own judement and increasing their stress levels etc is significantly less gentle and something I would find excessive in a friendly game. But... if this is a game where he seeks advantage from HRs then I amn't going to tie my hands behind my back.



Smeulders -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/16/2010 6:42:21 PM)

I don't think any HR is really needed for CD guns, the problem with the PH invasions seem to be that the algorithm gets in trouble in outlier battles with hundreds of ships, I've yet to see problems with smaller CD gun formations against smaller landings.



bklooste -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/17/2010 4:02:07 AM)

Agree the invasion change would greatly aid Japan ..I think limiting the invasions to 8 ships is a bit small but banning sub DD escorts is appropopriate. Bonbardment forces cant really help too much since bombard seems not very potent , i doubt they will hit the CD units leaving them unsurpressed for the landing phase.

What do you think about using your CV units from land as they are or using refittin with less valueble planes / pilots ? Especially for Java /Palambang ?



Nemo121 -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/17/2010 1:28:20 PM)

bklooste,

Just to be clear... I amn't arguing that invasion TFs should be limited to 8 ships. I am arguing they should have no more than 8 escorts and those escorts should be DD or above in size. They can be accompanied by as many bombardment TFs, SC TFs etc as the other player wants BUT they shouldn't be allowed to stack the amphibious TF with so many low-value ships that the APs and AKs are, effectively, immune to coastal defences due to the CD gun regime's coding.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 9th Infantry Regiment, at 81,80

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 43 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes


Allied aircraft
B-17D Fortress x 13


Allied aircraft losses
B-17D Fortress: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
96 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled



Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-17D Fortress bombing from 6000 feet *
Ground Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x B-17D Fortress bombing from 6000 feet *
Ground Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-17D Fortress bombing from 6000 feet *
Ground Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
2 x B-17D Fortress bombing from 6000 feet *
Ground Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Also attacking Kimura Det ...
Also attacking 16th Engineer Regiment ...
Also attacking 20th Infantry Regiment ...
Also attacking Kimura Det ...

I have moved some 750 AV down south of Manilla in the hopes of defeating the IJA landings near Legaspi in detail. I'm splitting my forces and leaving Manilla quite understrength for a period of time but I think it is worth the risk as destroying this landing would give me significantly improved mobility in the Phillipines and will garner quite a bit of experience for my troops. It should also make Mike a bit more cautious with his landings and buy me even more time for Sumatra.

It also looks like ground attacks on enemy troops are increasingly effective. Good to know, I think I've found a use for all my Dutch bombers.


Afternoon Air attack on 192nd Tank Battalion, at 81,80

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 12 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 45



Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 6 damaged


Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 14 (3 destroyed, 11 disabled)


Aircraft Attacking:
15 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
15 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
15 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

I was worried when I saw these losses, I thought I'd just lost about 1/3rd of my tanks but, fortunately, it appears most of the disablements were repaired by the combat the next day.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 81,80

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 10922 troops, 114 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 365

Defending force 4309 troops, 0 guns, 207 vehicles, Assault Value = 260

Japanese adjusted assault: 142

Allied adjusted defense: 140

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1324 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 66 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 73 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled


Allied ground losses:
192 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 15 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 41 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 64 (5 destroyed, 59 disabled)


Assaulting units:
9th Infantry Regiment
16th Engineer Regiment
20th Infantry Regiment
Kimura Det

Defending units:
194th Tank Battalion
1st PA Constabulary Regiment
192nd Tank Battalion
2nd PA Constabulary Regiment

So, overall, I disabled a lot more squads but they should be repaired within a couple of days. This should draw the remaining LCUs up from Legaspi and as they arrive so should my reinforcements. It appears that the Japanese have about 15,000 troops at 81,80 and 5,000 at Legaspi. So, let's assume he boosts his AV from 365 to 450. I will have about 750 AV and even with a halving for my experience levels if I combine the assault with aerial attacks I think I might have a chance of pushing the Japanese back.

The high-experience US Regiment in the Phillipines is also on the way but is more than 2 days away. I'm tempted to wait for it in any case as I expect that its extra experience should come in very handy but I'm wary of more IJA forces landing.

In other news, KB continued cruising down the straits between Java and Borneo and sank a damaged British DD - Thanet - west of Kendari. Force Z and the various CLs and CAs defending Java all managed to get away in time so my naval defence remains intact.

Today I also received my first Hurricane II (Tropical ) and have immediately loaded it for transport to Sumatra. Hopefully this'll fare better than the Buffaloes. 2 groups of AVG are also now based at Palembang. I figure that 48 planes of AVG and another 16 or so Hurricane IIs is a good basis for my aerial defence.



bklooste -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/18/2010 7:08:39 AM)

quote:

Just to be clear... I amn't arguing that invasion TFs should be limited to 8 ships. I am arguing they should have no more than 8 escorts and those escorts should be DD or above in size. They can be accompanied by as many bombardment TFs, SC TFs etc as the other player wants BUT they shouldn't be allowed to stack the amphibious TF with so many low-value ships that the APs and AKs are, effectively, immune to coastal defences due to the CD gun regime's coding.


Cant argue with that , 8 is enough and i agree with DD+ .... Your oponents aar made it sound like 8 ships. And i think its to his advantage as after mid 42 he wont be making many invasions....



bklooste -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/18/2010 7:16:01 AM)

What are your fellings on Java ? You cant get much out . Im leaning towards moving nearly everything in Surabaya to Samurang and Batavia to Mirak if they do land at Surabaya or Batavia i will loose in 1-2 days but the CDs will get me more than i get for the whole Java campaign normally  esp with a Destroyer + house rule .



Nemo121 -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/18/2010 12:12:08 PM)

bklooste,
I don't care about advantage. My goal is to get something fair to both sides. I think this is.

you can't get much out.

Really? No, I think I should be able to evacuate almost every soldier and plane from Java into Sumatra. I have PBYs and Do-24s as well as some DC2s and DC3s in the area. I have the capability of flying roughly 600 to 800 men per day into Sumatra. At present I am using the PBY-4s to fly in the far-lying garrisons ( Menado etc ) while the PBY-5s focus on flying in troops from Tarakan, Balikpapan, Kuching and the DC2s and DC3s focus on flying in nearby troops.

I'm stripping the small forces out of bases like Miri, Kuching, Balikpapan etc as those bases can't hope to stand against the Japanese invasion TFs and so it is better to consolidate their forces in bases which CAN benefit from the extra troops.


Right now I have over 40,000 troops in Sumatra, including over 300 Aviation support points, just under 200 engineers and have Level 3 forts at Palembang and Level 2 forts at Oosthaven.

As KB has evacuated the area to replenish I have decided to send in about a half-dozen transports to Singapore to pull out the first of the combat units there assigned to III Indian Corps. I expect Mike will try to stop me so I've sent 2 AVG units and a few Buffalo squadrons in to help out. Hopefully that will negatively impact his air raids.

I have also decided that I am going to try to get Palembang up to just over 100,000 tons of supplies and to that aim I am creating a supply convoy in India which is going to try to bring 60,000 tons+ into Oosthaven. The goal here is to get enough supplies to allow rapid rebuilding of forces.... I also think that if I get 100,000 tons of supplies I might be able to disband some of the small Dutch units I save into the pool and allow their troops to go into more rapid rebuilding of the larger Dutch units.

In short, if he doesn't hit Java by mid-January I will have all of the Dutch troops evacuated ( except for whatever can't be air-transported ). Obviously though I mightn't focus just on the Dutch until mid-January. I will probably fly out a few UK Base Forces and portions of the Commonwealth defenders of Singapore at the same time.

This will allow me to get close to or reach my target of 800 AV per base ( oosthaven and Palembang.... Benkoenen will get a lot less as it is less likely to be invaded --- my understanding is that since I hold Oosthaven it would function as a strait and allow my CD guns to pummel enemy forces passing through that strait on the way to Benkoenen) behind Level 6 forts. I certainly don't expect that to stop him but it should hurt him and, if he comes in at Oosthaven, he will find me hunker up at Palembang in a suicidal defence which will necessitate him attacking multiple times, with each attack destroying significant portions of the OIL and REFINERY industries there.... and that's the overall goal behind this, crippling the Japanese economy.


In the war today his subs sank a couple of transports on the way to Singers and he launched a few bombing raids in China. Overall though my troops in China are making it to their new defensive positions ( or delay positions ) and are concentrating nicely. So far it looks like, at most, 2 or 3 poorly positions armies which were off the road networks at the start of the game will be surrounded. In effect the vast bulk of the Chinese forces will have been saved and concentrated into a much more defensible line. He can still pound them into dust with his Kwantung artillery but them's the breaks [8D]. The supply situation isn't good so I'm looking at sending another 4 or 5 Chinese Corps into Burma to help ease the supply requirements in China.



bklooste -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/18/2010 12:48:30 PM)


Thanks for your reply .

quote:

I don't care about advantage. My goal is to get something fair to both sides. I think this is.


Just trying to see why he doesnt think this is fair..

quote:


you can't get much out.

Really? No, I think I should be able to evacuate almost every soldier and plane from Java into Sumatra. I have PBYs and Do-24s as well as some DC2s and DC3s in the area. I have the capability of flying roughly 600 to 800 men per day into Sumatra. At present I am using the PBY-4s to fly in the far-lying garrisons ( Menado etc ) while the PBY-5s focus on flying in troops from Tarakan, Balikpapan, Kuching and the DC2s and DC3s focus on flying in nearby troops.


Must try that by air thought most of it was restricted. Why cant you pull it out to Burma then ? Or is that why you need a ADBA unit there ?

quote:


I'm stripping the small forces out of bases like Miri, Kuching, Balikpapan etc as those bases can't hope to stand against the Japanese invasion TFs and so it is better to consolidate their forces in bases which CAN benefit from the extra troops.


Right now I have over 40,000 troops in Sumatra, including over 300 Aviation support points, just under 200 engineers and have Level 3 forts at Palembang and Level 2 forts at Oosthaven.

As KB has evacuated the area to replenish I have decided to send in about a half-dozen transports to Singapore to pull out the first of the combat units there assigned to III Indian Corps. I expect Mike will try to stop me so I've sent 2 AVG units and a few Buffalo squadrons in to help out. Hopefully that will negatively impact his air raids.

I have also decided that I am going to try to get Palembang up to just over 100,000 tons of supplies and to that aim I am creating a supply convoy in India which is going to try to bring 60,000 tons+ into Oosthaven. The goal here is to get enough supplies to allow rapid rebuilding of forces.... I also think that if I get 100,000 tons of supplies I might be able to disband some of the small Dutch units I save into the pool and allow their troops to go into more rapid rebuilding of the larger Dutch units.


The small units do have the advantage of soaking up his air attacks.

Are you thinking about a higher fort level for Palembang ? Is it worth the supplies ?

quote:


In short, if he doesn't hit Java by mid-January I will have all of the Dutch troops evacuated ( except for whatever can't be air-transported ). Obviously though I mightn't focus just on the Dutch until mid-January. I will probably fly out a few UK Base Forces and portions of the Commonwealth defenders of Singapore at the same time.

This will allow me to get close to or reach my target of 800 AV per base ( oosthaven and Palembang.... Benkoenen will get a lot less as it is less likely to be invaded --- my understanding is that since I hold Oosthaven it would function as a strait and allow my CD guns to pummel enemy forces passing through that strait on the way to Benkoenen) behind Level 6 forts. I certainly don't expect that to stop him but it should hurt him and, if he comes in at Oosthaven, he will find me hunker up at Palembang in a suicidal defence which will necessitate him attacking multiple times, with each attack destroying significant portions of the OIL and REFINERY industries there.... and that's the overall goal behind this, crippling the Japanese economy.


If your removing everythign can you move and CDs to Miri and other bases you are not going to hold him long in Java and he is not going to land at Batavia /Surabayo so the guns tehre are almost useless.

Its great your able to do this under the nose of KB well worth the losses. When invading Sumatra i normally invade Medan and use paratroopers at the smaller places. Are you giving him Medan ( the roads between North and the SOuth are terrible).? With so many assets you may be able to base some 4E there and do strategic bombing on Miri , Tarakan and Balikpan . You probably wont do much /any damage but it may scare him and cause him to put some assets their.

Also for the final defence rather than comminting your cariers to the battle why not just refit your air groups with less experienced pilots and less usefull planes and put them to land . When its all over put them back on your CVs with experienced pilots and better/new planes. SHould give him a big surprise when those carriers visiti somewhere soon a few weeks later with decent air groups.

quote:


In the war today his subs sank a couple of transports on the way to Singers and he launched a few bombing raids in China. Overall though my troops in China are making it to their new defensive positions ( or delay positions ) and are concentrating nicely. So far it looks like, at most, 2 or 3 poorly positions armies which were off the road networks at the start of the game will be surrounded. In effect the vast bulk of the Chinese forces will have been saved and concentrated into a much more defensible line. He can still pound them into dust with his Kwantung artillery but them's the breaks [8D]. The supply situation isn't good so I'm looking at sending another 4 or 5 Chinese Corps into Burma to help ease the supply requirements in China.


What is happening at Ichang are you going to be like the other allied playes be sucked in by the prep values and waste all your supplies , lots of troops lost taking a not very important base from the Japanese for a few months ? Im most interested in your tactics in China as i think China in most AARs is played very sub standard.



Nemo121 -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/18/2010 2:12:34 PM)

Palembang makes 1,000 tons of supplies per day. Supplies aren't a problem at all. One of the reasons I chose southern Sumatra is that once the enemy cut it off completely from naval resupply ( as they will ) I will need to be able to maintain a defensive position for some time. The supply generation allows me to do this. 30,000 tons of supply per month buys a lot of AAA and artillery shells.

So, what fort level will I aim for? The maximum fort levels possible. I believe that's Level 9 forts for Palembang and Level 6 forts for Oosthaven.

you're not going to hold him long in Borneo/Java

No, but look at most AARs. Borneo and Java are death traps. Borneo features multiple isolated bases not a single one of which can withstand a sub-regimental invasion backed by long-range G3/4Ms on ground attack. So, why waste 50 AV per base when evacuating them from 5 bases gives you 250 AV in a concentrated group?

The mathematics is that he can use a single Regiment to take each of the 5 main Borneon region bases and kill all of my troops without significant losses to that regiment in a period of time not exceeding 3 weeks should he so wish. 250 AV added to significant defences + preparation in a concentrated area will necessitate him committing a much larger force ( at least a division+ ) for a period of less than 3 weeks. Add in the transport times etc and the fact that the Japanese can far more easily afford to divert a regiment for 3 weeks than a division for 2 and you see why this whole idea of "delaying" him in Borneo/Java is really illusory and strategically poor.

Looked at another way... If it takes him 2 days to ship to a base and another day to unload and another day to attack it takes an average of 4 days to take an undefended base. If I defend the base with 40 or so AV it will only cost him an extra day of unloading as he will need to wait till the entire regiment is ashore before attacking. End result, 50 AV buy me an additional day vs the IJA when compared with utterly abandoning the base. He can't afford to assume they are ever totally undefended as sometimes I wouldn't abandon and would, instead, reinforce, in order to catch him off guard and drive a regiment into the sea.

Anyways, with 5 large bases to take abandoning them all MIGHT cost me 5 days but will gain me 250 AV. That's a no-brainer.



Medan
He who tries to hold everything holds nothing. B17s can fly into Ceylon etc from Southern Sumatra so why not just base those B-17s in southern Java?

Cons: I lose Medan... It has only 60 AV so any time he wants it he can take it with a combat regiment backed by light bombers flying from Malaysia.

Pros:
It gives me another 60 AV with which to defend Southern Sumatra.
Allowing the Japanese to capture it while I hold Southern Sumatra will allow me to bomb it with B-17s from Southern Sumatra.
It gives me more engineers and aviation support for Southern Sumatra - which is what will help me there.
A regiment taking Medan will be a regiment which isn't participating in the fight for Southern Sumatra. I should encourage such misallocation of resources.

If Mike is good and/or cautious he will not take Medan until such time as he has taken Southern Sumatra. Since that's my strategic appreciation of what would benefit him most the next question becomes ---- After he takes Southern Sumatra will I be able to defend Medan? A: Absolutely not, he'll need 2000 AV+ to take Southern Sumatra and he'll only need to divert 100 AV to take Medan so once he takes Southern Sumatra Medan will fall as soon as his transports can bring troops there.

That thinking leads me to conclude that the 60 AV at Medan will help more at Oosthaven ( behind Level 6 forts ) than at Medan behind Level 1 or 2 forts and under the thumb of Japanese aviation.

Lastly, if he DOES take Medan early then I can turn that to my advantage too by bombing the OIL there and tieing down a fighter unit defending it. Win/win. Also, why use Medan to bomb OIL bases in southern Borneo when Southern Sumatra is significantly closer to those bases?


Also for the final defence rather than comminting your cariers to the battle
I don't recall ever saying that I would do this. Your logic escapes me.

As to your plan re: surprising him a few weeks later.... No I doubt it would. It is an obvious and common gambit and so putting the fighters and planes ashore to fight onshore to increase their experience level before flying them back to CVs and launching a raid somewhere won't be a surprise. It doesn't mean it is a bad idea but I don't think it'll be a surprise. No, instead I think I'll do something a bit more subtle with them.


Ichang
Capturing something which serves no strategic purpose and is, in itself, a trap for the Chinese would be a case of using the initiative to do exactly that which my opponent wants me to do and that which is entirely in my own worst interests. I certainly make mistakes but, hopefully, those mistakes occur because of insufficient intel etc. Ichang is a situation which is obvious from even a cursory look at the map. No, I have 4 Chinese LCUs there and am bombarding. I will launch an attack also purely in the interests of continuing to show Mike what he wants to see. If the attack succeeds I will have to make a show of following his forces and excitedly thinking I've gotten a gap in his front, along with some later comments about how much that trail hex south-west of Ichang is slowing the committment of my reserves and how this means his reserves will get to Sinyang and Hankow more quickly.

Obviously though it'll only be a charade to cover further retrograde movement of my own troops which are currently concentrating nicely around Yenan, Sian and Ankang in the north and Changsha etc in the south. These aren't final positions, merely initial defensive positions designed to get the enemy to deploy for combat and take all the time necessary to manoeuvre his flanking forces into position etc... at which time I'll run away to the real defensive line, having just bought myself another fortnight.

Generally in China I'm going to try to bring out 2 full Chinese Armies with a view to lessening the supply strain IN China and allowing what remains to be properly supplied and rebuilt. I plan to commit the artillery park, en masse in the south and see if I can't hurt him by bombarding his troops there. I have most troops in the south and so if I can hurt one prong of his advance I may consider rupturing his front there. Mostly though I am picking good defensive terrain and trying to minimise supply requirements such that I can rebuild the Chinese, let them survive in place and build experience. As time passes I'll thin the front as my units recover, form a strategic reserve and unleash it at a time and place of my choosing.... if all goes well.


Oh, amusingly enough I managed a surface intercept of KB as it was heading back to replenish. Britain lost a DD but I confirmed the makeup of KB and that nothing had split off for independent raiding ( a useful bit of intel which is allowing me to send more ships to Singapore and put Force Z into repair mode).

Zero losses are now confirmed to be over 100. That's got to be a serious dent in Zero numbers. I know he has more replacements than I but I still feel good that in A2A combat my P-40s under the most adverse of conditions are achieving a kill rate of roughly 0.9 Zeroes : 1 P40. If you isolate the P40Es then it is pretty much 1:1.



Q-Ball -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/18/2010 3:27:32 PM)

I think consolidating the Dutch garrisons makes sense. The downside to bringing in fresh troops like 18 UK Div. is that they are then lost, but the Dutch are dead anyway. May as well get your money's worth. In general, it's a good idea to move troops around to change what the Japanese "know".

If you have time, don't forget the Barisan Regt on Pamakasan. It's a big unit, and completely wasted where it is.

Landing forces at Legaspi is a mistake for Japan. There is no reason to do so. Land everyone at Altimonoan or somewhere that is a quicker walk to Manila.

I think you're over-optimistic though on the forts you can put up. I think you'll find you'll top out at level 4 max, even if you get engineers from Singapore.

I would also have angst if you are sacrificing 18 UK Division. I see the point, but one of the limiting factors later in the game is a lack of ground units for the Allies, so disposing of a big one you have to think twice about. Even if you save a cadre, there aren't enough British squads to rebuild it. No harm on the Dutch or Malaya Army forces, they are dead anyway.






Canoerebel -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/18/2010 4:05:20 PM)

Q-Ball is right about forst.  Usually, it takes no time to buid two forts, moderate time to build three, a heck of a long time to build four, and forever to bulid beyond that.



Nemo121 -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/18/2010 4:37:47 PM)

Forts,
Aye, it is possible that I'll hit Level 3 and find the remaining forts take a lot longer. My standard response to that is in sha'Allah. I'll do what I can to turn things in my favour ( flying in engineers etc ) and after that it is in the hands of the dice gods. I'm not responsible for the dice gods, just for doing the best I can with what I have.

Barisan Regiment: Aye, I've already lifted about half of that Regiment... a force utterly wasted where it was.


As far as 18th UK Division goes... Well it either fights forward or goes to Burma - a waste IMO as there it neither greatly aids India or the Southern Sumatran defence - or sits in India. Sitting in India invites an invasion there to capture south-eastern India, Burma is a bad idea as it can be bypassed by forces invading India or just destroyed in place there ( and its place can be taken by a larger number of Chinese forces which not only can, through sheer weight of numbers, fight as well as it but also materially improve the supply situation in China by being removed from that theatre. So, to me, the choice is to fight forward. Fighting forward means losing the division but at least in fighting forward it will help delay any movements on Burma and India.

In real life I wouldn't know about the LCU reinforcements ( or lack thereof ) in 1944 and so this is the decision I believe I would stick to.

We all draw the realism line in different places... My line is that while I have a fair idea of CVs coming down the pipes and also of aerial support within 30 days of arrival I don't bother looking much beyond that... Different strokes for different folks and all that.

The turn is with Mike so let's see what he does. He captured Kuching two turns ago but hasn't flown fighters to it... I've ordered my bombers to fly against it but for two days they have sat and waited... I managed to get about 3/4 of the combat and support troops out before Kuching fell.



Q-Ball -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/18/2010 5:33:16 PM)

I see the point, but I think there is a third choice between wasting 18th UK in Burma or expending in Sumatra: Using for Amphib landings later, either in DEI, or SW Pacific.

Many of the British divisions are restricted, including most of the Indian Army. They can be bought, but you have alot of demands on your PPs. 18th isn't restricted, which makes it more valuable. There is no reason you can't send the 18th UK division anywhere. I used 2nd UK division to land on Soemba in my game v. Cuttlefish, and real good chance it won't see India ever again. Agree sending to Burma is a waste, Burma is best left to the Japanese.

As far as creating delay to prevent an invasion of India, unless he is landing to cut your troops off in Assam/Burma, I would welcome an Indian invasion. India to Japan is like Russia to Germany; he can pick up alot of territory, but can't destroy you. So what? There isn't even much Oil there, which is the only thing useful to Japan, and even then, they will burn a point of fuel for every 3 point of Oil lifted out. With the garrison requirements and accelerated reinforcements, a conquest of India is impossible in AE. The restricted Indian Div. you get are plenty, particularly if you decide to abandon Burma and pull out those 2 Divisions intact. (17 Ind, and 1 Burma)

Anyway, I would probably defend Benkolen with much less than Oosthaven; the terrain is much better, and he is more likely to try the closer landing hex, which is Oosthaven. I would probably focus the best units at Oosthaven, where the clear terrain is a problem for you.






Nemo121 -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/19/2010 1:13:42 PM)

Well, a couple of you have asked about China so here you go.

The yellow line shows the initial defensive line I plan to hold to check the weight of his attacks and allow the redeployment of my reserves as I fall back to the main line of resistance ( the red line ) so that each of my defensive positions is appropriately weighted.

Ichang has served its purpose in drawing Japanese reinforcements along a dead-end axis of advance with two major river lines to cross. So far I've drawn another IJA division and a Tank Regiment into Ichang with at least 2 more units on the way ( and probably more as the road does appear rather full of IJA formations ). Now that the Japanese are fully committed I'm beginning my withdrawal behind the next river line where an additional 1,000+ AV of Chinese troops are waiting.

I'm holding at Changsha but it is really only to ensure that Mike has to manoeuvre for a flanking attack/take casualties attriting the Chinese at Changsha and knocking down their forts. My plan is to let him manoeuvre around or attrit the forts ( which should take a couple of weeks ) and then withdraw again into more favourable defensive terrain closer to my sources of supply. I'm abandoning quite a few supply-generating regions to the Japanese but, really, if they want them they can and will take them and there's little point wasting troops staving off the inevitable.

As you can see I'm not a big believer in trying to non-critical regions which can't really be held... far better to allocate resources to hold what's essential. In terms of his main, initial, thrust... I believe he will go for Sian. It is the most obvious choice ( a very bad thing indeed ) and he has all those lovely artillery pieces from Kwantung coming in there. Obviously when I suggested the house rules it was with the expectation that the house rule we agreed would tend to direct the initial thrust into the northern regions --- which are infinitely more easily defended than the much wider southern front. The only possible fly in the ointment is the artillery modelling in the code. If the artillery is still over-modelled then my troops could be obliterated by it. Still, I think the plan is a reasonable one in real life. All AE has to do is model real life appropriately and I should be fine.

[image]local://upfiles/10809/1D16C39ECE99492E85BB907D7D10428F.jpg[/image]



Nemo121 -> RE: Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A) (1/19/2010 5:35:02 PM)

So, time to update for the 25th and 26th December.

Essentially I lost 1 xAP moving into Singapore but have managed to use various naval manoeuvres ( by PT Boats and small DD flotillas ) around the Phillipines to draw KB East. This has given me the opportunity to move significant transport forces into Singapore and with another 2 days grace I should be able to get most of the Indian forces ( 1 Division + 2 Bdes ) sealifted out of Singapore and ensconsed at Palembang. I've already moved out 1 Bde, 1 Bn, 2 AAA units, the 2 Air HQs, a couple of artillery units and a few bits and pieces of engineers.

Mike must be really worried about the situation north of Legaspi as I am getting signals intel of multiple enemy regiments being redeployed to Legaspi by sea and he has targetted pretty much every Betty and Nell ( over 100 ) on the ground units there. On the 26th he even launched an alpha strike from KB against those ground troops. Over 160 strike aircraft flew against my ground troops. They did a real number on them but that's fine. Winning the ground battle here isn't all that important, banging the Japanese LCUs up, causing disruption to his plans and keeping the aerial forces which could butcher all those transports occupied elsewhere is the most important thing.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

25th December

Ground combat at 81,80

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 15712 troops, 225 guns, 229 vehicles, Assault Value = 737

Defending force 11063 troops, 118 guns, 41 vehicles, Assault Value = 350

Allied adjusted assault: 389

Japanese adjusted defense: 220

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: leaders(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1832 casualties reported
Squads: 36 destroyed, 88 disabled
Non Combat: 40 destroyed, 49 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 10 disabled
Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 59 (59 destroyed, 0 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
254 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 58 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 57 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Vehicles lost 8 (0 destroyed, 8 disabled)


Assaulting units:
41st PA Infantry Division
51st PA Infantry Division
57th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team
1st/45th PS Inf Battalion
3rd/45th PS Inf Battalion
31st Infantry Regiment
1st PA Constabulary Regiment
194th Tank Battalion
192nd Tank Battalion
2nd PA Constabulary Regiment

Defending units:
16th Recon Regiment
20th Infantry Regiment
16th Engineer Regiment
9th Infantry Regiment
Kimura Det

It would appear that tank Bns really do deliver quite a hammering. The Phillipine infantry did ok but the Tank Battalions appear to have done an outsized portion of the killing. Obviously Mike could see that on the 26th there was a good chance his force would be defeated so he committed everything he had to the battle --- and away from the far more critical point around Singapore.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
26th December. For some reason in spite of the fact that I had 40,000 tons of supplies in Manilla ( and had all my bases down to minimal supply requirements ) none of the supplies went to my combat troops. Instead they all got sucked into Clark Field. The end result was that my attack went in with insufficient supplies and had a massive drop in AV. Notwithstanding this I think they still did some excellent work and I'm going to keep attacking to keep the diversion going.

Has anyone got any idea why I can't send supplies south of Manilla? Is the PWHEX file broken or something?

Ground combat at 81,80

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 14392 troops, 225 guns, 226 vehicles, Assault Value = 621

Defending force 8820 troops, 118 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 232

Allied adjusted assault: 44

Japanese adjusted defense: 166

Allied assault odds: 1 to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: experience(-)
Attacker: disruption(-), supply(-)

Japanese ground losses:
1570 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 62 disabled
Non Combat: 13 destroyed, 44 disabled
Engineers: 10 destroyed, 8 disabled


Allied ground losses:
437 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 24 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 35 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 11 (1 destroyed, 10 disabled)


Assaulting units:
1st/45th PS Inf Battalion
31st Infantry Regiment
57th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team
192nd Tank Battalion
194th Tank Battalion
1st PA Constabulary Regiment
51st PA Infantry Division
41st PA Infantry Division
3rd/45th PS Inf Battalion
2nd PA Constabulary Regiment

Defending units:
16th Engineer Regiment
20th Infantry Regiment
16th Recon Regiment
9th Infantry Regiment
Kimura Det

So, over 2 days that's 41 IJA combat squads destroyed and another 140 disabled. Given an initial combat squad strength of 360 or so squads I think that makes their position tenuous indeed. In the face of KB's massive strikes I won't be able to push these troops back but while KB is doing this it won't be doing the much more strategically vital job of preventing my evacuation of Malaysian forces into Palembang.


In other news I think something must be going wrong with his Zero pilots... or else he just upgraded a low quality squadron and sent it into the air. I sent 2 AVG squadrons and about 40 Buffaloes into the air over Singapore to cover the evacuations and over the course of two days downed 9 Zeroes at the cost of 2 AVG planes and 2 Buffaloes.

[image]local://upfiles/10809/445B3ED3175542BBA2FB46E59D30402F.jpg[/image]



Nemo121 -> Encirclement is a state of mind... (1/20/2010 12:29:25 PM)

Well, today was an interesting day. The Phillipine army launched two significant assaults. The assault in the south near Naga faltered in the face of over 200 land-based and naval close support sorties but notwithstanding this the attack still managed to inflict 50% more casualties than it suffered. Japanese reinforcements are pouring into Naga so I will begin to step the attacks back here and sorting my forces out for a retreat back towards Manilla.

In the north the IJA moved into Baguio and the base north of Clark Field yesterday. I had intentionally left both of those bases empty and had estimated their rate of movement. Fortunately I guessed right and Phillipine army forces from both Clark Field and Manilla moved into Baguio yesterday in perfect synchrony. Today they attacked and threw a Japanese force, including several invaluable heavy bombardment Bns, back towards their landing zones. Tomorrow I will split the Phillipine army again and go after the Japanese to the north of Clark Field.

Mike tells me that he is very surprised at my fight south of Manilla as he "expected you to sit in Manilla and see how long you could hold out". I find it surprising that he seemed to believe that I would sit back and not look for opportunities to hurt and delay him on the way.

While KB itself is taken up bombing the hell out of the Phillipine ground forces mini-KB has shown up off Singapore to try to interdict the Allied withdrawal. Unfortunately for mini-KB things didn't go too well for it. Even my Buffalo squadrons managed to get 3 or 4 kills. In total it looks like Allied fighters downed about 6 Zeroes and a dozen Kates over Singapore today in return for a single xAP torpedoed. So, all in all the diversion continues apace and continues to do well.

December 27th

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Naga at 81,81, Range 12,000 Yards

Basically I sacrificed Peary in order to force the Japanese shipping at Naga to suspend unloading and withdraw. I've done what I can north of Naga and have reduced the IJA forces there from an AV of 350 to just 160 today. Time to pull back before new regiments flood the area and, combined with KB, overwhelm me.

Japanese Ships
CL Natori, Shell hits 1
DD Natsugumo, Shell hits 1
DD Yudachi
xAK Oigawa Maru
xAK Satsuma Maru
xAK Tofuku Maru
xAK Unkai Maru #6, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
DD Peary, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk



Allied Ships Reported to be Approaching!
Japanese TF suspends unloading operations and begins to get underway
Allied Ships Reported to be Approaching!
Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 64% moonlight: 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 12,000 yards
Allies open fire on surprised Japanese ships at 12,000 yards
CL Natori collides with xAK Unkai Maru #6 at 81 , 81


One xAKl also got torpedoed by IJN submarines near Singers.


A sample of the airstrikes going in against the Phillipine army north of Naga...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 51st PA Infantry Division, at 81,80

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 11 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 10
B5N2 Kate x 123
D3A1 Val x 78



Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 5 damaged
D3A1 Val: 6 damaged


Allied ground losses:
383 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 49 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 32 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 13 (0 destroyed, 13 disabled)
Vehicles lost 9 (1 destroyed, 8 disabled)

Pretty devastating but a damned sight less devastating than a single day of these strikes against all the shipping around Singapore. If I get 2 or 3 more days of freedom around Singapore I'll pull out the Indian Division and 2 Independent Indian Bdes and immediately boost my forces in Southern Sumatra to about 1800 AV all told. That'll be a tough not for Mike to crack, especially as it'll be backed by large numbers of torpedo-capable aircraft.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Cabanatuan (80,76)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 14236 troops, 342 guns, 142 vehicles, Assault Value = 621

Defending force 7901 troops, 55 guns, 141 vehicles, Assault Value = 111

Allied adjusted assault: 403

Japanese adjusted defense: 43

Allied assault odds: 9 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: op mode(-), preparation(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
2482 casualties reported
Squads: 25 destroyed, 38 disabled
Non Combat: 109 destroyed, 64 disabled
Engineers: 23 destroyed, 37 disabled
Guns lost 8 (5 destroyed, 3 disabled)
Vehicles lost 36 (17 destroyed, 19 disabled)
Units retreated 7


Allied ground losses:
803 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 51 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 54 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Guns lost 3 (0 destroyed, 3 disabled)
Vehicles lost 6 (0 destroyed, 6 disabled)


Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
11th PA Infantry Division
91st PA Infantry Division
71st PA Infantry Division
21st PA Infantry Division
3rd/12th PA Inf Battalion
26th PS Cavalry Regiment
88th PS Field Artillery Regiment
Provisional GMC Gp

Defending units:
Tanaka Detachment
3rd Ind. Engineer Regiment
21st Ind. Engineer Regiment
14th Army
15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion

The best news here is that:
a) I hurt an Army HQ, everyone always needs support squads...
b) Those Mortar Units contain 16 x 32cm mortars and another 8 or so 155mm tubes. With 5 guns destroyed and 20% more lost due to auto-retreat I'm hopeful that quite a few of those really large pieces will have been destroyed.
c) Killing engineers is always good. Those guys will drop my forts if they're still alive.
d) This gives him another target for his bombers, lessens the pressure on my guys at Naga a little and should help their orderly retreat into Manilla.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 81,80

Allied Shock attack

Pretty much the last attack for these guys north of Naga... I don't want Mike to amphibiously invade behind me so they'll begin pulling back, recovering a bit of disruption and, if he follows incautiously, can always snap back out and repulse his leading echelon if it loses its timidity.

Attacking force 12733 troops, 201 guns, 221 vehicles, Assault Value = 541

Defending force 7692 troops, 118 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 164

This is important, just two days ago these IJA forces could muster 360 AV. Now they muster only 164. Obviously many of these losses are disablements but every casualty helps in the long run.

I should also note that experience amongst my Phillipine etc troops at Naga has increased markedly since joining battle. Troops which had 20 Exp are now hovering around 40, troops which began with 40 are in the mid-50s.

Allied adjusted assault: 77

Japanese adjusted defense: 104

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
1121 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 58 disabled
Non Combat: 8 destroyed, 33 disabled
Engineers: 10 destroyed, 0 disabled


Allied ground losses:
702 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 32 disabled
Non Combat: 13 destroyed, 40 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Vehicles lost 22 (10 destroyed, 12 disabled)


Assaulting units:
57th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team
194th Tank Battalion
192nd Tank Battalion
51st PA Infantry Division
1st PA Constabulary Regiment
41st PA Infantry Division
1st/45th PS Inf Battalion
31st Infantry Regiment
3rd/45th PS Inf Battalion
2nd PA Constabulary Regiment

Defending units:
9th Infantry Regiment
16th Recon Regiment
20th Infantry Regiment
Kimura Det
16th Engineer Regiment

So, overall the plan's still proceeding well.... the Phillipines is acting as a focus for all his bombers and CVs which could be doing much more valuable work elsewhere, mini-KB has unmasked itself near Singers and promptly lost almost 20 planes and my ground forces have managed to push back a probe north of Manilla. Most importantly it is only 3 more days until the 4th USN CV is ready for action and that will give me 4 CVs with which to steam into harm's way. Initial targets have been chosen and I think they should serve to really discomfit the Japanese. Preparation is lacking but with enough BBs, CAs and CV support I figure I can overcome a lack of preparation.

Anyone want to tender a guess as to where and why?
To help I'll state that I have 6,000 troops on Wake and have built Level 3 forts there. I also have a regiment of troops, multiple AAA, Arty and Engineer units at Adak Island and am developing that as a main fleet base capable of rearming any ship in the fleet, including BBs and CVs. I have a small cruiser force at Rabaul guarding that base against invasion but apart from a small foray against Tarawa and Ocean Island Mike hasn't really made any moves in the south.

In terms of bombers I have a large number of B-17s at Pearl, have been very impressed by their ability to get through to land-based targets in spite of enemy fighter cover and am working on buying every B-17 I can out of restricted commands and flying them to the Phillipines and the bases I plan on capturing next. My goal isn't, necessarily, to hold the bases but mainly to give Mike two major strategic problems at opposite ends of his empire by late January 1942. He can only commit KB to one of these problems. If he commits KB to Sumatra then by the time he turns back to the Pacific I'll have a range of bases in crucial areas ( since I won't stop with the first couple I take ) and threaten strategically vital areas). If he commits KB to the Pacific then he'll stop me cold but it'll cost him a lot of ships and troops in Sumatra as his LRCAP of amphibious TFs gets overwhelmed and torpedo-carrying Vildebeest, Swordfish and PBY-5s come roaring in.


Alternately if you think I'm ueber-crazy to even contemplate a full-on offensive in mid-January 1942 then feel free to respond also. I may not change my mind --- I do, after all, play only for the challenge of putting together risky operations on shoestrings etc and not to win ---- but that kind of interesting strategic discussion is the reason I AAR.




On a side note:
Aeral war: I've been keeping a close eye on how the AVG and Buffaloes have been doing vs the Zeroes. Basically with the high altitude settings almost every Allied attack is initiated with a bounce. My poor pilot experience means very few of these bounces actually connect with the Zeroes and when they do they mostly result in damaged Zeroes instead of destroyed Zeroes. However if you have 30 planes ( half P-40s, half Buffaloes ) bouncing 15 Zeroes and 1 in 5 bounces achieves a damage while one in 30 achieves a kill you have just damaged 6 Zeroes and destroyed 1 at pretty much no cost to yourself. That leaves 8 Zeroes to tangle with your fighters and that pretty much guarantees you'll burn your way through those escorts and get at the bombers as they just won't have the numbers to stop you.

When the Hurricane II enters action I am expecting its multiple 0.303 Mgs to turn a significant number of these damages into kills.

High altitude is the way to go guys.... 30,000+ for most airframes vs Zero sweeps and maybe 25,000 or so vs bombers as you want to be sure to be well above the Zeroes and most people won't send in level bombers above 20,000 feet due to ineffectiveness. What you lose in number of passes ( as it takes a long time to get down to the level of the bombers ) you more than make up for in surviving airframes and downed Zeroes... Enemy Zero losses now surpass 160. Even accounting for FOW I'd say more than 120 have been downed. That's a lot of top-class IJN aviators which he'll find hard to replace dead and AVG and the Hurricanes etc are only beginning to get organised and properly into the fight.




modrow -> RE: Encirclement is a state of mind... (1/20/2010 8:47:02 PM)

Nemo,

quote:


Alternately if you think I'm ueber-crazy to even contemplate a full-on offensive in mid-January 1942 then feel free to respond also. I may not change my mind --- I do, after all, play only for the challenge of putting together risky operations on shoestrings etc and not to win ---- but that kind of interesting strategic discussion is the reason I AAR.


shopping for a Semmelweis reflex ? [8D]

Hartwig



Grollub -> RE: Encirclement is a state of mind... (1/20/2010 9:56:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121
Most importantly it is only 3 more days until the 4th USN CV is ready for action and that will give me 4 CVs with which to steam into harm's way. Initial targets have been chosen and I think they should serve to really discomfit the Japanese. Preparation is lacking but with enough BBs, CAs and CV support I figure I can overcome a lack of preparation.

Anyone want to tender a guess as to where and why?

To help I'll state that I have 6,000 troops on Wake and have built Level 3 forts there. I also have a regiment of troops, multiple AAA, Arty and Engineer units at Adak Island and am developing that as a main fleet base capable of rearming any ship in the fleet, including BBs and CVs. I have a small cruiser force at Rabaul guarding that base against invasion but apart from a small foray against Tarawa and Ocean Island Mike hasn't really made any moves in the south.



Given the CV dispositions that you've told us and the hint of Wake, my guess is that you're going for Roi-Namur.

The initial garrison (and forts) there are very weak. Also, its quite close to Wake and if you have parked AO's/AE's there you can present a credible threat which he has to deal with before carrying on with the ops he really wants to do. This would be a neat example of snatching the initiative. Especially if you have planned to give him problems elsewhere while he's dealing with the recapture of R-N.



Nemo121 -> RE: Encirclement is a state of mind... (1/20/2010 10:03:04 PM)

Ah that raises the question of whether one has to encourage a Semmelweis reflex or not. I would argue that the Semmelweis reflex is an inherent part of humanity and arises unbidden in any group and in most individuals. An excellent and reasonably obscure reference though which tickles my funny bone. As such you get one free game-related question I'll answer 100% honestly and with complete thoroughness ( particularly as I'm on a bit of a loose end tonight... and more particularly because such an abstruse reference which so adroitly conveys the right meaning deserves a reward.) [8D].

Anything at all in as much detail as you wish...


As to whether I was searching for a Semmelweis reflex... No not really, I was just hoping to foster discussion in addition to which one always has to keep in mind that I might be missing very important information and passing up hugely promising alternatives through ignorance. I think my planning is solid but I'm not stupid enough to assume it is so solid that it couldn't benefit from a sceptical re-examination.



Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI
1.28125